In article ,
_ says...
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

snip
Parts and equipment are dirt cheap, easy to
find and well documented today. The only 'bargains' in the '60s was
electronic surplus. Mostly worn out or damaged military or industrial
surplus from W.W.II.

My experience is somewhat different; I benefited from large quantities
of nearly new military surplus for decades, which has now dried up; I
also had the benefit of companies willing to provide schematics and
technical documentation (usually at no charge, merely for the asking
in written requests) which is now unheard-of. To me the situation
has become markedly worse.

Yeah, most of it's only available online.

On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:43:47 -0600, krw wrote in
:

In article ,
says...

Sometimes you need to monitor a half dozen voltages or currents at
once. I'd love to do that with lab grade HP meters, each with a IEEE-488
interface, but they are over $2k each.

I'd rather I never met an IEEE-488 interface. :-( ...one off the
world's most stupid designs.

Regardless, it's quite workable and useful.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

In article ,
says...
On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:43:47 -0600, krw wrote in
:

In article ,
says...

Sometimes you need to monitor a half dozen voltages or currents at
once. I'd love to do that with lab grade HP meters, each with a IEEE-488
interface, but they are over $2k each.

I'd rather I never met an IEEE-488 interface. :-( ...one off the
world's most stupid designs.

Regardless, it's quite workable and useful.

Useful, yes, when it works. unfortunatelyy its design makes the
workable part problematic. For such modest requirements it's a
*really* bad design, even for the '70s.

On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:30:37 -0600, krw wrote in
:

In article ,
says...
On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:43:47 -0600, krw wrote in
:

In article ,
says...

Sometimes you need to monitor a half dozen voltages or currents at
once. I'd love to do that with lab grade HP meters, each with a IEEE-488
interface, but they are over $2k each.

I'd rather I never met an IEEE-488 interface. :-( ...one off the
world's most stupid designs.

Regardless, it's quite workable and useful.

Useful, yes, when it works. unfortunatelyy its design makes the
workable part problematic. For such modest requirements it's a
*really* bad design, even for the '70s.

That you've had so many problems with it is unfortunate. Perhaps I'm
just lucky, because I've had very few problems with it over the years.

--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John

In article ,
says...
On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:30:37 -0600, krw wrote in
:

In article ,
says...
On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:43:47 -0600, krw wrote in
:

In article ,
says...

Sometimes you need to monitor a half dozen voltages or currents at
once. I'd love to do that with lab grade HP meters, each with a IEEE-488
interface, but they are over $2k each.

I'd rather I never met an IEEE-488 interface. :-( ...one off the
world's most stupid designs.

Regardless, it's quite workable and useful.

Useful, yes, when it works. unfortunatelyy its design makes the
workable part problematic. For such modest requirements it's a
*really* bad design, even for the '70s.

That you've had so many problems with it is unfortunate. Perhaps I'm
just lucky, because I've had very few problems with it over the years.

How many "large" systems (say, 20-30 devices) have you tried to put
together. The connection problems with large numbers of devices
are huge, though I've seen them with only a couple of devices on a
channel, as well. cablingg gets to be a mess (and you'd better have
lots of different lengths on hand to play with).

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 23:13:44 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I have about a dozen digital meters. The Fluke bench meters are
unrepairable, but the cheap HF meters keep working.

I have a Fluke PM97 Scopemeter for which I paid AU$2750. Just about
everything's broken in it. Bad probes, bad batteries (soon after
purchase), bad AC adapter, bad logic board. Even one page of the $100
service manual (the power supply circuit diagram) was missing. For the
past 10 years or so the meter has been sitting in the cupboard. One
day I'll have another go at repairing it, otherwise I'll stomp on it
.... again and again and again ...

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Franc Zabkar wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 23:13:44 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I have about a dozen digital meters. The Fluke bench meters are
unrepairable, but the cheap HF meters keep working.

I have a Fluke PM97 Scopemeter for which I paid AU$2750. Just about
everything's broken in it. Bad probes, bad batteries (soon after
purchase), bad AC adapter, bad logic board. Even one page of the $100
service manual (the power supply circuit diagram) was missing. For the
past 10 years or so the meter has been sitting in the cupboard. One
day I'll have another go at repairing it, otherwise I'll stomp on it
... again and again and again ...


Sell it on E-bay as 'May need repaired' ;-)


http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 20:33:36 -0000, Pat Cheney wrote:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:47:06 -0800, SMS wrote:

They said it was "usb" but they never said it was "proprietary USB".
Does anyone know WHY they didn't say that additional word?

For the same reason that reviews of cell phones don't mention the type
of charging connector. The review sites don't understand that it's a
feature of concern to some buyers. Actually when I buy a cell phone
these days, I won't buy one that uses a proprietary power connector, but
you can't find that information out easily without looking at the phone.

You're so right!

