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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html |
#2
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote: Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of thermodynamics. No it doesn't. Graham |
#3
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:
Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of thermodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html Just where exactly does it suggest that? |
#4
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
Mark Fortune wrote: The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote: Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of thermodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html Just where exactly does it suggest that? Just follow this link: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550 |
#5
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
The Flavored Coffee Guy ha escrito: Mark Fortune wrote: The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote: Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of thermodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html Just where exactly does it suggest that? Just follow this link: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550 Please, be serious... Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No magic there, no thermodynamics law violation. |
#6
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote: Mark Fortune wrote: The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote: Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of thermodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html Just where exactly does it suggest that? Just follow this link: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550 Which shows a Dell laptop catching fire ! So ? I'm all ears ! Do tell what I'm supposed to infer from that. Graham |
#7
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
lithium cells have worried me from day one
of course trying to make a clever post without being clever i knew someone would post about the flaming dells but not in such a odd way well it worked we all fell for the troll who is more supid? the troll or the first to respond to the troll? or the first person to comment on the troll responder? |
#8
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
wrote:
lithium cells have worried me from day one of course trying to make a clever post without being clever i knew someone would post about the flaming dells but not in such a odd way well it worked we all fell for the troll who is more supid? the troll or the first to respond to the troll? or the first person to comment on the troll responder? From The Register http://www.theregister.com/2006/08/18/letters_1708/ Laptops roasting it's an open fire Acrid fumes assail your nose Melting chips smell like burning tires and Techs dressed in asbestos clothes Everybody knows short circuits in a battery Help to make the office bright End users with their cubes all aglow Will find it hard to work tonight They know a recall's on its way Before the desk is charcoaled in a blaze And every engineer is gonna spy To see if laptops really know how to fry And so I'm remembering this simple phrase like geeks from one to ninety two Although we dread it many times many ways Yeah, we're getting a Dell, Dude! Grant |
#9
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
Please, be serious... Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No magic there, no thermodynamics law violation. It's a violation of the laws of thermodynamics as soon as something that it's made of melts and it's not supposed to, or something burns when it's not supposed to, even though they built that way. |
#10
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
lsmartino wrote: The Flavored Coffee Guy ha escrito: Mark Fortune wrote: The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote: Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of thermodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html Just where exactly does it suggest that? Just follow this link: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550 Please, be serious... Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No magic there, no thermodynamics law violation. Then putting new batteries in the computer won't do any good, will it? If it's the charger, it built into the computer, not the battery. |
#11
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in message oups.com... Please, be serious... Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No magic there, no thermodynamics law violation. It's a violation of the laws of thermodynamics as soon as something that it's made of melts and it's not supposed to, or something burns when it's not supposed to, even though they built that way. HOW, pray tell? Please try to follow with me on the following brief chain of reasoning. 1. Plastics typically will melt if you get them hot enough. 2. A laptop battery, when charged, contains quite a considerable amount of energy. 3. If you let that energy out in a rapid, uncontrolled fashion, it's not unreasonable to think that things in the immediate vicinity are going to get hot. 4. Given the above, we might expect to see any plastics in the vicinity - including, say, those that formed the case of the battery in question - melting. OK, at what point in the above did we violate the laws of thermogoddamics? Bob M. |
#12
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in message ups.com... Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No magic there, no thermodynamics law violation. Then putting new batteries in the computer won't do any good, will it? If it's the charger, it built into the computer, not the battery. If you make the assumption that it IS a flaw external to the battery which caused the problem in this particuar case, you'd be right. On what grounds are you assuming this? (Hint: the statement "any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged" does not equate to "the only thing that can cause the failure of a lithium battery is a bad charger." You DO see that little word "defective" in the above, which refers to the battery itself, right?) Bob M. |
#13
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote: It's a violation of the laws of thermodynamics as soon as something that it's made of melts and it's not supposed to, or something burns when it's not supposed to, even though they built that way. Don't be absurd ! Graham |
#14
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote: lsmartino wrote: Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No magic there, no thermodynamics law violation. Then putting new batteries in the computer won't do any good, will it? If it's the charger, it built into the computer, not the battery. Most laptop batteries contain the charging circuitry. This is essential since it needs to monitor the battery temperature and *terrminal* voltage precisely in order to charge it quickly and safely. The ac power unit is just that, not a 'charger' at all. So, replacing the 'battery' does indeed fix the problem. Graham |
#15
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
The Flavored Coffee Guy ha escrito: Please, be serious... Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No magic there, no thermodynamics law violation. It's a violation of the laws of thermodynamics as soon as something that it's made of melts and it's not supposed to, or something burns when it's not supposed to, even though they built that way. I´m sure you will not understand this link, but anyway here it goes for the benefit of other readers: http://www.powerstream.com/li.htm |
#16
