George's Pro Sound Company wrote:

I feature mostly Meyer Sound Labs gear for the serious rig and behringer for
the disposable low end crap

I'd love to lnow if Behringer gear destined for the N.A. market still uses
leaded solder. Could exaplin a LOT ! Any chance of asking Jim Savery. I've lost
his contact details.

Graham

Glad to hear it. I don't suppose you're a musician who uses Wharfe
gear or repairs pro audio gear for a living, but rather just another
consumer or retailer who has an opinion.

As far as the Behringer gear goes I have no experience with it so
other than seeing a lot of negative comments about it from those who
do use or repair it i have no opinion.

my opionons are formed by the gear I choose to own or not own, I IN FACT
put
my money where my mouth is
I OWN a sr company with a 1/4 million dollars of inventory and events that
have run into the 100,000 attendence range
be at it over 20 years
I feature mostly Meyer Sound Labs gear for the serious rig and behringer
for
the disposable low end crap
George


LOL!

?????????
George

Eeyore wrote:


liquidator wrote:


"Jamie" wrote in message

Btw, distortion due to amplifier saturation,


What is this "amplifier saturation" you talk of ? Please use accepted
terminology.



even though the amp is
far belong the rating of the speaker can and does over heat the speaker
coil and thus, can terminate the life of a speaker even rated higher
than said amp.

Ahnothetr person with minimal knowledge.


This is my experience of Jamie too. He reckons he's some hot shot but constantly
uses the wrong words to describe things for example. His knowledge is also very
dated.

Graham

Graham, you play with toys.. you work with toys.. and as usual,
all you have left is finger pointing because you've lost what ever
you had. That is, if you had anything of value to start with other
than what you find off the backs of others.

Your knowledge of electronics is most likely gained from destroying
an untold amount of components and still to this day, you have to
scratch that bold head of yours and wonder what you did with that last
puff of smoke you allowed to escape.

You boast that your an elite in audio design, from what I've seen you
point out. A mear amateur, expert you are not!.

Thank you and have a nice day, BSA..

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Eeyore wrote:


Jamie wrote:


Boy!, you're way out of your league..


Typical Jamie response.

Liquidator knows his stuff 99+ odd % of the time.

Graham

It's not shocking that you would side with him. If I
didn't know any better, the two of you must be collaborating.

It would explain a lot of things.

Graham, the hole your digging is getting bigger.
Please watch your step, I wouldn't want to see any one get
hurt now.

You are not an elite in audio design or any other for that fact,
get over your self. I'm sure you're good for something and maybe
one day you'll find it.


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Eeyore wrote:


liquidator wrote:


"Jamie" t wrote in message

Any one have some hip boots ? my normal boots aren't tall enough!

Jeez- another idiot to killfiter- where are you pointing out what I said was
wrong?


Jamie is notorious (with me at least) for having some very odd ideas sometimes
in the electronics groups. I think he's a little bit out of touch with current
practice in this area.

Graham

LOL, yes, I must say you're correct in this statement..
Because, if you are one that dictates current practices, I
feel sorry for the rest that follows your guide lines! oh
wait, that can never happen. You just simply spit out crap
and never give any useful information that can be used in real life
applications.

You just go on, boasting your fantasy story's..

is there anything you haven't done or don't know?

I know your an old fart and most likely starting to get
senile.


http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


liquidator wrote:

Dave we've gooten off on the wrong foot, but what happens is Eeyore
starts
these damn crossposts.

He has been asked a number of times to stop.

He's a nice fellow but he keeps staring into space and mumbling
"crossposting is good".

What it does is throw groups of people together who don't know each
other...it ALWAYS wstarts fights .PERIOD.

I wish Graham (Eeyore) would stops as he's been asked to- but he's
convinced
he's right, and no amount of logic is gonna change that..

According to the currently accepted rules of netquette, a post that is
relevant
to several groups SHOULD be cross-posted. Most certainly not multiposted.

Explain how it is off-charter in rec.audio.tech or sci.electronics.repair
where
a lot of audio is discussed daily. It was a repair question after all !
And
technical.



