In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On this topic did anyone else see the NHK broadcast a few months back
about a digital version of binaural recording that alters the phase
frequency response of the high end of close miked material to extend the
stereo sound stage vertically. The trick works by tweaking the frequency
phase relationship to match what the ear expects from a wave incident at
a given angle.

Not new, IIRC. I remember hearing a binaural recording of a man being
shaved and having a haircut. Could just about feel the comb on the head.

--
*I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 16/05/2011 13:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Martin wrote:
On this topic did anyone else see the NHK broadcast a few months back
about a digital version of binaural recording that alters the phase
frequency response of the high end of close miked material to extend the
stereo sound stage vertically. The trick works by tweaking the frequency
phase relationship to match what the ear expects from a wave incident at
a given angle.

Not new, IIRC. I remember hearing a binaural recording of a man being
shaved and having a haircut. Could just about feel the comb on the head.

What was new was that they could take close miked material and use
digital processing to move it around the binaural sound stage at will.

The old way involved microphones inside a headlike dummy with ears.

Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
On 16/05/2011 13:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In ,
Martin wrote:
On this topic did anyone else see the NHK broadcast a few months back
about a digital version of binaural recording that alters the phase
frequency response of the high end of close miked material to extend
the stereo sound stage vertically. The trick works by tweaking the
frequency phase relationship to match what the ear expects from a
wave incident at a given angle.

Not new, IIRC. I remember hearing a binaural recording of a man being
shaved and having a haircut. Could just about feel the comb on the
head.

What was new was that they could take close miked material and use
digital processing to move it around the binaural sound stage at will.

Right.

The old way involved microphones inside a headlike dummy with ears.

Seems to have gone out of fashion. R4 used to have the odd play recorded
dummy head - but not recently.

--
*Gun Control: Use both hands.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Ian Jackson"
wrote in message ...

I find that reversing the phase of one of the headphones produces
a much wider audio image, and is generally much easier to listen
to. I can only hope that the purists will forgive me.

The late J Gordon Holt described the effect (for him) as cleaning out
everything inside his end.

How bothered you are by it depends on how sensitive you are to "phasiness".

There is nothing wrong with listening to mono with reverse polarity. But if
you listen to stereo that way -- you will, indeed, have the purists down on
you.

"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...
"Ian Jackson"

I find that reversing the phase of one of the headphones produces
a much wider audio image, and is generally much easier to listen to.
I can only hope that the purists will forgive me.

** All you have to do is un-link the common ground -- it leaves the
two transducers in series and out of phase.

If the signal is mono, you'll have pretty much nothing left to listen to. If
it's stereo, the mono components will be cancelled, the L- and R-only
components retained, with components in-between subjected to varying degrees
of attenuation.

And, yes, Phil, whether or not you like it, what I've just said is 100%
correct.

"Patrick" wrote in message
...
I have some vinatge headphones (Sennheiser HD424) and want to attach a new
plug.

Which color wires are the positive ones?

The colors in one of the leads are red & blue and in the other lead black
&
yellow. (No wire is used as screening - there's just two wires in each
lead.)


You've certainly set the cat amongst the pidgeons.
It's getting right leary in here. So a search topic for you:
How do barn owls locate prey just by listening?

Once you've done a search on that relevant subject:
Spatial hearing (a collection of files to enjoy)
https://mustelid.physiol.ox.ac.uk/dr...patial_hearing

Acoustic Holography (A bit of engineering)
http://www.lmsintl.com/acoustic-holography

Now some more subjects for you to type into the
search engine of your choice:

Psychoacoustics
Cochlear nuclei
Neural action potentials.
Auditory masking
Missing fundamental
Hypersonic effect
Diana Deutsch
Dr. Daniel J. Levitin
Sound localization by the human auditory system
Lateral information
Interaural time differences
Phase delays
Group delays
Parallel processing pathways in the brain
Axons of the auditory nerve

I'll check back in a week or so.
PS. Ever heard of Q-Sound?

On 05/14/2011 05:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Tim Wescott"

"If the click seems to come from right inside your head - game over".

What more do you need? Phil's given you a test to see if the phasing is
correct, can you not figure it out, or what to do if the click seems to
come from your right or your left?


** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on both
sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

The OP demonstrates his a monumental ignorance of headphones, hi-fi sound,
usenet etiquette and common sense.

