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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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lead free solder
What happens if you use regular solder on something that was originally lead-free,
or you get the lead free solder on a regular iron? I understand manufacturers keep separate lines as mixing the two is bad, but what about in the repair world? Does lead free solder mess up good quality tips or anything like that? |
#2
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lead free solder
In article ,
Cydrome Leader wrote: What happens if you use regular solder on something that was originally lead-free, or you get the lead free solder on a regular iron? I understand manufacturers keep separate lines as mixing the two is bad, but what about in the repair world? Does lead free solder mess up good quality tips or anything like that? CL- One problem occurs if you use leaded solder on surface-mounted components. Lead amalgamates with the silver that is "fired" onto these components, ruining their electrical connection. I've read that a lead-contaminated solder iron can cause the problem even if lead-free solder is used. I've never heard of the opposite case with lead-free solder. To be safe, I keep two sets of equipment. Fred |
#3
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lead free solder
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... What happens if you use regular solder on something that was originally lead-free, or you get the lead free solder on a regular iron? I understand manufacturers keep separate lines as mixing the two is bad, but what about in the repair world? Does lead free solder mess up good quality tips or anything like that? The metalurgical wisdom is that leaded and lead-free solders should not be mixed in the same joint, as the mixing can, apparently, compromise the long-term integrity of the joint. I don't know whereabouts in the world you are, but across Europe, strictly speaking, it is actually illegal to use leaded solder, or non RoHS components, to repair anything manufactured in lead-free after implementation of the RoHS directive, which was June 2006 (I think) in the UK. Prior to that time, some manufacturers, notably Sony, were already manufacturing in lead-free, and insisting that their dealers used *only* lead-free to effect repairs to all of their equipment, irrespective of whether it was originally manufactured in lead-free or leaded solder. This actually flew in the face of expert advice which recommended using only the type of solder that the equipment was originally manufactured with. There was no legal mandate to use lead-free solder for repairs to any equipment manufactured prior to RoHS implementation, whether it was manufactured with lead-free, or not. There is still no legal requirement to use lead-free solder to repair any equipment originally built with leaded solder. As to whether lead-free damages tips, that's a bit of a grey one. If you are using iron-clad tips, then yes, it does rot them much quicker than leaded solder does. The reasons for this appear to be threefold. According to Cooper Tools, who manufacture Weller soldering equipment, the composition of lead-free solder has a tendency to 'leach' iron from the tip coating, resulting in it failing quite quickly, and exposing the underlying copper, which then rapidly burns away. Secondly, because lead-free solder does not wet joints as well as leaded solder did, much more aggressive fluxes have to be used, and again, these have a detrimental corrosive effect on the iron tip coating. Thirdly, the temperatures required for lead-free hand soldering are typically 30 deg C higher than those required by leaded solder. These higher tip temperatures tend to exacerbate tip degradation. My experience with Weller iron clad tips, would tend to bear out the contention that lead-free solder destroys them much quicker than leaded did. That said, a few months back, Antex changed their tips back to being what looks like chrome plated, as they used to be 30 years back. This seems to have produced a significant improvement in the life of their tips, and I wonder if they have done it to combat the negative effects on tip life that lead-free has given us. As to mixing leaded and lead-free on the same tip, unless you are going to keep completely separate irons burning all the time, I think that it's pretty much unavoidable in a typical workshop environment, dealing with many types and ages of equipment. If you keep a wet sponge on your iron's stand, and get into the habit of giving the tip a wipe every time you pick the iron up, then I don't think that any residual quantities of either type left on the tip, will be enough to cause any problems. Arfa |
#4
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lead free solder