It's not against the law to fart in an elevator- just because you CAN do
something is it a good idea?

% out of 5 of your last crossposts have started arguments.

It appears to matter not to you. one can only assume you enjoy the
arguments.

Graham, you know I don't have anything against you. But what happens when
there is a disagreement between people in two different groups is that
persons friends join in, often they don't even understand the discussion,
they are just PO'd somebody is dissing their friiend...such arguments can't
be one by anybody, and anybody who posts more than 3 times to them has way
too much time on their hands. But Usenet is full of people with too much
time on their hands. And too little knowledge.

liquidator wrote:

"Jamie" t wrote in message
...

liquidator wrote:


"Jamie" t wrote in

message

news

George's Pro Sound Company wrote:



"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...



the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to use a[n] amp
larger than the speaker[']s rateing [sic]

Actually, the easiest way to overdrive a speaker is to play it at a

level


where it produces audible distortion. But as most listeners have no

idea

what distortion sounds like...


OTOH distortion does not destroy speakers, speakers are as happy to

play

distortion as clean signal
only when you exceed the heat dissipating ability of the motor do you

burn


out a speaker

clipping does not damage speakers and distortion does not damage

speakers,


its overheating and over excursion that damages speakers
distortion is one method of achieving overheating, but you can overheat

with


a spotlessly clean signal as well




Really?, I'll make sure I don't do business with you.

Btw, distortion due to amplifier saturation, even though the amp is
far belong the rating of the speaker can and does over heat the speaker
coil and thus, can terminate the life of a speaker even rated higher
than said amp.



Ahnothetr person with minimal knowledge.

George doesn't always word things the best way, but he knows a lot.

Speakers are rated for average power, over time.

Look at the area under a square wave- it is a lot larger than the area

under

a sine wave. What that means is more power for a longer time. What is
happening is the AMOUNT of power is being increased to a speaker for a
longer TIME.

Plain and simple- that is more power. It is the amout of power over time
that kills the speaker...it can only shed heat so fast, put power in

faster

than that it will burn up.

Simple..just use a bigger amp...and drive it to peak, you can blow the
speaker quickly.

Use a smaller amp, and drive it to its full power for longer, and the
speaker will blow, assuming the amp is big enough to put out that much
average power.
Either way- it is power that is the culprit. The amount of energy being

put

into the speaker...put it in faster than the speaker can sink it, you

will

have thermal failure.

It is not DC as people who skimmed one book and didn't understand it

want to

insist.

Make the amp small enough, the speaker can handle any waveform. Make the

amp

big enough and the speaker will fail instantly with any input at

all...then

there are a million scenarios in between.

I disagreee with George, I use big amps and don't blow speaker,

conversely

people are blowing their 100 watt speakers with "50 watt" amplifiers.

Take a look at an EV speaker rating...xxx watss with pink noise for xxx
hours.

Change the signal, the speaker's rating changes. Incraes the time, the
speaker's rating changes.

Square waves or severe clipping is more power for a longer time. That is

all

it is.

Not DC, not any big mystery, it's a measurable phenomenon.

I do agree with George that sizing amps and sopeakers reduces chance for
failure. But many touring companies use big amps for horns also, larger

amps

tend to hold their resale better, from a business standpoint make more

sense

to me.

Here's a semi pro example-

Loot at the price difference between a Behringer 2500 and a 1500. Not
much...but come resale time you will do a lot better with the 2500..

Business is business, I buy bigger amps. your mileage may vary.



What ever you do think you know as fact, must of come at a great expense
of destroying a lot of electronics.



Again showing your gross ignorance.
As a working pro I'm sure I paid more in taxes than you earned.

Welcome to the killfiles as the only total loss I've seen today.

Dont' bother replying, but your juvenile need to will make you do it anyway.


Thank you very much, and don't worry, my kill file is full of idiots
like you.

P.S.
No one person is over anyone else. Just remember, every one
can be replaced with better than what you think you are.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...
out of touch with current
practice .