Only tangentially related, and mostly useless:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion receivers (i.e., mix
down to baseband). They're simple, hence little, and they work pretty
well. Their biggest problem is that they have no audio image rejection
at all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear a signal at
7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

You can get around this by making a so-called "phasing" receiver
(basically an image-reject downconverter, but ham radio has its own
terminology), but then you're back to something complex.

If you build an I/Q downconverter, and amplify each channel to a
headphone channel, then apparently you get a spatial perception of the
tones -- upper side tones sound like they're coming from a different
point in space than lower side tones, and (presumably due to the phase
shift in the amplifiers, I don't know) high and low tones do as well.
It's claimed that this makes it easier to use for morse code reception.

I've always thought that was interesting, but haven't tried it.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On May 16, 2:38*pm, "FedUpLurker" wrote:
"Patrick" wrote in message

...

I have some vinatge headphones (Sennheiser HD424) and want to attach a new
plug.

Which color wires are the positive ones?

The colors in one of the leads are red & blue and in the other lead black
&
yellow. *(No wire is used as screening - there's just two wires in each
lead.)

You've certainly set the cat amongst the pidgeons.
It's getting right leary in here. So a search topic for you:
How do barn owls locate prey just by listening?

Once you've done a search on that relevant subject:
Spatial hearing (a collection of files to enjoy)https://mustelid.physiol.ox.ac.uk/dr...patial_hearing

Acoustic Holography (A bit of engineering)http://www.lmsintl.com/acoustic-holography

Now some more subjects for you to type into the
search engine of your choice:

Psychoacoustics
Cochlear nuclei
Neural action potentials.
Auditory masking
Missing fundamental
Hypersonic effect
Diana Deutsch
Dr. Daniel J. Levitin
Sound localization by the human auditory system
Lateral information
Interaural time differences
Phase delays
Group delays
Parallel processing pathways in the brain
Axons of the auditory nerve

I'll check back in a week or so.
PS. Ever heard of Q-Sound?

Learn a bit about Kemar Manikin he
http://www.eartunes.com/if/audiology-inf-107.shtml

Tim Wescott wrote:
On 05/14/2011 05:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Tim Wescott"

"If the click seems to come from right inside your head - game over".

What more do you need? Phil's given you a test to see if the phasing is
correct, can you not figure it out, or what to do if the click seems to
come from your right or your left?

** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on
both sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

The OP demonstrates his a monumental ignorance of headphones, hi-fi
sound, usenet etiquette and common sense.

Only tangentially related, and mostly useless:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion receivers (i.e., mix
down to baseband). They're simple, hence little, and they work pretty
well. Their biggest problem is that they have no audio image rejection
at all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear a signal at
7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

That's the _second_ biggest problem - the biggest is that they're an
unlicensed transmitter.

Hope This Helps!
Rich

"Rich Grise"
Tim Wescott wrote:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion receivers (i.e., mix
down to baseband). They're simple, hence little, and they work pretty
well. Their biggest problem is that they have no audio image rejection
at all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear a signal at
7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

That's the _second_ biggest problem - the biggest is that they're an
unlicensed transmitter.


** Giant HUH ??

Ham radio operators are * licensed * uses of the band from 7MHz to 7.3
Hz - aka the 40 metre band.

In an case, spurious emissions from a flea powered local oscillator is not a
transmitter requiring a licence.

Wot a jerkoff.


...... Phil

On 5/16/2011 10:17 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On 05/14/2011 05:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Tim Wescott"

"If the click seems to come from right inside your head - game over".

What more do you need? Phil's given you a test to see if the phasing is
correct, can you not figure it out, or what to do if the click seems to
come from your right or your left?

** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on
both sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

The OP demonstrates his a monumental ignorance of headphones, hi-fi
sound, usenet etiquette and common sense.

Only tangentially related, and mostly useless:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion receivers (i.e., mix
down to baseband). They're simple, hence little, and they work pretty
well. Their biggest problem is that they have no audio image rejection
at all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear a signal at
7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

That's the _second_ biggest problem - the biggest is that they're an
unlicensed transmitter.

Hope This Helps!
Rich


No, it doesn't help and is misleading, Rich. 7040kHz is an amateur
frequency. So, it is legal for "Amateur radio folks" as Tim indicated.

