Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

Hi!

What should I use?

How about a cheap tape recorder? You could pick up a battery operated
unit very inexpensively secondhand (and for not much more brand new).
It's cheap, simple and a (still) large installed base of tape players
means you can play the recording almost anywhere.

What you really want to do is look at the microphone you are using. I
think you'll want a microphone with an omnidirectional pickup pattern
and the ability to pick up sounds from afar.

Unidirectional and "noise canceling" microphones are probably not
going to work well for this application.

William

"Robert Macy" wrote in message
...
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?




What exactly are you trying to achieve?
If it is some kind of evidence that your neighbour is making noise, how are
you going to tell from the recording exactly how loud the noise is?

Chances are the spillage is actually very quiet, which is why you have not
so far achieved a good result.

On Mar 10, 1:14*pm, "William R. Walsh" wrote:
Hi!

What should I use?

How about a cheap tape recorder? You could pick up a battery operated
unit very inexpensively secondhand (and for not much more brand new).
It's cheap, simple and a (still) large installed base of tape players
means you can play the recording almost anywhere.

What you really want to do is look at the microphone you are using. I
think you'll want a microphone with an omnidirectional pickup pattern
and the ability to pick up sounds from afar.

Unidirectional and "noise canceling" microphones are probably not
going to work well for this application.

William

Thank you for your reply. I fear you are correct that the front end
is most important - the mike and preamp.

In defense of digital vs mechanical, the Sony has 1 1/2 hr of
'perfect' MP3 and more than 340 hours of plain recording [even speech
recognition software] and the design is supposed to be for individual,
conference room, or that tiny sound from the corner. However, the
playback sounds more like excessive tape hiss. My wife said 'typical
sony' ...she once had a walkman that was no end of trouble. Also,
heads up, comes with CD Sound Editor software and a DVD with Speech
Recognition SW, both will only install on OS of Win2000 or better.

As you may know, picking up high frequency is no problem so this
recorder apparently shifts everything into the treble. can't hear
thumps and bumps, but the slightest scritch/scritch is gangbusters.
For that reason may not be the right choice.

Apologies for not being scientific, so try again. Apparently the Sony
ICD SX700D is inadequate in the low frequency spectrum, below 300Hz,
probably deems that not very important because that's adequate for
speech. However, the higher spectrum where ruslting of paper resides,
the recorder appears to enhance that sound bandwidth. As a result, I
fear the unit will not fulfill the function I need.

I just realized I was playing the sound back using the built in 1 inch
diameter speaker. Duh! Will try using earphones with better fidelity
to see if the lower spectrum exists. I also have the capability of
storing as a 16 bit .wav file, so I can do some very esoteric
manipulations using a Matlab clone, octave. I'll see if I can find
flatness of the recording system and the noise floor of the recorder.
At least I'll find the noise density coefficient.

Robert

On Mar 10, 8:46*pm, Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

As mentioned above, a tape deck is cheap and effective. A second hand
stereo one (be sure to get one with mic inputs) and a couple of good
mikes will knock the socks off any mp3 type device, for the same or
less money.
see
http://www.vintagecassette.com/
for specs.
-B

"b" wrote in message
...
On Mar 10, 8:46 pm, Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

As mentioned above, a tape deck is cheap and effective. A second hand
stereo one (be sure to get one with mic inputs) and a couple of good
mikes will knock the socks off any mp3 type device, for the same or
less money.
see
http://www.vintagecassette.com/
for specs.
-B


Why on earth would anyone recommend buying a last century Cassette Deck, the
OP already has a digital recorder capable of 16 bit 44.1k recordings, the
same quality of CD.

You might be able to improve the recordings by using a better quality
external mic plugged into the mic input jack and placed accordingly.

I suspect though that the problem is not the equipment, but rather the
unrealistic expectations of the OP.

Hi!

Thank you for your reply. I fear you are correct that the front end
is most important - the mike and preamp.

It's going to be a good starting point. But almost any portable cassette
recorder I've used did a good job of picking up sound from all the room.
It's a compromise of course...the more room noise you pick up, the less
chance you have of being able to focus on a specific source.

In defense of digital vs mechanical, the Sony has 1 1/2 hr of
'perfect' MP3 and more than 340 hours of plain recording

A tape won't match that, but my thought is to wait until the noise occurs
and start recording immediately. Announce the time of day and then just let
it roll. Or get a tape recorder with voice operated recording. I have a
Realistic Minisette 20 here right now that does this with two sensitivity
levels. Its built in speaker is nothing to write home about, yet the
recordings are pretty good. I'd guess it was made before the heyday of
microcassettes (and handily beats those in terms of audio quality).