Voltage and resistance practice too.As well as theory.

Since you insist on groaner puns....

Ghandi of cousre, was an Indian holy man. What is not know as much is he had
to walk everywhere, consequently building up heavy callouses on his feet.

Due to poor diet, he suffered constant ill health and bad breath.

He was a super calloused fragile mystic vexed by halitosis.

I hope that settles the matter.

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


liquidator wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

Suggest you try driving a DC coupled amp into heavy clipping and see
the
results to speakers which can nominally handle its output.

You would have flunked electronics 101.

Clipping and DC are not the same thing. That argument was selltled years
ago- only those with minimal knowledge advance it today.

In the early days of DC coupled outputs, some amps still had a degree of
internal AC coupling or bypassing in the drive circuitry.

They could indeed 'drift' DC under prolonged overdrive.


You are spot on with that condition...but I assumed that we would be talking
about "current" amps.

I wouldn't be using any of those old amps on the job.

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


George's Pro Sound Company wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" wrote

What gets you up so early on a Sunday? (I'm on the west coast,
and have been up since 2AM.)

went out had a couple of dogfish 90 minutes and that set me down
early(8pm) some days your just not tired at 4 am

As in...

http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Seas...le/3/index.htm

Same brewery but this IPA

http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Year...A/11/index.htm

Are you familiar with the origin of the name 'IPA' ?


Curious- India Pale? No I'd be interested in where the term came from...I
knew the gin and tonic came from having to drink quinine against malaria.

"liquidator" wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


George's Pro Sound Company wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" wrote

What gets you up so early on a Sunday? (I'm on the west coast,
and have been up since 2AM.)

went out had a couple of dogfish 90 minutes and that set me down
early(8pm) some days your just not tired at 4 am

As in...

http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Seas...le/3/index.htm

Same brewery but this IPA

http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Year...A/11/index.htm

Are you familiar with the origin of the name 'IPA' ?


Curious- India Pale? No I'd be interested in where the term came from...I
knew the gin and tonic came from having to drink quinine against malaria.

extra hops were added to the beer going from Great Britain to India as a
preservative
hence India Pale Ale, the pale ale bound for India

so a IPA is a hoppier Pale ale
and a double IPA is Hoppier, Imperial Pales are also sometimes called double
IPA's
George

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
liquidator wrote:
It is not DC as people who skimmed one book and didn't understand it
want to insist.

Drive an amp hard enough and that's what you effectively get, as far as
the speaker is concerned. Try taking your head out of your arse and use
that scope.


Ignorance is bliss and you are happy the way you are.

Simply, you are just plain wrong. You seem to be interested in making
yourself look worse and worse, go on about it with somebody else please.

You've sufficiently proven it to me.

Clipping isn't DC, obvious you never studied engineering. Or physics. Or
much else, it looks like.

Bye. No more time for you. Got real things to do.

Jamie wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
liquidator wrote:
"Jamie" wrote in message

Btw, distortion due to amplifier saturation,

What is this "amplifier saturation" you talk of ? Please use accepted
terminology.

even though the amp is
far belong the rating of the speaker can and does over heat the speaker
coil and thus, can terminate the life of a speaker even rated higher
than said amp.

Ahnothetr person with minimal knowledge.

This is my experience of Jamie too. He reckons he's some hot shot but constantly
uses the wrong words to describe things for example. His knowledge is also very
dated.

Graham, you play with toys.. you work with toys.. and as usual,
all you have left is finger pointing because you've lost what ever
you had. That is, if you had anything of value to start with other
than what you find off the backs of others.

Your knowledge of electronics is most likely gained from destroying
an untold amount of components and still to this day, you have to
scratch that bold head of yours and wonder what you did with that last
puff of smoke you allowed to escape.

You boast that your an elite in audio design, from what I've seen you
point out. A mear amateur, expert you are not!.

Answer the bloody question IDIOT !

What is a "saturated amplifier" ? You can't even use the right words.

Graham

Jamie wrote:

Graham, the hole your digging is getting bigger.

