"Doug Miller" wrote in message et
In article ews.net, "Folkert Rienstra" obscured wrote:

And another idiot with a broken newsclient showing Reply-To addresses.

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
In article , "Handi" wrote:
I'd dare to guess that if this fellow doesn't recognize a Torx screw
that he isn't aware that he should never open a hard drive.

I guess you can't recognize one either. :-)

The same to you.

Try again.

What he has is not a Torx screw.

Yes it is, as someone else showed from the Wiha page.

No, it's not. This is a five-pointed star. Torx screws have six points.

And the 5 pointed star is a Torx too.
There is no such thing as *the* "torx" screw.

"chrisv" wrote in message
Rita Ä Berkowitz wrote:

To avoid this problem in the future

Ignore the SCSI troll.

It was, until you gave it attention.

In article L44zf.13116$Zo.11468@trnddc07,
com says...

"John McGaw" wrote


If you want to buy Torx Plus tools you must, in theory anyway, be a
legitimate user as defined by Textron although if you know anyone who
works with them they should be pretty easily obtained at the cost of a
case of beer. ;-)


http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com...p.aspx?id=7957

Doesn't appear to include 5-pointed Torx, only 6-pointed.

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Books for Bicycle Mechanics and Tinkerers:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/bikebooks.html

According to Folkert Rienstra :
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
According to Folkert Rienstra :

Please, do not use Reply-To addresses in attribution lines. Get a decent newsclient, or change
your attribution line, like everyone else.

I assure you, trn 4 is a decent news reader, and substituting in the Reply-To for
From: is actually the right thing to do if the attribution line is to have anything
in it resembling the followup'd to user's address.

Spammers aren't stupid enough to ignore Reply-To headers - in fact, smart
ones would be scraping them in _preference_ to From: headers.

And those that scrape the whole message (which is why you're worried about
my attribution, right?) will scrape the reply-to _too_. So, you're shooting
yourself in the foot far more than the occasional followup from someone
using reasonable newsreader attribution defaults like me.

If you want to avoid Usenet scrapers, you need to not mention your real
email address AT ALL, or munge it.

Eg: "folkertdashrienstra (at) wanadoo.nl", or ".

Reply-To is not a useful approach for evading Usenet email address scrapers.
If you don't want to get it scraped, _don't_ imagine that Reply-To will hide it.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Rob B :
"chrisv" wrote in message

You haven't tried big/strong ones, then. I have some that are 1"
diameter and 1/4" thick, and I guarantee you that they'll give you a
pinch you will not soon forget! They are also extremely difficult to
seperate, once locked-together.

well the ones i tried were small button type maybe 1/3" diameter and 1/8"
thick they certainly were strong they hold more to the fridge than those
crap magnets and prettier too

The Lee Valley catalog has a variety of rare earth magnets from 1/4" to
1" in diameter. The 3/8 & 1/2" ones are great for fridge magnets.

The 1" ones are used for cargo strap tie-downs, which should give you
an idea of how strong they are. Need special techniques for prying
two of them apart. If they're allowed to come together unrestrained,
they _will_ chip and throw chunks. I wouldn't want to get a small
fold of skin between two of those!

[I have 5 of them, I just haven't gotten around to making the separation
jig yet.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage mc wrote:

"Arno Wagner" wrote in message
...

Torx is optimised for maximum torque without damaging the
tool or screw and easier insertion than the standard 6-way
symmetric format. IMO ist qualifies as possibly the best
all around screw head format.

Yes... you can actually hold the screw with the screwdriver... that is, put
the screw on the end of the screwdriver, then move it into position.

Exactly.

Arno

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Chris Lewis wrote:
According to mm :
On 16 Jan 2006 18:15:57 GMT, Arno Wagner wrote:

Definitely correct. For anti-tamper there is Torx with a pin
in the middle that needs a Torx driver with a hole. Standard
Torx is just very well suited for automated mounting and also

I hadn't thought about that, but I had noticed that it stays on the
tip without magnetism, even when the tip is horizontal.

Square drive (eg: Canadian "Robertson") are almost as good. I drove several
hundred 3" deck screws through flooring yesterday - once put on the driver,
they stayed put on the driver and could be started and driven without touching
the screw.

No cam-out either.

I still think they should make the manufacture and sale of slotted and
phillips screws a capital offence.

Careful! Outlawing stupidity, while highly desirable, would lead to
chaos.