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... What happens if you use regular solder on something that was originally lead-free, or you get the lead free solder on a regular iron? I understand manufacturers keep separate lines as mixing the two is bad, but what about in the repair world? Does lead free solder mess up good quality tips or anything like that? The metalurgical wisdom is that leaded and lead-free solders should not be mixed in the same joint, as the mixing can, apparently, compromise the long-term integrity of the joint. I don't know whereabouts in the world you are, but across Europe, strictly speaking, it is actually illegal to use leaded solder, or non RoHS components, to repair anything manufactured in lead-free after implementation of the RoHS directive, which was June 2006 (I think) in the UK. Prior to that time, some manufacturers, notably Sony, were Luckily, here in the US you can buy and use any type of solder ever made. The issue which I've avoided but can't be ignored is that there's lots of that RoHS crap floating around and I will at some point have to deal with it. A friend that's starting out in electronics and building some basic kits wants to use a soldering iron. I'm not clear on if I should just grab a spare and hand them a roll of 60/40, or get new tips for them and let them start "fresh" with some lead-free sample packs from trade shows. It's all through the hole stuff, and probably doesn't matter at al for what they're doing now. Also are there any foolproof method of telling if lower production type items are traditional or lead-free? already manufacturing in lead-free, and insisting that their dealers used *only* lead-free to effect repairs to all of their equipment, irrespective of whether it was originally manufactured in lead-free or leaded solder. This actually flew in the face of expert advice which recommended using only the type of solder that the equipment was originally manufactured with. There was no legal mandate to use lead-free solder for repairs to any equipment manufactured prior to RoHS implementation, whether it was manufactured with lead-free, or not. There is still no legal requirement to use lead-free solder to repair any equipment originally built with leaded solder. As to whether lead-free damages tips, that's a bit of a grey one. If you are using iron-clad tips, then yes, it does rot them much quicker than leaded solder does. The reasons for this appear to be threefold. According to Cooper Tools, who manufacture Weller soldering equipment, the composition of Boo |
#5
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lead free solder
In article ,
Fred McKenzie wrote: One problem occurs if you use leaded solder on surface-mounted components. Lead amalgamates with the silver that is "fired" onto these components, ruining their electrical connection. Huh? What the devil are you talking about? |
#6
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lead free solder
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... What happens if you use regular solder on something that was originally lead-free, or you get the lead free solder on a regular iron? I understand manufacturers keep separate lines as mixing the two is bad, but what about in the repair world? Does lead free solder mess up good quality tips or anything like that? The metalurgical wisdom is that leaded and lead-free solders should not be mixed in the same joint, as the mixing can, apparently, compromise the long-term integrity of the joint. I don't know whereabouts in the world you are, but across Europe, strictly speaking, it is actually illegal to use leaded solder, or non RoHS components, to repair anything manufactured in lead-free after implementation of the RoHS directive, which was June 2006 (I think) in the UK. Prior to that time, some manufacturers, notably Sony, were Luckily, here in the US you can buy and use any type of solder ever made. The issue which I've avoided but can't be ignored is that there's lots of that RoHS crap floating around and I will at some point have to deal with it. A friend that's starting out in electronics and building some basic kits wants to use a soldering iron. I'm not clear on if I should just grab a spare and hand them a roll of 60/40, or get new tips for them and let them start "fresh" with some lead-free sample packs from trade shows. It's all through the hole stuff, and probably doesn't matter at al for what they're doing now. Also are there any foolproof method of telling if lower production type items are traditional or lead-free? already manufacturing in lead-free, and insisting that their dealers used *only* lead-free to effect repairs to all of their equipment, irrespective of whether it was originally manufactured in lead-free or leaded solder. This actually flew in the face of expert advice which recommended using only the type of solder that the equipment was originally manufactured with. There was no legal mandate to use lead-free solder for repairs to any equipment manufactured prior to RoHS implementation, whether it was manufactured with lead-free, or not. There is still no legal requirement