I think the .70cm band howl is due to the PL tone
of what I listen to the most, local public safety
with a high 167.9? tone. Doesn't happen on a ham repeater with 110.9.
Haven't tried to put some pressure on the board to dampen an oscillation
between the speaker and the board yet. If i leave it on for more than 5
minutes it doesn't act up. Also the power on problem is now 3 pushes
then hold and it turns one, every time. I hold the button for 1 second
in between pushes. Also I failed to mention I did not use this radio
for maybe 6 months, during the period I only used my new FT-60. The VX-5
was nearly impossible to turn on after that. But the more it's used
the quicker it comes on.

Finally, it's hard to believe the original battery still performs like
new. Makes me wonder why some fail so quickly. Must be a quality issue.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:11:28 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

I think the .70cm band howl is due to the PL tone
of what I listen to the most, local public safety
with a high 167.9? tone. Doesn't happen on a ham repeater with 110.9.

Put an oscilloscope on the speaker and see for yourself. It's
possible but it would need to be belching harmonics of 167.9Hz to be
heard. The 300 Hz high pass filter in the receiver works quite well.
The local railroad uses a 203.5 Hz tone, which I can't hear on my
VX-5r. Also, it wouldn't "howl" or "ring" if it were PL feed through
unless it were on the same mechanical resonance that's causing the VCO
to become microphonic.

Haven't tried to put some pressure on the board to dampen an oscillation
between the speaker and the board yet.

My guess(tm) is that some foam pads in strategic places will eliminate
the microphonics.

If i leave it on for more than 5
minutes it doesn't act up.

That's unusual. That can't be PL feedthrough unless the audio section
is drifting around in gain or phase. My brain is into paying bills
tonite, so give me a little time to think about that one. They
symptoms don't seem very consistent with microphonics.

Also the power on problem is now 3 pushes
then hold and it turns one, every time. I hold the button for 1 second
in between pushes.

Open radio. Remove membrane keyboard. Clean with alcohol and "sand"
the graphite contacts. Clean the mating PCB pads. That should get
rid of that problem.

Also I failed to mention I did not use this radio
for maybe 6 months, during the period I only used my new FT-60. The VX-5
was nearly impossible to turn on after that. But the more it's used
the quicker it comes on.

Well, the VX-5r could have become jealous of the FT-60 during this
time, but I doubt it. Try separating the two and see if they behave
in a more civilized manner.

Finally, it's hard to believe the original battery still performs like
new. Makes me wonder why some fail so quickly. Must be a quality issue.

I've seen that will some cell phone batteries. The OEM batteries seem
to last forever, while the cheap Chinese eBay clones, die in less than
half the time. Of course, I can buy maybe 10 cheap batteries for one
OEM from the cellular provider, so buying junk is still a win. The
battery in my VX-5R is the same as it was purchased by the former
owner. My guess is about 1998. It still seems as good as new but I
haven't bothered to verify that with my West Mtn Radio CBA-II battery
tester.

Drivel: Now programming a VX-6R for a friend. I discovered yesterday
that my VX-5R cable won't fit in the VX-6R. both radios have a fairly
standard 4 pin 3.5mm connector. However, The VX-6R connector has a
threaded section instead of the flush plastic body. The result is the
VX-6R cable will fit in the VX-5R (and others), but not the reverse.
Welcome to designed obsolescence. Buy a new radio, and you have to
buy a new programming cable (and software). Incidentally, the various
VX-?r Commander software is much better than the stock RT Systems or
Yaesu software.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:00:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:11:28 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

I think the .70cm band howl is due to the PL tone of what I listen to
the most, local public safety with a high 167.9? tone. Doesn't happen on
a ham repeater with 110.9.

Put an oscilloscope on the speaker and see for yourself. It's possible
but it would need to be belching harmonics of 167.9Hz to be heard. The
300 Hz high pass filter in the receiver works quite well. The local
railroad uses a 203.5 Hz tone, which I can't hear on my VX-5r. Also, it
wouldn't "howl" or "ring" if it were PL feed through unless it were on
the same mechanical resonance that's causing the VCO to become
microphonic.

I can hear the PL tone. Maybe the highpass filter isn't working? It's not
loud but it's there. Hook it up to an external com speaker and it loud.

