[Rick]

Hi

IBM ThinkPad A21m 2628-PRU in question.

I had to replace the main board due to the known "lock up" problems on
some IBM models. Did it by the book - used the IBM Hardware Reference
Manual for disassembly procedures.

Now the display is screwed up. The IBM logo on boot is skewed about 40
degrees and off center. (Interesting look, but not right.) When W2K
loads the right two inches of the display are black. And the display
"scrolls" off the bottom of the screen and isn't visible. In this mode
it looks something like it's displaying 768x1024 instead of 1024x768.
The same thing happens in DOS booted diagnostices - the display runs off
the bottom of the screen, but it does fill the entire screen to the
right edge.

In W2K if I change out of "stretch" mode (Fn + F8) the display shrinks
to about 4" wide by 6" tall, placed on the bottom left of the screen.

Display is normal in all modes on an external monitor. Diagnostics
reports no problems with the VGA system. The back light on the lcd
display is working fine.

On this IBM, probably other IBM's as well, the display panel is
connected to a "sub card" via a *heavy* flat cable. (It's reinforced,
and so stiff it has to be screwed down to the sub card hold it in place.
It's not any kind of thin film type of cable.) The sub card connects to
the main board. The sub card acts as a pass through for the display
connections to the main board, contains the status LED's, and the lid
close switch.

Reseating the sub card and the display panel flat cable hasn't helped.
Lifting or pressing on the flat cable doesn't change anything - the
display is rock solid - but just wrong.

Does this sound like a simple LCD flat cable failure? I haven't ventured
into the insides of the display yet so I don't know if there is a cable
failure lurking in there. Removal of the LCD panel wasn't required -
just the cable connection to the sub card - to replace the main board.
One other point is the IBM reference manual has you putting the display
into positions you wouldn't ever do in routine use - flat open at a 180
degree angle - as part of the disassembly process *before* you can get
access to disconnect the display cable from the sub card.

Anyone seen this problem before on an IBM lap top? Any troubleshooting
suggestions appreciated.

Rick

[Morse]

Rick wrote:

snip


Anyone seen this problem before on an IBM lap top? Any troubleshooting
suggestions appreciated.

Rick

I don't know about IBM laptops, but on HP Omnibook 6000/6100 laptops there's
an eeprom on the mainboard which sometimes has to be flashed (*not* the
system BIOS) when the display is replaced, as manufacturers often source
their LCDs from different manufacturers and specs of replacement displays
may change during product life. When I bought a replacement mainboard for
mine I had to use the HP display update utility (HP don't give it out, I
had to get it from a 3rd party website) to get it to work correctly with
the display as it wasn't configured for it.

This could be completely irrelevant to your situation but perhaps worth
looking into.


Morse

[Rick]

Morse wrote:

Rick wrote:

snip


Anyone seen this problem before on an IBM lap top? Any troubleshooting
suggestions appreciated.

Rick

I don't know about IBM laptops, but on HP Omnibook 6000/6100 laptops there's
an eeprom on the mainboard which sometimes has to be flashed (*not* the
system BIOS) when the display is replaced, as manufacturers often source
their LCDs from different manufacturers and specs of replacement displays
may change during product life. When I bought a replacement mainboard for
mine I had to use the HP display update utility (HP don't give it out, I
had to get it from a 3rd party website) to get it to work correctly with
the display as it wasn't configured for it.

This could be completely irrelevant to your situation but perhaps worth
looking into.

Morse

It might be relevant. Thanks.

Before ordering any main board I called IBM directly to get part
numbers, since their model/type matrix made no sense when looking this
one up in the IBM Hardware Reference Manual. (HRM) The model number on
this machine was only mentioned once in the HRM, as a completely
different configuration than what I have (Less memory, different size
drive, less video memory... Hell it told me I had an A22m, not an A21m.)

IBM told me I had two main board options: One with 8MB video memory -
same as my original - or one with 16MB video memory. IBM tech support
swore up and down that both these main boards were compatible with an
A21m model 2628-PRU.