John

In message , John KD5YI
writes
On 5/16/2011 10:17 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On 05/14/2011 05:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Tim Wescott"

"If the click seems to come from right inside your head - game over".

What more do you need? Phil's given you a test to see if the phasing is
correct, can you not figure it out, or what to do if the click seems to
come from your right or your left?

** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on
both sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

The OP demonstrates his a monumental ignorance of headphones, hi-fi
sound, usenet etiquette and common sense.

Only tangentially related, and mostly useless:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion receivers (i.e., mix
down to baseband). They're simple, hence little, and they work pretty
well. Their biggest problem is that they have no audio image rejection
at all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear a signal at
7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

That's the _second_ biggest problem - the biggest is that they're an
unlicensed transmitter.

Hope This Helps!
Rich


No, it doesn't help and is misleading, Rich. 7040kHz is an amateur
frequency. So, it is legal for "Amateur radio folks" as Tim indicated.

Even licensed radio amateurs don't want the local oscillator of a
direct-conversion receiver to radiated. The design of the receiver
usually ensures that any radiation is negligible.

Many people don't realise that any superheterodyne receiver is
potentially capable of radiating. Just try listening to the same station
on two cheap FM receivers in the same room, and you'll probably see what
I mean.
--
Ian

In message nc, Paul
Hovnanian P.E. writes
Patrick wrote:

I have some vinatge headphones (Sennheiser HD424) and want to attach a new
plug.

Which color wires are the positive ones?

The colors in one of the leads are red & blue and in the other lead black
&
yellow. (No wire is used as screening - there's just two wires in each
lead.)

If they are the standard voice coil types, put them in front of a stereo
speaker and drive the amp with a sine wave. The headphone 'speakers' will
act as microphones. Use an oscilloscope on the pairs of leads to determine
phasing.

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but
effective) way of determining the phasing?
--
Ian

On Mon, 16 May 2011 11:46:54 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On this topic did anyone else see the NHK broadcast a few months back
about a digital version of binaural recording that alters the phase
frequency response of the high end of close miked material to extend the
stereo sound stage vertically. The trick works by tweaking the frequency
phase relationship to match what the ear expects from a wave incident at
a given angle. It just sounded odd on loudspeakers.

Was this some kind of dummy head recording or some kind of ambisonics
(Gerzon) WXYZ recording ?

On Sun, 15 May 2011 10:31:35 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on both
sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

Puking two speakers with front panels against each other is a quite
easy way to check polarity. If the polarity is correct, you will hear
some low frequency sounds emitted from the combination. If the
polarity is wrong, you will hear only mid- and high pitch sounds,
since the low frequency air is moving between the cones of the
speakers.

With headphones, you either get "in head" or unrealistic sound
depending on the phasing of headphones.

Sennheiser did the wiring correctly by keeping all four wires separate
and connected to a 4 pin DIN plug and by adding a 4 pin DIN to 6.35 mm
plug adaptor.

As a kid, I was really ****ed of by the convention of using common
returns in headphones. I was testing frequency diversity reception of
the same broadcast programs on two different shortwave bands with two
receivers. Unfortunately, the other receiver was of AC/DC type with
the full 220 Vac in the chassis. Thus I had to rewire the phones so
that one side could (potentially) siting on 220 Vac, and the other
side sitting close to ground potential.

After this alteration, I had no problems with this arrangement.

No problems, no problems, no problems :-)

On 17/05/2011 10:11, wrote:
On Mon, 16 May 2011 11:46:54 +0100, Martin Brown
wrote:

On this topic did anyone else see the NHK broadcast a few months back
about a digital version of binaural recording that alters the phase
frequency response of the high end of close miked material to extend the
stereo sound stage vertically. The trick works by tweaking the frequency
phase relationship to match what the ear expects from a wave incident at
a given angle. It just sounded odd on loudspeakers.

Was this some kind of dummy head recording or some kind of ambisonics
(Gerzon) WXYZ recording ?

Digital alteration of the phase and amplitude response with frequency
applicable only to sounds with reasonably complex harmonic content.

The demo was a church bell that was made to ring up then down on axis,
left then right as in a ping pong stereo demo and finally at the corners
of a rectangle. It just sounded odd on loudspeakers.