IGNORANT PRICK

Jamie wrote:

liquidator wrote:

Dont' bother replying, but your juvenile need to will make you do it anyway.

Thank you very much, and don't worry, my kill file is full of idiots

You should add yourself !

liquidator wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message
liquidator wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

Suggest you try driving a DC coupled amp into heavy clipping and see
the results to speakers which can nominally handle its output.

You would have flunked electronics 101.

Clipping and DC are not the same thing. That argument was selltled years
ago- only those with minimal knowledge advance it today.

In the early days of DC coupled outputs, some amps still had a degree of
internal AC coupling or bypassing in the drive circuitry.

They could indeed 'drift' DC under prolonged overdrive.

You are spot on with that condition...but I assumed that we would be talking
about "current" amps.

I wouldn't be using any of those old amps on the job.

Me neither. I wonder if that was part of the reason for the Flame Linear
monicker, or was it just inadequate heatsinking ?

Graham

liquidator wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
George's Pro Sound Company wrote:
"William Sommerwerck" wrote

What gets you up so early on a Sunday? (I'm on the west coast,
and have been up since 2AM.)

went out had a couple of dogfish 90 minutes and that set me down
early(8pm) some days your just not tired at 4 am

As in...

http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Seas...le/3/index.htm

Same brewery but this IPA

http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Year...A/11/index.htm

Are you familiar with the origin of the name 'IPA' ?

Curious- India Pale? No I'd be interested in where the term came from...I
knew the gin and tonic came from having to drink quinine against malaria.

Indeed. India Pale Ale. It was indeed exported from Britain to India in the
days of the Raj and to be able to wiststand the long sea voyages had to contain
a fair percentage of alcohol to prevent it going off. The length of journey
also allowed it to mature nicely.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


liquidator wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message
liquidator wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

Suggest you try driving a DC coupled amp into heavy clipping and
see
the results to speakers which can nominally handle its output.

You would have flunked electronics 101.

Clipping and DC are not the same thing. That argument was selltled
years
ago- only those with minimal knowledge advance it today.

In the early days of DC coupled outputs, some amps still had a degree
of
internal AC coupling or bypassing in the drive circuitry.

They could indeed 'drift' DC under prolonged overdrive.

You are spot on with that condition...but I assumed that we would be
talking
about "current" amps.

I wouldn't be using any of those old amps on the job.

Me neither. I wonder if that was part of the reason for the Flame Linear
monicker, or was it just inadequate heatsinking ?

Graham



I think you could check "all of the above"

It was designed to be light and cheap...remember, it was a home stereo
amp...it just found favor in pro use, it was never meant to be pro...

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


liquidator wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
George's Pro Sound Company wrote:
"William Sommerwerck" wrote

What gets you up so early on a Sunday? (I'm on the west coast,
and have been up since 2AM.)

went out had a couple of dogfish 90 minutes and that set me down
early(8pm) some days your just not tired at 4 am

As in...


http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Seas...le/3/index.htm

Same brewery but this IPA


http://www.dogfish.com/brewings/Year...A/11/index.htm

Are you familiar with the origin of the name 'IPA' ?

Curious- India Pale? No I'd be interested in where the term came
from...I
knew the gin and tonic came from having to drink quinine against
malaria.

Indeed. India Pale Ale. It was indeed exported from Britain to India in
the
days of the Raj and to be able to wiststand the long sea voyages had to
contain
a fair percentage of alcohol to prevent it going off. The length of
journey
also allowed it to mature nicely.

Perhaps Jamie should go on a long journey...

Eeyore wrote:


Jamie wrote:


liquidator wrote:

Dont' bother replying, but your juvenile need to will make you do it anyway.


Thank you very much, and don't worry, my kill file is full of idiots


You should add yourself !

Oh, that's so intellectual of you.

Is that the best you got ?

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

Eeyore wrote:


Jamie wrote:


Eeyore wrote:

liquidator wrote:

"Jamie" wrote in message


Btw, distortion due to amplifier saturation,

What is this "amplifier saturation" you talk of ? Please use accepted
terminology.


even though the amp is
far belong the rating of the speaker can and does over heat the speaker
coil and thus, can terminate the life of a speaker even rated higher
than said amp.