Arno

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Isaac Wingfield wrote:
In article ,
Arno Wagner wrote:

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage wrench wrote:
Torx screws are seldom used for no other purpose then to keep the
prying eyes of consumers from sensitive stuff. Thats why they're
used in elevators.

Not an accurate statement. Torx drive screws have been used on
vehicles for ten years plus. They are not (in their standard form)
an anti tamper fastener.

Definitely correct. For anti-tamper there is Torx with a pin
in the middle that needs a Torx driver with a hole.

Or a little work with a strong, small flat blade, to bend it back and
forth until it breaks off.

Should work as well, agreed. Unless you want to make warranty
claims afterwasrds ;-)

Arno

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
According to Folkert Rienstra :
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
According to Folkert Rienstra :

Please, do not use Reply-To addresses in attribution lines.
Get a decent newsclient, or change your attribution line, like everyone else does.


I assure you, trn 4 is a decent news reader,

Obviously not if it is straying from standard practice.

and substituting in the Reply-To for From: is actually the right thing to do

No, it is not.

if the attribution line is to have anything in it resembling the to user's address.

Nonsense. Obviously Reply-To is for replying-to/following-up.
Contributor attribution has nothing got to do with follow-up.

Any decent news/email client automatically uses the Reply-To from the header
if you choose email reply (reply to sender) and reverts to From: if it is empty.
No point whatsoever to use it in attribution lines.
Any news/email client that relies on attribution lines for replies is obviously broken.


Spammers aren't stupid enough to ignore Reply-To headers - in fact, smart
ones would be scraping them in _preference_ to From: headers.

Practice says different.


And those that scrape the whole message (which is why you're worried about
my attribution,

right?)

Wrong. I don't want my Reply address used in bodies.

will scrape the reply-to _too_.

So, you're shooting yourself in the foot

Nope, it is you who is shooting me in the foot.

far more than the occasional followup from someone
using reasonable newsreader attribution defaults like me.

If it was reasonable every other newsreader would use it. Guess what.


If you want to avoid Usenet scrapers, you need to not mention your real
email address AT ALL, or munge it.

Or use that what was intended to use and isn't normally used in usenet bodies
(not the header).


Eg: "xxxxxxxx (at) yyyyyyy.zz", or .

I told you not to use my Reply addres in usenet messages and here you
go again. It's bloody obvious how to undo the spamtraps from that.


Reply-To is not a useful approach for evading Usenet email address scrapers.
If you don't want to get it scraped, _don't_ imagine that Reply-To will hide it.

I don't imagine, you are. I just see what happens in practice.

In article , (Joshua Putnam) writes:
| In article L44zf.13116$Zo.11468@trnddc07,
| com says...
|
| "John McGaw" wrote
|
|
| If you want to buy Torx Plus tools you must, in theory anyway, be a
| legitimate user as defined by Textron although if you know anyone who
| works with them they should be pretty easily obtained at the cost of a
| case of beer. ;-)
|
|
| http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com...p.aspx?id=7957
|
| Doesn't appear to include 5-pointed Torx, only 6-pointed.

How about this:

http://sjdiscounttools.com/sk84231.html

(The SK84231 set is available from many sites, but this one had a short URL.)

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

In article ews.net, "Folkert Rienstra" wrote:

And the 5 pointed star is a Torx too.

Not correct.

There is no such thing as *the* "torx" screw.

Also not correct. But you seem impervious to logic, so I'm done.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I'd have to side with Odie here. About 15 'years' ago I pulled apart an (now)
old 85meg RLL hard drive because the auto park wouldn't release. This was on
the kitchen table & that drive is still working today .... you'd think it would
have just plain worn out by now.

I noticed it had filters inside it to clean the air moving inside it so I expect
it was all clean again within seconds if not minutes of firing up again.

The 'new' drives I've pulled apart for the magnets seem to have the air filters
as well although I'd expect today's technology to be less tolerant to dirty air
what with the amount of data that they pack into the smaller space but I still
wouldn't expect it to die in "a few days or weeks".


On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 13:48:28 -0000, "David C. Partridge"
wrote:

Cough! I said class 1 not class 100!

Sure a drive will function for a while with the case off, but it will die
soonish (maybe a few days or weeks, but it will die).

If OTOH all you are doing is extracting the magnets from old drives - then
go right on ..

Dave
"Odie Ferrous" wrote in message
...
"David C. Partridge" wrote:

Hmmmm why do you want to open the case of the drive? If you open it
outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die.

Or are you talking about the drive mounting screws?