If my memory serves I think they said that sounds coming from above have
slightly more high frequency components and a phase lead. The adjustment
fools the brain into putting the sound where it "belongs".

Regards,
Martin Brown

"Ian Jackson"

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but
effective) way of determining the phasing?


** I got one:

Insert a pin through a hole in the earphone grille and let it rest loosely
the diaphragm.

Use the AA cell test.

One polarity will evict the pin.


..... Phil

In message , Phil Allison
writes

"Ian Jackson"

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but
effective) way of determining the phasing?


** I got one:

Insert a pin through a hole in the earphone grille and let it rest loosely
the diaphragm.

Use the AA cell test.

One polarity will evict the pin.

I reckon that one's certainly for the shortlist for the prize.

Of course, the principle is not new. You can test loudspeakers with a
battery, and watch which way the cone kicks. That would be difficult to
do with headphones, and 'kicking the pin out' overcomes this problem.
--
Ian

"Rich Grise" wrote in message

Tim Wescott wrote:
On 05/14/2011 05:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Tim Wescott"

"If the click seems to come from right inside your
head - game over".

What more do you need? Phil's given you a test to see
if the phasing is correct, can you not figure it out,
or what to do if the click seems to come from your
right or your left?

** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase,
the AA cell click test produces a sound that seems to
be originating outside the head on both sides. Mono
speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical
stereo speakers in a room.

The OP demonstrates his a monumental ignorance of
headphones, hi-fi sound, usenet etiquette and common
sense.

Only tangentially related, and mostly useless:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion
receivers (i.e., mix down to baseband). They're simple,
hence little, and they work pretty well. Their biggest
problem is that they have no audio image rejection at
all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear
a signal at 7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

That's the _second_ biggest problem - the biggest is that
they're an unlicensed transmitter.

Only if badly designed. Ever hear of balanced mixers?

On Tue, 17 May 2011 08:17:49 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but
effective) way of determining the phasing?

Plug in both earphones or speakers with random wiring and play
something in stereo. If it sounds right, you're done. If the
orchestra sounds like a ping pong game, switch polarity on one
earphone or speaker. If you can't tell the difference, replace the
listener and try again. I hate to admit it, but I've done it this way
a few times. I'll accept my price in US dollars.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 May 2011 08:17:49 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but
effective) way of determining the phasing?

Plug in both earphones or speakers with random wiring and play
something in stereo. If it sounds right, you're done. If the
orchestra sounds like a ping pong game, switch polarity on one
earphone or speaker. If you can't tell the difference, replace the
listener and try again. I hate to admit it, but I've done it this way
a few times. I'll accept my price in US dollars.

I'm reminded of a 52-year-old article in "Popular Electronics" about
building your own stereo headphones. After assembling them and putting them
on, you were instructed to phase one driver for the best bass.

Incredible.

wrote:
the full 220 Vac in the chassis. Thus I had to rewire the phones so
that one side could (potentially) siting on 220 Vac, and the other
side sitting close to ground potential.

After this alteration, I had no problems with this arrangement.

No problems, no problems, no problems :-)


Good job the phones were well insulated, otherwise..ZZZT !

;-)

On Sat, 14 May 2011 08:19:58 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
wrote:

Did anyone ever come up with muffs better than the OEM crap for these?

Search Google for "disposable headphone covers". Something like
these:
http://www.scansound.com/headphone-covers.htm (towards bottom of
page). Pack them with something soft (foam, tissue paper, rolled
cloth, old rags, etc) and place them over your headphones.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 17 May 2011 08:27:28 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 14 May 2011 08:19:58 -0700 (PDT), spamtrap1888
wrote:

Did anyone ever come up with muffs better than the OEM crap for these?

Search Google for "disposable headphone covers". Something like
these:
http://www.scansound.com/headphone-covers.htm (towards bottom of
page). Pack them with something soft (foam, tissue paper, rolled
cloth, old rags, etc) and place them over your headphones.

Or, if you're into crochet, you can knit your own:
http://myplasticfreelife.com/2011/04/crochet-your-own-plastic-free-headphone-ear-pads/
http://www.craftbits.com/project/crochet-headphone-covers
http://blog.sewhooked.org/2008/10/29/crochet-headphone-covers-revisisted/
If not, try old socks:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Sockophones-earphone-padding-made-from-socks/

Full disclosu I haven't tried any of the above, but have made some
covers from cloth, elastic, some foam, and with a serger.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 16 May 2011 11:24:40 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:


"Meat Plow"


** This ****WIT troll needs to be kicked off usenet.

Who will help ?