Ahnothetr person with minimal knowledge.

This is my experience of Jamie too. He reckons he's some hot shot but constantly
uses the wrong words to describe things for example. His knowledge is also very
dated.

Graham, you play with toys.. you work with toys.. and as usual,
all you have left is finger pointing because you've lost what ever
you had. That is, if you had anything of value to start with other
than what you find off the backs of others.

Your knowledge of electronics is most likely gained from destroying
an untold amount of components and still to this day, you have to
scratch that bold head of yours and wonder what you did with that last
puff of smoke you allowed to escape.

You boast that your an elite in audio design, from what I've seen you
point out. A mear amateur, expert you are not!.


Answer the bloody question IDIOT !

What is a "saturated amplifier" ? You can't even use the right words.

Graham

I proved my point..

You smuck. It's time to relinquish the community
PC and let the next guest in that ward, have their turn.

You may want to look in the hall before sneaking back
to your room. I'm sure they are looking for you.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

"Jamie" t wrote in message
...
Eeyore wrote:


Jamie wrote:


Eeyore wrote:

liquidator wrote:

"Jamie" wrote in message


Btw, distortion due to amplifier saturation,

What is this "amplifier saturation" you talk of ? Please use accepted
terminology.


even though the amp is
far belong the rating of the speaker can and does over heat the
speaker
coil and thus, can terminate the life of a speaker even rated higher
than said amp.

Ahnothetr person with minimal knowledge.

This is my experience of Jamie too. He reckons he's some hot shot but
constantly
uses the wrong words to describe things for example. His knowledge is
also very
dated.

Graham, you play with toys.. you work with toys.. and as usual,
all you have left is finger pointing because you've lost what ever
you had. That is, if you had anything of value to start with other
than what you find off the backs of others.

Your knowledge of electronics is most likely gained from destroying
an untold amount of components and still to this day, you have to
scratch that bold head of yours and wonder what you did with that last
puff of smoke you allowed to escape.

You boast that your an elite in audio design, from what I've seen you
point out. A mear amateur, expert you are not!.


Answer the bloody question IDIOT !

What is a "saturated amplifier" ? You can't even use the right words.

Graham

I proved my point..

You smuck. It's time to relinquish the community
PC and let the next guest in that ward, have their turn.

You may want to look in the hall before sneaking back
to your room. I'm sure they are looking for you.

http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5"

I got to say Jamie compared to you Eyesore is a Rhodes scholar, I havn't
seen anything but pure rubbish from you

and before you go off again like the noon bell at 11:17
there isno love lost between eyesore and myself
George

"George's Pro Sound Company"
"Jamie"


I got to say Jamie, compared to you Eyesore is a Rhodes scholar, I havn't
seen anything but pure rubbish from you


** "Jamie" is actually one Maynard A. Philbrook.

Maynard is a another ****wit radio ham, call sign: KA1LPA

Maynard makes his living as a code scribbler, he is no electronics tech.

Maynard is mentally defective as hell.



...... Phil

liquidator wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
liquidator wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message
liquidator wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

Suggest you try driving a DC coupled amp into heavy clipping and
? see the results to speakers which can nominally handle its output.

You would have flunked electronics 101.

Clipping and DC are not the same thing. That argument was selltled
years ago- only those with minimal knowledge advance it today.

In the early days of DC coupled outputs, some amps still had a degree
of internal AC coupling or bypassing in the drive circuitry.

They could indeed 'drift' DC under prolonged overdrive.

I remember know. You'd get a charge pump effect.


You are spot on with that condition...but I assumed that we would be
talking about "current" amps.

I wouldn't be using any of those old amps on the job.

Me neither. I wonder if that was part of the reason for the Flame Linear
monicker, or was it just inadequate heatsinking ?

I think you could check "all of the above"

It was designed to be light and cheap...remember, it was a home stereo
amp...it just found favor in pro use, it was never meant to be pro...