Haven't tried to put some pressure on the board to dampen an oscillation
between the speaker and the board yet.

My guess(tm) is that some foam pads in strategic places will eliminate
the microphonics.

I'm going to do that when i peel it apart and clean the touchpad.

If i leave it on for more than 5
minutes it doesn't act up.

That's unusual. That can't be PL feedthrough unless the audio section
is drifting around in gain or phase. My brain is into paying bills
tonite, so give me a little time to think about that one. They symptoms
don't seem very consistent with microphonics.

Yeah. If I crank the volume the howl goes away faster.

Also the power on problem is now 3 pushes then hold and it turns one,
every time. I hold the button for 1 second in between pushes.

Open radio. Remove membrane keyboard. Clean with alcohol and "sand"
the graphite contacts. Clean the mating PCB pads. That should get rid
of that problem.

Also I failed to mention I did not use this radio for maybe 6 months,
during the period I only used my new FT-60. The VX-5 was nearly
impossible to turn on after that. But the more it's used the quicker it
comes on.

Well, the VX-5r could have become jealous of the FT-60 during this time,
but I doubt it. Try separating the two and see if they behave in a more
civilized manner.

I'll try separating the two. But the VX-5 has nothing to be jealous
of the FT-60. It's full 5 watts on 2 with the E-DC-5B cig plug.

Finally, it's hard to believe the original battery still performs like
new. Makes me wonder why some fail so quickly. Must be a quality issue.

I've seen that will some cell phone batteries. The OEM batteries seem
to last forever, while the cheap Chinese eBay clones, die in less than
half the time. Of course, I can buy maybe 10 cheap batteries for one
OEM from the cellular provider, so buying junk is still a win. The
battery in my VX-5R is the same as it was purchased by the former owner.
My guess is about 1998. It still seems as good as new but I haven't
bothered to verify that with my West Mtn Radio CBA-II battery tester.

Drivel: Now programming a VX-6R for a friend. I discovered yesterday
that my VX-5R cable won't fit in the VX-6R. both radios have a fairly
standard 4 pin 3.5mm connector. However, The VX-6R connector has a
threaded section instead of the flush plastic body. The result is the
VX-6R cable will fit in the VX-5R (and others), but not the reverse.
Welcome to designed obsolescence. Buy a new radio, and you have to buy
a new programming cable (and software). Incidentally, the various VX-?r
Commander software is much better than the stock RT Systems or Yaesu
software.

I would almost expect that being a ham on decade 3 of his license.

Oh and more drivel. I have two batteries for the FT-60. One will charge
with the E-DC-5B cig plug, one wont. However both charge to 8.3 volts
in the rapid drop charger CD-29. Both are 1400mah 7.2v. Got any insight
on that?



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 05:15:01 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

I can hear the PL tone. Maybe the highpass filter isn't working? It's not
loud but it's there. Hook it up to an external com speaker and it loud.

The tiny speaker inside the radio probably has no low frequency
response and will greatly help reduce any PL feedthrough. However,
your external speaker will probably work below 300Hz, making the buzz
appear louder.

However, the real question what frequency are you hearing? My
guess(tm) is very little fundamental (167.9) and plenty of harmonics.

Also, try listening to the same channel on a scanner or other radio.
If all the receivers hear the buzz, it's coming from the transmitter.
If only the VX-5R belches buzz, there's a problem inside.

That's unusual. That can't be PL feedthrough unless the audio section
is drifting around in gain or phase. My brain is into paying bills
tonite, so give me a little time to think about that one. They symptoms
don't seem very consistent with microphonics.

Yeah. If I crank the volume the howl goes away faster.

Huh? That's backwards if it's microphonics. I like mysteries but
this is more than a little odd.

I'll try separating the two. But the VX-5 has nothing to be jealous
of the FT-60. It's full 5 watts on 2 with the E-DC-5B cig plug.

Yep. It also has a built in timeout timer at 5 watts out. It gets so
hot that you can't hold it in your hand after about 1 minute of
transmitting.