Please make your complaints to
and forward the offensive posts along with full headers.

Have a rotten day Phil.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

On Sun, 15 May 2011 20:28:54 -0400, Jamie wrote:

Meat Plow wrote:

On Sun, 15 May 2011 17:37:16 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:



"William Sommer******"

"Meat Plow"

** This trolling asshole is a narcissistic psychopath.

He knows nothing and understands even less. I want the lunatic jerk
kicked right off usenet. Who will help me ?

If the "lunatic jerk" you're referring to is yourself... I'd say
everyone in
this group.


** Ain't it just amazing !!

If you go after ONE troll, the rest of the ****s come in and gang up
on you.

So you gotta take the WHOLE lot on, all at once.

What a bunch of gutless, fascist pricks they are.


You don't have what it takes to take on me. I rip you apart anytime you
fly off the handle with your vulgar, threatening reply traps.

You are the epitome of the word Troll.




Fighting a battle of wits does not help you much, especially when
your aponent is unarmed!

Jamie

I don't consider this a fight or battle. If it offends you simply ignore
my posts.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

On Mon, 16 May 2011 03:13:29 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

"Meat Plow"

** This ****WIT troll needs to be kicked off usenet.

Who will help ?


No one will lift a finger to help you, Phyllis.

I will. Phil, just forward my posts to
with complete headers. That's really all you can do unless
you plan a trip to Ohio to blow my brains out. Here's some
friendly advise, buy a one way ticket.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

On Tue, 17 May 2011 08:12:37 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 17 May 2011 08:17:49 +0100, Ian Jackson
wrote:

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but
effective) way of determining the phasing?

Plug in both earphones or speakers with random wiring and play something
in stereo. If it sounds right, you're done. If the orchestra sounds
like a ping pong game, switch polarity on one earphone or speaker. If
you can't tell the difference, replace the listener and try again. I
hate to admit it, but I've done it this way a few times. I'll accept my
price in US dollars.

If you can actually see the driver diaphragm hook up a AAA cell to the
leads coming from the drive and watch the motion. No different than
phasing regular speakers.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

On Mon, 16 May 2011 11:26:18 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

"Meat Plow"


** This ****WIT troll needs to be kicked off usenet.

Who will help ?



..... Phil

For the fifth time, send email with headers of my posts
you find offensive to . I'll be happy
to help you get me kicked off Usenet Phil.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

On Tue, 17 May 2011 23:07:00 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

On Mon, 16 May 2011 03:13:29 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

"Meat Plow"

** This ****WIT troll needs to be kicked off usenet.

Who will help ?


No one will lift a finger to help you, Phyllis.

I will. Phil, just forward my posts to
with complete headers. That's really all you can do unless
you plan a trip to Ohio to blow my brains out. Here's some
friendly advise, buy a one way ticket.

---
Why do you want to take a sad song and not make it better?

Phil's not so bad, he just has zero tolerance for bull**** and
responds vehemently when he sees it.

What's wrong with that?

--
JF

"Ian Jackson"
Phil Allison

Is there going to be a prize for suggesting the most obscure (but
effective) way of determining the phasing?


** I got one:

Insert a pin through a hole in the earphone grille and let it rest loosely
the diaphragm.

Use the AA cell test.

One polarity will evict the pin.

I reckon that one's certainly for the shortlist for the prize.

** On reflection - it might be better to use a tooth pick.

A pin may well be attracted by the magnet.


Of course, the principle is not new. You can test loudspeakers with a
battery, and watch which way the cone kicks. That would be difficult to do
with headphones, and 'kicking the pin out' overcomes this problem.


** Interesting fact:

Testing a ( moving coil) driver with a battery establishes a polarity that
is the reverse of the "real" one during normal operation.

The *actual cone motion* in response to alternating current drive (within a
driver's operating band) involves a double integration of the current
ave - hence a 180 degree phase shift.

The same fact also means that a cone reproducing a square wave ( within it's
operating band ) follows a motion very close to that when reproducing a sine
wave at the same fundamental frequency. IOW the third and higher order odd
harmonics of the square wave cause very little actual cone motion.