I never buy a cell phone without finding out first if it's mini-usb or not.
Same with headphones and gps navigation units.

One problem I've found with cellphones is Motorola. For some reason,
Motorola USB is "special" USB.

I've found that Motorola chargers work fine with all other phones but
Motorola phones don't work well with the other chargers. But I found a
solution that works so that a single charger charges all my electronics.

This happened with my Blackberry 8700 two years ago and again with my new
Blackberry 9000 this year.

The solution was to buy from a large department store a 550 ma Motorola
mini-usb charger and then to turn around a day later and return it. But, in
the box I put the brand-new 750ma Blackberry mini-USB charger instead of
the Motorola charger.

I would hope EVERYONE would do this. When Motorola gets thousands of
Blackberry or Garmin mini-usb chargers, they'll figure out their error.

Luckily, for the past two years, I've had no problems using the Motorola
charger in all my portable electronics appliances so it's just the Motorola
phone (RAZR) that is the culprit.

I never use the software on my cameras. I take the memory card out and stick it in a universal card reader. Same can apply to phones.


--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Top Tip. If someone shoves your feet in a fire, quickly put your head in a bucket of iced water. On average, you will be pretty comfortable.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:11:39 -0000, John Navas wrote:

On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:33:36 -0800, Pat Cheney wrote
in :

I never buy a cell phone without finding out first if it's mini-usb or not.
Same with headphones and gps navigation units.

One problem I've found with cellphones is Motorola. For some reason,
Motorola USB is "special" USB.

I've found that Motorola chargers work fine with all other phones but
Motorola phones don't work well with the other chargers. ...

This is actually just a matter of the wrong cable / connection.

The problem is that not all Standard-A to Mini-B USB cables are the same
-- there are both 5-connection cables and 4-connection cables, and only
proper 5-connector cables will work properly without a Motorola USB
driver. Standard USB has only 4 connections. Mini USB has 5
connections, the extra connection being the device ID pin.

There was absolutely no need to invent more than TWO types of B connector. A big one and a little one.


--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

A foursome was on the last hole, and when the last golfer drove off the tee he hooked into a cow pasture. He advised his friends to play through and he'd meet them at the clubhouse. They followed the plan and waited for their friend.
After a considerable time he appeared disheveled, bloody, and badly beaten up. They all wanted to know what happened.
He explained that he went over to the cow pasture but could not find his ball. He noticed a cow wringing her tail in obvious pain. He went over and lifted her tail and saw a golf ball solidly embedded. It was a yellow Titleist so he knew it was not his. A woman comes out of the bushes apparently searching for her lost golf ball.
The helpful male golfer lifted the cow's tail and asked, "Does this look like yours?" and that was the last thing he could remember.

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:38:46 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:11:39 -0000, John Navas wrote:

The problem is that not all Standard-A to Mini-B USB cables are the same
-- there are both 5-connection cables and 4-connection cables, and only
proper 5-connector cables will work properly without a Motorola USB
driver. Standard USB has only 4 connections. Mini USB has 5
connections, the extra connection being the device ID pin.

There was absolutely no need to invent more than TWO types of B connector. A big one and a little one.

Different devices have different requirements. The big one is stronger
and easier to use for devices with sufficient size. The small one is
designed for small devices.

--
Best regards,
John
Panasonic DMC-FZ8, DMC-FZ20, and several others

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:07:17 -0000, John Navas wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:38:46 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:11:39 -0000, John Navas wrote:

The problem is that not all Standard-A to Mini-B USB cables are the same
-- there are both 5-connection cables and 4-connection cables, and only
proper 5-connector cables will work properly without a Motorola USB
driver. Standard USB has only 4 connections. Mini USB has 5
connections, the extra connection being the device ID pin.

There was absolutely no need to invent more than TWO types of B connector. A big one and a little one.

Different devices have different requirements. The big one is stronger
and easier to use for devices with sufficient size. The small one is
designed for small devices.

Agreed. What I object to is the large number of varieties of the small type.


--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

Mixed emotions are when your mother-in-law drives your new Ferrari off the cliff.

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:14:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:07:17 -0000, John Navas wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:38:46 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:11:39 -0000, John Navas wrote:

The problem is that not all Standard-A to Mini-B USB cables are the same
-- there are both 5-connection cables and 4-connection cables, and only
proper 5-connector cables will work properly without a Motorola USB
driver. Standard USB has only 4 connections. Mini USB has 5
connections, the extra connection being the device ID pin.

There was absolutely no need to invent more than TWO types of B connector. A big one and a little one.

Different devices have different requirements. The big one is stronger
and easier to use for devices with sufficient size. The small one is
designed for small devices.

Agreed. What I object to is the large number of varieties of the small type.

There are only two, mini and micro.