Still saw enough of them in amp racks. Usually with a pair of Boxer fans
blowing on the heatsinks.

Studiomaster's original 800B was a modified, increased power and ruggedised
version of the PL700 with the Boxer fans built in ! And before George jumps
down my throat for copying it, it was well before my time there.

Graham

liquidator wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in message

Indeed. India Pale Ale. It was indeed exported from Britain to India in
the days of the Raj and to be able to wiststand the long sea voyages had to

contain a fair percentage of alcohol to prevent it going off. The length of

journey also allowed it to mature nicely.

Perhaps Jamie should go on a long journey...

Good advice !

Graham

Jamie wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Jamie wrote:
Eeyore wrote:
liquidator wrote:
"Jamie" wrote in message

Btw, distortion due to amplifier saturation,

What is this "amplifier saturation" you talk of ? Please use accepted
terminology.

even though the amp is
far belong the rating of the speaker can and does over heat the speaker
coil and thus, can terminate the life of a speaker even rated higher
than said amp.

Ahnothetr person with minimal knowledge.

This is my experience of Jamie too. He reckons he's some hot shot but constantly
uses the wrong words to describe things for example. His knowledge is also very
dated.

Graham, you play with toys.. you work with toys.. and as usual,
all you have left is finger pointing because you've lost what ever
you had. That is, if you had anything of value to start with other
than what you find off the backs of others.

Your knowledge of electronics is most likely gained from destroying
an untold amount of components and still to this day, you have to
scratch that bold head of yours and wonder what you did with that last
puff of smoke you allowed to escape.

You boast that your an elite in audio design, from what I've seen you
point out. A mear amateur, expert you are not!.

Answer the bloody question IDIOT !

What is a "saturated amplifier" ? You can't even use the right words.

Graham

I proved my point..

You have proved NOTHING and STILL failed to answer the question posed of you several
times now and not once addressed..

Graham

George's Pro Sound Company wrote:

I got to say Jamie compared to you Eyesore is a Rhodes scholar, I havn't
seen anything but pure rubbish from you

and before you go off again like the noon bell at 11:17
there isno love lost between eyesore and myself
George

Thank you for the endorsement George. I recall we got on fine when I first
joined this group. For fear of provoking any further discord I'll avoid
mentioning the name of a certain person who helped upset that.

I was serious about you asking Jim Savery about the solder used by Behringer
for N.A. destined products btw. If you're too busy, could you remind me of his
contact details, email whatever and I'll enquire myself ?

Graham

In article ,
liquidator wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
liquidator wrote:
It is not DC as people who skimmed one book and didn't understand it
want to insist.

Drive an amp hard enough and that's what you effectively get, as far as
the speaker is concerned. Try taking your head out of your arse and use
that scope.


Ignorance is bliss and you are happy the way you are.

I'm afraid you're the one displaying that ignorance. By assuming too many
things.

Simply, you are just plain wrong. You seem to be interested in making
yourself look worse and worse, go on about it with somebody else please.

You've sufficiently proven it to me.

Clipping isn't DC, obvious you never studied engineering. Or physics. Or
much else, it looks like.

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it *very* hard - we're
talking severe overload here - and look at the output. It will approach
the power rails.

Bye. No more time for you. Got real things to do.

Talk about a closed mind.

--
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Eeyore wrote:

liquidator wrote:

"Jamie" t wrote in message
Any one have some hip boots ? my normal boots aren't tall enough!
Jeez- another idiot to killfiter- where are you pointing out what I said was
wrong?

Jamie is notorious (with me at least) for having some very odd ideas sometimes
in the electronics groups. I think he's a little bit out of touch with current
practice in this area.

Graham

See! this is what happens when you crosspost - you get the idiots from
other groups polluting all the groups.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it *very* hard - we're
talking severe overload here - and look at the output. It will approach
the power rails.

It'll be virtually a square wave with almost twice the sinewave power of the
amp but not 'DC' though.

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it *very* hard - we're
talking severe overload here - and look at the output. It will approach
the power rails.

