Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:

Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics.

No it doesn't.

Graham

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:
Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html


Just where exactly does it suggest that?

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

Mark Fortune wrote:
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:
Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html


Just where exactly does it suggest that?

Just follow this link:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

The Flavored Coffee Guy ha escrito:

Mark Fortune wrote:
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:
Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html


Just where exactly does it suggest that?

Just follow this link:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550

Please, be serious...

Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No
magic there, no thermodynamics law violation.

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:

Mark Fortune wrote:
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:
Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html

Just where exactly does it suggest that?

Just follow this link:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550

Which shows a Dell laptop catching fire !

So ? I'm all ears ! Do tell what I'm supposed to infer from that.

Graham

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

lithium cells have worried me from day one

of course trying to make a clever post without being clever i knew
someone would post about the flaming dells but not in such a odd way

well it worked we all fell for the troll

who is more supid? the troll or the first to respond to the troll? or
the first person to comment on the troll responder?

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

wrote:
lithium cells have worried me from day one

of course trying to make a clever post without being clever i knew
someone would post about the flaming dells but not in such a odd way

well it worked we all fell for the troll

who is more supid? the troll or the first to respond to the troll? or
the first person to comment on the troll responder?

From The Register http://www.theregister.com/2006/08/18/letters_1708/

Laptops roasting it's an open fire
Acrid fumes assail your nose
Melting chips smell like burning tires and
Techs dressed in asbestos clothes

Everybody knows short circuits in a battery
Help to make the office bright
End users with their cubes all aglow
Will find it hard to work tonight

They know a recall's on its way
Before the desk is charcoaled in a blaze
And every engineer is gonna spy
To see if laptops really know how to fry

And so I'm remembering this simple phrase
like geeks from one to ninety two
Although we dread it many times many ways
Yeah, we're getting a Dell, Dude!

Grant

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

Please, be serious...

Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No
magic there, no thermodynamics law violation.

It's a violation of the laws of thermodynamics as soon as something
that it's made of melts and it's not supposed to, or something burns
when it's not supposed to, even though they built that way.

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

lsmartino wrote:
The Flavored Coffee Guy ha escrito:

Mark Fortune wrote:
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:
Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html


Just where exactly does it suggest that?

Just follow this link:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550

Please, be serious...

Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No
magic there, no thermodynamics law violation.

Then putting new batteries in the computer won't do any good, will it?
If it's the charger, it built into the computer, not the battery.

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in message
oups.com...

Please, be serious...

Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No
magic there, no thermodynamics law violation.

It's a violation of the laws of thermodynamics as soon as something
that it's made of melts and it's not supposed to, or something burns
when it's not supposed to, even though they built that way.

HOW, pray tell? Please try to follow with me on the following
brief chain of reasoning.

1. Plastics typically will melt if you get them hot enough.

2. A laptop battery, when charged, contains quite a considerable
amount of energy.

3. If you let that energy out in a rapid, uncontrolled fashion, it's
not unreasonable to think that things in the immediate vicinity
are going to get hot.

4. Given the above, we might expect to see any plastics in
the vicinity - including, say, those that formed the case of the
battery in question - melting.

OK, at what point in the above did we violate the laws of
thermogoddamics?

Bob M.

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No
magic there, no thermodynamics law violation.

Then putting new batteries in the computer won't do any good, will it?
If it's the charger, it built into the computer, not the battery.

If you make the assumption that it IS a flaw external to the battery
which caused the problem in this particuar case, you'd be right.
On what grounds are you assuming this?

(Hint: the statement "any lithium battery will explode if defective or
improperly charged" does not equate to "the only thing that can
cause the failure of a lithium battery is a bad charger." You DO
see that little word "defective" in the above, which refers to the
battery itself, right?)

Bob M.

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:

It's a violation of the laws of thermodynamics as soon as something
that it's made of melts and it's not supposed to, or something burns
when it's not supposed to, even though they built that way.

Don't be absurd !

Graham

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:

lsmartino wrote:

Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No
magic there, no thermodynamics law violation.

Then putting new batteries in the computer won't do any good, will it?
If it's the charger, it built into the computer, not the battery.

Most laptop batteries contain the charging circuitry. This is essential since it
needs to monitor the battery temperature and *terrminal* voltage precisely in
order to charge it quickly and safely.

The ac power unit is just that, not a 'charger' at all.

So, replacing the 'battery' does indeed fix the problem.

Graham

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

The Flavored Coffee Guy ha escrito:


Please, be serious...

Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No
magic there, no thermodynamics law violation.

It's a violation of the laws of thermodynamics as soon as something
that it's made of melts and it's not supposed to, or something burns
when it's not supposed to, even though they built that way.


I´m sure you will not understand this link, but anyway here it goes
for the benefit of other readers:

http://www.powerstream.com/li.htm

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in message
ups.com...

lsmartino wrote:
The Flavored Coffee Guy ha escrito:

Mark Fortune wrote:
The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:
Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html


Just where exactly does it suggest that?

Just follow this link:
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=32550

Please, be serious...

Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No
magic there, no thermodynamics law violation.

Then putting new batteries in the computer won't do any good, will it?
If it's the charger, it built into the computer, not the battery.


Li packs have electronics on board that dictate charge termination (Li
batteries are not "floated").
Changing the battery out will introduce new charge termination electronics.

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

Bob Myers wrote:
"The Flavored Coffee Guy" wrote in message
ups.com...

Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No
magic there, no thermodynamics law violation.