Paraphrasing Sherlock Holmes, after the impossible, rediculous, inane,
stupid, and absurd theories have been eliminates, that what remains,
no matter how dumb sounding, must be the explanation. Make sure the
FT-60 is in a separate room when testing the VX-5r. The jealousy
theory still has merit until disproven.

Oh and more drivel. I have two batteries for the FT-60. One will charge
with the E-DC-5B cig plug, one wont. However both charge to 8.3 volts
in the rapid drop charger CD-29. Both are 1400mah 7.2v. Got any insight
on that?

Sorry, no clue. I've seen some clone batteries fail to charge in the
cell phone because the vendor left out the monitoring chip from the
battery pack to save a few pennies. They would charge in various
"universal" cell phone chargers, but not inside the phone. There are
also various anti-counterfeit battery chips being used by some vendors
after litigation for alleged injuries caused by exploding cell phone
batteries.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:46:57 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 05:15:01 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

I can hear the PL tone. Maybe the highpass filter isn't working? It's
not loud but it's there. Hook it up to an external com speaker and it
loud.

The tiny speaker inside the radio probably has no low frequency response
and will greatly help reduce any PL feedthrough. However, your external
speaker will probably work below 300Hz, making the buzz appear louder.

However, the real question what frequency are you hearing? My guess(tm)
is very little fundamental (167.9) and plenty of harmonics.

Depends if the PL tone is dirty? It may be or at too high a level? Yet
you can't even hear it on the FT-60.

Also, try listening to the same channel on a scanner or other radio. If
all the receivers hear the buzz, it's coming from the transmitter. If
only the VX-5R belches buzz, there's a problem inside.

Yeah its detectable on a couple different scanners. And even on the
internet scanners used by scanner-911-something.com Lets you listen to
police on your computer or Ipod Touch.

That's unusual. That can't be PL feedthrough unless the audio section
is drifting around in gain or phase. My brain is into paying bills
tonite, so give me a little time to think about that one. They
symptoms don't seem very consistent with microphonics.

Yeah. If I crank the volume the howl goes away faster.

Huh? That's backwards if it's microphonics. I like mysteries but this
is more than a little odd.

It kid ov validates the grounding problem I first read. More vibrates
seats the grounds. I will first try to dispute or prove this by following
the instructions I have archived. Before I try pressure on the board.


I'll try separating the two. But the VX-5 has nothing to be jealous of
the FT-60. It's full 5 watts on 2 with the E-DC-5B cig plug.

Yep. It also has a built in timeout timer at 5 watts out. It gets so
hot that you can't hold it in your hand after about 1 minute of
transmitting.

I think the TOT is for packet mostly. Most repeaters running in normal
mode allow 1 minute continuous if that. And yes the brick in the VX gets
very hot. Especially on 6 meters. probably an antenna mismatch VSWR
thingy.

Paraphrasing Sherlock Holmes, after the impossible, rediculous, inane,
stupid, and absurd theories have been eliminates, that what remains, no
matter how dumb sounding, must be the explanation. Make sure the FT-60
is in a separate room when testing the VX-5r. The jealousy theory still
has merit until disproven.

Oh and more drivel. I have two batteries for the FT-60. One will charge
with the E-DC-5B cig plug, one wont. However both charge to 8.3 volts in
the rapid drop charger CD-29. Both are 1400mah 7.2v. Got any insight on
that?

Sorry, no clue. I've seen some clone batteries fail to charge in the
cell phone because the vendor left out the monitoring chip from the
battery pack to save a few pennies. They would charge in various
"universal" cell phone chargers, but not inside the phone. There are
also various anti-counterfeit battery chips being used by some vendors
after litigation for alleged injuries caused by exploding cell phone
batteries.

Both Ft-60 packs are factory. And both charge normal on the rapid
charger. It stumps me why only one charges using the cig plug.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:03:36 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:46:57 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

However, the real question what frequency are you hearing? My guess(tm)
is very little fundamental (167.9) and plenty of harmonics.

Depends if the PL tone is dirty?

Yes. If the high pass filter is doing its job, then you a pure sine
wave (i.e. no harmonics) will NOT be heard in the speaker, even if it
is slightly over deviated. The catch is that the de-emphasis network
makes low frequency modulation rather loud while attenuating the highs
with a -6dB/octave roll-off. If the PL deviation is high enough, it
will hit some limit, clip, and therefore generate harmonics. Each
radio has it's own limit as to how much PL over-deviation it can
handle. My guess is anything up to about +/- 1.5KHz is fairly clean.