Since nothing is working right, last night I crossed checked the main
board numbers IBM supplied against the HRM. The 8MB VGA main board cross
referenced to several models of A21m with XGA displays. (Not mine, but
at least they were also A21m's.) The main board with 16MB VGA cross
referenced to only one model: an A21p with a UXGA display...

Someone else suggested that although both the 8MB and 16MB VGA versions
use the same video chipset (ATI Rage Mobility) the 16MB version of the
main board is expecting to run at a different (higher) resolution than
my lap top display and that's what is producing the weird results.

Right now I have no idea if IBM has a similar fix as you had to use. I
do know that they used at least two different XGA displays from
different manufacturers in the model line so IBM might have a reason to
have a similar utility. Sounds like I need to "dumb down" the VGA system
from running at maximum resolution when booting to match the display
parameters.

Rick

[Rick]

Morse wrote:

Rick wrote:

snip


Anyone seen this problem before on an IBM lap top? Any troubleshooting
suggestions appreciated.

Rick

I don't know about IBM laptops, but on HP Omnibook 6000/6100 laptops there's
an eeprom on the mainboard which sometimes has to be flashed (*not* the
system BIOS) when the display is replaced, as manufacturers often source
their LCDs from different manufacturers and specs of replacement displays
may change during product life. When I bought a replacement mainboard for
mine I had to use the HP display update utility (HP don't give it out, I
had to get it from a 3rd party website) to get it to work correctly with
the display as it wasn't configured for it.

This could be completely irrelevant to your situation but perhaps worth
looking into.

Morse

Nevermind. A second call to IBM confirmed that the first idiot I spoke
to at IBM gave me incorrect information. The 16 MB VGA version of the
main board isn't compatible with the display in this lap top.

Rick

[Morse]

"Rick" wrote in message ...

snip

Nevermind. A second call to IBM confirmed that the first idiot I spoke
to at IBM gave me incorrect information. The 16 MB VGA version of the
main board isn't compatible with the display in this lap top.

Rick

Have they agreed to exchange the board for the correct one, Rick? I imagine
this is a frighteningly expensive item? Laptop manufacturers love to fleece
people for spare parts, which is one reason I'm reluctant to replace my
Omnibook 6100. It's been patched up a few times with secondhand spares very
cheaply, and bits are fairly readily available on eBay for them. If I bought
a new one I just know it'd fail one day outside the warranty and I'd be left
with a pile of junk!

Morse

[Rick]

Morse wrote:

"Rick" wrote in message ...

snip

Nevermind. A second call to IBM confirmed that the first idiot I spoke
to at IBM gave me incorrect information. The 16 MB VGA version of the
main board isn't compatible with the display in this lap top.

Rick

Have they agreed to exchange the board for the correct one, Rick? I imagine
this is a frighteningly expensive item? Laptop manufacturers love to fleece
people for spare parts, which is one reason I'm reluctant to replace my
Omnibook 6100. It's been patched up a few times with secondhand spares very
cheaply, and bits are fairly readily available on eBay for them. If I bought
a new one I just know it'd fail one day outside the warranty and I'd be left
with a pile of junk!

Morse

BTW: You were right, in a side ways kind of manner. 8-) The 16 MB
version of the board cross referenced to the only model A21 that came
with a UXGA display. The main board with 8 MB video memory cross
referenced to 4 models that only came with XGA displays. Still didn't
cross reference to my model in the HRM, but that was enough to explain
the display mysteries. The second call to IBM confirmed it - the 16MB
VGA version expects to "see" a UXGA display and can't be dumbed down
with an EEPROM utility to run at a lower resolution.

I went through an IBM parts distributor that sells "refurbished by IBM"
parts and new parts. Translates: IBM tested board with warranty,
possibly a pull. (I asked them what "refurb" meant before I ordered.)
But not an EPay mystery part with the usual "NEW PART BUT I HAVE NO IDEA
IF IT WORKS NO REFUNDS" disclaimer.

The wrong main board as a refurb. cost $155.00 and the correct one is
$151.00. Free shipping. No hassles at all about the return. But the
"Ouch!" is the distributor has a 25% restocking fee policy. I'm going to
ask them if they will knock the restocking fee in half, since I got the
RMA for the wrong board and placed the order for the correct board in
the same phone call. The restocking fee is a bit stiff, but I certainly
wasn't expecting IBM to give me bad information about compatible part
numbers.

