Hello all

I am stumped as to how to charge for a job. Let me give you the
scenario:

Customer recently changed to Earthlink DSL/wireless and although they
were able to get DSL working, they could not get the wireless to work.
Since October they had spent a number of hours on the tech help line
(to India) and nothing suggested worked. Windows XP home edition, Dell
computer, Syslink wireless router.

I was asked to come in to finish the installation. Following the
Earthlink manual, I set up the wiring from the DSL modem to the router.
Not only did the wireless not work, but Earthlink kept trying to dial
out on a regular old-style modem. I re-installed software. No change.
I de-installed software and began to re-install and got a blue screen.


System was completely down. Could not run in any of the Safe Modes,
couldn't boot off last know good config -- everything I did continued
to result in the dreaded blue screen. I ran disk, cpu, memory diags
and found now hardware error. I ran Dell diags, no errors.
Apparently, the boot strap was corrupted and there was no way to get
into Windows.

FOUR HOURS

I removed the hard drive, purchased a SATA-USB cable and recovery
software and was able to recover customer's personal data.

2 HOURS

I returned to customer, re-installed XP and reloaded data. Unable to
connect to Earthlink via DSL -- repeated calls unanswered, as Earthlink
had a service outage (unknown location) and no help desk available

2 HOURS

Returned the next day, got the DSL working, spent over an hour with
Earthlink techs on wireless problem, who then fobbed me off on Linksys
tech line. After 45 minutes, Linksys tech determined wireless router
was defective (!!!!)

Called Earthlink, got a Return Material Authorization number and had
them agree to send new, working wireless router and take back original
defective router.

3 HOURS

Okay, so I have spent 12 hours on this call so far and still the
wireless system is not up. What is fair in this billing? This has
been a very good customer and I believe that she will send me other
clients, but I still need to recover some of the time/money spent so
far.

How many hours (so far) would be a fair price?

Thanks for any suggestions you might have

On 12/14/06 3:38 PM, in article
, "Morgan"
wrote:

Hello all

I am stumped as to how to charge for a job. Let me give you the
scenario:

Customer recently changed to Earthlink DSL/wireless and although they
were able to get DSL working, they could not get the wireless to work.
Since October they had spent a number of hours on the tech help line
(to India) and nothing suggested worked. Windows XP home edition, Dell
computer, Syslink wireless router.

I was asked to come in to finish the installation. Following the
Earthlink manual, I set up the wiring from the DSL modem to the router.
Not only did the wireless not work, but Earthlink kept trying to dial
out on a regular old-style modem. I re-installed software. No change.
I de-installed software and began to re-install and got a blue screen.


System was completely down. Could not run in any of the Safe Modes,
couldn't boot off last know good config -- everything I did continued
to result in the dreaded blue screen. I ran disk, cpu, memory diags
and found now hardware error. I ran Dell diags, no errors.
Apparently, the boot strap was corrupted and there was no way to get
into Windows.

FOUR HOURS

I removed the hard drive, purchased a SATA-USB cable and recovery
software and was able to recover customer's personal data.

2 HOURS

I returned to customer, re-installed XP and reloaded data. Unable to
connect to Earthlink via DSL -- repeated calls unanswered, as Earthlink
had a service outage (unknown location) and no help desk available

2 HOURS

Returned the next day, got the DSL working, spent over an hour with
Earthlink techs on wireless problem, who then fobbed me off on Linksys
tech line. After 45 minutes, Linksys tech determined wireless router
was defective (!!!!)

Called Earthlink, got a Return Material Authorization number and had
them agree to send new, working wireless router and take back original
defective router.

3 HOURS

Okay, so I have spent 12 hours on this call so far and still the
wireless system is not up. What is fair in this billing? This has
been a very good customer and I believe that she will send me other
clients, but I still need to recover some of the time/money spent so
far.

How many hours (so far) would be a fair price?

Thanks for any suggestions you might have


It appears you have not improved the customer's situation, so I suggest you
chalk it off to education and charge nothing.

Been there, done that.

Don

"Don Bowey" wrote in message
...
On 12/14/06 3:38 PM, in article
, "Morgan"
wrote:

Hello all

I am stumped as to how to charge for a job. Let me give you the
scenario:

Customer recently changed to Earthlink DSL/wireless and although they
were able to get DSL working, they could not get the wireless to work.
Since October they had spent a number of hours on the tech help line
(to India) and nothing suggested worked. Windows XP home edition, Dell
computer, Syslink wireless router.

I was asked to come in to finish the installation. Following the
Earthlink manual, I set up the wiring from the DSL modem to the router.
Not only did the wireless not work, but Earthlink kept trying to dial
out on a regular old-style modem. I re-installed software. No change.
I de-installed software and began to re-install and got a blue screen.


