Hi,

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specicfied frequency in
kHz range ?
Is it posssible to make one on myself, or find someone to make it ?
What is a minimum order quantity for a crystal/c eramic resonator for a
specified frequency (kHz) ?
Please help me.

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 11:34:36 -0800, la-la wrote:

Hi,

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specicfied frequency in
kHz range ?
Is it posssible to make one on myself, or find someone to make it ?
What is a minimum order quantity for a crystal/c eramic resonator for a
specified frequency (kHz) ?
Please help me.

Try a CD4060 - http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/CD/CD4060BC.pdf

Then you can use a sane crystal freq. ;-)

Or, you could look into "tuning fork crystals", which is the type of the
32.768KHz crystal in your wris****ch.

Good Luck!
Rich

la-la wrote:
Hi,

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specicfied frequency in
kHz range ?
Is it posssible to make one on myself, or find someone to make it ?
What is a minimum order quantity for a crystal/c eramic resonator for a
specified frequency (kHz) ?
Please help me.


We have many tens of thousands of crystal oscillator modules in stock at
fifty cents each.

Our lowest frequencies are 28.8 kHz, 108 kHz, 153.6 kHz, 250 kHz, 256
kHz, 307.2 kHz, 326.4 kHz plus hundreds of higher frequencies.

In general, it is usually cheaper and simpler to use a higher frequency
and a CMOS binary divider.

Also in general, if your system does not use a crystal frequency of
32.768 kHz or 3.59545 MHz, you should flush it and start over.



--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email:

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

Don Lancaster wrote:
la-la wrote:

Hi,

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specicfied frequency in
kHz range ?
Is it posssible to make one on myself, or find someone to make it ?
What is a minimum order quantity for a crystal/c eramic resonator for a
specified frequency (kHz) ?
Please help me.


We have many tens of thousands of crystal oscillator modules in stock at
fifty cents each.

Our lowest frequencies are 28.8 kHz, 108 kHz, 153.6 kHz, 250 kHz, 256
kHz, 307.2 kHz, 326.4 kHz plus hundreds of higher frequencies.

In general, it is usually cheaper and simpler to use a higher frequency
and a CMOS binary divider.

Also in general, if your system does not use a crystal frequency of
32.768 kHz or 3.59545 MHz, you should flush it and start over.



Oops.

Should be 3.579545 of course.


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email:

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

On a sunny day (Wed, 15 Nov 2006 13:19:46 -0700) it happened Don Lancaster
wrote in :

Also in general, if your system does not use a crystal frequency of
32.768 kHz or 3.59545 MHz, you should flush it and start over.

Poor guy ;-)

Don Lancaster wrote in
:

Don Lancaster wrote:
la-la wrote:

Hi,

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specicfied frequency
in kHz range ?
Is it posssible to make one on myself, or find someone to make it ?
What is a minimum order quantity for a crystal/c eramic resonator
for a specified frequency (kHz) ?
Please help me.


We have many tens of thousands of crystal oscillator modules in stock
at fifty cents each.

Our lowest frequencies are 28.8 kHz, 108 kHz, 153.6 kHz, 250 kHz, 256
kHz, 307.2 kHz, 326.4 kHz plus hundreds of higher frequencies.

In general, it is usually cheaper and simpler to use a higher
frequency and a CMOS binary divider.

Also in general, if your system does not use a crystal frequency of
32.768 kHz or 3.59545 MHz, you should flush it and start over.



Oops.

Should be 3.579545 of course.



32.768 kHz is 2^15 Hz

Where does 3.579545 MHz come from?

Don Lancaster wrote:

la-la wrote:
Hi,

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specicfied frequency in
kHz range ?
Is it posssible to make one on myself, or find someone to make it ?
What is a minimum order quantity for a crystal/c eramic resonator for a
specified frequency (kHz) ?
Please help me.


We have many tens of thousands of crystal oscillator modules in stock at
fifty cents each.

Our lowest frequencies are 28.8 kHz, 108 kHz, 153.6 kHz, 250 kHz, 256
kHz, 307.2 kHz, 326.4 kHz plus hundreds of higher frequencies.

In general, it is usually cheaper and simpler to use a higher frequency
and a CMOS binary divider.

Also in general, if your system does not use a crystal frequency of
32.768 kHz or 3.59545 MHz, you should flush it and start over.


So, if I need a 4 MHz clock for a CPU, I should scrap it and make it a
lot more complex to use a color burst crystal? How about those 10- MHz
frequency standards? Show me a SIMPLE design for a TCXO to proved a low
distortion 10 MHz signal from a 3.5795454545 crystal. Yes, i know that
it can be done, but why? There are dozens of common, off the shelf
crystal frequencies that are dirt cheap.



--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

la-la wrote:

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specified frequency in
kHz range ?

The speed of sound in quartz is (depending on shear vs. compression
wave)
400 to 600 m/second; so a quartz slab resonant at 3.579 MHz is a tenth
of
a millimeter thick. Those (AT cut typically) are mass-produced for
television
sets, and are inexpensive and available off the shelf.

At 15 kHz, an AT quartz resonator would need to be (in size) about 200
times that,
2 cm thick (and broader than it is thick, so it'd be a Frisbee-sized
disk). They don't
make those, as far as I know. Normal mortals couldn't afford one.

For wris****ches, a tuning-fork is used, and one can micromachine it
from quartz
and laser-trim its weighted tines for frequency and couple to it using
the quartz
material's piezoelectric properties. Those are mechanical oscillators
with
non-quartz parts, but they still get called 'quartz resonators'. The
common
frequencies are mass-produced, and that means 32.000 kHz and 32.768
are available, but not the lower frequencies you ask about.

The typical resonators used for 5 kHz are tuning forks and guitar
strings, or they
aren't mechanical at all...

"Don Lancaster" wrote in message
...
Also in general, if your system does not use a crystal frequency of 32.768
kHz or 3.59545 MHz, you should flush it and start over.

Not all of us are trying to build TV Typewriters for $5 or less, Don. :-)

But if you can find me some way to get VHF and low UHF signals down to a 45MHz
IF with 32kHz and colorburst crystals, I'd love to hear it!

At 15 kHz, an AT quartz resonator would need to be (in size) about 200
times that,
2 cm thick (and broader than it is thick, so it'd be a Frisbee-sized
disk). They don't
make those, as far as I know. Normal mortals couldn't afford one.

This guy came close , quartz ring, not a frisbee, but close :

http://www.btinternet.com/~time.lord/QuartzRings.html

Steve Roberts

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:32:49 +0000, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Don Lancaster wrote:
la-la wrote:

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specicfied frequency in
kHz range ?
Is it posssible to make one on myself, or find someone to make it ?
What is a minimum order quantity for a crystal/c eramic resonator for a
specified frequency (kHz) ?
Please help me.

We have many tens of thousands of crystal oscillator modules in stock at
fifty cents each.

Our lowest frequencies are 28.8 kHz, 108 kHz, 153.6 kHz, 250 kHz, 256
kHz, 307.2 kHz, 326.4 kHz plus hundreds of higher frequencies.

In general, it is usually cheaper and simpler to use a higher frequency
and a CMOS binary divider.

Also in general, if your system does not use a crystal frequency of
32.768 kHz or 3.59545 MHz, you should flush it and start over.

So, if I need a 4 MHz clock for a CPU, I should scrap it and make it a
lot more complex to use a color burst crystal? How about those 10- MHz
frequency standards? Show me a SIMPLE design for a TCXO to proved a low
distortion 10 MHz signal from a 3.5795454545 crystal. Yes, i know that
it can be done, but why? There are dozens of common, off the shelf
crystal frequencies that are dirt cheap.

But color burst crystals are free, if the neighbor tosses their TV. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

wrote:
At 15 kHz, an AT quartz resonator would need to be (in size) about 200
times that,
2 cm thick (and broader than it is thick, so it'd be a Frisbee-sized
disk). They don't
make those, as far as I know. Normal mortals couldn't afford one.


This guy came close , quartz ring, not a frisbee, but close :

http://www.btinternet.com/~time.lord/QuartzRings.html

Steve Roberts


Statek used to be the original source for tuning fork style crystals,
which is what you need at low kilohertz frequencies.

http://www.statek.com/

--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email:

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 17:20:44 -0700, Don Lancaster
wrote:

wrote:
At 15 kHz, an AT quartz resonator would need to be (in size) about 200
times that,
2 cm thick (and broader than it is thick, so it'd be a Frisbee-sized
disk). They don't
make those, as far as I know. Normal mortals couldn't afford one.


This guy came close , quartz ring, not a frisbee, but close :

http://www.btinternet.com/~time.lord/QuartzRings.html

Steve Roberts


Statek used to be the original source for tuning fork style crystals,
which is what you need at low kilohertz frequencies.

http://www.statek.com/

---
You beat me to it!

These are wonderful people.


--
JF

thanks whit3rd.
Tuning fork is exactly what I need but still as an electronic
component.
Is it possible to place an order for a specified frequency tuned tuning
fork
or retune, fine retune one already manufactured.
Is machining, laser burning a good way to retune one tuning work to a
preferred frequency ?
Clock resonators are quite small (built as tuning forks).
Does it mean I can expect 5Khz, 10Khz, 15Khz tuning fork to be of the
like size ?
And is it feasible to place an order for a sample of pretuned kHz
tuning forks with one company, lab or a private person and them
manufactured and develivered at a reasonable price and in foreseeable
future ?
Thanks once again for your kind input.

wrote:
la-la wrote:

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specified frequency in
kHz range ?

The speed of sound in quartz is (depending on shear vs. compression
wave)
400 to 600 m/second; so a quartz slab resonant at 3.579 MHz is a tenth
of
a millimeter thick. Those (AT cut typically) are mass-produced for
television
sets, and are inexpensive and available off the shelf.

At 15 kHz, an AT quartz resonator would need to be (in size) about 200
times that,
2 cm thick (and broader than it is thick, so it'd be a Frisbee-sized
disk). They don't
make those, as far as I know. Normal mortals couldn't afford one.

For wris****ches, a tuning-fork is used, and one can micromachine it
from quartz
and laser-trim its weighted tines for frequency and couple to it using
the quartz
material's piezoelectric properties. Those are mechanical oscillators
with
non-quartz parts, but they still get called 'quartz resonators'. The
common
frequencies are mass-produced, and that means 32.000 kHz and 32.768
are available, but not the lower frequencies you ask about.

The typical resonators used for 5 kHz are tuning forks and guitar
strings, or they
aren't mechanical at all...

Don Lancaster wrote:

Don Lancaster wrote:

Also in general, if your system does not use a crystal frequency of
32.768 kHz or 3.59545 MHz, you should flush it and start over.


Oops.

Should be 3.579545 of course.

What's wrong with 4.433618 MHz ?

Graham

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Don Lancaster wrote:

la-la wrote:
Hi,

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specicfied frequency in
kHz range ?
Is it posssible to make one on myself, or find someone to make it ?
What is a minimum order quantity for a crystal/c eramic resonator for a
specified frequency (kHz) ?
Please help me.


We have many tens of thousands of crystal oscillator modules in stock at
fifty cents each.

Our lowest frequencies are 28.8 kHz, 108 kHz, 153.6 kHz, 250 kHz, 256
kHz, 307.2 kHz, 326.4 kHz plus hundreds of higher frequencies.

In general, it is usually cheaper and simpler to use a higher frequency
and a CMOS binary divider.

Also in general, if your system does not use a crystal frequency of
32.768 kHz or 3.59545 MHz, you should flush it and start over.

So, if I need a 4 MHz clock for a CPU, I should scrap it and make it a
lot more complex to use a color burst crystal? How about those 10- MHz
frequency standards? Show me a SIMPLE design for a TCXO to proved a low
distortion 10 MHz signal from a 3.5795454545 crystal. Yes, i know that
it can be done, but why? There are dozens of common, off the shelf
crystal frequencies that are dirt cheap.

In reality TV crystals are no cheaper than other popular frequencies.

I've normally used 4, 8, 12 and 16 MHz for my microcontoller designs and there
have been no problems either sourcing them or with the price.

Graham

Eeyore wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Don Lancaster wrote:

la-la wrote:
Hi,

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specicfied frequency in
kHz range ?
Is it posssible to make one on myself, or find someone to make it ?
What is a minimum order quantity for a crystal/c eramic resonator for a
specified frequency (kHz) ?
Please help me.


We have many tens of thousands of crystal oscillator modules in stock at
fifty cents each.

Our lowest frequencies are 28.8 kHz, 108 kHz, 153.6 kHz, 250 kHz, 256
kHz, 307.2 kHz, 326.4 kHz plus hundreds of higher frequencies.

In general, it is usually cheaper and simpler to use a higher frequency
and a CMOS binary divider.

Also in general, if your system does not use a crystal frequency of
32.768 kHz or 3.59545 MHz, you should flush it and start over.

So, if I need a 4 MHz clock for a CPU, I should scrap it and make it a
lot more complex to use a color burst crystal? How about those 10- MHz
frequency standards? Show me a SIMPLE design for a TCXO to proved a low
distortion 10 MHz signal from a 3.5795454545 crystal. Yes, i know that
it can be done, but why? There are dozens of common, off the shelf
crystal frequencies that are dirt cheap.

In reality TV crystals are no cheaper than other popular frequencies.

I've normally used 4, 8, 12 and 16 MHz for my microcontoller designs and there
have been no problems either sourcing them or with the price.

Graham


If you only need one or two, you can usually pull a crystal or two
from a jun TV set for free. I probably have 100 on hand from dead TV
sets.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

In reality TV crystals are no cheaper than other popular frequencies.

I've normally used 4, 8, 12 and 16 MHz for my microcontoller designs and there
have been no problems either sourcing them or with the price.

Graham

If you only need one or two, you can usually pull a crystal or two
from a jun TV set for free. I probably have 100 on hand from dead TV
sets.

I don't build stuff with salvaged parts though.

Graham

la-la wrote:

thanks whit3rd.
Tuning fork is exactly what I need but still as an electronic
component.
Is it possible to place an order for a specified frequency tuned tuning
fork
or retune, fine retune one already manufactured.
Is machining, laser burning a good way to retune one tuning work to a
preferred frequency ?
Clock resonators are quite small (built as tuning forks).
Does it mean I can expect 5Khz, 10Khz, 15Khz tuning fork to be of the
like size ?
And is it feasible to place an order for a sample of pretuned kHz
tuning forks with one company, lab or a private person and them
manufactured and develivered at a reasonable price and in foreseeable
future ?
Thanks once again for your kind input.

time you told us why you want one of this freq. Without that, who knows
what options are most suitable. App, quantity, tolerance and so on.


NT

Eeyore wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Eeyore wrote:

In reality TV crystals are no cheaper than other popular frequencies.

I've normally used 4, 8, 12 and 16 MHz for my microcontoller designs and there
have been no problems either sourcing them or with the price.

Graham

If you only need one or two, you can usually pull a crystal or two
from a jun TV set for free. I probably have 100 on hand from dead TV
sets.

I don't build stuff with salvaged parts though.

Graham


I will use them for prototypes, or to repair my personal equipment.
The failure rate on crystals is so low that it doesn't make sense to buy
a new part, when I have something on hand that is likely to outlast the
equipment.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Ok.
Nothing special. Just testing wireless power/energy transfer, following
Tesla's ideas and one developed recently at MIT.
I am testing acoustic frequencies at first.

wrote:
la-la wrote:

thanks whit3rd.
Tuning fork is exactly what I need but still as an electronic
component.
Is it possible to place an order for a specified frequency tuned tuning
fork
or retune, fine retune one already manufactured.
Is machining, laser burning a good way to retune one tuning work to a
preferred frequency ?
Clock resonators are quite small (built as tuning forks).
Does it mean I can expect 5Khz, 10Khz, 15Khz tuning fork to be of the
like size ?
And is it feasible to place an order for a sample of pretuned kHz
tuning forks with one company, lab or a private person and them
manufactured and develivered at a reasonable price and in foreseeable
future ?
Thanks once again for your kind input.

time you told us why you want one of this freq. Without that, who knows
what options are most suitable. App, quantity, tolerance and so on.