Bet anything this starts an argument.



.... Phil

"John Fields"


** Do you know what " meat plow " refers to ?




..... Phil

On Wed, 18 May 2011 20:30:08 +1000, the renowned "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"John Fields"


** Do you know what " meat plow " refers to ?

Something that furrow one's brow?


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

"Spehro Pefhany"

** Do you know what " meat plow " refers to ?

Something that furrow one's brow?

** Not really.

Look it up.

** Interesting fact:

Testing a ( moving coil) driver with a battery establishes a polarity that
is the reverse of the "real" one during normal operation.

The *actual cone motion* in response to alternating current drive (within
a driver's operating band) involves a double integration of the current
ave [???] -- hence a 180 degree phase shift.

The same fact also means that a cone reproducing a square wave (within
it's
operating band ) follows a motion very close to that when reproducing a
sine
wave at the same fundamental frequency. IOW the third and higher order odd
harmonics of the square wave cause very little actual cone motion.

Bet anything this starts an argument.

There's no argument. As a degreed EE, I'm reasonably certain everything Mr
Clavin here has said is either wrong or a misinterpretation.

The claim of polarity inversion could easily be checked by monitoring the
speaker's output with a mic of known polarity. Or is Cliffy going to claim
that mics, too, have the "wrong" polarity?

There are two likely points of confusion. First, the current flow through an
inductor lags the voltage across the inductor by 90 degrees. (How a "double
integration" occurs is not immediately obvious.) Second, most cone-type
drivers are more resistive than reactive, so you're not going to get 90
degrees, anyway.

Assuming (incorrectly) that the driver were wholly inductive, a double
integration of the current would cause the current to fall at 12dB/8ve.
Assuming the driver is working "constantly velocity", you'd still wind up
with a 6dB/8ve net rolloff. (I think.)

I have no objection to someone saying "Everything you know is wrong!". I do
it all the time. But no one ever gives ME serious consideration, even when
I'm dead right. Cliff, here, should be grateful I treated his claims with a
degree of seriousness. It's far, far more than he deserves.

"John Fields" wrote in message
...

Why do you want to take a sad song and not make it better?

Phil's not so bad, he just has zero tolerance for bull**** and
responds vehemently when he sees it.

What's wrong with that?

Lots. There's no point or need to "respond vehemently". A simple statement
of the facts is enough.

It doesn't help that Cliffy refuses to admit his own errors.

"William Sommer****** is a colossal ****WIT"

Testing a ( moving coil) driver with a battery establishes a polarity
that
is the reverse of the "real" one during normal operation.

The *actual cone motion* in response to alternating current drive (within
a driver's operating band) involves a double integration of the current
wave [???] -- hence a 180 degree phase shift.

( snip)

Bet anything this starts an argument.

There's no argument. As a degreed EE,


** Shame you are also a 100% autistic metal retard.


Assuming (incorrectly) that the driver were wholly inductive, a double
integration of the current would cause the current to fall at 12dB/8ve.


** False assumptions lead to a false conclusions.

The point is entirely about * cone excursion* above resonance as a function
of drive frequency for fixed AC drive voltage. Obviously a cone does not
follow the actual drive voltage wave - or the excursion and all frequencies
would be the same.

Once you work out the simple relationship is between drive frequency and
cone excursion when the cone's mass dominates the game - you have it.


..... Phil

The point is entirely about * cone excursion* above resonance as a
function
of drive frequency for fixed AC drive voltage. Obviously a cone does not
follow the actual drive voltage wave - or the excursion and all
frequencies
would be the same.

Once you work out the simple relationship is between drive frequency and
cone excursion when the cone's mass dominates the game - you have it.

How dare you answer a criticism courteously -- what's the world coming to?

I'll check my books on acoustics about this.

On Wed, 18 May 2011 06:36:19 -0400 Spehro Pefhany
wrote in Message id:
:

On Wed, 18 May 2011 20:30:08 +1000, the renowned "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"John Fields"


** Do you know what " meat plow " refers to ?

Something that furrow one's brow?

A reference to the Stone Temple Pilots. I think.

On Wed, 18 May 2011 20:30:08 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"John Fields"


** Do you know what " meat plow " refers to ?




.... Phil

---
I'd guess a penis.

--
JF