to use lead-free solder to repair any equipment originally built with leaded solder. As to whether lead-free damages tips, that's a bit of a grey one. If you are using iron-clad tips, then yes, it does rot them much quicker than leaded solder does. The reasons for this appear to be threefold. According to Cooper Tools, who manufacture Weller soldering equipment, the composition of Boo If the friend is not already an experienced hand-solderer, and there is no legal requirement for him to use lead-free, then I would not start him off with it. Even the latest alloys specifically for hand soldering, still have a bit of a 'pasty' feel to them, and are not intuitive to solder with, as leaded solder was. Even for the most experienced of us, lead-free solder is still quite easy to make bad (or mechanically not very good) joints with, particularly on large components, and those which are reluctant to take solder in the first place. If your friend is doing kit building just for himself, then maybe you could consider introducing lead-free at some point in his training, once he has got the hang of leaded soldering, but if there is any commercial angle to his activities, where any lack of reliability will come down on his head, then I would say stick to leaded if your local laws allow. Of course, if there is a commercial angle, and he has any intention of selling internationally, then he must consider that it may be a requirement that he uses lead-free. There doesn't seem to be a reliable way of telling lead-free for definite, without some 'help' from the manufacturers. This help is usually in the form of a symbol silkscreened on the board that is either a circle with the letters Pb in it, and a strike-through line across it, or the letters "PbF". In general, if a commercially sold piece of consumer electronics has been built in either Europe or the far east since mid 2006, it will definitely be lead-free. I believe Australia is the same, but I'm not sure of the date they went lead-free. Perhaps one of the Oz lads in the group can help out with that one. Mr N.Cook on here has done considerable research on trying to come up with a definitive test for lead-free. If you search this group for the last 6 months of posts by him, you should catch them all. Other than this, with a good eye, you can identify most lead-free constructed boards. The joints tend to have a dull grey surface, and are shaped more like a volcano than the typical leaded joint which has a concave profile between the pad and component leg. If you apply a normal non temperature controlled iron to a lead-free joint, you will quickly spot the difference. It just doesn't melt, flow and resolidify in the same eutectic way as leaded solder - particularly at leaded solder temperatures. Arfa |
#7
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lead free solder
On May 24, 5:36*pm, Cydrome Leader wrote:
What happens if you use regular solder on something that was originally lead-free, or you get the lead free solder on a regular iron? I understand manufacturers keep separate lines as mixing the two is bad, but what about in the repair world? Does lead free solder mess up good quality tips or anything like that? Unless you have an in with the manufacturer, or you exclusively repair top-tier industrial hardware that is very well documented, you have no idea what kind of solder was originally used. Yes, it may have a green checkmark on it, and yes, you may be very competent at identifying lead-free solder by the look and feel, but there is a wide variety of lead and lead-free solders out there, and mixing two lead-free alloys can make a connection that's as unreliable as a mixed lead/lead-free joint. Essentially you are randomly mixing metals with no controls. You also don't know if the engineers chose to use non-lead-free components on a lead-free board, or tweaked the profile to compensate for the "right" solder being unavailable. If you're fixing something made in China, you can't claim to know anything at all about it. That board could have been assembled with melted-down jewelry from Wal- Mart. So much goes on behind the scene that you'll always be guessing. I have never heard of lead and silver causing trouble. I've been using RS 2% Ag "hi tech" solder since the 80s for no particular reason other than the old tektronix scopes I worked on back then had silver-ceramic barrier strips in them; you had to use solder with silver or it would strip the metal from the ceramic. The stuff works just as well on motherboard bridges today. Another thought on mixing lead and lead-free: While it may cause unreliability issues, you'll never have a warranty claim as a result. We're talking decades here, not months. How long is that piece of equipment going to be in use? |
#8
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lead free solder
Smitty Two wrote:
In article , Fred McKenzie wrote: One problem occurs if you use leaded solder on surface-mounted components. Lead amalgamates with the silver that is "fired" onto these components, ruining their electrical connection. Huh? What the devil are you talking about? This is not new. Tektronix used to include a bit of silver bearing solder with their scopes so you wouldn't ruin the plated ceramic terminal strips if you changed out parts. Jeff -- “Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity.” Frank Leahy, Head coach, Notre Dame 1941-1954 http://www.stay-connect.com |
#9
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lead free solder
Arfa Daily wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... Arfa Daily wrote: "Cydrome Leader" wrote in message ... What happens if you use regular solder on something that was originally lead-free, or you get the lead free solder on a regular iron? I understand manufacturers keep separate lines as mixing the two is bad, but what about in the repair world? Does lead free solder mess up good quality tips or anything like that? The metalurgical wisdom is that leaded and lead-free solders should not be mixed in the same joint, as the mixing can, apparently, compromise the long-term integrity of the joint. I don't know whereabouts in the world you are, but across Europe, strictly speaking, it is actually illegal to use leaded solder, or non RoHS components, to repair anything manufactured in lead-free after implementation of the RoHS directive, which was June 2006 (I think) in the UK. Prior to that time, some manufacturers, notably Sony, were Luckily, here in the US you can buy and use any type of solder ever made. The issue which I've avoided but can't be ignored is that there's lots of that RoHS crap floating around and I will at some point have to deal with it. A friend that's starting out in electronics and building some basic kits wants to use a soldering iron. I'm not clear on if I should just grab a spare and hand them a roll of 60/40, or get new tips for them and let them start "fresh" with some lead-free sample packs from trade shows. It's all through the hole stuff, and probably doesn't matter at al for what they're doing now. Also are there any foolproof method of telling if lower production type items are traditional or lead-free? already manufacturing in lead-free, and insisting that their dealers used *only* lead-free to effect repairs to all of their equipment, irrespective of whether it was originally manufactured in lead-free or leaded solder. This actually flew in the face of expert advice which recommended using only the type of solder that the equipment was originally manufactured with. There was no legal mandate to use lead-free solder for repairs to any equipment manufactured prior to RoHS implementation, whether it was manufactured with lead-free, or not. There is still no legal requirement to use lead-free solder to repair any equipment originally built with leaded solder. As to whether lead-free damages tips, that's a bit of a grey one. If you are using iron-clad tips, then yes, it does rot them much quicker than leaded solder does. The reasons for this appear to be threefold. According to Cooper Tools, who manufacture Weller soldering equipment, the composition of Boo If the friend is not already an experienced hand-solderer, and there is no legal requirement for him to use lead-free, then I would not start him off with it. Even the latest alloys specifically for hand soldering, still have a bit of a 'pasty' feel to them, and are not intuitive to solder with, as leaded solder was. Even for the most experienced of us, lead-free solder is still quite easy to make bad (or mechanically not very good) joints with, particularly on large components, and those which are reluctant to take solder in the first place. If your friend is doing kit building just for himself, then maybe you could consider introducing lead-free at some point in his training, once he has got the hang of leaded soldering, but if there is any commercial angle to his activities, where any lack of reliability will come down on his head, then I would say stick to leaded if your local laws allow. Of course, if there is a commercial angle, and he has any intention of selling internationally, then he must consider that it may be a requirement that he uses lead-free. I guess I have another question based off what you're saying. Aside from silver plated or specialty parts in an old scope, is there any harm done in using real solder in a RoHS device? Here's an example. a resistor mounted through-hole has a bad joint. Normal repair just reheat the joint and add more solder. No problem. Say it's Rohs assembly this time around. Will regular 60/40 even melt and fuse with the lead free stuff, or you do you need to remove the tin stuff and then resolder from scratch, or is it really just best to resolder with lead free solder? I've not tested it, because I really don't want to botch up my tips, sponges all that stuff. There doesn't seem to be a reliable way of telling lead-free for definite, without some 'help' from the manufacturers. This help is usually