Then putting new batteries in the computer won't do any good, will it?
If it's the charger, it built into the computer, not the battery.


If you make the assumption that it IS a flaw external to the battery
which caused the problem in this particuar case, you'd be right.
On what grounds are you assuming this?

(Hint: the statement "any lithium battery will explode if defective or
improperly charged" does not equate to "the only thing that can
cause the failure of a lithium battery is a bad charger." You DO
see that little word "defective" in the above, which refers to the
battery itself, right?)

Bob M.





These batteries are "intelligent", they have onboard management which is
used to control the charging circuit.

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:byuFg.350$St4.28@trnddc01...

(Hint: the statement "any lithium battery will explode if defective or
improperly charged" does not equate to "the only thing that can
cause the failure of a lithium battery is a bad charger." You DO
see that little word "defective" in the above, which refers to the
battery itself, right?)

Bob M.


These batteries are "intelligent", they have onboard management which is
used to control the charging circuit.

And that affects what I'd said how, exactly?

Bob M.

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

Bob Myers wrote:

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:byuFg.350$St4.28@trnddc01...

(Hint: the statement "any lithium battery will explode if defective or
improperly charged" does not equate to "the only thing that can
cause the failure of a lithium battery is a bad charger." You DO
see that little word "defective" in the above, which refers to the
battery itself, right?)


These batteries are "intelligent", they have onboard management which is
used to control the charging circuit.

And that affects what I'd said how, exactly?

What's he's saying is the battery contains it own charging circuitry inside. If
you change the battery, you're also changing the charger at the same time.

Graham

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...
These batteries are "intelligent", they have onboard management which
is
used to control the charging circuit.

And that affects what I'd said how, exactly?

What's he's saying is the battery contains it own charging circuitry
inside. If
you change the battery, you're also changing the charger at the same time.

Yes, thank you, that's precisely how I interpreted it, too.
The question above still stands, though.

Bob M.

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:
Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html

I read on a black history site once that a black man...George
Washington Cleveland Jefferson Evans...actually invented a perpetual
motion machine is 1875 but the white man burnt his home lab down in
order to keep this revolutionary device from being invented with the
credit going to an african american.....~:

I would have at least went in and took all his research
materials..working models etc... before lynching him and his family
then burning his house down.

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

Bob Myers wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message ...
These batteries are "intelligent", they have onboard management which
is
used to control the charging circuit.

And that affects what I'd said how, exactly?

What's he's saying is the battery contains it own charging circuitry
inside. If
you change the battery, you're also changing the charger at the same time.

Yes, thank you, that's precisely how I interpreted it, too.
The question above still stands, though.

A recall would presumably be replacing 'dodgy' units I suppose.

Graham

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

I read on a black history site once that a black man...George
Washington Cleveland Jefferson Evans...actually invented a perpetual
motion machine is 1875 but the white man burnt his home lab down in
order to keep this revolutionary device from being invented with the
credit going to an african american.....~:

I would have at least went in and took all his research
materials..working models etc... before lynching him and his family
then burning his house down.

Perpetual motion machines seem like a perfect way to keep black men from
making a living assuming that is your aim!

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

lsmartino wrote:
The Flavored Coffee Guy ha escrito:


Please, be serious...

Any lithium battery will explode if defective or improperly charged. No
magic there, no thermodynamics law violation.

It's a violation of the laws of thermodynamics as soon as something
that it's made of melts and it's not supposed to, or something burns
when it's not supposed to, even though they built that way.


I´m sure you will not understand this link, but anyway here it goes
for the benefit of other readers:

http://www.powerstream.com/li.htm
Thank you very much for the powerstream link, Very good place for
answers to many of long term questions. They have some great online
calculators .

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

On 2006-08-20, wrote:

The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:
Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html

I read on a black history site once that a black man...George
Washington Cleveland Jefferson Evans...actually invented a perpetual
motion machine is 1875 but the white man burnt his home lab down in
order to keep this revolutionary device from being invented with the
credit going to an african american.....~:

Sounds like a fishermans tale to me...
You should have seen the size of the one that got away.

--

Bye.
Jasen

Dell's first attempt to market perpetual motion
 

wrote:

The Flavored Coffee Guy wrote:
Dell's Laptop Battery violates either the first or second laws of
thermodynamics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

http://news.com.com/2061-11199_3-6105653.html

I read on a black history site once that a black man...George
Washington Cleveland Jefferson Evans...actually invented a perpetual
motion machine is 1875 but the white man burnt his home lab down in
order to keep this revolutionary device from being invented with the
credit going to an african american.....~:

I would have at least went in and took all his research
materials..working models etc... before lynching him and his family
then burning his house down.


No, it was the first over unity machine, and it worked so well that
the excess energy set the house on fire.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Lithium Batteries.
Inside the battery there is monitoring circuitry to monitor each cell's terminal voltage. If the terminal voltage deviates slightly from the designed terminal voltage, either above or below by approx 0.05Volt, Lithium metal is deposited out of solution onto one of the electrodes. As internally the battery is moist, as it has to be (Electrolyte), even if only a gell, the Lithium metal reacts violently resulting in a fire. This why a Lithium cell shuts down when there is a slight failure, rather than dying slowly as in NiMh or NiCd batteries. Also if the battery gets too hot in operation, it gets to a point where thermal runaway occurs, simply making itself hotter by itself. Lithium metal deposition once again will occur resulting inb a fire.

Jim.