We have a 1993 Caprice Classic which was formally a New Hampshire state

police car. We bought it at state auction in 1998 and my wife drove it
with no problems up until about 2 years ago. All of a sudden her
headaches seemed to come on gradually and they seemed to occur every
time she drove the car. We suspected that it could be Co., and inasmuch

as the muffler was leaking a slight amount anyway we went ahead and
replaced the entire exhaust system. I personally checked it carefully
for leaks afterwards and ascertained that there were none. She drove
the car afterwards and almost instantly got a headache. A mechanic
friend suggested that perhaps it could be dampness causing mold. He
gave me a 120V ionizer which I was to place in the car, and plug in
overnight with the windows closed. He cautioned me though not to use it

if the carpets were wet. I first checked the carpets and did indeed
find them wet especially on the front drivers side. We pulled the
carpet and to my disappointment we found that a major portion of the
floor under the pedal area, going into the corner post and running up
the firewall was rusted through badly. New Hampshire uses an
unbelievable amount of road salt in the Winter and cars are destroyed
by this. We did not use the ionizer. It was a great deal of work but
the carpet and padding were both removed and the area was treated with
Por15, sheet metal was replaced, the floor was sealed, new carpet was
installed and the underside was treated as well. I then borrowed the
ionizer again and used it for a full 24 hours. Upon opening the door
afterwards the car really smelled "fresh" and I was hopeful that we had

resolved the problem. But still the headaches came. We did have a
slight residual smell from the Por15 and there was of course that
unmistakeable new carpet smell that only fades with time, so I thought
maybe I had created a new problem. So for the whole winter the car just

sat. This spring I got it out, and upon opening it up noted that there
was no residual smell left. The carpets were dry and I had my wife
drive it two miles and back and she again got a headache. They seem to
start at the top of her head and just go on from there. I mentioned
this to my mechanic friend again and he suggested that it could still
be mold perhaps in the heaing and cooling ducts. I know that moisture
does collect in there and rots the blower resistors out. (we replaced
the resistor in ours already). So he suggested that I take full
strenght bleach in a spray bottle and while the engine is running with
the blower on spray the bleach into the cowl vents. I sprayed about a
quart while working the controls between heat and AC. I also sprayed
the bleach into the vents from the inside of the car as well and also
onto the padding that is still up on the firewall. This is a foam
material and was not replaced but it is very dry. I kept the windows
closed while doing this and the inside of the car smelled really
strong, like swimming pool shock after a few minutes and even the next
day it still did. I would have hoped that would have killed any mold
that might have still been in there. I have driven the car since and
have run it in vent position as well as heat and AC and all the
chlorine smell is now gone. This afternoon my wife and I went out to
the car and just sat in it for 10 minutes with the doors open. The
engine was off. We were listening to the radio and she was reading the
paper. I was hopeful until after about 15 minutes she mentioned that
another headache was coming on again. With the front doors open and the

engine off! I have had many people ride in this car and she is the only

one who can not be near it. This car looks and runs great. I really
want to keep it. Of course I'd like my wife to be around too. The car
has given us great service but I am at my wits end with this problem.
Does ANYONE have any ideas? I appoligize for the long winded story but
I wanted to try to provide all the facts. Thanks for any suggestions.
Lenny Stein.

Lenny,
Perhaps your wife should see an allergist. Or just have your doctor test for allergies. I'm not really sure what they do. But this is my best guess at the moment.
Does your wife always drive with the radio on? If there's something screwy with the audio (especially after being in service for who knows how long) it could be producing high frequency audio that some people are sensitive to.
Does she wear glasses? If she wears glasses except when she drives, or only when she drives or reads, this could be a problem as well. Hope some of this helps.

Kevin

" bravely wrote to "All" (20 Apr 05 21:53:15)
--- on the heady topic of "My wife's headaches, ( a real sad story, and a great
frustrating myster"

Did your wife drive another car and have a headache? It may be she has
a problem with her neck and turning the head or moving the eyes around
a lot causes her headache. It may be that it takes some time to get
used to driving again after a long absence from the road.

Perhaps she needs some kind of eye glasses to drive? Driving requires
the eyes to focus further away and may cause eye strain which results
in the perceived headaches. Since the problem occured with the doors
open then it may now be partly in the mind as a memory from the first
experience. The brain is really great at trying to avoid dangers which
it previously encountered.