in the form of a symbol silkscreened on the board that is either a circle with the letters Pb in it, and a strike-through line across it, or the letters "PbF". In general, if a commercially sold piece of consumer electronics has been built in either Europe or the far east since mid 2006, it will definitely be lead-free. I believe Australia is the same, but I'm not sure of the date they went lead-free. Perhaps one of the Oz lads in the group can help out with that one. Mr N.Cook on here has done considerable research on trying to come up with a definitive test for lead-free. If you search this group for the last 6 months of posts by him, you should catch them all. Other than this, with a good eye, you can identify most lead-free constructed boards. The joints tend to have a dull grey surface, and are shaped more like a volcano than the typical leaded joint which has a concave profile between the pad and component leg. If you apply a normal non temperature controlled iron to a lead-free joint, you will quickly spot the difference. It just doesn't melt, flow and resolidify in the same eutectic way as leaded solder - particularly at leaded solder temperatures. Interesting. I may need to tear apart some equipment I have and compare. It's alleged the the new version is rohs while the last one are conventional. |
#10
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lead free solder
On 5/25/2010 8:23 AM Jeffrey D Angus spake thus:
Smitty Two wrote: In article , Fred McKenzie wrote: One problem occurs if you use leaded solder on surface-mounted components. Lead amalgamates with the silver that is "fired" onto these components, ruining their electrical connection. Huh? What the devil are you talking about? This is not new. Tektronix used to include a bit of silver bearing solder with their scopes so you wouldn't ruin the plated ceramic terminal strips if you changed out parts. Well, it was silver-*bearing*: still mixed with lead, no? (I assume this is pre-RoHS.) -- The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring, with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags. - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com) |
#11
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lead free solder
In article ,
Jeffrey D Angus wrote: Smitty Two wrote: In article , Fred McKenzie wrote: One problem occurs if you use leaded solder on surface-mounted components. Lead amalgamates with the silver that is "fired" onto these components, ruining their electrical connection. Huh? What the devil are you talking about? This is not new. Tektronix used to include a bit of silver bearing solder with their scopes so you wouldn't ruin the plated ceramic terminal strips if you changed out parts. Jeff So adding tin/lead solder to a silver component terminal turns the connection into what, a non-conductive roofing shingle or something? I'm pretty sure I would have heard from a customer or two if the thousands of RoHS components I've soldered with 63/37 weren't conducting electricity. |
#12
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lead free solder
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#13
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lead free solder
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#15
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lead free solder
In article ,
Cydrome Leader wrote: a resistor mounted through-hole has a bad joint. Normal repair just reheat the joint and add more solder. No problem. 99% of the time, there's plenty of solder already there. So add FLUX and reheat the joint. Same procedure for lead-free, of course. |
#16
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lead free solder
"WangoTango" wrote in message k.net... In article , says... Aside from silver plated or specialty parts in an old scope, is there any harm done in using real solder in a RoHS device? Here's an example. a resistor mounted through-hole has a bad joint. Normal repair just reheat the joint and add more solder. No problem. I've reworked a thousand "RoHS" boards with good 'ol 60/40 and have never had a failure of one of MY joints, or any problems related to them. The stupid part of all of this is, just how are you going to know EXACTLY which lead free solder was used to begin with? There a a lot of formulations, from good 'ol SAC (Tin, silver, copper) to a bunch of alloys with all kinds of weird stuff in them. So, if you grab a spool of SAC and the OEM used a bismuth or zinc alloy, what is going to happen? I just clean up as much of the original solder as possible with solder wick and put down 60/40 and forget about it. I might also add, that we have mixed RoHS and non-RoHS parts for years with no failures due to the tin/lead solder. In fact UPS has destroyed more boards by running them over than any other failure mechanism. In general, based on practical experience, I think I would agree with you. I have also reworked joints on boards that were built with lead-free, but not subject