New, the main board would have cost $575.00 - just ridiculous.

FWIW they are at:

http://www.serversupply.com/

And sell a ton of stuff and parts - not just for IBM lap tops. Just make
sure you know what you are ordering because of that restocking fee.

Rick

[Morse]

Rick wrote:

snip

I went through an IBM parts distributor that sells "refurbished by IBM"
parts and new parts. Translates: IBM tested board with warranty,
possibly a pull. (I asked them what "refurb" meant before I ordered.)
But not an EPay mystery part with the usual "NEW PART BUT I HAVE NO IDEA
IF IT WORKS NO REFUNDS" disclaimer.

The wrong main board as a refurb. cost $155.00 and the correct one is
$151.00. Free shipping. No hassles at all about the return. But the
"Ouch!" is the distributor has a 25% restocking fee policy.

It's a racket many online companies seem to indulge in. I returned a 19" TFT
monitor to an online seller here in the UK which was completely dead and
tested thoroughly before I returned it to make sure I hadn't screwed up.
They claimed it worked perfectly when they received it back of course, and
tried to keep 60UKP of my money!

One rather insistant phone call later and they agreed to drop the restocking
fee, no doubt because I pointed out this was the second duff monitor they'd
sent me- the first was damaged!

I'm going to
ask them if they will knock the restocking fee in half, since I got the
RMA for the wrong board and placed the order for the correct board in
the same phone call. The restocking fee is a bit stiff, but I certainly
wasn't expecting IBM to give me bad information about compatible part
numbers.


I'd try getting the fee waived, remind them they are getting another sale
and they may relent. You can always fall back on getting it halved if they
won't waive it altogether.

New, the main board would have cost $575.00 - just ridiculous.




Yep, HP charge 800UKP for a display assembly (complete lid) for the Omnibook
6100, and they don't, or at least didn't, sell spare parts like inverters
or backlight tubes so you have to fork out 800 UKP or buy a new laptop.
Even the hinges, which are highly prone to failure, were non-replaceable.

FWIW they are at:

http://www.serversupply.com/

And sell a ton of stuff and parts - not just for IBM lap tops. Just make
sure you know what you are ordering because of that restocking fee.


I had to chuckle at this:

Part No. F1711-69103

Description: HP - PENTIUM II 300MHZ 32KB L1 CACHE 512KB L2 CACHE 66MHZ FSB
SLOT-1 PROCESSOR FOR OMNIBOOK (F1711-69103). REFURBISHED. IN STOCK. 90$

I think that'll be on their shelves long enough to become a valuable
antique. In fact, at that price it looks like it already has!

I'd love to know how one refurbishes a CPU anyway!

Morse

[Michael A. Terrell]

Morse wrote:

I had to chuckle at this:

Part No. F1711-69103

Description: HP - PENTIUM II 300MHZ 32KB L1 CACHE 512KB L2 CACHE 66MHZ FSB
SLOT-1 PROCESSOR FOR OMNIBOOK (F1711-69103). REFURBISHED. IN STOCK. 90$

I think that'll be on their shelves long enough to become a valuable
antique. In fact, at that price it looks like it already has!

I'd love to know how one refurbishes a CPU anyway!


Install a new $3 fan.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

[Rick]

Morse wrote:

"Rick" wrote in message ...

snip

Nevermind. A second call to IBM confirmed that the first idiot I spoke
to at IBM gave me incorrect information. The 16 MB VGA version of the
main board isn't compatible with the display in this lap top.

Rick

Have they agreed to exchange the board for the correct one, Rick? I imagine
this is a frighteningly expensive item? Laptop manufacturers love to fleece
people for spare parts, which is one reason I'm reluctant to replace my
Omnibook 6100. It's been patched up a few times with secondhand spares very
cheaply, and bits are fairly readily available on eBay for them. If I bought
a new one I just know it'd fail one day outside the warranty and I'd be left
with a pile of junk!

Morse

Morse, you seen this one?