[even speech recognition software]

Which would probably work from a tape recording as well, although you're
likely to be able to do a much better job by transcribing it yourself if the
need arises. Speech recognition is still an imprecise concept.

I just realized I was playing the sound back using the built in 1 inch
diameter speaker. Duh! Will try using earphones with better fidelity
to see if the lower spectrum exists.

Consider going further than that -- play the unit into your stereo receiver.

so I can do some very esoteric manipulations using a Matlab clone, octave.

While that sounds very interesting, why do you want to do that? It sounds
like a lot of work to me, and I don't understand the value of the outcome.

William

Hi!

Why on earth would anyone recommend buying a last century Cassette
Deck, the OP already has a digital recorder capable of 16 bit 44.1k
recordings, the same quality of CD.

Because it's cheap, easy and simple?

You don't need ultra-high-fidelity to capture a record of someone's making a
disturbingly loud amount of sound. The cheap point is rendered moot by the
presence of the more expensive recorder, yet the simplicity and still
massive installed base of playback equipment can't be argued. Plus, the tape
recorder has the advantage in cost--if something happens to it, you aren't
out a fortune!

William

William R. Walsh wrote:
Hi!

Why on earth would anyone recommend buying a last century Cassette
Deck, the OP already has a digital recorder capable of 16 bit 44.1k
recordings, the same quality of CD.

Because it's cheap, easy and simple?

You don't need ultra-high-fidelity to capture a record of someone's making a
disturbingly loud amount of sound. The cheap point is rendered moot by the
presence of the more expensive recorder, yet the simplicity and still
massive installed base of playback equipment can't be argued. Plus, the tape
recorder has the advantage in cost--if something happens to it, you aren't
out a fortune!

William


Also for the purpose of the OP he is better off, using an old
recorder, because the new ones have the nasty habit of "equalizing"
the mic input.
As he needs a record of sound level, that is not a very good idea.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:46:53 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy
wrote:

Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

Use a computah. Scanner recorder will only record when there is
something worth hearing and doesn't gobble disk space:
http://www.davee.com/scanrec/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Sjouke Burry" wrote in message
...
William R. Walsh wrote:
Hi!

Why on earth would anyone recommend buying a last century Cassette
Deck, the OP already has a digital recorder capable of 16 bit 44.1k
recordings, the same quality of CD.

Because it's cheap, easy and simple?

You don't need ultra-high-fidelity to capture a record of someone's
making a
disturbingly loud amount of sound. The cheap point is rendered moot by
the
presence of the more expensive recorder, yet the simplicity and still
massive installed base of playback equipment can't be argued. Plus, the
tape
recorder has the advantage in cost--if something happens to it, you
aren't
out a fortune!

William


Also for the purpose of the OP he is better off, using an old
recorder, because the new ones have the nasty habit of "equalizing"
the mic input.
As he needs a record of sound level, that is not a very good idea.


Rubbish. Once his CD quality recording is made, with what he has at the
moment, it can then easily be transferred to a PC via USB into free editing
software like Audacity, where you can do all the equalising, level shifting,
noise reduction and analysis you like. You can't do much of that with a
Cassette Player.

Robert Macy wrote:

Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:46:53 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy
wrote:

Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.


Why? A recording would prove nothing. You need to measure sound
levels, not record the sounds. A sensitive microphone would pick up
the smallest of sounds so there would be no way to determine that the
neighbor's noise/sounds were a problem or not. As well, what does your
lease say on noise, and his? If it is not covered, prepair for a long
hard time.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

I'd use the threat of moving out at the end of my lease.

On Mar 11, 1:38*am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker. *

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? *If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. *The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. *Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

I did notice that the low level sounds using this mike/preamp of the
Sony appear to be sitting around the last 5 to 10 levels of
digitization. I did a 'quiet' recording and was going to do a
histogram to find out. But there was just enough room noise to
prevent that. there's a spike around 100Hz and a lesser one again
near 200Hz, but don't know where that's coming from. Too high for air/
fan noise? two PC's in the room were running. on 60Hz mains.

Naive question: does quantization cause hiss? only distortion?

Not sure, but removing the low frequency spikes the noise spectral
density does appear reasonably flat, except for the what appears as 1/
f noise starting to come up around 50Hz, but who hears that, right?

Robert

On Mar 11, 12:35*am, "Gareth Magennis"
wrote:
"Sjouke Burry" wrote in message

...





William R. Walsh wrote:
Hi!

Why on earth would anyone recommend buying a last century Cassette
Deck, the *OP already has a digital recorder capable of 16 bit 44.1k
recordings, the same quality of CD.

Because it's cheap, easy and simple?

You don't need ultra-high-fidelity to capture a record of someone's
making a
disturbingly loud amount of sound. The cheap point is rendered moot by
the
presence of the more expensive recorder, yet the simplicity and still
massive installed base of playback equipment can't be argued. Plus, the
tape
recorder has the advantage in cost--if something happens to it, you
aren't
out a fortune!

William

Also for the purpose of the OP he is better off, using an old
recorder, because the new ones have the nasty habit of "equalizing"
the mic input.
As he needs a record of sound level, that is not a very good idea.

Rubbish. * Once his CD quality recording is made, with what he has at the
moment, it can then easily be transferred to a PC via USB into free editing
software like Audacity, where you can do all the equalising, level shifting,
noise reduction and analysis you like. * You can't do much of that with a
Cassette Player.

Will check out Audacity, thaks for the reference.

On Mar 11, 5:08*am, PeterD wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:46:53 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy

wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Why? A recording would prove nothing. You need to measure sound
levels, not record the sounds. A sensitive microphone would pick up
the smallest of sounds so there would be no way to determine that the
neighbor's noise/sounds were a problem or not. As well, what does your
lease say on noise, and his? If it is not covered, prepair for a long
hard time.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

I'd use the threat of moving out at the end of my lease.

We have our TV on while this is going on, that makes a great reference
and/or talking and living normally as a comparison.

Lease says "no tenant can operate a TV, Musical Device, of Computer
Sound System in a manner that disturbs another tenant" no hours of
operation, no arbitrary interpretation. That's why we moved in.

I'm a firm believer in victims should not take action, perpetrators
should.

if our landlord cannot, or will not, provide quiet enjoyment, no
waiting for end of lease, they have failed, and now must pay for move
and all costs.

This yet another example of a question that should have had a single
response, with the thread ending at that point.

You do not need a recorder, except perhaps to make a record of what is
disturbing you. You need to borrow a sound-level meter to measure how loud
the disturbance is. Otherwise, there is no good reason for the management to
believe you.

----- The Lady from Philadelphia

On Mar 11, 10:58*am, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:
This yet another example of a question that should have had a single
response, with the thread ending at that point.

You do not need a recorder, except perhaps to make a record of what is
disturbing you. You need to borrow a sound-level meter to measure how loud
the disturbance is. Otherwise, there is no good reason for the management to
believe you.

* * *----- The Lady from Philadelphia

Well Put!!!

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38*am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker. *

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? *If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. *The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. *Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.



Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.


The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

....only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.


Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.


--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Excellent advice. Listen to the man...

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.


Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.


Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.


Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282


If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

On Mar 11, 10:15*am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
On Mar 11, 1:38*am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker. *

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? *If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. *The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. *Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. *Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). *The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. *It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. *The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) *Its loudness
2) *What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) *Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.



Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? *the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. *Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Excellent information, thank you.

On Mar 11, 10:44*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? *If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. *The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. *Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. *Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). *The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. *It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them..
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. *The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) *Its loudness
2) *What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) *Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? *the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. *Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

* *Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

* *Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Thank you for the URLs.

I wonder if what doesn't record is loud enough to activate it.

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 10:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Thank you for the URLs.

I wonder if what doesn't record is loud enough to activate it.


The sound meter has an output jack after the preamp to let you either
record the signal being measured, or to look at it on a scope. Other
than the plastic nose piece and yellow knob, it looks quite a bit like
my 20+ year old Radio Shack meter.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

On 11 mar, 17:33, Robert Macy wrote:

Lease says "no tenant can operate a TV, Musical Device, of Computer
Sound System in a manner that disturbs another tenant" *no hours of
operation, no arbitrary interpretation. *That's why we moved in.

I'm a firm believer in victims should not take action, perpetrators
should.

if our landlord cannot, or will not, provide quiet enjoyment, no
waiting for end of lease, they have failed, and now must pay for move
and all costs.

This all sounds a bit hasty to me. Have you actually tried
a) talking to those making the noise, who may not for all you know ,
be fully aware of the nuisance they cause, and b) talking to the
landlord about it?
If so, what was their response(s)?
usually these things can be settled with quiet but firm words in the
right ear, rather than jumping to collecting 'evidence' and geting
into legal action.
Just my .02 worth

-B

In article ,
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?


Higher end digital sound recorders seem to not be a Buy More/office
supply/Radio Shack type item. But I've seen them in the local electric
guitar store's flyers. A bit pricier than the Sony, $150-$300 and
more. Also probably a good place to get a better than average quality
microphone. (Also, there's probably a store or two in any major metro
area that specializes in pro and semi-pro video production equipment,
maybe even rentals).

Or maybe Radio Shack still sells their sound level meter,
(or Frys, or one of the mail order electronic instrument outfits).
Combine that with a video record what it sounds like during
of the events.

Mark Zenier
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:33:34 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy
wrote:

On Mar 11, 5:08*am, PeterD wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:46:53 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy

wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Why? A recording would prove nothing. You need to measure sound
levels, not record the sounds. A sensitive microphone would pick up
the smallest of sounds so there would be no way to determine that the
neighbor's noise/sounds were a problem or not. As well, what does your
lease say on noise, and his? If it is not covered, prepair for a long
hard time.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

I'd use the threat of moving out at the end of my lease.

We have our TV on while this is going on, that makes a great reference
and/or talking and living normally as a comparison.

Lease says "no tenant can operate a TV, Musical Device, of Computer
Sound System in a manner that disturbs another tenant" no hours of
operation, no arbitrary interpretation. That's why we moved in.

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.


I'm a firm believer in victims should not take action, perpetrators
should.

Then what are you doing here? You are asking how to take action, and
saying you don't think it is necessary. I'm confused.


if our landlord cannot, or will not, provide quiet enjoyment, no
waiting for end of lease, they have failed, and now must pay for move
and all costs.

Is that in the lease? Padwan, you have a lot to learn in this life.

On Mar 11, 4:19*pm, b wrote:
On 11 mar, 17:33, Robert Macy wrote:

Lease says "no tenant can operate a TV, Musical Device, of Computer
Sound System in a manner that disturbs another tenant" *no hours of
operation, no arbitrary interpretation. *That's why we moved in.

I'm a firm believer in victims should not take action, perpetrators
should.

if our landlord cannot, or will not, provide quiet enjoyment, no
waiting for end of lease, they have failed, and now must pay for move
and all costs.

This all sounds a bit hasty to me. Have you actually tried
*a) talking to those making the noise, who may not for all you know ,
be fully aware of the nuisance they cause, and b) talking to the
landlord about it?
If so, what was their response(s)?
usually these things can be settled with quiet but firm words in the
right ear, rather than jumping to collecting 'evidence' and *geting
into legal action.
Just my .02 worth

-B

Appreciate your approach, but all that has been already exhausted.

PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.


A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would. One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

On Mar 12, 6:34*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

* *A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would. *One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Good ideas.

Does the dBC spec follow sound pressure?

Or, does it follow the Fletcher-Munson Curve?

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 12, 6:34 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would. One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Good ideas.

Does the dBC spec follow sound pressure?

Or, does it follow the Fletcher-Munson Curve?


There is a little information he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-weighting#C


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

On Mar 12, 11:12*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 12, 6:34 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

* *A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would. *One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Good ideas.

Does the dBC spec follow sound pressure?

Or, does it follow the Fletcher-Munson Curve?

* *There is a little information he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-weighting#C

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Excellent site!

That verifies the C-weighted curve extends flat to lower frequencies.

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 12, 11:12 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 12, 6:34 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would. One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Good ideas.

Does the dBC spec follow sound pressure?

Or, does it follow the Fletcher-Munson Curve?

There is a little information he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-weighting#C

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Excellent site!

That verifies the C-weighted curve extends flat to lower frequencies.


Good luck 'Squelching' them. ;-)


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

On Mar 11, 11:44*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? *If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. *The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. *Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. *Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). *The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. *It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them..
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. *The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) *Its loudness
2) *What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) *Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? *the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. *Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

* *Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

* *Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'




Thank you for this URL !!!

Received from Harbor Freight within 5 days of order. Nice product.

The output is from the microphone/preamp, and not meter display. If
it had been meter display, could have borrowed one of those chart
recorders with time of day, and marked which ones are from offending
tenant.

VERY INTERESTING meter peaking measurements:

TV, set at our normal listening level = 56
TV, set for poor sound films, a bit uncomfortable = 58
Conversation above TV = 60 to 62
Heavy diesel trucks outside = 62
Water faucet full output = 66
Bathroom exhaust fan = 68
Roaring motorcycle (also outside) = 68

Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60
to 64
Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to
70+, offscale

the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through
4:40am. You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level.

So, thank you for this meter. It provides evidence supporting our
claim that these sounds are obtrusive and not just a subjective
impression, nor based upon a 'sensitivity' to sounds.

Robert Macy wrote:

[...]
Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60
to 64
Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to
70+, offscale

the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through
4:40am. You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level.

Hells bells! Have you spoken to the other tenants about this?

Noise levels like that during the night must have woken most of the
immediate neighbours.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Thank you for this URL !!!


You're welcome.


Received from Harbor Freight within 5 days of order. Nice product.

The output is from the microphone/preamp, and not meter display. If
it had been meter display, could have borrowed one of those chart
recorders with time of day, and marked which ones are from offending
tenant.

VERY INTERESTING meter peaking measurements:

TV, set at our normal listening level = 56
TV, set for poor sound films, a bit uncomfortable = 58
Conversation above TV = 60 to 62
Heavy diesel trucks outside = 62
Water faucet full output = 66
Bathroom exhaust fan = 68
Roaring motorcycle (also outside) = 68

Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60
to 64
Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to
70+, offscale

the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through
4:40am. You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level.

So, thank you for this meter. It provides evidence supporting our
claim that these sounds are obtrusive and not just a subjective
impression, nor based upon a 'sensitivity' to sounds.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

On Mar 26, 11:48*am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:

[...]

Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60
to 64
Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to
70+, offscale

the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through
4:40am. *You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level.

Hells bells! *Have you spoken to the other tenants about this?

Noise levels like that during the night must have woken most of the
immediate neighbours.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Actually, no one else is greatly affected. Flats are 'sound proofed'
causing sound to only go vertically. Thus from top floor down into
our flat. Absolutely barely hear anything in the hallway outside
origin flat.

Sometimes the tenants below us have pounded on their ceiling (our
floor), evidently thinking it's coming from us. And, that really
catches us in the middle.

According to management, no one else has complained. But that always
strikes me like a customer service complaint response, "No one else
has that problem." ...ok

I did find a tenant adjacent to the offending flat that claimed to
hear, and properly characterize the origin, "sounds like throwing a
ball around the room" and promise to call management, but weasels is
weasels, it never happened. In spite of 3 requests and 3 promises to
complain.

Talk about serrendipitous timing. Just today caught part of a Korean
TV KBS show called 3 Days. In the segment I caught, a Sr. Program
Director corrects a rooky PD who is editing a piece to be shown later
that night. The rooky PD had used the phrase "irritating deciBel
level" and the Sr PD corrected him saying, "That's confusing. Be
specific. Just, say 70 deciBels." They think 70 dB is irritating! We
get hit with over 72 to 74 dB from the tenant above!

On Mar 11, 11:44*am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? *If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. *The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. *Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. *Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). *The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. *It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them..
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. *The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) *Its loudness
2) *What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) *Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? *the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. *Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

* *Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

* *Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

ARRGGG

DISCONTINUED!!!

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

ARRGGG

DISCONTINUED!!!


It may just be out of stock. They pull a listing when something isn't
availible. It has happened to me several times, then I walk into the
local store a few weeks or months later and they are back in stock.
Also, they change the stock number if they change suppliers.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

http://www.flickr.com/photos/materrell/

On Apr 8, 12:16*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? *If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. *The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. *Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. *Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). *The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. *It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. *The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) *Its loudness
2) *What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) *Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? *the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. *Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

* *Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

* *Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

ARRGGG

DISCONTINUED!!!

It may just be out of stock. They pull a listing when something isn't
availible. *It has happened to me several times, then I walk into the
local store a few weeks or months later and they are back in stock.
Also, they change the stock number if they change suppliers.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

http://www.flickr.com/photos/materrell/

I'll check later. I was surprised at the $14+ price. I can't even
get boxes w battery compartments, let alone knobs, switches, panel
meters, etc for those kinds of prices.

But, everything from Cen-Tech looked extremely low priced, like
everything is discontinued.

Examples, laser level for $49, non-contact thermometers for $22 etc