to the European regs, with regular 60/40 lead solder, and I have never knowingly had a problem - at least short term. But who's to say what the long-term effects may be? I mentioned in my original reply about the 'metalurgical wisdom' in this regard. I got this direct from conversations with a Dr Paul somebody-or-other who is an expert in the field and head of the subject for a UK consultancy firm, when I was researching for an article that I was writing on the subject, for a UK trade magazine. He had produced a paper which was available on the 'net, and he was quite adamant that the two solder types should not be mixed in the same joint, because of long term degradation of the integrity of the joint. I've no idea whether this belief was theoretical or based on experimentation, as I did not ask the question. That sort of depth was beyond the scope of the article. On balance, I still feel that the right *overall* practice, is to rework joints with the same basic formulation as they were made with. Obviously, it's not going to be a major problem if a reworked joint in a TV set or whatever, fails down the line because of it having been reworked with the wrong solder type, but I would hate to think that some item that I had repaired finished up in a critical application, and later failed because of me. Remember also, that most of us outside of the USA are in a slightly different position from you folks in that we must not, officially under threat of law, do anything to compromise the RoHS certification of a product. That includes using non RoHS compliant replacement parts, and solder to fix them in with ... :-\ Arfa |
#17
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lead free solder
Arfa Daily wrote in message
... "WangoTango" wrote in message k.net... In article , says... Aside from silver plated or specialty parts in an old scope, is there any harm done in using real solder in a RoHS device? Here's an example. a resistor mounted through-hole has a bad joint. Normal repair just reheat the joint and add more solder. No problem. I've reworked a thousand "RoHS" boards with good 'ol 60/40 and have never had a failure of one of MY joints, or any problems related to them. The stupid part of all of this is, just how are you going to know EXACTLY which lead free solder was used to begin with? There a a lot of formulations, from good 'ol SAC (Tin, silver, copper) to a bunch of alloys with all kinds of weird stuff in them. So, if you grab a spool of SAC and the OEM used a bismuth or zinc alloy, what is going to happen? I just clean up as much of the original solder as possible with solder wick and put down 60/40 and forget about it. I might also add, that we have mixed RoHS and non-RoHS parts for years with no failures due to the tin/lead solder. In fact UPS has destroyed more boards by running them over than any other failure mechanism. In general, based on practical experience, I think I would agree with you. I have also reworked joints on boards that were built with lead-free, but not subject to the European regs, with regular 60/40 lead solder, and I have never knowingly had a problem - at least short term. But who's to say what the long-term effects may be? I mentioned in my original reply about the 'metalurgical wisdom' in this regard. I got this direct from conversations with a Dr Paul somebody-or-other who is an expert in the field and head of the subject for a UK consultancy firm, when I was researching for an article that I was writing on the subject, for a UK trade magazine. He had produced a paper which was available on the 'net, and he was quite adamant that the two solder types should not be mixed in the same joint, because of long term degradation of the integrity of the joint. I've no idea whether this belief was theoretical or based on experimentation, as I did not ask the question. That sort of depth was beyond the scope of the article. On balance, I still feel that the right *overall* practice, is to rework joints with the same basic formulation as they were made with. Obviously, it's not going to be a major problem if a reworked joint in a TV set or whatever, fails down the line because of it having been reworked with the wrong solder type, but I would hate to think that some item that I had repaired finished up in a critical application, and later failed because of me. Remember also, that most of us outside of the USA are in a slightly different position from you folks in that we must not, officially under threat of law, do anything to compromise the RoHS certification of a product. That includes using non RoHS compliant replacement parts, and solder to fix them in with ... :-\ Arfa It is not possible to do "long term" experiments , you have to do accelerated aging and hope it is comparable. Now one way to accelereate aging effects of solder integrity is to subject boards to vibration and cycles of heating and cooling, er come to think of it ...... |
#18
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lead free solder