It may be or at too high a level?

No. See previous guesswork. If the over-deviated, but clean, you
should not be able to hear it through the high pass filter (unless the
tone is sufficiently close to the filter edge to leak through. If you
have a service monitor, you should be able to test the VX-5R receiver
for how much PL it can handle before it clips and spews harmonics.

Yet
you can't even hear it on the FT-60.

Different tolerances to over deviated PL? I don't know without
running some bench tests on the radios.

Yeah its detectable on a couple different scanners. And even on the
internet scanners used by scanner-911-something.com Lets you listen to
police on your computer or Ipod Touch.

Most scanners have really marginal PL high pass filters. Internet
scanners are a different horror story. Some spew flat audio directly
from the discriminator. The result is that this bypasses the
de-emphasis network and high pass PL filter. RadioReference.com has
recognized the problem and inserts de-emphasis and high pass filters
on their end, but that's a band-aid. The filtering really should be
done at the source. Sometimes they forget, and the audio really
sounds awful and full of PL buzz. Other reflectors just resend what
they receive, resulting in the same awful audio and buzz. No clue
what you're hearing. I would put the feed on an audio spectrum
analyzer and look at what's being received. If the audio envelope
looks like it's sloping downward at about -6dB/octave, you're getting
flat audio. If the PL looks like a comb line, it's being clipped
somewhere.

Yeah. If I crank the volume the howl goes away faster.

Huh? That's backwards if it's microphonics. I like mysteries but this
is more than a little odd.

It kid ov validates the grounding problem I first read. More vibrates
seats the grounds. I will first try to dispute or prove this by following
the instructions I have archived. Before I try pressure on the board.

Sounds fair. Radio diagnostics and service by remote control is far
from perfected. I'm always open to alternative explanations.

Both Ft-60 packs are factory. And both charge normal on the rapid
charger. It stumps me why only one charges using the cig plug.

Bad connection on the battery monitor contact? Sorry, but I can't
think of anything better.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 23:26:54 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:03:36 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:46:57 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

However, the real question what frequency are you hearing? My
guess(tm) is very little fundamental (167.9) and plenty of harmonics.

Depends if the PL tone is dirty?

Yes. If the high pass filter is doing its job, then you a pure sine
wave (i.e. no harmonics) will NOT be heard in the speaker, even if it is
slightly over deviated. The catch is that the de-emphasis network makes
low frequency modulation rather loud while attenuating the highs with a
-6dB/octave roll-off. If the PL deviation is high enough, it will hit
some limit, clip, and therefore generate harmonics. Each radio has it's
own limit as to how much PL over-deviation it can handle. My guess is
anything up to about +/- 1.5KHz is fairly clean.

It may be or at too high a level?

No. See previous guesswork. If the over-deviated, but clean, you
should not be able to hear it through the high pass filter (unless the
tone is sufficiently close to the filter edge to leak through. If you
have a service monitor, you should be able to test the VX-5R receiver
for how much PL it can handle before it clips and spews harmonics.

Yet
you can't even hear it on the FT-60.

Different tolerances to over deviated PL? I don't know without running
some bench tests on the radios.

Yeah its detectable on a couple different scanners. And even on the
internet scanners used by scanner-911-something.com Lets you listen to
police on your computer or Ipod Touch.

Most scanners have really marginal PL high pass filters. Internet
scanners are a different horror story. Some spew flat audio directly
from the discriminator. The result is that this bypasses the
de-emphasis network and high pass PL filter. RadioReference.com has
recognized the problem and inserts de-emphasis and high pass filters on
their end, but that's a band-aid. The filtering really should be done
at the source. Sometimes they forget, and the audio really sounds awful
and full of PL buzz. Other reflectors just resend what they receive,
resulting in the same awful audio and buzz. No clue what you're
hearing. I would put the feed on an audio spectrum analyzer and look at
what's being received. If the audio envelope looks like it's sloping
downward at about -6dB/octave, you're getting flat audio. If the PL
looks like a comb line, it's being clipped somewhere.