As for the carbon monoxide problem try to borrow a detector and check
the interior. Look for any openings in the firewall left after the
police equipment was removed as any engine fumes might creep in
through there. For instance oil that leaks onto a hot manifold but
doesn't leak at idle or in park, or leaks from the blow-by valve.

BTW contrary to popular belief bleach doesn't kill mold very well.
Ammonia does a better job. Some folk spray Lysol into the A/C vents
and swear by it but I'm not convinced. Perhaps a combination of each.

A*s*i*m*o*v


ca From: "
ca Xref: aeinews sci.electronics.repair:46153

ca We have a 1993 Caprice Classic which was formally a New Hampshire
ca state
ca police car. We bought it at state auction in 1998 and my wife drove it
ca with no problems up until about 2 years ago. All of a sudden her
ca headaches seemed to come on gradually and they seemed to occur every
ca time she drove the car.
[,,,]

.... No electrons were harmed in the posting of this message.

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:14:47 +0100, Kevinm
wrote:


Lenny,
Perhaps your wife should see an allergist. Or just have your
doctor test for allergies. I'm not really sure what they do. But this
is my best guess at the moment.
Does your wife always drive with the radio on? If there's
something screwy with the audio (especially after being in service for
who knows how long) it could be producing high frequency audio that
some people are sensitive to.
Does she wear glasses? If she wears glasses except when she
drives, or only when she drives or reads, this could be a problem as
well. Hope some of this helps.

Does it only occur in this particular car? What if she drives another?
Does it occur if she sits in an identical vehicle?

I'm thinking possibly it's something to do with the driving position,
maybe a nerve is getting pinched in her neck or something?

Perhaps it's some form of subconcious anxiety leading to tension
headaches? Has she (Or someone she knows) been in a road crash?

Could a fuel leak be causing fumes in the car? Maybe the car has a
pressurised fire extinguisher system that is leaking?

sponix

Lenny:
I think your wife is "trying to tell you" that she wants a NEW car.
--
Best Regards,
Daniel Sofie
Electronics Supply & Repair
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


wrote in message
ups.com...
We have a 1993 Caprice Classic which was formally a New Hampshire state

police car. We bought it at state auction in 1998 and my wife drove it
ANYONE have any ideas? I appoligize for the long winded story but
I wanted to try to provide all the facts. Thanks for any suggestions.
Lenny Stein.

LOL!!!!

Does the car give anyone else headaches? If not, perhaps you should sell it
to someone not bothered by whatever's causing them and get a different car
that won't give your wife headaches.

Does it only happen with the engine running? Unlikely I know, but if
so, it might be something to do with subsonic vibrations, maybe an
exhause tuning thing, or a panel vibrating. It happens in rally cars
sometimes.

Ron(UK)

On 20 Apr 2005 21:53:15 -0700,
"
wrote:

This car looks and runs great. I really
want to keep it. Of course I'd like my wife to be around too.

Time to make a decision. Sell the car or the wife. I suspect
the car's trade-in value may be higher - but you haven't
given much detail on the wife for a fair valuation.

But it definitely sounds like the two are mutually
incompatible.

A difficult decision, I know. But life's not fair.


Cheers, Alan, Australia

"James Sweet" writes:

Does the car give anyone else headaches? If not, perhaps you should sell it
to someone not bothered by whatever's causing them and get a different car
that won't give your wife headaches.

I didn't catch the beginning of this thread but headaches could be a
symptom of carbon monoxide leaking into the passenger compartment. This
should be checked out immediately.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
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| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name is included in the subject line. Or, you can
contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.

Lenny,
I have worked with people who have environmental illness and migraines.
They can develop an acute sensitivity to smells, sounds and all kinds
of stimulus even electromagnetic radiation. Things that someone else
could never detect or even notice. That said it does not diminish their
suffering or the reality of the causation.
Does your wife have headaches in any other situation, mental stimulus
or location?
Richard

Sometimes when I use the anhydrous isopropyl in the shop she complains,
or smells like paint thinner will bring one on too but they would
affect most people I'm sure. She is pre menopausal and perhaps that may
have something to do with this. I don't know. Whats so frustrating is
that as a technician I repair things for a living and this is something
that I just can't seem to fix. Lenny

wrote in message
oups.com...
Sometimes when I use the anhydrous isopropyl in the shop she complains,
or smells like paint thinner will bring one on too but they would
affect most people I'm sure. She is pre menopausal and perhaps that may
have something to do with this. I don't know. Whats so frustrating is
that as a technician I repair things for a living and this is something
that I just can't seem to fix. Lenny


Pretty hard to fix something when the symptoms are not apparent to you
though.