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in message ups.com... lsmartino wrote: The Flavored Coffee Guy ha escrito: Mark Fortune wrote: The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote: Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of thermodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html Just where exactly does it suggest that? Just follow this link: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550 Please, be serious... Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No magic there, no thermodynamics law violation. Then putting new batteries in the computer won't do any good, will it? If it's the charger, it built into the computer, not the battery. Li packs have electronics on board that dictate charge termination (Li batteries are not "floated"). Changing the battery out will introduce new charge termination electronics. |
#17
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
Bob Myers wrote:
"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in message ups.com... Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No magic there, no thermodynamics law violation. Then putting new batteries in the computer won't do any good, will it? If it's the charger, it built into the computer, not the battery. If you make the assumption that it IS a flaw external to the battery which caused the problem in this particuar case, you'd be right. On what grounds are you assuming this? (Hint: the statement "any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged" does not equate to "the only thing that can cause the failure of a lithium battery is a bad charger." You DO see that little word "defective" in the above, which refers to the battery itself, right?) Bob M. These batteries are "intelligent", they have onboard management which is used to control the charging circuit. |
#18
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
"James Sweet" wrote in message news:byuFg.350$St4.28@trnddc01... (Hint: the statement "any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged" does not equate to "the only thing that can cause the failure of a lithium battery is a bad charger." You DO see that little word "defective" in the above, which refers to the battery itself, right?) Bob M. These batteries are "intelligent", they have onboard management which is used to control the charging circuit. And that affects what I'd said how, exactly? Bob M. |
#19
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
Bob Myers wrote: "James Sweet" wrote in message news:byuFg.350$St4.28@trnddc01... (Hint: the statement "any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged" does not equate to "the only thing that can cause the failure of a lithium battery is a bad charger." You DO see that little word "defective" in the above, which refers to the battery itself, right?) These batteries are "intelligent", they have onboard management which is used to control the charging circuit. And that affects what I'd said how, exactly? What's he's saying is the battery contains it own charging circuitry inside. If you change the battery, you're also changing the charger at the same time. Graham |
#20
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... These batteries are "intelligent", they have onboard management which is used to control the charging circuit. And that affects what I'd said how, exactly? What's he's saying is the battery contains it own charging circuitry inside. If you change the battery, you're also changing the charger at the same time. Yes, thank you, that's precisely how I interpreted it, too. The question above still stands, though. Bob M. |
#21
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote: Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of thermodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html I read on a black history site once that a black man...George Washington Cleveland Jefferson Evans...actually invented a perpetual motion machine is 1875 but the white man burnt his home lab down in order to keep this revolutionary device from being invented with the credit going to an african american.....~: I would have at least went in and took all his research materials..working models etc... before lynching him and his family then burning his house down. |
#22
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
Bob Myers wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message ... These batteries are "intelligent", they have onboard management which is used to control the charging circuit. And that affects what I'd said how, exactly? What's he's saying is the battery contains it own charging circuitry inside. If you change the battery, you're also changing the charger at the same time. Yes, thank you, that's precisely how I interpreted it, too. The question above still stands, though. A recall would presumably be replacing 'dodgy' units I suppose. Graham |
#23
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
wrote in message oups.com... I read on a black history site once that a black man...George Washington Cleveland Jefferson Evans...actually invented a perpetual motion machine is 1875 but the white man burnt his home lab down in order to keep this revolutionary device from being invented with the credit going to an african american.....~: I would have at least went in and took all his research materials..working models etc... before lynching him and his family then burning his house down. Perpetual motion machines seem like a perfect way to keep black men from making a living assuming that is your aim! |
#24
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
lsmartino wrote: The Flavored Coffee Guy ha escrito: Please, be serious... Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No magic there, no thermodynamics law violation. It's a violation of the laws of thermodynamics as soon as something that it's made of melts and it's not supposed to, or something burns when it's not supposed to, even though they built that way. I´m sure you will not understand this link, but anyway here it goes for the benefit of other readers: http://www.powerstream.com/li.htm Thank you very much for the powerstream link, Very good place for answers to many of long term questions. They have some great online calculators . |
#26
Posted to sci.electronics.basics,sci.electronics.repair,sci.energy,sci.environment
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Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
wrote:
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote: Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of thermodynamics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html I read on a black history site once that a black man...George Washington Cleveland Jefferson Evans...actually invented a perpetual motion machine is 1875 but the white man burnt his home lab down in order to keep this revolutionary device from being invented with the credit going to an african american.....~: I would have at least went in and took all his research materials..working models etc... before lynching him and his family then burning his house down. No, it was the first over unity machine, and it worked so well that the excess energy set the house on fire. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
#27
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Lithium Batteries.
Inside the battery there is monitoring circuitry to monitor each cell's terminal voltage. If the terminal voltage deviates slightly from the designed terminal voltage, either above or below by approx 0.05Volt, Lithium metal is deposited out of solution onto one of the electrodes. As internally the battery is moist, as it has to be (Electrolyte), even if only a gell, the Lithium metal reacts violently resulting in a fire. This why a Lithium cell shuts down when there is a slight failure, rather than dying slowly as in NiMh or NiCd batteries. Also if the battery gets too hot in operation, it gets to a point where thermal runaway occurs, simply making itself hotter by itself. Lithium metal deposition once again will occur resulting inb a fire. Jim. |
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