NT

la-la wrote:

Ok.
Nothing special. Just testing wireless power/energy transfer, following
Tesla's ideas and one developed recently at MIT.
I am testing acoustic frequencies at first.


Why do you need crystals? A tunable audio generator, of function
generator would work well at those frequencies.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

On 16 Nov 2006 01:27:03 -0800, "la-la"
wrote:

Ok.
Nothing special. Just testing wireless power/energy transfer, following
Tesla's ideas and one developed recently at MIT.
I am testing acoustic frequencies at first.


Since this is just a test, and since you are using audio
frequencies, why not just use a standard audio function
generator? If you really need a stable audio frequency,
you might want to check out my DaqGen freeware.
It generates audio frequency waveforms with your
Windows soundcard. Frequency stability is excellent
since it derives from the crystal in the sound card.
And unlike a homebrew circuit, you can get low-distortion
sine waves, or just about any other waveshape you can
imagine. Then if your experiments uncover anything
worth following up, you can always build a dedicated
circuit when you know just what the ideal parameters are.

Best regards,



Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom

D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
www.daqarta.com
Home of DaqGen, the FREEWARE signal generator

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
:


Why do you need crystals? A tunable audio generator, of function
generator would work well at those frequencies.



Hi Michael, this is completely off topic, but I have beeen trying to send
an order to you over two weeks...is your email working..I am the guy from
Australia.

On a sunny day (Thu, 16 Nov 2006 02:46:07 +0000) it happened Eeyore
wrote in
:



Don Lancaster wrote:

Don Lancaster wrote:

Also in general, if your system does not use a crystal frequency of
32.768 kHz or 3.59545 MHz, you should flush it and start over.


Oops.

Should be 3.579545 of course.

What's wrong with 4.433618 MHz ?

Graham

In fact most analog PAL TVs will have a 8.86 MHz xtal.
Makes it easier to get 90 degrees.
As for the OP remark, makes no sense.
If you want a one second tick, and for example have a FPGA on board,
it is one line of verilog from a 50MHz xtal.
Not much more lines of ASM in a PIC with a 20 MHz xtal.
Depending on how much jitter is allowed you can make a nice synthesiser
too in FPGA for many frequencies (higher the xtal too).
And finally the color subcarrier... will likely not be needed much longer,
its is all going digital, or at least Y Cr Cb, not composite.

la-la wrote:
Hi,

how to make a crystal /ceramic oscilator for a specicfied frequency in
kHz range ?
Is it posssible to make one on myself, or find someone to make it ?
What is a minimum order quantity for a crystal/c eramic resonator for a
specified frequency (kHz) ?
Please help me.

Many useful frequencies from 20kHz on up are standard stock items at
digikey. Less than a dollar for a standard value.

Custom ordering one is possible, but will typically be $100+ or so and
will have a turnaround time measured in a week or two.

If you just want a square-wave oscillator there are many techniques
(including user-programmable or distributor-programmable oscillator
modules) that may do the job depending on your phase noise/jitter
requirements.

If you want a sine wave oscillator there are numerically programmed
direct digital synthesizers for a few bucks that do well for many (but
not all) applications.

Tim.

la-la wrote:
wrote:

time you told us why you want one of this freq. Without that, who knows
what options are most suitable. App, quantity, tolerance and so on.

Ok.
Nothing special. Just testing wireless power/energy transfer, following
Tesla's ideas and one developed recently at MIT.
I am testing acoustic frequencies at first.

then you dont need this xtal at all.


NT