In article ,
"Arfa Daily" wrote: Remember also, that most of us outside of the USA are in a slightly different position from you folks in that we must not, officially under threat of law, do anything to compromise the RoHS certification of a product. That includes using non RoHS compliant replacement parts, and solder to fix them in with ... I'm just curious, how would this "threat of law" scenario play out? Assume some authority finds out that you've got a roll of 63/37 stashed under the floorboards, (or a bin of old leaded components) and you pull it out on occasion for an illegal repair. Would the cops come? Throw you in the slammer? Would you be facing jail time, a fine, revocation of your business license? I'm reminded of my business neighbor a number of years back, who had a 600 watt amplifier on his CB radio. (Legally, CBs are limited to 4 watts, IIRC) I called the FCC, gave him his name and address. They said, "Sorry, we don't enforce that law. It's too costly." I'm guessing you're in an analogous situation, and that short of hanging a giant neon sign over your shop that says "**** RoHS, we still use lead," you'd never be bothered. But, my guesses are often wrong ... |
#19
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lead free solder
Smitty Two wrote:
In article , "Arfa Daily" wrote: Remember also, that most of us outside of the USA are in a slightly different position from you folks in that we must not, officially under threat of law, do anything to compromise the RoHS certification of a product. That includes using non RoHS compliant replacement parts, and solder to fix them in with ... I'm just curious, how would this "threat of law" scenario play out? Assume some authority finds out that you've got a roll of 63/37 stashed under the floorboards, (or a bin of old leaded components) and you pull it out on occasion for an illegal repair. Would the cops come? Throw you in the slammer? Would you be facing jail time, a fine, revocation of your business license? The usual procedure with laws like this is to find one small operator who has made a mistake and smash him to pieces with the maximum of publicity. It is supposed to frighten the others and is a lot cheaper than chasing them as individuals. It would have been a lot better if the manufacturers in other countries had got together and told the EU that they were going to continue to use lead in their solder. If Europe didn't like it, they could do without the products. (Did I hear somewhere that this was exactly what the Swiss watchmaking industry did - or did I imagine it?) -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk |
#20
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lead free solder
Smitty Two Inscribed thus:
In article , "Arfa Daily" wrote: Remember also, that most of us outside of the USA are in a slightly different position from you folks in that we must not, officially under threat of law, do anything to compromise the RoHS certification of a product. That includes using non RoHS compliant replacement parts, and solder to fix them in with ... I'm just curious, how would this "threat of law" scenario play out? Assume some authority finds out that you've got a roll of 63/37 stashed under the floorboards, (or a bin of old leaded components) and you pull it out on occasion for an illegal repair. Would the cops come? Throw you in the slammer? Would you be facing jail time, a fine, revocation of your business license? I'm reminded of my business neighbor a number of years back, who had a 600 watt amplifier on his CB radio. (Legally, CBs are limited to 4 watts, IIRC) I called the FCC, gave him his name and address. They said, "Sorry, we don't enforce that law. It's too costly." I'm guessing you're in an analogous situation, and that short of hanging a giant neon sign over your shop that says "**** RoHS, we still use lead," you'd never be bothered. Thats about the size of it ! ;-) -- Best Regards: Baron. |
#21
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lead free solder
"Adrian Tuddenham" wrote in message valid.invalid... Smitty Two wrote: In article , "Arfa Daily" wrote: Remember also, that most of us outside of the USA are in a slightly different position from you folks in that we must not, officially under threat of law, do anything to compromise the RoHS certification of a product. That includes using non RoHS compliant replacement parts, and solder to fix them in with ... I'm just curious, how would this "threat of law" scenario play out? Assume some authority finds out that you've got a roll of 63/37 stashed under the floorboards, (or a bin of old leaded components) and you pull it out on occasion for an illegal repair. Would the cops come? Throw you in the slammer? Would you be facing jail time, a fine, revocation of your business license? The usual procedure with laws like this is to find one small operator who has made a mistake and smash him to pieces with the maximum of publicity. It is supposed to frighten the others and