On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 23:26:54 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:03:36 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:46:57 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

However, the real question what frequency are you hearing? My
guess(tm) is very little fundamental (167.9) and plenty of harmonics.

Depends if the PL tone is dirty?

Yes. If the high pass filter is doing its job, then you a pure sine
wave (i.e. no harmonics) will NOT be heard in the speaker, even if it is
slightly over deviated. The catch is that the de-emphasis network makes
low frequency modulation rather loud while attenuating the highs with a
-6dB/octave roll-off. If the PL deviation is high enough, it will hit
some limit, clip, and therefore generate harmonics. Each radio has it's
own limit as to how much PL over-deviation it can handle. My guess is
anything up to about +/- 1.5KHz is fairly clean.

It may be or at too high a level?

No. See previous guesswork. If the over-deviated, but clean, you
should not be able to hear it through the high pass filter (unless the
tone is sufficiently close to the filter edge to leak through. If you
have a service monitor, you should be able to test the VX-5R receiver
for how much PL it can handle before it clips and spews harmonics.

Yet
you can't even hear it on the FT-60.

Different tolerances to over deviated PL? I don't know without running
some bench tests on the radios.

Yeah its detectable on a couple different scanners. And even on the
internet scanners used by scanner-911-something.com Lets you listen to
police on your computer or Ipod Touch.

Most scanners have really marginal PL high pass filters. Internet
scanners are a different horror story. Some spew flat audio directly
from the discriminator. The result is that this bypasses the
de-emphasis network and high pass PL filter. RadioReference.com has
recognized the problem and inserts de-emphasis and high pass filters on
their end, but that's a band-aid. The filtering really should be done
at the source. Sometimes they forget, and the audio really sounds awful
and full of PL buzz. Other reflectors just resend what they receive,
resulting in the same awful audio and buzz. No clue what you're
hearing. I would put the feed on an audio spectrum analyzer and look at
what's being received. If the audio envelope looks like it's sloping
downward at about -6dB/octave, you're getting flat audio. If the PL
looks like a comb line, it's being clipped somewhere.

Yeah. If I crank the volume the howl goes away faster.

Huh? That's backwards if it's microphonics. I like mysteries but
this is more than a little odd.

It kid ov validates the grounding problem I first read. More vibrates
seats the grounds. I will first try to dispute or prove this by
following the instructions I have archived. Before I try pressure on the
board.

Sounds fair. Radio diagnostics and service by remote control is far
from perfected. I'm always open to alternative explanations.

Both Ft-60 packs are factory. And both charge normal on the rapid
charger. It stumps me why only one charges using the cig plug.

Bad connection on the battery monitor contact? Sorry, but I can't think
of anything better.

I'll try to clean them. The drop charger uses external contacts like the
VX-5 only they are backwards Or i could use the same charge on bot
radios. Why Vertex Standard decided to do this only could be because the
ywant you to spend more money. Mother effers.



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