http://i44.tinypic.com/357lqb8.jpg

Installed a new CCFL tube. Was very careful (so I thought) about R&R'ing the
tube. You see the result on power-on.

Could this be a bad cable or connection? Or does it look like a damaged
display?

Thanks.--
Al, the usual

Usual Suspect wrote:

http://i44.tinypic.com/357lqb8.jpg

Installed a new CCFL tube. Was very careful (so I thought) about R&R'ing the
tube. You see the result on power-on.

Could this be a bad cable or connection? Or does it look like a damaged
display?

Either.

Graham

Either.

Simplest way to confirm? Any options other than to scope each line on that
*tiny* flex pc cable?

Thanks.
--
Al, the usual

Usual Suspect wrote:
http://i44.tinypic.com/357lqb8.jpg

Installed a new CCFL tube. Was very careful (so I thought) about R&R'ing the
tube. You see the result on power-on.

Could this be a bad cable or connection? Or does it look like a damaged
display?

Could be either. Look for the mylar cables with connectors on the short
edge of the panel & reseat them. If you've torn one of them, you're screwed.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Usual Suspect wrote:
Either.

Simplest way to confirm? Any options other than to scope each line on that
*tiny* flex pc cable?

Scoping it won't tell you anything useful. The fact that the lines run
the width of the screen tells you that the problem is with the
horizontal drivers, which will be on one of the short edges of the
panel. Hopefully, you've loosened one of the mylar film cable connectors
(very easy to do while working on a panel), & reseating them will fix it.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Could be either. Look for the mylar cables with connectors on the short
edge of the panel & reseat them. If you've torn one of them, you're screwed.

No torn cables. Reseating = no joy.
--
Al, the usual

I'd say it's 95%+ a defective LCD panel.

Eeyore wrote:

Usual Suspect wrote:

http://i44.tinypic.com/357lqb8.jpg

Installed a new CCFL tube. Was very careful (so I thought) about R&R'ing the
tube. You see the result on power-on.

Could this be a bad cable or connection? Or does it look like a damaged
display?

Either.

Graham

Barry Watzman wrote:

I'd say it's 95%+ a defective LCD panel.

Sadly probable.

Graham

Usual Suspect wrote:

Could be either. Look for the mylar cables with connectors on the short
edge of the panel & reseat them. If you've torn one of them, you're screwed.

No torn cables. Reseating = no joy.

Just a quick question. Did you take anti-static protection measures when working
on the laptop ? The simplest way is only to wear cotton ( as I do ) and not have a
carpet containing synthetic fibres but adding a grounded ESD mat and wrist strap
is the approved way.

Graham

Usual Suspect wrote:
Could be either. Look for the mylar cables with connectors on the short
edge of the panel & reseat them. If you've torn one of them, you're screwed.

No torn cables. Reseating = no joy.

Damn. Sounds like you've managed to zap a couple of the driver chips.
Are you 100% sure that you located all the connectors?

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Eeyore wrote:

Usual Suspect wrote:

Could be either. Look for the mylar cables with connectors on the short
edge of the panel & reseat them. If you've torn one of them, you're screwed.
No torn cables. Reseating = no joy.

Just a quick question. Did you take anti-static protection measures when working
on the laptop ? The simplest way is only to wear cotton ( as I do ) and not have a
carpet containing synthetic fibres but adding a grounded ESD mat and wrist strap
is the approved way.

Yeah. Assuming that he found all the connectors, zapped driver chips
seem to be the likely cause.


--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Larter wrote:

Usual Suspect wrote:
Could be either. Look for the mylar cables with connectors on the short
edge of the panel & reseat them. If you've torn one of them, you're screwed.

No torn cables. Reseating = no joy.

Damn. Sounds like you've managed to zap a couple of the driver chips.

And there's no telling if they're on the display or the driver chip on the mobo.
Could be either end.

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

Bob Larter wrote:

Usual Suspect wrote:
Could be either. Look for the mylar cables with connectors on the short
edge of the panel & reseat them. If you've torn one of them, you're screwed.
No torn cables. Reseating = no joy.
Damn. Sounds like you've managed to zap a couple of the driver chips.

And there's no telling if they're on the display or the driver chip on the mobo.
Could be either end.

No, they'll be the h-driver chips on the LCD panel for sure. The
symptoms are classic.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Larter wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Bob Larter wrote:
Usual Suspect wrote:

Could be either. Look for the mylar cables with connectors on the short
edge of the panel & reseat them. If you've torn one of them, you're screwed.
No torn cables. Reseating = no joy.
Damn. Sounds like you've managed to zap a couple of the driver chips.

And there's no telling if they're on the display or the driver chip on the mobo.
Could be either end.

No, they'll be the h-driver chips on the LCD panel for sure. The
symptoms are classic.

Fair enough. I defer to your experience.

Graham

Usual Suspect wrote:
http://i44.tinypic.com/357lqb8.jpg

Installed a new CCFL tube. Was very careful (so I thought) about R&R'ing the
tube. You see the result on power-on.

Could this be a bad cable or connection? Or does it look like a damaged
display?

I've just thought of another possibility: If there any chance that the
conductive rubber strips between the LCD glass & the driver chips got
displaced while you were changing the CCFL? Or that you didn't bend the
metal tabs down hard enough when you closed the panel back up?

If so, it's fiddly, but it is fixable. Given that you're otherwise going
to have to toss the panel, it might be worth a look.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

The most common cause of lines or bands in an LCD display is not blown
driver chips, it is failed ribbon cable connections between the board
with the driver chips going to the actual LCD glass. The bonding of the
ribbon cable to the glass itself fails.

Bob Larter wrote:
Eeyore wrote:

Bob Larter wrote:

Usual Suspect wrote:
Could be either. Look for the mylar cables with connectors on the
short
edge of the panel & reseat them. If you've torn one of them, you're
screwed.
No torn cables. Reseating = no joy.
Damn. Sounds like you've managed to zap a couple of the driver chips.

And there's no telling if they're on the display or the driver chip on
the mobo.
Could be either end.

No, they'll be the h-driver chips on the LCD panel for sure. The
symptoms are classic.

Barry Watzman wrote:
The most common cause of lines or bands in an LCD display is not blown
driver chips, it is failed ribbon cable connections between the board
with the driver chips going to the actual LCD glass. The bonding of the
ribbon cable to the glass itself fails.

It amounts to the same thing, & both are equally unfixable.


--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Larter wrote:

Barry Watzman wrote:
The most common cause of lines or bands in an LCD display is not blown
driver chips, it is failed ribbon cable connections between the board
with the driver chips going to the actual LCD glass. The bonding of the
ribbon cable to the glass itself fails.

It amounts to the same thing, & both are equally unfixable.


They are routinely repaired by places that refurbish large numbers of
cell phones. They replace defective or damaged LCD, and reuse the
cable.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Bob Larter wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:
The most common cause of lines or bands in an LCD display is not blown
driver chips, it is failed ribbon cable connections between the board
with the driver chips going to the actual LCD glass. The bonding of the
ribbon cable to the glass itself fails.
It amounts to the same thing, & both are equally unfixable.


They are routinely repaired by places that refurbish large numbers of
cell phones. They replace defective or damaged LCD, and reuse the
cable.

It's a bit different for a full size screen. ;^)

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Larter wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Bob Larter wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:
The most common cause of lines or bands in an LCD display is not blown
driver chips, it is failed ribbon cable connections between the board
with the driver chips going to the actual LCD glass. The bonding of the
ribbon cable to the glass itself fails.
It amounts to the same thing, & both are equally unfixable.


They are routinely repaired by places that refurbish large numbers of
cell phones. They replace defective or damaged LCD, and reuse the
cable.

It's a bit different for a full size screen. ;^)


It can be done, with the right equipment.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Yes, it can be done (rebonding the cables that go between the driver
circuit board within an LCD panel to the actual LCD glass), but it the
equipment required is relatively rare and exotic (a laptop with a full
size screen is not the same as a cell phone with a few square inches of
screen). The number of places that do it is small enough, and the cost
is high enough, that as a PRACTICAL matter it is normally not a
realistic option.


Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Bob Larter wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Bob Larter wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:
The most common cause of lines or bands in an LCD display is not blown
driver chips, it is failed ribbon cable connections between the board
with the driver chips going to the actual LCD glass. The bonding of the
ribbon cable to the glass itself fails.
It amounts to the same thing, & both are equally unfixable.

They are routinely repaired by places that refurbish large numbers of
cell phones. They replace defective or damaged LCD, and reuse the
cable.
It's a bit different for a full size screen. ;^)


It can be done, with the right equipment.

Barry Watzman wrote:

Yes, it can be done (rebonding the cables that go between the driver
circuit board within an LCD panel to the actual LCD glass), but it the
equipment required is relatively rare and exotic (a laptop with a full
size screen is not the same as a cell phone with a few square inches of
screen). The number of places that do it is small enough, and the cost
is high enough, that as a PRACTICAL matter it is normally not a
realistic option.


When I talked to a local company I was told they had to purchase used
equipment that had been used for laptop sized displays. The techs I know
that worked there told ne the same thing. So you are telling me they
are all liars?

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:
Yes, it can be done (rebonding the cables that go between the driver
circuit board within an LCD panel to the actual LCD glass), but it the
equipment required is relatively rare and exotic (a laptop with a full
size screen is not the same as a cell phone with a few square inches of
screen). The number of places that do it is small enough, and the cost
is high enough, that as a PRACTICAL matter it is normally not a
realistic option.


When I talked to a local company I was told they had to purchase used
equipment that had been used for laptop sized displays. The techs I know
that worked there told ne the same thing. So you are telling me they
are all liars?

Arguing with Barry is like clapping with one hand...........

You talked to ONE company. And how much do they charge for such a
repair? A few years ago new laptop LCD panels were $300 to $450. Now
many of them ... full size 15" panels for current model new laptops ...
are $60 to $80, brand new. Rebonding of the cables that connect the LCD
glass to the driver circuit boards is very rarely done. I didn't say
never, but I will say low single digit percentages (of bad panels) ever
get this "fix".


Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:
Yes, it can be done (rebonding the cables that go between the driver
circuit board within an LCD panel to the actual LCD glass), but it the
equipment required is relatively rare and exotic (a laptop with a full
size screen is not the same as a cell phone with a few square inches of
screen). The number of places that do it is small enough, and the cost
is high enough, that as a PRACTICAL matter it is normally not a
realistic option.


When I talked to a local company I was told they had to purchase used
equipment that had been used for laptop sized displays. The techs I know
that worked there told ne the same thing. So you are telling me they
are all liars?

On Wed, 06 May 2009 01:37:56 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Barry Watzman wrote:

Yes, it can be done (rebonding the cables that go between the driver
circuit board within an LCD panel to the actual LCD glass), but it the
equipment required is relatively rare and exotic (a laptop with a full
size screen is not the same as a cell phone with a few square inches of
screen). The number of places that do it is small enough, and the cost
is high enough, that as a PRACTICAL matter it is normally not a
realistic option.


When I talked to a local company I was told they had to purchase used
equipment that had been used for laptop sized displays. The techs I know
that worked there told ne the same thing. So you are telling me they
are all liars?

Well, since you both are saying the same thing: "Special equipment
required" what's the problem?

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Bob Larter wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Bob Larter wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:
The most common cause of lines or bands in an LCD display is not blown
driver chips, it is failed ribbon cable connections between the board
with the driver chips going to the actual LCD glass. The bonding of the
ribbon cable to the glass itself fails.
It amounts to the same thing, & both are equally unfixable.

They are routinely repaired by places that refurbish large numbers of
cell phones. They replace defective or damaged LCD, and reuse the
cable.
It's a bit different for a full size screen. ;^)


It can be done, with the right equipment.

Hell, you can do pretty much anything with the right equipment. Whether
it's economical or not is a whole different story. ;^)

In this case, if tweaking the connectors doesn't work, he's pretty much
SOL, unfortunately.


--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Barry Watzman wrote:
You talked to ONE company. And how much do they charge for such a
repair? A few years ago new laptop LCD panels were $300 to $450. Now
many of them ... full size 15" panels for current model new laptops ...
are $60 to $80, brand new. Rebonding of the cables that connect the LCD
glass to the driver circuit boards is very rarely done. I didn't say
never, but I will say low single digit percentages (of bad panels) ever
get this "fix".

nods I spent about 5 years fixing laptops for a living, & teaching
other techs how to fix them. I've never yet seen a case when it's been
cheaper to fix a buggered[0] LCD panel than to replace the panel.

I'm not saying that it can't be done, just that it's not economical to
do so in any reasonably equipped workshop.

[0] ie; Either H-drive or V-drive dead spots that weren't bad connections.


--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

PeterD wrote:
On Wed, 06 May 2009 01:37:56 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Barry Watzman wrote:
Yes, it can be done (rebonding the cables that go between the driver
circuit board within an LCD panel to the actual LCD glass), but it the
equipment required is relatively rare and exotic (a laptop with a full
size screen is not the same as a cell phone with a few square inches of
screen). The number of places that do it is small enough, and the cost
is high enough, that as a PRACTICAL matter it is normally not a
realistic option.

When I talked to a local company I was told they had to purchase used
equipment that had been used for laptop sized displays. The techs I know
that worked there told ne the same thing. So you are telling me they
are all liars?

Well, since you both are saying the same thing: "Special equipment
required" what's the problem?

Yes, exactly.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Larter wrote:

Hell, you can do pretty much anything with the right equipment. Whether
it's economical or not is a whole different story. ;^)


It is, when they ship thousands of refurbished cell phones per week.
For a one off, no, it isn't worth trying.


In this case, if tweaking the connectors doesn't work, he's pretty much
SOL, unfortunately.


He can take a chance on a dead, 'for parts on' ebay find of the same
model.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Barry Watzman wrote:

You talked to ONE company. And how much do they charge for such a
repair? A few years ago new laptop LCD panels were $300 to $450. Now
many of them ... full size 15" panels for current model new laptops ...
are $60 to $80, brand new. Rebonding of the cables that connect the LCD
glass to the driver circuit boards is very rarely done. I didn't say
never, but I will say low single digit percentages (of bad panels) ever
get this "fix".


Yawn. It is a matter of scale, which is something that someone with
a small mind will never understand.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

GG WILLIKERS wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:
Yes, it can be done (rebonding the cables that go between the driver
circuit board within an LCD panel to the actual LCD glass), but it the
equipment required is relatively rare and exotic (a laptop with a full
size screen is not the same as a cell phone with a few square inches of
screen). The number of places that do it is small enough, and the cost
is high enough, that as a PRACTICAL matter it is normally not a
realistic option.


When I talked to a local company I was told they had to purchase used
equipment that had been used for laptop sized displays. The techs I know
that worked there told ne the same thing. So you are telling me they
are all liars?

Arguing with Barry is like clapping with one hand...........


A quick look at his posts in the Google Groups archives shows that
you're right.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On May 5, 10:37*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:

Yes, it can be done (rebonding the cables that go between the driver
circuit board within an LCD panel to the actual LCD glass), but it the
equipment required is relatively rare and exotic

* *When I talked to a local company I was told they had to purchase used
equipment that had been used for laptop sized displays. The techs I know
that worked there told ne the same thing. *So you are telling me they
are all liars?

Huh? There's no contradiction here, why would anyone be lying?

Manufacturers and their repair depots will be able to do a repair/
rebuild,
of those models they have contracted to support, during a warranty
period.

Meanwhile, local repair shops have to find an exact compatible
replacement
part (which, given that the originals were only sold in thousands to
OEM clients, and that current models are different in logical layout
and
mechanical features, means the ONLY market they can shop in is the
used-parts one).

Somewhere inbetween, the OEM clients can optionally pay for service
at the manufacturers' depot, for out-of-warranty units. If you have
a
four-year-old Apple LCD that has failed, it's likely Apple can get it
fixed.
No one else can. If it's six years old, Apple can't get it fixed.

See, there's four parties involved: LCD manufacturer (Samsung), OEM
user (Apple), local repair shop (Laptops R Us), and user.
User can get attention only from Apple or LRU.
LRU can get attention from Apple, but has no way to get services from
Samsung.
Samsung wants new-LCD sales, only grudgingly agreed to support
Apple for the term of their warranty to get the contract. That
agreement
times out with the last extended-warranty on the last sold computer
using the 1999 display model (OK, maybe it was built 2000 from the
1999 shipment of displays, sold late 2000/early 2001; you still lose
the
repair option at about 5 years).

Don't ask me how I know this...

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Bob Larter wrote:
Hell, you can do pretty much anything with the right equipment. Whether
it's economical or not is a whole different story. ;^)


It is, when they ship thousands of refurbished cell phones per week.
For a one off, no, it isn't worth trying.


In this case, if tweaking the connectors doesn't work, he's pretty much
SOL, unfortunately.


He can take a chance on a dead, 'for parts on' ebay find of the same
model.

Yep. If it were me, I'd either look for a dead laptop of the same type
with a good screen, or toss it & upgrade to a new laptop. It may be
possible to find a refurb panel, but it's probably not worth the hassle.

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Larter wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:
The most common cause of lines or bands in an LCD display is not blown
driver chips, it is failed ribbon cable connections between the board
with the driver chips going to the actual LCD glass. The bonding of
the ribbon cable to the glass itself fails.

It amounts to the same thing, & both are equally unfixable.


Sometimes...
Sometimes...
you can run your thumbnail across the place where the cable overlaps
the glass and cause a reconnect.

Sometimes...
you can shim the area to apply more force to the bad area.

Whaddayagottolose?

On Thu, 07 May 2009 22:31:55 +1000, Bob Larter
wrote:

Yep. If it were me, I'd either look for a dead laptop of the same type
with a good screen, or toss it & upgrade to a new laptop. It may be
possible to find a refurb panel, but it's probably not worth the hassle.

Over the last few years, LCDs have finally started to become somewhat
standardized. I've been able to substitute different makes and models
of laptop LCDs fairly indiscriminately. Even different resolution
LCDs are usually interchangeable (except for IBMs which require
replacing, or modifying the video cable).

The thickness, and screw hole locations are fairly standardized. The
electrical signals are also usually the same, but there are a few
different types of connectors in use. Also, the location of the
connector can vary.

I've found that 9 times out of 10, if the physical dimensions of the
LCD, and video connectors are the same, the sub will work fine. I'm
currently using an IBM with a screen that came from a Dell. The new
screen is a Samsung, and I think the old one was an LG.
Andy Cuffe

Andy Cuffe wrote:
On Thu, 07 May 2009 22:31:55 +1000, Bob Larter
wrote:
Yep. If it were me, I'd either look for a dead laptop of the same type
with a good screen, or toss it & upgrade to a new laptop. It may be
possible to find a refurb panel, but it's probably not worth the hassle.

Over the last few years, LCDs have finally started to become somewhat
standardized. I've been able to substitute different makes and models
of laptop LCDs fairly indiscriminately. Even different resolution
LCDs are usually interchangeable (except for IBMs which require
replacing, or modifying the video cable).

The thickness, and screw hole locations are fairly standardized. The
electrical signals are also usually the same, but there are a few
different types of connectors in use. Also, the location of the
connector can vary.

I've found that 9 times out of 10, if the physical dimensions of the
LCD, and video connectors are the same, the sub will work fine. I'm
currently using an IBM with a screen that came from a Dell. The new
screen is a Samsung, and I think the old one was an LG.
Andy Cuffe

Interesting. It's been some years since I last fixed laptops for a
living, & things have obviously improved in that time. ;^)

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

mike wrote:
Bob Larter wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:
The most common cause of lines or bands in an LCD display is not
blown driver chips, it is failed ribbon cable connections between the
board with the driver chips going to the actual LCD glass. The
bonding of the ribbon cable to the glass itself fails.

It amounts to the same thing, & both are equally unfixable.


Sometimes...
Sometimes...
you can run your thumbnail across the place where the cable overlaps
the glass and cause a reconnect.

Sometimes...
you can shim the area to apply more force to the bad area.

Whaddayagottolose?

True.


--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

On 2009-05-11 09:50:45 -0700, mike said:

Bob Larter wrote:
Barry Watzman wrote:
The most common cause of lines or bands in an LCD display is not blown
driver chips, it is failed ribbon cable connections between the board
with the driver chips going to the actual LCD glass. The bonding of
the ribbon cable to the glass itself fails.

It amounts to the same thing, & both are equally unfixable.


Sometimes...
Sometimes...
you can run your thumbnail across the place where the cable overlaps
the glass and cause a reconnect.

Sometimes...
you can shim the area to apply more force to the bad area.

Whaddayagottolose?

I experienced a similar problem with my PB 17 G4. I suspected the
ribbon connector, or the hinge. In order to stabilize the image on the
display I had to physically hold the displat at a particular angle. If
I so much as changed the pressure of the hold slightly or tryed to let
it hold the position on its own the problem would reappear.

My AppleCare had expired and what I was offered by my local Apple store
was apple's LCD repair program, where for $350 (shipping inc.) they
ship the PB to the Apple repair center (whereever, or hat ever that is.
In my case somewhere in Texas.) and perfom whatever repair or
replacement is needed.

The PB was returned via FEDEX 36 hours, later functioning perfectly. I
suspect all they did was replace the ribbon connector, or some sort of
hinge service. They did not replace the LCD. I was told that if the LCD
needed replacing, the fee would have covered that.

For me paying the $350 was worth it, as I did not have to deal with the
details myself and I have a full year of Apple warranty with the
repair, and I have my PB back and functioning.

Now it is a lifeboat and supplement to my new MBP.


--
Regards,
Savageduck