Got the replacement board, slapped it in and...

Dead. Well, let's call it barely on life support: The battery charge
indicator works and the battery seems to be charging. At least I know
the thing is getting power. But other than that, hit the power button
and all I get is a split second of the cooling fan doing a twitch and
the hard drive status LED flashes a split second - whether the hard
drive is in the bay or not. Nothing else. None of the other status LED's
light, no screen display - nuttin'.

So far I've reseated the cpu, reseated the mini PCI card, reseated and
then pulled the RAM, pulled the hard drive and CD ROM, pulled the
battery. No change.

I can't see how I could have introduced a short considering the way
ThinkPads assemble. There are only 3 direct board to board connections
and only one plastic insulation shield that goes under the keyboard. All
screws are accounted for.

Having pulled all components that the HRM said to pull and there is
still no change any other suggestions for troubleshooting this? Or does
it seem like a dead main board right out of the bag? What this one is
doing is only slightly different than the won't power up problem with
the original main board that went bad. I'm a little suspicious of the
replacement board because it came with a CMOS battery and the mini PCI
cables already attached - not "stock" items to come with an IBM
replacement main board.

Rick

[bz]

Rick wrote in :

Morse wrote:

"Rick" wrote in message
...

snip

Nevermind. A second call to IBM confirmed that the first idiot I
spoke to at IBM gave me incorrect information. The 16 MB VGA version
of the main board isn't compatible with the display in this lap top.

Rick

Have they agreed to exchange the board for the correct one, Rick? I
imagine this is a frighteningly expensive item? Laptop manufacturers
love to fleece people for spare parts, which is one reason I'm
reluctant to replace my Omnibook 6100. It's been patched up a few times
with secondhand spares very cheaply, and bits are fairly readily
available on eBay for them. If I bought a new one I just know it'd fail
one day outside the warranty and I'd be left with a pile of junk!

Morse

Morse, you seen this one?

Got the replacement board, slapped it in and...

Dead. Well, let's call it barely on life support: The battery charge
indicator works and the battery seems to be charging. At least I know
the thing is getting power. But other than that, hit the power button
and all I get is a split second of the cooling fan doing a twitch and
the hard drive status LED flashes a split second - whether the hard
drive is in the bay or not. Nothing else. None of the other status LED's
light, no screen display - nuttin'.

So far I've reseated the cpu, reseated the mini PCI card, reseated and
then pulled the RAM, pulled the hard drive and CD ROM, pulled the
battery. No change.

I can't see how I could have introduced a short considering the way
ThinkPads assemble. There are only 3 direct board to board connections
and only one plastic insulation shield that goes under the keyboard. All
screws are accounted for.

Having pulled all components that the HRM said to pull and there is
still no change any other suggestions for troubleshooting this? Or does
it seem like a dead main board right out of the bag?

YEP. Other possibility is that 1) battery is bad, can't supply any
significant current AND 2) power adapter is bad, can't supply any
significant current. Try swapping with another unit if you can find anyone
that has one.

What this one is
doing is only slightly different than the won't power up problem with
the original main board that went bad. I'm a little suspicious of the
replacement board because it came with a CMOS battery and the mini PCI
cables already attached - not "stock" items to come with an IBM
replacement main board.

Even with NEW stock, chances of getting a bad replacement are significant.

[you ARE sure you reconnected all the cables, etc., correctly, right? ]




--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

[Rick]

bz wrote:

Rick wrote in :

Morse wrote:

"Rick" wrote in message
...

snip

Nevermind. A second call to IBM confirmed that the first idiot I
spoke to at IBM gave me incorrect information. The 16 MB VGA version
of the main board isn't compatible with the display in this lap top.

Rick

Have they agreed to exchange the board for the correct one, Rick? I
imagine this is a frighteningly expensive item? Laptop manufacturers
love to fleece people for spare parts, which is one reason I'm
reluctant to replace my Omnibook 6100. It's been patched up a few times
with secondhand spares very cheaply, and bits are fairly readily
available on eBay for them. If I bought a new one I just know it'd fail
one day outside the warranty and I'd be left with a pile of junk!