System was completely down. Could not run in any of the Safe Modes,
couldn't boot off last know good config -- everything I did continued
to result in the dreaded blue screen. I ran disk, cpu, memory diags
and found now hardware error. I ran Dell diags, no errors.
Apparently, the boot strap was corrupted and there was no way to get
into Windows.

FOUR HOURS

I removed the hard drive, purchased a SATA-USB cable and recovery
software and was able to recover customer's personal data.

2 HOURS

I returned to customer, re-installed XP and reloaded data. Unable to
connect to Earthlink via DSL -- repeated calls unanswered, as Earthlink
had a service outage (unknown location) and no help desk available

2 HOURS

Returned the next day, got the DSL working, spent over an hour with
Earthlink techs on wireless problem, who then fobbed me off on Linksys
tech line. After 45 minutes, Linksys tech determined wireless router
was defective (!!!!)

Called Earthlink, got a Return Material Authorization number and had
them agree to send new, working wireless router and take back original
defective router.

3 HOURS

Okay, so I have spent 12 hours on this call so far and still the
wireless system is not up. What is fair in this billing? This has
been a very good customer and I believe that she will send me other
clients, but I still need to recover some of the time/money spent so
far.

How many hours (so far) would be a fair price?

Thanks for any suggestions you might have


It appears you have not improved the customer's situation, so I suggest
you
chalk it off to education and charge nothing.

Been there, done that.

Don


Sometimes, if you really believe that you are going to get business of a
greater value than the time already lost, you just have to take it on the
chin, and put it down to life in the service industry. If you supplied the
defective equipment, you can always try taking it up with the rep of the
company that supplied you, and put it to him that you have lost considerable
money on the job, but have gone to great lengths not to give them a bad name
with your customer. You might be able to persuade them to give you some
compensation by way of parting with some other goods, that you can then sell
on at proper retail price. Worth a try, but sadly, I think that you probably
won't get far, and you are going to have to put up for the next week with
your wife telling you how stupid and gullible you are ... Been there, done
that, got the tee shirt ...

Arfa

I would take off the first 4 hours - as the work you did actually did
harm to the user's computer (although data, and problem was later
corrected, and this wasn't directly your fault). This is sort of "down
time" and nothing good was accomplished. I would add the remaining
hours (as you were accomplishing something for the client) and give a
50% discount (for the inconvenience / problems incurred). So 12 hrs -
4=8. 8/2 =4 - so I would charge 4 hours. Pretty good deal for your
customer - 2/3 off. Your customer should be happy in the end as she got
what she wanted - with a good deal - and you will get what you want -
future referrals.

Best!

In article .com,
"Morgan" wrote:

Hello all

I am stumped as to how to charge for a job. Let me give you the
scenario:

Customer recently changed to Earthlink DSL/wireless and although they
were able to get DSL working, they could not get the wireless to work.
Since October they had spent a number of hours on the tech help line
(to India) and nothing suggested worked. Windows XP home edition, Dell
computer, Syslink wireless router.

I was asked to come in to finish the installation. Following the
Earthlink manual, I set up the wiring from the DSL modem to the router.
Not only did the wireless not work, but Earthlink kept trying to dial
out on a regular old-style modem. I re-installed software. No change.
I de-installed software and began to re-install and got a blue screen.


System was completely down. Could not run in any of the Safe Modes,
couldn't boot off last know good config -- everything I did continued
to result in the dreaded blue screen. I ran disk, cpu, memory diags
and found now hardware error. I ran Dell diags, no errors.
Apparently, the boot strap was corrupted and there was no way to get
into Windows.

FOUR HOURS

I removed the hard drive, purchased a SATA-USB cable and recovery
software and was able to recover customer's personal data.

2 HOURS

I returned to customer, re-installed XP and reloaded data. Unable to
connect to Earthlink via DSL -- repeated calls unanswered, as Earthlink
had a service outage (unknown location) and no help desk available

2 HOURS

Returned the next day, got the DSL working, spent over an hour with
Earthlink techs on wireless problem, who then fobbed me off on Linksys
tech line. After 45 minutes, Linksys tech determined wireless router
was defective (!!!!)

Called Earthlink, got a Return Material Authorization number and had
them agree to send new, working wireless router and take back original
defective router.

3 HOURS

Okay, so I have spent 12 hours on this call so far and still the
wireless system is not up. What is fair in this billing? This has
been a very good customer and I believe that she will send me other
clients, but I still need to recover some of the time/money spent so
far.

How many hours (so far) would be a fair price?

Thanks for any suggestions you might have

admin wrote:
I would take off the first 4 hours - as the work you did actually did
harm to the user's computer (although data, and problem was later
corrected, and this wasn't directly your fault). This is sort of "down
time" and nothing good was accomplished. I would add the remaining
hours (as you were accomplishing something for the client) and give a
50% discount (for the inconvenience / problems incurred). So 12 hrs -
4=8. 8/2 =4 - so I would charge 4 hours. Pretty good deal for your
customer - 2/3 off. Your customer should be happy in the end as she got
what she wanted - with a good deal - and you will get what you want -
future referrals.

Hi...

Being a bit of the devil's advocate, I'd respectfully suggest
that he instead write it all off as a learning experience,
(including finishing the job), and hope that the customer
remains sufficiently pleased to provide references and leads.

My rationale would be that I (again, respectfully) think that
it sounds like the OP bit off more than he could chew. As the
customer I'd expect that a faulty piece of hardware be almost
immediately identified, and further that a "pro" would come
equipped with spares that he could swap. Or at least have
sure access to them without undue delay.

Once again I say with absolutely no disrespect - take your lumps,
learn from it, and carry on

Take care.

Ken
(long retired, and happily not working in today's environment

"Morgan" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello all



System was completely down. Could not run in any of the Safe Modes,
couldn't boot off last know good config -- everything I did continued
to result in the dreaded blue screen. I ran disk, cpu, memory diags
and found now hardware error. I ran Dell diags, no errors.
Apparently, the boot strap was corrupted and there was no way to get
into Windows.

FOUR HOURS

I removed the hard drive, purchased a SATA-USB cable and recovery
software and was able to recover customer's personal data.

2 HOURS

I returned to customer, re-installed XP and reloaded data. Unable to
connect to Earthlink via DSL -- repeated calls unanswered, as Earthlink
had a service outage (unknown location) and no help desk available


Before you began the job did you check the customer had a good back up?
Did you simply ask if there was a good back up or did you check their back
up was good and up to date.
Obviously not.

Therefore 0 hours for DR.

Telephone hold time, use a speakerphone and work on another job at the same
time. Billing rate $10/hr.

What did it cost your client for their lost computer time?

I agree with "admin" - probably 4 hours for a total bill and only submit it
once the customer is online and satisfied they are able to work again.

Hopefully that will lead to further referrals.

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:59:11 -0800, Don Bowey
wrote:

On 12/14/06 3:38 PM, in article
.com, "Morgan"
wrote:

Hello all

I am stumped as to how to charge for a job. Let me give you the
scenario:

Customer recently changed to Earthlink DSL/wireless and although they
were able to get DSL working, they could not get the wireless to work.
Since October they had spent a number of hours on the tech help line
(to India) and nothing suggested worked. Windows XP home edition, Dell
computer, Syslink wireless router.

I was asked to come in to finish the installation. Following the
Earthlink manual, I set up the wiring from the DSL modem to the router.
Not only did the wireless not work, but Earthlink kept trying to dial
out on a regular old-style modem. I re-installed software. No change.
I de-installed software and began to re-install and got a blue screen.


System was completely down. Could not run in any of the Safe Modes,
couldn't boot off last know good config -- everything I did continued
to result in the dreaded blue screen. I ran disk, cpu, memory diags
and found now hardware error. I ran Dell diags, no errors.
Apparently, the boot strap was corrupted and there was no way to get
into Windows.

FOUR HOURS

I removed the hard drive, purchased a SATA-USB cable and recovery
software and was able to recover customer's personal data.

2 HOURS

I returned to customer, re-installed XP and reloaded data. Unable to
connect to Earthlink via DSL -- repeated calls unanswered, as Earthlink
had a service outage (unknown location) and no help desk available

2 HOURS

Returned the next day, got the DSL working, spent over an hour with
Earthlink techs on wireless problem, who then fobbed me off on Linksys
tech line. After 45 minutes, Linksys tech determined wireless router
was defective (!!!!)

Called Earthlink, got a Return Material Authorization number and had
them agree to send new, working wireless router and take back original
defective router.

3 HOURS

Okay, so I have spent 12 hours on this call so far and still the
wireless system is not up. What is fair in this billing? This has
been a very good customer and I believe that she will send me other
clients, but I still need to recover some of the time/money spent so
far.

How many hours (so far) would be a fair price?

Thanks for any suggestions you might have


It appears you have not improved the customer's situation, so I suggest you
chalk it off to education and charge nothing.

Been there, done that.

Don
Charge $100 and explain that you usually get $50 per hour on home
calls with a $50 minumum but since they are new customers, you are
going to give them a break. Then charge the $50 per hour with minimum
for all other service calls. But, it has been my experience that they
will call a $100 per hour guy next time instead of calling you
back...nature of the beast... even seen friends do the same thing...
J.P.