It'll be virtually a square wave with almost twice the sinewave power of the
amp but not 'DC' though.

Graham



Alternating DC

Ron(UK)
Please note smiley (those with SoH failure need not apply)

"Eeyore" wrote in
message

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it *very*
hard - we're talking severe overload here - and look at
the output. It will approach the power rails.

That's what saturated output devices do.

It'll be virtually a square wave with almost twice the
sinewave power of the amp but not 'DC' though.

Right, there will be a sort of sloppy square wave whose spectral content
will depend on the waveform driving the amplifier.

The peak amplitude will be the rail voltages (which will have sagged if
there is a significant load), minus the saturation voltage of the output
devices. If you look closely, there may be some funny stuff where the
output stages snap out of saturation.

This square wave will of course have more energy in it than a sine wave with
a similar peak amplitude.

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in
message

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it *very*
hard - we're talking severe overload here - and look at
the output. It will approach the power rails.

That's what saturated output devices do.

Indeed.

It'll be virtually a square wave with almost twice the
sinewave power of the amp but not 'DC' though.

As far as the speaker coil is concerned it might as well just be. And if
you measure the signal with an analogue meter DC is what you'll see.

Right, there will be a sort of sloppy square wave whose spectral content
will depend on the waveform driving the amplifier.

Agreed.

The peak amplitude will be the rail voltages (which will have sagged if
there is a significant load), minus the saturation voltage of the output
devices. If you look closely, there may be some funny stuff where the
output stages snap out of saturation.

This square wave will of course have more energy in it than a sine wave
with a similar peak amplitude.

Of course you could argue about what practical DC is. Most will have some
form of ripple etc.

--
*When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in
message

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it *very*
hard - we're talking severe overload here - and look at
the output. It will approach the power rails.

That's what saturated output devices do.

Indeed.

It'll be virtually a square wave with almost twice the
sinewave power of the amp but not 'DC' though.

As far as the speaker coil is concerned it might as well just be. And if
you measure the signal with an analogue meter DC is what you'll see.

Right, there will be a sort of sloppy square wave whose spectral content
will depend on the waveform driving the amplifier.

Agreed.

The peak amplitude will be the rail voltages (which will have sagged if
there is a significant load), minus the saturation voltage of the output
devices. If you look closely, there may be some funny stuff where the
output stages snap out of saturation.

This square wave will of course have more energy in it than a sine wave
with a similar peak amplitude.

Of course you could argue about what practical DC is. Most will have some
form of ripple etc.


I`m getting a terrible sense of DejaVu about this thread

ROn

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it *very*
hard - we're talking severe overload here - and look at
the output. It will approach the power rails.

That's what saturated output devices do.

Depends what you call saturate. It'll clip even if anti-saturation measures such
as a Baker Clamp are used.


It'll be virtually a square wave with almost twice the
sinewave power of the amp but not 'DC' though.

Right, there will be a sort of sloppy square wave whose spectral content
will depend on the waveform driving the amplifier.

Yeah. Might conceivably be a bit asymettrical but probably not to a large
degree.


The peak amplitude will be the rail voltages (which will have sagged if
there is a significant load), minus the saturation voltage of the output
devices. If you look closely, there may be some funny stuff where the
output stages snap out of saturation.

Base charge storage. That's what the Baker Clamp stops.


This square wave will of course have more energy in it than a sine wave with
a similar peak amplitude.

Around twice.

Graham

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:09:31 -0500, "George's Pro Sound Company"
wrote:



Glad to hear it. I don't suppose you're a musician who uses Wharfe
gear or repairs pro audio gear for a living, but rather just another
consumer or retailer who has an opinion.

As far as the Behringer gear goes I have no experience with it so
other than seeing a lot of negative comments about it from those who
do use or repair it i have no opinion.

my opionons are formed by the gear I choose to own or not own, I IN FACT
put
my money where my mouth is
I OWN a sr company with a 1/4 million dollars of inventory and events
that
have run into the 100,000 attendence range
be at it over 20 years
I feature mostly Meyer Sound Labs gear for the serious rig and behringer
for
the disposable low end crap
George


LOL!

?????????
George


**** off you bloated bag of gas.


Did you understand that?

I guess your a run of the mill solder jockey whom inhaled to many lead fumes
as a boy
That what your posts indicate

Living well is my best revenge against small minds like yours
George

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2008 12:28:41 -0500, "George's Pro Sound Company"
wrote:


"Meat Plow" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 17:09:31 -0500, "George's Pro Sound Company"
wrote:



Glad to hear it. I don't suppose you're a musician who uses Wharfe
gear or repairs pro audio gear for a living, but rather just another
consumer or retailer who has an opinion.

As far as the Behringer gear goes I have no experience with it so
other than seeing a lot of negative comments about it from those who
do use or repair it i have no opinion.

my opionons are formed by the gear I choose to own or not own, I IN
FACT
put
my money where my mouth is
I OWN a sr company with a 1/4 million dollars of inventory and events
that
have run into the 100,000 attendence range
be at it over 20 years
I feature mostly Meyer Sound Labs gear for the serious rig and
behringer
for
the disposable low end crap
George


LOL!

?????????
George


**** off you bloated bag of gas.


Did you understand that?

I guess your a run of the mill solder jockey whom inhaled to many lead
fumes
as a boy
That what your posts indicate

Living well is my best revenge against small minds like yours
George


IF bloated gas bag replies THEN goto **** off.

I'll give you one credit however, you
rec.audio.tech/alt.audio.pro.live-sound ****heads breath a little
life into s.e.r.


wish we could say the same for the s.e.r merkins
George

"Ron Johnson" wrote in message
...
Eeyore wrote:

liquidator wrote:

"Jamie" t wrote in
message
Any one have some hip boots ? my normal boots aren't tall enough!
Jeez- another idiot to killfiter- where are you pointing out what I
said was
wrong?

Jamie is notorious (with me at least) for having some very odd ideas
sometimes
in the electronics groups. I think he's a little bit out of touch with
current
practice in this area.

Graham

See! this is what happens when you crosspost - you get the idiots from
other groups polluting all the groups.

Can I get an Amen?

Been bitching at Graham to stop this **** for probably a year.

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...

Still saw enough of them in amp racks. Usually with a pair of Boxer fans
blowing on the heatsinks.



Most I ever counted was a festival system, 72 Phase 400's in racks. Not mine
of course, we had two systems, both together were less than half that.

I think we owned about 36, generally 6 on the bench, 6 as spares, 24 in
actual use.

But they were cheaper, lighter, and sounded better than Crowns.

"Ron Johnson" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in
message

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

Sigh. Find a basic DC coupled design and drive it *very*
hard - we're talking severe overload here - and look at
the output. It will approach the power rails.

That's what saturated output devices do.

Indeed.

It'll be virtually a square wave with almost twice the
sinewave power of the amp but not 'DC' though.

As far as the speaker coil is concerned it might as well just be. And if
you measure the signal with an analogue meter DC is what you'll see.

Right, there will be a sort of sloppy square wave whose spectral
content
will depend on the waveform driving the amplifier.

Agreed.

The peak amplitude will be the rail voltages (which will have sagged if
there is a significant load), minus the saturation voltage of the
output
devices. If you look closely, there may be some funny stuff where the
output stages snap out of saturation.

This square wave will of course have more energy in it than a sine wave
with a similar peak amplitude.

Of course you could argue about what practical DC is. Most will have
some
form of ripple etc.


I`m getting a terrible sense of DejaVu about this thread



Yeah, it's been hashed a dozen times, clipping ain't DC, and people with
high levels of knowledge don't say it is.

Just salesmen and and fader jocks. Not real engineers.

In practice, the severely clipped amp won't do a perfect square wave, it
will sag. so the "virtual DC" argument falls flat on it's face...most supply
rails do not have enough storage to sustain a full square wave...some of the
real heavy old iron may.

But I don't talk about old amps to make a point, nobody uses them any more.