I would be VERY careful about using a combination of bleach and
ammonia. The combination of fumes are toxic!

One other possibility may be how the vehicle positions her neck. Some
people are more sensitive to how their neck is positioned. Play with
the headrest or maybe try a neck support. My 2 cents.

On 20 Apr 2005 21:53:15 -0700, wrote:

We have a 1993 Caprice Classic which was formally a New Hampshire state

police car. We bought it at state auction in 1998 and my wife drove it
with no problems up until about 2 years ago. All of a sudden her
headaches seemed to come on gradually and they seemed to occur every
time she drove the car. We suspected that it could be Co., and inasmuch

as the muffler was leaking a slight amount anyway we went ahead and
replaced the entire exhaust system. I personally checked it carefully
for leaks afterwards and ascertained that there were none. She drove
the car afterwards and almost instantly got a headache. A mechanic
friend suggested that perhaps it could be dampness causing mold. He
gave me a 120V ionizer which I was to place in the car, and plug in
overnight with the windows closed. He cautioned me though not to use it

if the carpets were wet. I first checked the carpets and did indeed
find them wet especially on the front drivers side. We pulled the
carpet and to my disappointment we found that a major portion of the
floor under the pedal area, going into the corner post and running up
the firewall was rusted through badly. New Hampshire uses an
unbelievable amount of road salt in the Winter and cars are destroyed
by this. We did not use the ionizer. It was a great deal of work but
the carpet and padding were both removed and the area was treated with
Por15, sheet metal was replaced, the floor was sealed, new carpet was
installed and the underside was treated as well. I then borrowed the
ionizer again and used it for a full 24 hours. Upon opening the door
afterwards the car really smelled "fresh" and I was hopeful that we had

resolved the problem. But still the headaches came. We did have a
slight residual smell from the Por15 and there was of course that
unmistakeable new carpet smell that only fades with time, so I thought
maybe I had created a new problem. So for the whole winter the car just

sat. This spring I got it out, and upon opening it up noted that there
was no residual smell left. The carpets were dry and I had my wife
drive it two miles and back and she again got a headache. They seem to
start at the top of her head and just go on from there. I mentioned
this to my mechanic friend again and he suggested that it could still
be mold perhaps in the heaing and cooling ducts. I know that moisture
does collect in there and rots the blower resistors out. (we replaced
the resistor in ours already). So he suggested that I take full
strenght bleach in a spray bottle and while the engine is running with
the blower on spray the bleach into the cowl vents. I sprayed about a
quart while working the controls between heat and AC. I also sprayed
the bleach into the vents from the inside of the car as well and also
onto the padding that is still up on the firewall. This is a foam
material and was not replaced but it is very dry. I kept the windows
closed while doing this and the inside of the car smelled really
strong, like swimming pool shock after a few minutes and even the next
day it still did. I would have hoped that would have killed any mold
that might have still been in there. I have driven the car since and
have run it in vent position as well as heat and AC and all the
chlorine smell is now gone. This afternoon my wife and I went out to
the car and just sat in it for 10 minutes with the doors open. The
engine was off. We were listening to the radio and she was reading the
paper. I was hopeful until after about 15 minutes she mentioned that
another headache was coming on again. With the front doors open and the

engine off! I have had many people ride in this car and she is the only

one who can not be near it. This car looks and runs great. I really
want to keep it. Of course I'd like my wife to be around too. The car
has given us great service but I am at my wits end with this problem.
Does ANYONE have any ideas? I appoligize for the long winded story but
I wanted to try to provide all the facts. Thanks for any suggestions.
Lenny Stein.