Perhaps the drive already *is* dead.

Don't overestimate clean rooms - they contain 100 particles per cubic
meter as opposed to an "average" room containing 600 particles. A
"clean" "average" room will contain far less than the 600 particles.

For what it's worth, I've had a drive running non-stop for over a week
without its cover (platters exposed) and haven't had any hiccups. This
hype about "clean rooms" is a load of drivel.

There are those who will say "if you get one single particle of dust on
your platters, your drive will be irretrievably damaged."

Bollox. And bollox to FR, who will no doubt disagree.


Odie
--
Retrodata
www.retrodata.co.uk
Globally Local Data Recovery Experts

--

Australia isn't "down under", it's "off to one side"!


www.cobracat.com (home of the Australian Cobra Catamaran)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cobra-cat/

chrisv wrote:
Rob B wrote:


Hard drives have very powerful neodymium magnets in the servo actuator
for the read/write head assembly. You have to be careful not to pinch
your fingers between them but they're cool to play with.

has anyone ever pinched the fingers ? i bought some of these neodynium
"warning extra strong" magnets from hardware store and skeptical i tried to
pinch my fingers and have had no luck, well if that is the label to give
such actions



Yes I've gotten nasty blood blisters on several occasions. Take apart
any 3.5" hard drive and pull the magnets out, they'll stick to each
other very strongly. If you can find an old 5.25" SCSI drive you'll
likely find even bigger magnets.

According to Folkert Rienstra oh all right, this time :
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
According to Folkert Rienstra :
"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
According to Folkert Rienstra :

Please, do not use Reply-To addresses in attribution lines.
Get a decent newsclient, or change your attribution line, like everyone else does.

I assure you, trn 4 is a decent news reader,

Obviously not if it is straying from standard practice.

What standard? trn set _the_ standard for more years than your newsreader
has existed or you have been posting to Usenet.

There is no standard on attribution lines. Indeed, the only comments
on this topic I've been able to google say _exactly_ what trn is doing -
reply-to if present, From otherwise.

and substituting in the Reply-To for From: is actually the right thing to do

No, it is not.

Funny, in the 20+ years I've been posting on Usenet (largely to groups specific
to Usenet, Email and anti-spam standards, operations and practise), and the 10s
of thousands of postings I've made to Usenet, you're the first to suggest it's wrong.

Spammers aren't stupid enough to ignore Reply-To headers - in fact, smart
ones would be scraping them in _preference_ to From: headers.

Practice says different.

I don't think someone who uses Outlook as a newsreader should be lecturing
anyone on newsreader "practise", let alone lecturing _me_ on spammer practises...

Perhaps Outlook's braindamage leads you to believe that spammers can't see
reply-tos.

I assure you, spammers don't do this by hand. They use specialized
NNTP clients, and scan _everything_ in the message - headers, bodies,
everything. Valid Reply-tos are vastly more blaringly obvious than
arbitrary hand munging.

Any spammer with enough neurons to be able to
write a generalized demunger is sure going to notice
reply-to.

If you don't want your email address scraped, don't include
it in the posting.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Odie Ferrous wrote:
"David C. Partridge" wrote:

Hmmmm why do you want to open the case of the drive? If you open it
outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die.

Or are you talking about the drive mounting screws?

Perhaps the drive already *is* dead.

Don't overestimate clean rooms - they contain 100 particles per cubic
meter as opposed to an "average" room containing 600 particles. A
"clean" "average" room will contain far less than the 600 particles.

For what it's worth, I've had a drive running non-stop for over a week
without its cover (platters exposed) and haven't had any hiccups. This
hype about "clean rooms" is a load of drivel.

Interessting.

Arno

"James Sweet" wrote in message news:hLlzf.16289$sq.7248@trnddc01
Folkert Rienstra wrote:
"James Sweet" wrote in message news:rzYyf.15937$h47.10775@trnddc08
mm wrote:
On 16 Jan 2006 08:17:07 -0800, " wrote:
....
I've opened hard drives again and again in very filthy rooms and
they've never shown any ill effects over the days, or in some cases
weeks, that I operated them. I do this all the time with old drives
because I can see what's happening inside the drive while I test my
control circuitry.

If I was manufacturing hundreds of thousands of drives and had to worry
about warranties and customer satisfaction, I'd be doing it in a clean
room. And I would buy a new drive before attempting to repair a damaged
one. But you definitely can operate a hard drive without the cover for
a while; probably long enough to do whatever you want if you don't dawdle.

My drive is clicking, and one important partition has a very bad
directory structure. I'm not sure I can copy over even the good
partitions before it "fails". If I open it, what would I want to do
to stop the clicking, or to keep the clicking syndrome from preventing
me from copying the data to a good drive.


There's nothing you can do by opening it.
If it's clicking that means it's unable to read the disc

due to a hardware failure.

Nonsense.
If it's clicking it means it does a rezero every time it retries a read operation.
It does that on ECC errors and also on CRC errors on the interface.
Neither is necessarily caused by a hardware failure.
Bad power supply, overheated drive or bad data cable can cause this too.


Every single time I've ever had a hard drive clicking it was caused by a
failure of the drive,

So either you have a pathetically inadequate
small sample or you are killing all your drives.

I've never even heard of it

So you obviously should refrain from commen-
ting as if you are the resident expert on this.

caused by those other issues, with the exception being
a couple of early very hot running 10K rpm drives.

As if that can't happen to IDE drives.

Bad drive is 99% the reason.

In your case.
You are known as a 'pathetically inadequate sample'.

Arno Wagner wrote:
In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage Odie Ferrous wrote:

"David C. Partridge" wrote:

Hmmmm why do you want to open the case of the drive? If you open it
outside a class 1 clean room, the drive WILL die.

Or are you talking about the drive mounting screws?


Perhaps the drive already *is* dead.


Don't overestimate clean rooms - they contain 100 particles per cubic
meter as opposed to an "average" room containing 600 particles. A
"clean" "average" room will contain far less than the 600 particles.


For what it's worth, I've had a drive running non-stop for over a week
without its cover (platters exposed) and haven't had any hiccups. This
hype about "clean rooms" is a load of drivel.


Interessting.



Interesting but the drive is running on borrowed time. Perhaps you
should store all your critical data on it and see how long it continues
to operate like that.

"Stephen Lee -- post replies please" wrote in message
According to mm :
(Chris Lewis) wrote:

The clicking is most likely retries (ie: gouged media, weak magnetics).
You _can't_ fix that. You're unlikely to be able to repair even obvious

It only clicks if I try to access the bad partition, and even then not always .
I can read the good partitions, but I'm told the clicking will get worse.

The exact same thing happened to me. I was copying stuff off one of my old
Seagate HDD, and there is one file that XP can't read, saying ECC error. I
ran Seatools http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/ on the drive and it
identified 2 bad sectors with full diagnostic. I was able to get the file
off the drive by having Seatools force a remapping of the bad sectors.

The remapped sectors are zeroed, so you're getting the file damaged, but it
is better than not getting anything at all. The good thing is Seatools
tries to identify and tell you which file is affected (although in short 8.3
name only), so you can decide if you want to risk it or not.

As for whether it will get worse, it depends on what caused the error. If
it was just a transient glitch that caused the drive to make a bad write, it
could be that it will develop no more error afterwards. If, say, the drive
electronics is failing, you'll see more and more bad sectors (thus more
clicking when you access previously-okay files).

HDDs are cheap enough nowadays that I wouldn't risk my data on such a
drive, but YMMV.

Strange how you have no such concerns with risking your data on a new drive
without checking your powersupply/supply of power first.


Stephen

According to mm :
(Chris Lewis) wrote:

The clicking is most likely retries (ie: gouged media, weak magnetics).
You _can't_ fix that. You're unlikely to be able to repair even obvious

It only clicks if I try to access the bad partition, and even then not
always . I can read the good partitions, but I'm told the clicking
will get worse.

The exact same thing happened to me. I was copying stuff off one of my old
Seagate HDD, and there is one file that XP can't read, saying ECC error. I
ran Seatools http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/ on the drive and it
identified 2 bad sectors with full diagnostic. I was able to get the file
off the drive by having Seatools force a remapping of the bad sectors.

The remapped sectors are zeroed, so you're getting the file damaged, but it
is better than not getting anything at all. The good thing is Seatools
tries to identify and tell you which file is affected (although in short 8.3
name only), so you can decide if you want to risk it or not.

As for whether it will get worse, it depends on what caused the error. If
it was just a transient glitch that caused the drive to make a bad write, it
could be that it will develop no more error afterwards. If, say, the drive
electronics is failing, you'll see more and more bad sectors (thus more
clicking when you access previously-okay files). HDDs are cheap enough
nowadays that I wouldn't risk my data on such a drive, but YMMV.

Stephen