Morse

Morse, you seen this one?

Got the replacement board, slapped it in and...

Dead. Well, let's call it barely on life support: The battery charge
indicator works and the battery seems to be charging. At least I know
the thing is getting power. But other than that, hit the power button
and all I get is a split second of the cooling fan doing a twitch and
the hard drive status LED flashes a split second - whether the hard
drive is in the bay or not. Nothing else. None of the other status LED's
light, no screen display - nuttin'.

So far I've reseated the cpu, reseated the mini PCI card, reseated and
then pulled the RAM, pulled the hard drive and CD ROM, pulled the
battery. No change.

I can't see how I could have introduced a short considering the way
ThinkPads assemble. There are only 3 direct board to board connections
and only one plastic insulation shield that goes under the keyboard. All
screws are accounted for.

Having pulled all components that the HRM said to pull and there is
still no change any other suggestions for troubleshooting this? Or does
it seem like a dead main board right out of the bag?

YEP. Other possibility is that 1) battery is bad, can't supply any
significant current AND 2) power adapter is bad, can't supply any
significant current. Try swapping with another unit if you can find anyone
that has one.

Hi

Actually I did - I have two ThinkPads that use the same battery and PS -
no difference.

After I sent this I did two other things I forgot about: Pulled the CMOS
battery. And tried the "secret" IBM trick to reset a stuck ThinkPad -
remove battery pack and AC power, hit the power on button 10 times.
Didn't help.

What this one is
doing is only slightly different than the won't power up problem with
the original main board that went bad. I'm a little suspicious of the
replacement board because it came with a CMOS battery and the mini PCI
cables already attached - not "stock" items to come with an IBM
replacement main board.

Even with NEW stock, chances of getting a bad replacement are significant.

Really? On new stock parts? See below about this particular part though:

[you ARE sure you reconnected all the cables, etc., correctly, right? ]

--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

This made me so paranoid I even checked to make sure I didn't insert the
"can only be inserted one way" cpu wrong. But thanks for asking. 8-)

For all the "chinese puzzle box" disassenbly/assembly procedures you
have to go through on ThinkPads there are next to no cables or
connections you can screw up. The only cable connects stand out -
because they have to be addressed in the disassembly/assembly. And those
are only a ribbon for the floppy (in this model), a ribbon to the LCD
display, a single cable for speakers and mic., and a cable to the mini
PCI card. All keyed, of course. That's it for cables. The only other
connections are 3 board to board snap in connections. All I'm saying is
that after you have done it once it's practically impossible to do it
wrong. But I checked anyway. 8-)

I think I got a dud board that someone returned for a refund when they
swapped it with their own defective board. (Not like that's ever
happened before...) I looked further at the packaging and it leads me to
believe it was a restock and not a direct from IBM part as promised. I
also checked the IBM part number on it and it's the same number as the
board I'm trying to replace. Which means it has the same inherent defect
that led my original board to fail. I already know IBM has a different
FRU number for the redesigned board.

Since I can't do much of anything else at this point, I'm going to drop
my original board back in just to see if all the peripherals are still
ok. That board will at least boot, it's just a question of how long it
will run before it locks up hard. (Lotso IBM ThinkPads out there with
this "feature.") So if it powers up with the old board I know they sent
me a dud.

Onto board number *three* when I call this place on Tuesday. In case you
missed it: Board #1 was ordered based on IBM saying it was compatible
with this model ThinkPad. It wasn't. Worked, but wasn't compatible with
the display. Board #2 - current dud. Board #3....?

I'm either persistent or insane.

Rick

[bz]

Rick wrote in :

I'm either persistent or insane.

third choice: every one else is crazy!

Good luck and it looks like you won't be bored for the next few days.





--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

[Rick]

bz wrote:

Rick wrote in :

I'm either persistent or insane.

third choice: every one else is crazy!

Good luck and it looks like you won't be bored for the next few days.

--
bz 73 de N5BZ k


Pulled it out, swapped back to the original board - everything works as
well as it can with the original main board. At least it confirmed the
main board they sent was definitely a dud. What a tedious PITA this is
getting to be...

Rick