Yeah. If I crank the volume the howl goes away faster.

Huh? That's backwards if it's microphonics. I like mysteries but
this is more than a little odd.

It kid ov validates the grounding problem I first read. More vibrates
seats the grounds. I will first try to dispute or prove this by
following the instructions I have archived. Before I try pressure on the
board.

Sounds fair. Radio diagnostics and service by remote control is far
from perfected. I'm always open to alternative explanations.

Both Ft-60 packs are factory. And both charge normal on the rapid
charger. It stumps me why only one charges using the cig plug.

Bad connection on the battery monitor contact? Sorry, but I can't think
of anything better.

I'll try to clean them. The drop charger uses external contacts like the
VX-5 only they are backwards Or i could use the same charge on bot
radios. Why Vertex Standard decided to do this only could be because the
ywant you to spend more money. Mother effers.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 19:56:54 +0000, Meat Plow wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 23:26:54 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:03:36 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:46:57 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

However, the real question what frequency are you hearing? My
guess(tm) is very little fundamental (167.9) and plenty of harmonics.

Depends if the PL tone is dirty?

Yes. If the high pass filter is doing its job, then you a pure sine
wave (i.e. no harmonics) will NOT be heard in the speaker, even if it
is slightly over deviated. The catch is that the de-emphasis network
makes low frequency modulation rather loud while attenuating the highs
with a -6dB/octave roll-off. If the PL deviation is high enough, it
will hit some limit, clip, and therefore generate harmonics. Each
radio has it's own limit as to how much PL over-deviation it can
handle. My guess is anything up to about +/- 1.5KHz is fairly clean.

It may be or at too high a level?

No. See previous guesswork. If the over-deviated, but clean, you
should not be able to hear it through the high pass filter (unless the
tone is sufficiently close to the filter edge to leak through. If you
have a service monitor, you should be able to test the VX-5R receiver
for how much PL it can handle before it clips and spews harmonics.

Yet
you can't even hear it on the FT-60.

Different tolerances to over deviated PL? I don't know without running
some bench tests on the radios.

Yeah its detectable on a couple different scanners. And even on the
internet scanners used by scanner-911-something.com Lets you listen to
police on your computer or Ipod Touch.

Most scanners have really marginal PL high pass filters. Internet
scanners are a different horror story. Some spew flat audio directly
from the discriminator. The result is that this bypasses the
de-emphasis network and high pass PL filter. RadioReference.com has
recognized the problem and inserts de-emphasis and high pass filters on
their end, but that's a band-aid. The filtering really should be done
at the source. Sometimes they forget, and the audio really sounds
awful and full of PL buzz. Other reflectors just resend what they
receive, resulting in the same awful audio and buzz. No clue what
you're hearing. I would put the feed on an audio spectrum analyzer and
look at what's being received. If the audio envelope looks like it's
sloping downward at about -6dB/octave, you're getting flat audio. If
the PL looks like a comb line, it's being clipped somewhere.

Yeah. If I crank the volume the howl goes away faster.

Huh? That's backwards if it's microphonics. I like mysteries but
this is more than a little odd.

It kid ov validates the grounding problem I first read. More vibrates
seats the grounds. I will first try to dispute or prove this by
following the instructions I have archived. Before I try pressure on
the board.

Sounds fair. Radio diagnostics and service by remote control is far
from perfected. I'm always open to alternative explanations.

Both Ft-60 packs are factory. And both charge normal on the rapid
charger. It stumps me why only one charges using the cig plug.

Bad connection on the battery monitor contact? Sorry, but I can't
think of anything better.

I'll try to clean them. The drop charger uses external contacts like the
VX-5 only they are backwards Or i could use the same charge on bot
radios. Why Vertex Standard decided to do this only could be because the
ywant you to spend more money. Mother effers.

Two pins on the FT-60 battery pack. The radio must have a built in sense
circuit that shuts off the charge. And that does happen because after say
8 hours using the cig plug to charge the battery is cool. However, the
battery pack in question never does warm. But when charged via the rapid
drop charger it not only charges and displays the same 8.3 volts when the
radio is turned on but lasts as long as the other battery. Go figure that
out.



--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse