Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
not.

What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal
cleaning.

Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
tinned?

Is cost really so different?

Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?

Is flexibility affected?

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:14:40 +0100, Sandi wrote:

:Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
:not.
:
:What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
:advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
:wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal
:cleaning.
:
:Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
:tinned?
:
:Is cost really so different?
:
oes the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
:the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
:
:Is flexibility affected?


As you surmised, the answer is cost. It is not the cost of the tin itself but
the additional process and handling which adds to the complexity of production.
The copper conductor wire gauge is not made smaller where tinning is not applied
and the added few microns of tin would not affect resistance/unit length by any
significant degree. Flexibility is not an issue.

I think that manufacturers realise the majority of termination methods used
today rely on crimping or soldering while the copper conductors are clean.
Tinned conductors are an advantage where the conductors are secured by screws or
wire-wrap although less so for the latter. Insulation displacement techniques
are not a problem for untinned conductors.

"Sandi" wrote in message
...
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?


Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

Steve Terry

Steve Terry wrote:

"Sandi" wrote in message

snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?

Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

Largely irrelevant since the RF flows on the surface of the entire bundle
of conductors, not individual uninsulated strands.

Graham

"Pilgrim"
"Steve Terry"
"Sandi"

Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC


Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?


** No.

Teflon coated wire intended is for high temp applications.

Silver has a much higher melting point than tin ( just a tad below copper)
and is more corrosion resistant too.



...... Phil

In article ,
"Steve Terry" wrote:

"Sandi" wrote in message
...
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?


Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

Steve Terry

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?

Chuck P.

In article , Pilgrim wrote:
In article ,
"Steve Terry" wrote:

"Sandi" wrote in message
...
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?


Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

Steve Terry

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?

Chuck P.

Most of my TFE coated wire is not silvered butl is tinned. All TFE wirewrap is
silvered.

greg

On Apr 17, 8:41*am, Pilgrim wrote:
In article ,
*"Steve Terry" wrote:

"Sandi" wrote in message
...
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?

Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

Steve Terry

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?

I think the reason for silver-plated teflon wiring is mostly milspec
compliance (and the follow-ons that include the mispecs.) The real
question is, why is it in the milspec? Certainly WWII and Korea
influenced milspecs a lot to focus on fungus-proofing, and Teflon had
some advantages back then when the other insulators were not so fungus
resistant. At the same time, other insulating materials can turn
copper or even tin-plated copper inside the insulation black with a
kinda sooty residue (common on Romex from the 50's-70's for example).
It seems to me that silver-plated teflon was a kind of knee jerk
reaction to these two issues, a belt-and-suspenders-cost-is-no-object
approach to a pretty mundane but really fundamental issue.

It's a real joy to work on ex-military equipment with Teflon cable
assemblies. Compare it to other consumer or less-speced industrial
stuff from the same era with PVC-type insulation, where you flex the
cable a little bit and the insulation cracks and falls off leaving
bare wires.

Tim N3QE

"Pilgrim" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Steve Terry" wrote:

"Sandi" wrote in message
...
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?


Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC
Steve Terry

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?
Chuck P.

Yes, Silver is one of the few metals that has a lower resistance than
copper,
but oxidises easily so silver should be covered, PTFE is one of the best
coverings.

Steve Terry

Sandi wrote:
On 17 Apr 04:49, Ross Herbert wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:14:40 +0100, Sandi
wrote:

:Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot
:is not.
:
:What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see
:the advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which
:means the wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with
nly minimal cleaning.
:
:Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire
re- tinned?
:
:Is cost really so different?
:
oes the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been
:in the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
:
:Is flexibility affected?


As you surmised, the answer is cost. It is not the cost of the
tin itself but the additional process and handling which adds
to the complexity of production. The copper conductor wire
gauge is not made smaller where tinning is not applied and the
added few microns of tin would not affect resistance/unit
length by any significant degree. Flexibility is not an issue.

I think that manufacturers realise the majority of termination
methods used today rely on crimping or soldering while the
copper conductors are clean. Tinned conductors are an
advantage where the conductors are secured by screws or
wire-wrap although less so for the latter. Insulation
displacement techniques are not a problem for untinned
conductors.

Is it real "tin" that's used?


No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Cheers

ian

In article
,
Pilgrim wrote:

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?

My guess is that tinned wire is soldered more easily even after much
exposure to unfriendly environments. You do not have any copper oxide to
remove. Any crap in the tin flots away and new solder flows in under
such crap.

Bill

--
Private Profit; Public Poop! Avoid collateral windfall!

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:18:30 +0100, "Steve Terry"
wrote:


"Pilgrim" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Steve Terry" wrote:

"Sandi" wrote in message
...
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?


Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC
Steve Terry

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?
Chuck P.

Yes, Silver is one of the few metals that has a lower resistance than
copper,
but oxidises easily so silver should be covered, PTFE is one of the best
coverings.

Steve Terry


Some of the newer wires have PTFE-Polyimide-PTFE insulation. Best of
both worlds.

On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:

Sandi wrote:

Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

In article ,
Pilgrim wrote:

Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?

My understanding is that the Teflon-insulated wire uses silverplating
for a couple of reasons, related to the high melting point of Teflon
(and thus the high temperatures to which the wire is exposed when the
Teflon is melt-extruded onto the conductors).

The old-standard tin/lead tinning material can't be used in this
high-temperature environment, as it would be melted by the heat of the
Teflon extrusion, and would fuse a stranded-conductor wire into an
inflexible single strand.

Not tinning or plating the wire would leave the surface of the copper
exposed to high temperatures during the extrusion... I suspect that it
would oxidize (if there's any free oxygen in that environment... dunno
about that) or might react with the polymer. Even if it didn't react
at that time, oxygen would infiltrate the wire at the cut end (albeit
slowly) and the last few inches of the wire might end up with a
significant amount of copper oxide on the conducter surface.

Silver-plating protects the copper from oxidation (I gather that
silver oxide is somewhat easier for fluxes to deal with?) and the
silver doesn't melt at the Teflon extrusion temperature.

I don't believe that the silver plating is thick enough to give the
wire a significant conductivity advantage over pure copper, even at RF
frequencies.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

In article , (Dave Platt) wrote:
In article ,
Pilgrim wrote:

Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?

My understanding is that the Teflon-insulated wire uses silverplating
for a couple of reasons, related to the high melting point of Teflon
(and thus the high temperatures to which the wire is exposed when the
Teflon is melt-extruded onto the conductors).

I checked looked at a spool of about #20 stranded wire. It does look very shiny like silver.
I thought it was odd looking at it. its made up of a tightly twisted center
section and a loosly woven outer section around the inner section. The TFE is
almost a fluorescent blue. Neat stuff. 19/32 strands.

In article , (GregS) wrote:
In article , (Dave Platt)
wrote:
In article ,
Pilgrim wrote:

Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?

My understanding is that the Teflon-insulated wire uses silverplating
for a couple of reasons, related to the high melting point of Teflon
(and thus the high temperatures to which the wire is exposed when the
Teflon is melt-extruded onto the conductors).

I checked looked at a spool of about #20 stranded wire. It does look very shiny
like silver.
I thought it was odd looking at it. its made up of a tightly twisted center
section and a loosly woven outer section around the inner section. The TFE is
almost a fluorescent blue. Neat stuff. 19/32 strands.


This got to be audio grade !

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:

Sandi wrote:

Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)




Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they banned it ;-)

Cheers

Ian

"Mike" wrote in message
...
"Steve Terry" wrote in message
...
"Sandi" wrote in message
...
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?

Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

So how high does the frequency have to be for skin effect to matter?

(I have killed the cross posts to stop the usual abuse from being seen
outside uk.radio.amateur)
Mike

Beats me?

Steve Terry

On 17 Apr 16:22, Salmon Egg wrote:

In article
,
Pilgrim wrote:

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was
silver plated?

My guess is that tinned wire is soldered more easily even
after much exposure to unfriendly environments. You do not
have any copper oxide to remove. Any crap in the tin flots
away and new solder flows in under such crap.


That's what I would have thought too. But if pre-tinned (plastic
insulated) wire is so useful in this respect then why isn't pre-
tinned found more often?

I'm not thinking of the use of wire at RF frequencies but as an
interconecting wire.

I haven't managed to compare the cost of pre-tinned wire identical
plain copper wire but I don't ever recall seeing tinned wire and
thinking it was unexpectedly expensive. Has anyone got any info
from making this comparison in the past?

Sandi wrote:

Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is
not.

What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the
advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the
wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal
cleaning.

Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre-
tinned?

Is cost really so different?

Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?

Is flexibility affected?

Are you certain that its tinned wire you are looking at and not
nickel-plated copper? That is often used for high temp applications
where the copper alone will oxidize.

--
Paul Hovnanian
------------------------------------------------------------------
At some point it becomes necessary to behead all the architects and
begin construction. -- Abi-Bar-Shim (Project Mgr. - Great Pyramid)

On Apr 17, 7:18*am, "Steve Terry" wrote:
"Pilgrim" wrote in message

news


In article ,
"Steve Terry" wrote:

"Sandi" wrote in message
.. .
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?

Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC
Steve Terry

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?
Chuck P.

Yes, Silver is one of the few metals that has a lower resistance than
copper,
but oxidises easily so silver should be covered, PTFE is one of the best
coverings.


Silver does not oxidize so much as it tarnishes, by picking up sulfur
from the air.

Silver does not oxidize so much as it tarnishes,
by picking up sulfur from the air.

Same thing. Chemically, it's oxidation. Silver cleaners/polishes are
reducing agents (eg, Tarn-X).

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:14:40 +0100, Sandi wrote:

Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot is not.

What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see the advantage
is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which means the wire can be
soldered or fixed to a terminate with only minimal cleaning.

Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire pre- tinned?

Is cost really so different?

Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in the
overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?

Is flexibility affected?

The best I can remember was that the original plastic coating first used
when the cloth covering was abandoned was somewhat corrosive adding to the
problems of exposure to other corrosive elements including poor annealing
of the core wires and would usually result in you having to scrape the
wire ends before trying to solder them since the wire was usually oxidized
enough to interfere with proper solder adhesion off the spool new.

Tinning did away with this aggravation and the need to use corrosive flux
to get a proper solder joint. Though some of the early tinning was poor
quality and corroded also.

Early tinned wire was slightly stiffer and a tinned stranded conductor was
almost as stiff as a solid wire. with thinner plating techniques this is
not the case any more except for much of the wire made in the far east.

This was usually offset by going to a smaller gauge wire.

Most early primary electronic wiring was originally something between 14
and 16 ga. with tinned wires this became 18 to 20 ga. in most cases.

Gnack

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:20:00 +0100, Ian Bell
wrote:

Sandi wrote:
On 17 Apr 04:49, Ross Herbert wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:14:40 +0100, Sandi
wrote:

:Some insulated multistrnd copper wire is pre-tinned and a lot
:is not.
:
:What is the purpose of pre-tinned wire? As far as I can see
:the advantage is that the copper core doesn't oxidise which
:means the wire can be soldered or fixed to a terminate with
nly minimal cleaning.
:
:Sounds like a good thing to me, so why isn't almost all wire
re- tinned?
:
:Is cost really so different?
:
oes the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been
:in the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
:
:Is flexibility affected?


As you surmised, the answer is cost. It is not the cost of the
tin itself but the additional process and handling which adds
to the complexity of production. The copper conductor wire
gauge is not made smaller where tinning is not applied and the
added few microns of tin would not affect resistance/unit
length by any significant degree. Flexibility is not an issue.

I think that manufacturers realise the majority of termination
methods used today rely on crimping or soldering while the
copper conductors are clean. Tinned conductors are an
advantage where the conductors are secured by screws or
wire-wrap although less so for the latter. Insulation
displacement techniques are not a problem for untinned
conductors.

Is it real "tin" that's used?


No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Cheers

ian


Folks in this discussion need to define "pre-tinned".

There is TPC wire, which is individual TIN plated Copper strands made
into mutli-stranded wire in the same process as any other stranded wire.

There is SPC, which is individual Silver plated Copper strands.

It was always my understanding that "pre-tinned" wire was stranded wire
that was run through a solder bath and tinned similarly as the 'tinning'
one would give the end of a wire in a solder pot.

If the wire is this type, it is used in certain industries to reduce
production labor costs. It is specifically NOT used in certain other
industries due to the problems associated with cinched type termination
processes and an effect known as 'solder creep'.

TPC is TIN plated, not solder plated. Just like it states.

"Pre-tinned wire" IS processed using solder.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:

Sandi wrote:

Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)




Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they banned it ;-)

Cheers

Ian


Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the idiots had to
do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated
Wire)... It SAYS TPC TIN Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly from a shelf
life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap won't even
take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost difference is negligible, if
one weighs the added labor cost of dealing with poor quality TPC, which
nearly all of it is.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:07:46 +0100, "Steve Terry"
wrote:


"Sandi" wrote in message
...
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?


Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

Steve Terry


That's why one should use SPC, which is Silver plated Copper.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 05:41:50 -0700, Pilgrim wrote:

In article ,
"Steve Terry" wrote:

"Sandi" wrote in message
...
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?


Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

Steve Terry

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?

Chuck P.


Wrong. The customer gets what the customer buys. If all YOU were
exposed to was SPC TFE, the THAT was ALL your employer was buying, you
dope. TPC was just as prevalent, despite the fact that it sucks on so
many levels.

Mr. Haney wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
wrote:


David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:


Sandi wrote:

Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)




Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they banned it ;-)

Cheers

Ian



Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the idiots had to
do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated
Wire)... It SAYS TPC TIN Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly from a shelf
life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap won't even
take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost difference is negligible, if
one weighs the added labor cost of dealing with poor quality TPC, which
nearly all of it is.
Tinned plated wire shouldn't have issues with solder how ever, electro
plated may which is normally used more in cases of screw terminals and
crimp fasteners.





http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:35:39 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:


"Pilgrim"
"Steve Terry"
"Sandi"

Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC


Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?


** No.

Teflon coated wire intended is for high temp applications.

With the sole exclusion of anything related to a nuclear reactor.

Teflon turns to powder in that environment, and they (Genral Atomics)do
not use it in such settings. You will see it used on the Predator,
however.

Silver has a much higher melting point than tin ( just a tad below copper)
and is more corrosion resistant too.

Also, purified Silver Oxide, made in the lab, conducts better than the
element itself does. Silver oxide on wires, and other conductive
surfaces creates a protective 'patina' on the surfaces that are exposed
to the air. In wiring, it does not affect the overall conductivity of
the wire. In the lab, it is the top dog.

Most conductive element: Silver

Most conductive compound: Silver Oxide






..... Phil

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:18:30 +0100, "Steve Terry"
wrote:

but oxidises easily so silver should be covered, PTFE is one of the best
coverings.


Silver oxide is acceptable. It remains as a mechanical part of the
surface, and does not adversely affect conductivity.

Copper oxide is an unacceptable CRUST on your wire.

That is one reason why Sivler was used to plate copper wires.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:30:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Apr 17, 7:18*am, "Steve Terry" wrote:
"Pilgrim" wrote in message

news


In article ,
"Steve Terry" wrote:

"Sandi" wrote in message
.. .
snip
Does the tinning-coating replace where copper would have been in
the overall wire and tinning is of higher reistence?
Is flexibility affected?

Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC
Steve Terry

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?
Chuck P.

Yes, Silver is one of the few metals that has a lower resistance than
copper,
but oxidises easily so silver should be covered, PTFE is one of the best
coverings.


Silver does not oxidize so much as it tarnishes,

Tarnish IS oxide, you dope. Silver oxidizes, it just doesn't grow a
crust like Copper does, regardless of whatever other elements it grabs
while doing it.

by picking up sulfur
from the air.

You are thinking of Copper.

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 11:29:51 -0700, (Dave Platt)
wrote:

I don't believe that the silver plating is thick enough to give the
wire a significant conductivity advantage over pure copper, even at RF
frequencies.


There are grades of plating, just like there are grades of say hard
anodizing surface thickness for Aluminum, which affects its insulative
capacity (electrical).

"Mr. Haney"
"Phil Allison"

** No.

Teflon coated wire intended is for high temp applications.

With the sole exclusion of anything related to a nuclear reactor.


** Wot utterly irrelevant drivel.


Silver has a much higher melting point than tin ( just a tad below copper)
and is more corrosion resistant too.