is a lot cheaper than chasing them as individuals. It would have been a lot better if the manufacturers in other countries had got together and told the EU that they were going to continue to use lead in their solder. If Europe didn't like it, they could do without the products. (Did I hear somewhere that this was exactly what the Swiss watchmaking industry did - or did I imagine it?) -- ~ Adrian Tuddenham ~ Yes, Smitty. Adrian's analysis is about the measure of the situation. There is nothing illegal about owning leaded solder, and stocking non RoHS compliant parts. There is nothing illegal about using them to repair equipment which is either pre-compliance vintage, or exempt from the regulations. Much equipment that I repair in fact falls into those categories. There is also no requirement for anything that is built not to be intentionally for sale to the general public, to be RoHS compliant. I am reminded of a famous case here in the last few years. The EU mandated that food items offered for sale loose, must be sold in kilos only. A small greengrocer somewhere up north, continued to price and sell his produce in pounds and ounces, as he said that many of his older customers simply did not understand the new-fangled metric measurements, and still preferred to understand the price of a pound of tomatoes, rather than trying to work out the half-kilo price from the whole kilo. As far as I recall, he was also displaying the prices in kilos, but as a secondary figure rather than the primary one. He was descended on by the local weights and measures department, along with the police, and was arrested for his crime. He was subjected to a full blown 'show' trial and was actually ultimately jailed for his efforts because he rejected the findings of the court, and refused to pay the fine. He fought the courts through the appeal process for some time afterwards, but the stress of it all brought on a massive heart attack, and he died aged just 39 ... He had huge, and I mean huge, support from the public for making his stand, but it made not a jot of difference. The authorities obviously decided right from the start that they were going to go after this guy, and prosecute him to the full extent of the ridiculous law forced on us unconstitutionally, by the EU. See http://www.metricmartyrs.co.uk/Home/...4/Default.aspx picked at random from many hundreds of web entries. So, Smitty, that's what's meant theoretically - and sometimes in reality - by "under threat of law", and I sure as hell am not going to put myself in the EU firing line by anything that I do professionally. I have no desire to become the first 'Solder Martyr' ... :-| Arfa |
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lead free solder
On 27/05/2010 10:02, Arfa Daily wrote:
I have no desire to become the first 'Solder Martyr' ... :-| Lead soldier? |
#23
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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lead free solder
In article ,
"Arfa Daily" wrote: snip See http://www.metricmartyrs.co.uk/Home/.../64/Default.as px picked at random from many hundreds of web entries. So, Smitty, that's what's meant theoretically - and sometimes in reality - by "under threat of law", and I sure as hell am not going to put myself in the EU firing line by anything that I do professionally. I have no desire to become the first 'Solder Martyr' ... :-| Arfa Wow, that is an awful story. Anyone working on the movie yet? |
#24
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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lead free solder
Baron wrote:
Smitty Two Inscribed thus: In article , "Arfa Daily" wrote: Remember also, that most of us outside of the USA are in a slightly different position from you folks in that we must not, officially under threat of law, do anything to compromise the RoHS certification of a product. That includes using non RoHS compliant replacement parts, and solder to fix them in with ... I'm just curious, how would this "threat of law" scenario play out? Assume some authority finds out that you've got a roll of 63/37 stashed under the floorboards, (or a bin of old leaded components) and you pull it out on occasion for an illegal repair. Would the cops come? Throw you in the slammer? Would you be facing jail time, a fine, revocation of your business license? I'm reminded of my business neighbor a number of years back, who had a 600 watt amplifier on his CB radio. (Legally, CBs are limited to 4 watts, IIRC) I called the FCC, gave him his name and address. They said, "Sorry, we don't enforce that law. It's too costly." I'm guessing you're in an analogous situation, and that short of hanging a giant neon sign over your shop that says "**** RoHS, we still use lead," you'd never be bothered. Thats about the size of it ! ;-) haha. make sure that neon sign has leaded glass, is pumped full of mercury and uses a non GFCI transformer with a really low power factor. |
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