[crossposted:sci.electronics.repair,sci.electronics .design ;
followups-to:sci.electronics.repair

I went to Fry's to get a new motherboard, and installed it and it
didn't work. I didn't have a clue, so I took the whole schmear down
to a computer repair place, and for $45.00, he diagnosed it - I had
apparently shorted out the new motherboard when I installed it in the
old case, because one of the brass threaded studs was in the wrong
place. I asked the tech, should I take it back to Fry's and not
tell them that I blew it up? He says, "Of course. Take the whole
thing - don't disassemble it (MB, CPU, and 512 MB.) just play
the guy who don't know nothing: 'I assembled this just like the
instructions, and it doesn't work. Can you make it go?'" So, I
paid the guy for the diagnosis (actually, they only accepted cash,
and I didn't have exact change, so the guy let me get out for $40
and I owe him five) and went back up to Fry's, and customer service
checked it out on the spot - they have a test stand right there that
you can walk up to. I was looking over this tech's shoulder, as
she plugged in a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and power supply, and
it came up and the BIOS announced the RAM and that there were no
drives plugged in, and there was no boot device, please press F1
to continue.

I'm gonna go back to that repair place who charged me $40.00 to
tell me that the motherboard was hosed and it was my fault, and
see what kind of deal I can strike, pardon the language.

Anyway, I figured out at Fry's that there's another connection I
have to make, which I neglected the first time I put the board
in the case, and the MB won't run without it, but the old case's
power supply didn't have that connector, so I ass-u-me-d that I
could get away without it. Please don't tell anyone I was so
f**king stupid, thanks.

Anyways, I take out the old PS, trundle back on up to Fry's, and
by this time, I've found the shortcut through the foothills, which
is way more scenic and shady than the freeway, and actually I think
I made better time - I go to get a PS, and they've got a 450 Watt
unit already mounted in a case, for $34.99 plus tax. I got one of
the droids, and asked, "See this power supply?" "Yes." "Can I get
this power supply without the case?" "Yes, but it's more expensive."

In other words, the cheapest PS they had on its own cost more than
one already mounted in a brand-new case.

So now, I have essentially a new computer for less than $200.00.

But here's the rub:

I've seen motherboards get screwed into cases on studs, which I have
in the old case. The new case doesn't have studs, but it's got a bag
of really nifty little pieces of hardware, amongst which are at least
four little plastic standoffs, obviously intended to mount the MB on.

So, finally, to the question: If it were up to you, would you take the
brass studs out of the old case and screw them into the new case, or
would you use the plastic standoffs? My major worry, of course, is
grounding the MB to the case.

The plastic ones will probably be easier, but if anybody is adamant
about using the brass studs, I'd be happy to read it here.

Thanks!
Rich

I usually have one or two brass studs and the rest plastic standoffs. When
you use a brass one, make sure you know what it's contacting.

Fry's occasionally has really good loss leaders on cases with power supplies
in it. The next time the Astec Sonata comes up for $35 or so, I'm going to
move my computer into one. Is that the one you saw? Is the deal going on
right now? I only get to Fry's every few weeks (50 miles away) but there's
a window of opportunity tomorrow.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:10:03 -0400, mc wrote:

I usually have one or two brass studs and the rest plastic standoffs. When
you use a brass one, make sure you know what it's contacting.

Fry's occasionally has really good loss leaders on cases with power supplies
in it. The next time the Astec Sonata comes up for $35 or so, I'm going to
move my computer into one. Is that the one you saw? Is the deal going on
right now? I only get to Fry's every few weeks (50 miles away) but there's
a window of opportunity tomorrow.

It's about as generic as a no-name Chinese case can get. I just went to
look, and when I looked more closely at that little pile of really cute
hardware, I saw a handful of brass standoffs, and some fiber washers.
(fibre?) So, I think, the fibre washers go on the insulated ... wait a
minute - the threads are still metal-to-metal.

The MB did come with a big manual, though - it might say which pads
are OK to ground.

Just looked at outpost.com, and didn't see the item - it might be a
clearance thing. But I bet you could call them on the landline. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

It's about as generic as a no-name Chinese case can get. I just went to
look, and when I looked more closely at that little pile of really cute
hardware, I saw a handful of brass standoffs, and some fiber washers.
(fibre?) So, I think, the fibre washers go on the insulated ... wait a
minute - the threads are still metal-to-metal.

The threads are metal-to-metal but the insulating washers keep the studs
from contacting more of the motherboard than they're supposed to.

"Rich Grise" wrote in message
news
So, finally, to the question: If it were up to you, would you take the
brass studs out of the old case and screw them into the new case, or
would you use the plastic standoffs? My major worry, of course, is
grounding the MB to the case.

The plastic ones will probably be easier, but if anybody is adamant
about using the brass studs, I'd be happy to read it here.


Inspect the mounting holes on the motherboard. The ones that are surrounded
by a ring of metal/solder pad are intended to be grounding points and brass
standoffs can be used. If any of the holes are just PCB, or have PCB tracks
running near the hole, use plastic standoffs, or brass standoffs with
insulating washers if necessary. In the latter case, it doesn't hurt to use
insulating washers on the screw as well to prevent track damage on the top
of the motherboard.

I'm not sure I like the idea of using nothing but insulating standoffs-
there are surely EMI issues here.

Dave

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:34:16 -0400, mc wrote:

It's about as generic as a no-name Chinese case can get. I just went to
look, and when I looked more closely at that little pile of really cute
hardware, I saw a handful of brass standoffs, and some fiber washers.
(fibre?) So, I think, the fibre washers go on the insulated ... wait a
minute - the threads are still metal-to-metal.

The threads are metal-to-metal but the insulating washers keep the studs
from contacting more of the motherboard than they're supposed to.

Well, the latest in my continuing saga is that I bothered to RTFM on the
motherboard, and it says, in the second paragraph of chapter 1, "The
board can be mounted to the case using either studs or plastic standoffs.
Studs are recommended. To determine which your case uses, hold the board
in position, and look through the holes. If the case has threaded holes,
use studs. If the case has slots, use the plastic standoffs. The slots
allow the board to be slid into position for final mounting."

How F'ing Duh can you get? ;-)

So, I used the studs, and have a little supply of fiber washers, since
I couldn't imagine balancing one on top of a stud while I jockey
the board into position. The pads are quite substantial, so there's
no danger of a short.

When I finally fired it up, not only did it work, but it booted the
original W2K on the hard drive! I expected it to complain about the
new hardware, but all it did was report that it needed drivers, and
I just stuck in the CD that came with the MB, and I'm totally up
and running!

So, I'm going to be a lot more moderate in the future about my criticism
of Fry's - maybe they ship crap, and maybe their salesdroids are BK
rejects, but if you take it back to them, they do have at least one
tech, who will make it go. :-)

Now, I have to go back and see how much of my $40.00 I can get back
from the guy who told me the MB was hosed and it was my fault. :-[

Thanks,
Rich

Rich Grise wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 16:34:16 -0400, mc wrote:

It's about as generic as a no-name Chinese case can get. I just went to
look, and when I looked more closely at that little pile of really cute
hardware, I saw a handful of brass standoffs, and some fiber washers.
(fibre?) So, I think, the fibre washers go on the insulated ... wait a
minute - the threads are still metal-to-metal.
The threads are metal-to-metal but the insulating washers keep the studs
from contacting more of the motherboard than they're supposed to.

Well, the latest in my continuing saga is that I bothered to RTFM on the
motherboard, and it says, in the second paragraph of chapter 1, "The
board can be mounted to the case using either studs or plastic standoffs.
Studs are recommended. To determine which your case uses, hold the board
in position, and look through the holes. If the case has threaded holes,
use studs. If the case has slots, use the plastic standoffs. The slots
allow the board to be slid into position for final mounting."

How F'ing Duh can you get? ;-)

So, I used the studs, and have a little supply of fiber washers, since
I couldn't imagine balancing one on top of a stud while I jockey
the board into position. The pads are quite substantial, so there's
no danger of a short.

When I finally fired it up, not only did it work, but it booted the
original W2K on the hard drive! I expected it to complain about the
new hardware, but all it did was report that it needed drivers, and
I just stuck in the CD that came with the MB, and I'm totally up
and running!

So, I'm going to be a lot more moderate in the future about my criticism
of Fry's - maybe they ship crap, and maybe their salesdroids are BK
rejects, but if you take it back to them, they do have at least one
tech, who will make it go. :-)

Now, I have to go back and see how much of my $40.00 I can get back
from the guy who told me the MB was hosed and it was my fault. :-[

Hi Rich...

I think you'll find that the fiber washers were intended to go
under the screw head

Take care.

Ken

Rich Grise wrote:


So, finally, to the question: If it were up to you, would you take the
brass studs out of the old case and screw them into the new case, or
would you use the plastic standoffs? My major worry, of course, is
grounding the MB to the case.

The plastic ones will probably be easier, but if anybody is adamant
about using the brass studs, I'd be happy to read it here.

Thanks!
Rich


Now we are on mechanics.
The varieties of studs both have their function.
The brass or metal ones keep the board steady against movement when
inserting or removing the PS/2, USB, serial, parallel, video and audio
plugs and providing ground connections to case.
The plastic ones being flexible are used to support the board against
flexing and maybe breaking when inserting/removing memory, power, IDE,
and I/O cards.
So 2 or 3 (sometimes more) metal ones and the rest plastic.
Warning! check properly the placing of mobo against mounting plate
before starting to insert various studs. The accidental shorting to
ground is not worth the time invested on double/triple checking.
And make sure that both kinds have the same length from mounting plate.

Have fun

Stanislaw
Slack user from Ulladulla.

Rich Grise wrote:



Thanks! ;-) After RTFM, I used the studs - in a different post, I said
that the first page of the MB instructions said, "Hold the board in
place and look through the holes. If you see threaded holes in the
chassis, use the studs. If you see slots, use the plastic standoffs."
So, I used the studs and it's now essentially a new computer. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich



It seems that everybody gets smart after making similar mistakes.

Have fun

Stanislaw
Slack user from Ulladulla.