Also, purified Silver Oxide, made in the lab, conducts better than the
element itself does.


** Shame it does not even exist on silver objects or wires.


Silver oxide on wires, and other conductive
surfaces creates a protective 'patina' on the surfaces that are exposed
to the air.


** Absolute ******** !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.



...... Phil

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:59:48 GMT, (GregS)
wrote:

In article , (GregS) wrote:
In article , (Dave Platt)
wrote:
In article ,
Pilgrim wrote:

Tin has a much lower conductivity than copper, and as RF travels on
the surface of a conductor, it would attenuate RF and high frequency AC

Is that why most, but not all, teflon insulated wire was silver plated?

My understanding is that the Teflon-insulated wire uses silverplating
for a couple of reasons, related to the high melting point of Teflon
(and thus the high temperatures to which the wire is exposed when the
Teflon is melt-extruded onto the conductors).

I checked looked at a spool of about #20 stranded wire. It does look very shiny
like silver.
I thought it was odd looking at it. its made up of a tightly twisted center
section and a loosly woven outer section around the inner section. The TFE is
almost a fluorescent blue. Neat stuff. 19/32 strands.


This got to be audio grade !

It is likely SPC and is Mil grade. There is no such thing as "audio
grade". You have been talking to too many consumer electronics
salespersons.

"Mr. Haney the Halfwit "


Silver does not oxidize so much as it tarnishes,

Tarnish IS oxide, you dope.


** Hanley is ****ING IMBECILE.




...... Phil

"Mr. Haney the Dickwad "


Silver oxide is acceptable.

** But non existent on wires etc.

It remains as a mechanical part of the
surface, and does not adversely affect conductivity.


** Since it does not exist on wire surfaces, that is true.

Hanley is a TOTAL MORON !!!




....... Phil

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:23:26 -0400, Jamie
t wrote:

Mr. Haney wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:30:49 +0100, Ian Bell
wrote:


David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 4/17/2009 7:20 AM Ian Bell spake thus:


Sandi wrote:

Is it real "tin" that's used?

No, it is usually tin/lead alloy, better known as solder.

Not any more (post-RoHS). (Solder, yes, but not lead.)




Fortunately I stocked up on the real stuff before they banned it ;-)

Cheers

Ian



Sorry, but TPC wire was already RoHS compliant. All the idiots had to
do is change the label. TIN is TIN. It doesn't say "SPC" (Solder PLated
Wire)... It SAYS TPC TIN Plated Wire. Pretty simple.

SPC (Silver, of course) is better anyway... particularly from a shelf
life POV.

I hate TPC wire that has been around too long. The crap won't even
take solder. Give me SPC any day. The cost difference is negligible, if
one weighs the added labor cost of dealing with poor quality TPC, which
nearly all of it is.
Tinned plated wire shouldn't have issues with solder how ever, electro
plated may which is normally used more in cases of screw terminals and
crimp fasteners.


Tin plated wire is notorious for NOT taking solder, especially when it
is inside teflon.

An even worse type is HV wire that is TPC on PTFE. It is worth
whatever the difference is to buy SPC, because THAT ALWAYS takes solder.

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:44:08 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:


** Shame it does not even exist on silver objects or wires.


One of the only true things I have ever seen you state.

"Mr. Haney"


Also, purified Silver Oxide, made in the lab, conducts better than the
element itself does.


** Shame it does not even exist on silver objects or wires.


Silver oxide on wires, and other conductive
surfaces creates a protective 'patina' on the surfaces that are exposed
to the air.


** Absolute ******** !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.



...... Phil

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 12:44:08 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

The dark tarnish seen on silver is silver sulphide ( Ag2S ) - which is an
insulator.

Hanley is just parroting one of the DUMBEST MYTHS floating around the
internet and swallowed whole by audiophools.



It has NOTHING to do with audio you retarded twit, and neither do I.

I never made ANY reference to audio EVER in ANY of my responses to
ANYONE.

I am referring to the days when I made RF chokes from Solid SPC wire.
And the prevalent use of it in military radios and other military gear. I
do not expect a dope like you to have a clue, being that you are from a
place that gets all its military gear from its allies.