--
Best regards,
John
Panasonic DMC-FZ8, DMC-FZ20, and several others

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:15:31 -0000, John Navas wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:14:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:07:17 -0000, John Navas wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:38:46 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:11:39 -0000, John Navas wrote:

The problem is that not all Standard-A to Mini-B USB cables are the same
-- there are both 5-connection cables and 4-connection cables, and only
proper 5-connector cables will work properly without a Motorola USB
driver. Standard USB has only 4 connections. Mini USB has 5
connections, the extra connection being the device ID pin.

There was absolutely no need to invent more than TWO types of B connector. A big one and a little one.

Different devices have different requirements. The big one is stronger
and easier to use for devices with sufficient size. The small one is
designed for small devices.

Agreed. What I object to is the large number of varieties of the small type.

There are only two, mini and micro.

There are only two standard ones. There are also a couple that only fit certain makes of camera. The only place I've found to get these is to look for a cable designed for that particular camera on ebay.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

_.-``````-._
,' `.
___/________________\___
(_o__o__o__o__o__o__o__o_)
=.============,=
/`-.__..__.-'\
OO || OO
OO

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:27:41 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:15:31 -0000, John Navas wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:14:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:07:17 -0000, John Navas wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:38:46 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:11:39 -0000, John Navas wrote:

The problem is that not all Standard-A to Mini-B USB cables are the same
-- there are both 5-connection cables and 4-connection cables, and only
proper 5-connector cables will work properly without a Motorola USB
driver. Standard USB has only 4 connections. Mini USB has 5
connections, the extra connection being the device ID pin.

There was absolutely no need to invent more than TWO types of B connector. A big one and a little one.

Different devices have different requirements. The big one is stronger
and easier to use for devices with sufficient size. The small one is
designed for small devices.

Agreed. What I object to is the large number of varieties of the small type.

There are only two, mini and micro.

There are only two standard ones.
There are also a couple that only fit certain makes of camera.

That's typically because the camera also has audio-video output that
needs its own connections, and because size and cost are often issues, a
proprietary combo USB-AV connector is used. But the camera usually
comes with the requisite cable, so there's no real issue unless you're
careless enough to lose it.

--
Best regards,
John
Panasonic DMC-FZ8, DMC-FZ20, and several others

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:40:27 -0000, John Navas wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:27:41 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:15:31 -0000, John Navas wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:14:10 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:07:17 -0000, John Navas wrote:

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:38:46 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 02:11:39 -0000, John Navas wrote:

The problem is that not all Standard-A to Mini-B USB cables are the same
-- there are both 5-connection cables and 4-connection cables, and only
proper 5-connector cables will work properly without a Motorola USB
driver. Standard USB has only 4 connections. Mini USB has 5
connections, the extra connection being the device ID pin.

There was absolutely no need to invent more than TWO types of B connector. A big one and a little one.

Different devices have different requirements. The big one is stronger
and easier to use for devices with sufficient size. The small one is
designed for small devices.

Agreed. What I object to is the large number of varieties of the small type.

There are only two, mini and micro.

There are only two standard ones.
There are also a couple that only fit certain makes of camera.

That's typically because the camera also has audio-video output that
needs its own connections, and because size and cost are often issues, a
proprietary combo USB-AV connector is used.

The ones I'm referring to were only USB cables. The non-camera end was a standard type A USB plug to go into a PC.

But the camera usually
comes with the requisite cable, so there's no real issue unless you're
careless enough to lose it.

Or have it eaten by a parrot.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

When the Viagra virus comes to your PC, all your software becomes hardware.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:37:27 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:40:27 -0000, John Navas wrote:

That's typically because the camera also has audio-video output that
needs its own connections, and because size and cost are often issues, a
proprietary combo USB-AV connector is used.

The ones I'm referring to were only USB cables. The non-camera end was a standard type A USB plug to go into a PC.

Which cameras?

--
Best regards,
John
Panasonic DMC-FZ8, DMC-FZ20, and several others

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:25:15 -0000, John Navas wrote:

On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:37:27 -0000, "Peter Hucker" wrote
in :

On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:40:27 -0000, John Navas wrote:

That's typically because the camera also has audio-video output that
needs its own connections, and because size and cost are often issues, a
proprietary combo USB-AV connector is used.

The ones I'm referring to were only USB cables. The non-camera end was a standard type A USB plug to go into a PC.

Which cameras?

One was a basic model Benq, the other I've forgotten the name of.

--
http://www.petersparrots.com http://www.insanevideoclips.com http://www.petersphotos.com

There are three blondes stranded on an island. Suddenly a fairy appears and offers to grant each one of them one wish.
The first blonde asks to be intelligent. Instantly, she is turned into a brown haired woman and she swims off the island.
The next one asks to be even more intelligent than the previous one, so instantly she is turned into a black haired woman. The black haired woman builds a boat and sails off the island.
The third blonde asks to become even more intelligent than the previous two. The fairy turns her into a man, and he walks across the bridge.