Hi all

Thanks for the advice. Fortunately (and happily) the customer is VERY
satisfied and impressed that once the OS blew up, I didn't just throw
up my hands and tell them to call the Geek Squad. Couldn't even
imagine not fixing a problem that happened on my watch.

It just shows to go you that no matter how long you have been working
on these things (and I have been working on electronics and computers
for 25 years), there's always something new to bite you in the butt.
And now that I have had a real taste of Earthlink (both in their
equipment choices and their tech support processes), I will be doubly
wary of them.

I think I will charge them for the backup, since they did not know how
to do it and I set it up to do automatically (up to a server) without
intervention, and time on the phone (at a much reduced rate).

Cheers and happy holidays

"Morgan" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all

Thanks for the advice. Fortunately (and happily) the customer is VERY
satisfied and impressed that once the OS blew up, I didn't just throw
up my hands and tell them to call the Geek Squad. Couldn't even
imagine not fixing a problem that happened on my watch.

It just shows to go you that no matter how long you have been working
on these things (and I have been working on electronics and computers
for 25 years), there's always something new to bite you in the butt.
And now that I have had a real taste of Earthlink (both in their
equipment choices and their tech support processes), I will be doubly
wary of them.

I think I will charge them for the backup, since they did not know how
to do it and I set it up to do automatically (up to a server) without
intervention, and time on the phone (at a much reduced rate).

Cheers and happy holidays


Great that it worked out for you. The BSOD will scare the C*** out of any
client most times.

I charge a rate somewhat less than the Geek squad for backup configuration -
and the configuration I am working on is as you suggest a few keyboard
strokes and the job is done.

Your initial post gave me the impression of a newbie, rather than an
experienced pro with one of those jobs that did not go right!

Happy holidays, and may your clients only call on boxing day rather than at
midnight on Christmas eve!

hdtv? wrote:
"Morgan" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all

Thanks for the advice. Fortunately (and happily) the customer is
VERY satisfied and impressed that once the OS blew up, I didn't just
throw up my hands and tell them to call the Geek Squad. Couldn't
even imagine not fixing a problem that happened on my watch.

It just shows to go you that no matter how long you have been working
on these things (and I have been working on electronics and computers
for 25 years), there's always something new to bite you in the butt.
And now that I have had a real taste of Earthlink (both in their
equipment choices and their tech support processes), I will be doubly
wary of them.

I think I will charge them for the backup, since they did not know
how to do it and I set it up to do automatically (up to a server)
without intervention, and time on the phone (at a much reduced rate).

Cheers and happy holidays


Great that it worked out for you. The BSOD will scare the C*** out of
any client most times.

I charge a rate somewhat less than the Geek squad for backup
configuration - and the configuration I am working on is as you
suggest a few keyboard strokes and the job is done.

Your initial post gave me the impression of a newbie, rather than an
experienced pro with one of those jobs that did not go right!

Happy holidays, and may your clients only call on boxing day rather
than at midnight on Christmas eve!

I have BSOD screensaver. Scares the crap out of people...

(Tee-Hee...)

Mark Z.

hdtv? wrote:
Before you began the job did you check the customer had a good back up?
Did you simply ask if there was a good back up or did you check their back
up was good and up to date.

Better uninstall the hard drive, install a new blank one and restore the
data to make sure. While you're at it, make sure they're not running any
mission-critical applications or system software in background, that
their computer isn't internally radio-linked to any other entities, that
all the data they possess is valid and undamaged and that their installation
of Windows has never had a BSOD or had an application lock up.

If you're going to go to silly lengths, go all the way.

--
Asking Iran and Syria to help us succeed in Iraq is like your local fire
department asking a couple of arsonists to help put out the fire.
-- Joe Lieberman

"clifto" wrote in message
...
hdtv? wrote:
Before you began the job did you check the customer had a good back up?
Did you simply ask if there was a good back up or did you check their
back
up was good and up to date.

Better uninstall the hard drive, install a new blank one and restore the
data to make sure. While you're at it, make sure they're not running any
mission-critical applications or system software in background, that
their computer isn't internally radio-linked to any other entities, that
all the data they possess is valid and undamaged and that their
installation
of Windows has never had a BSOD or had an application lock up.

If you're going to go to silly lengths, go all the way.

--
Asking Iran and Syria to help us succeed in Iraq is like your local fire
department asking a couple of arsonists to help put out the fire.
-- Joe Lieberman

yep go ahead and accept the liability for a $100k or $500k data loss. I
don't!

If you don't check your clients backup how do you know they in fact have a
recent and recoverable backup?