Check the trunk/rear seat/floorboard area for exhaust gas entry path.
--
E

Check for a leak in the heater core. Possibly seepage of coolant into
the passenger compartment. By the way, a 12 year old car is probably a
pretty polluted environment for anyone who is sensitive to chemicals.
Likewise a new car may outgas a lot of plastic fumes for a couple years.

wrote:

Sometimes when I use the anhydrous isopropyl in the shop she complains,
or smells like paint thinner will bring one on too but they would
affect most people I'm sure. She is pre menopausal and perhaps that may
have something to do with this. I don't know. Whats so frustrating is
that as a technician I repair things for a living and this is something
that I just can't seem to fix. Lenny




--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"

The Lost Deep Thoughts By: Jack Handey
Before a mad scientist goes mad, there's probably a time
when he's only partially mad. And this is the time when he's
going to throw his best parties.

Well I've had good results using Shiatsu treatments and a form of
meditation for clients with headaches including migranes. There are
many books on the subject.
On the technical side you might be interested in:
http://www.therionresearch.com/database_migraine.html
http://www.healingwell.com/library/m...es/lappin1.asp
Heard about this pulsed magnetic therapy a while back but haven't seen
anyone market a commercial product.
"Honey would you mind putting this thing on your head while I hook it
up to my freq oscillator?"
Richard

I don't know your wife, and I don't mean this to be a put-down. But the
power of suggestion is very strong for some people. In other words, at
this point, she may get a headache when she gets into this car simply
because she EXPECTS to get a headache when she gets into this car. This
cause is especially indicated if the headache comes on nearly instantly,
as you have described - so soon that none of the causes being discussed
here (exhaust fumes, neck position, lighting, EMI, etc) have had a
chance to kick in yet.

I knew a girl like this once, but her particular hot button was food
that had sat out on the counter for more than two hours. She was
convinced that any kind of food would spoil in that time, and that she
would get sick if she ate it. And since she expected to get sick, she
did. And she was truly miserable - she wasn't making it up. She would
retch and gag and vomit almost instantly if she thought there was even a
possibility that the food was "old", even if a dozen other people were
happily munching on the same thing.

The headaches may originally have had a legitimate cause, and it could
have been any of the things being discussed. But if the power of
suggestion is revved up real good, nothing you do is going to make this
car tolerable to her. At some point, you may have to just cut your losses.

Bill
------------------------

spudnuty wrote:

Well I've had good results using Shiatsu treatments and a form of
meditation for clients with headaches including migranes. There are
many books on the subject.
On the technical side you might be interested in:
http://www.therionresearch.com/database_migraine.html
http://www.healingwell.com/library/m...es/lappin1.asp
Heard about this pulsed magnetic therapy a while back but haven't seen
anyone market a commercial product.
"Honey would you mind putting this thing on your head while I hook it
up to my freq oscillator?"
Richard

Didn't see any mention of this so I thought I'd throw it out for your consideration:

You may want to try having your wife wear a good dust mask over her mouth and nose to filter the air she is breathing. If the headaches disappear or diminish significantly, then at least you will have good idea that the problem is air-borne (like mold) and you will have a better idea of what may be going on. Also, as weird as it may look, at least if you and your wife need to go somewhere in that car, you will have a way to do it (if it works).

In the absence of air-borne problems, your wife may be very sensitive to and be reacting to a very high frequency or very low frequency sound coming from somewhere that is causing her headaches (my wife is an audiologist and suggested that idea). Women, especially, are sensitive to and can hear very high frequencies that men cannot hear, especially as men age. Sounds like that may be originating from some metal part wearing out (break shoes, bearings, etc.) or even a window that isn't closing all the way, causing some road noise.

Best of luck.

Gary

"Bill Jeffrey" wrote in message
news:cOtbe.90276$A31.64514@fed1read03...
I don't know your wife, and I don't mean this to be a put-down. But the
power of suggestion is very strong for some people. In other words, at
this point, she may get a headache when she gets into this car simply
because she EXPECTS to get a headache when she gets into this car. This
cause is especially indicated if the headache comes on nearly instantly,
as you have described - so soon that none of the causes being discussed
here (exhaust fumes, neck position, lighting, EMI, etc) have had a
chance to kick in yet.

I knew a girl like this once, but her particular hot button was food
that had sat out on the counter for more than two hours. She was
convinced that any kind of food would spoil in that time, and that she
would get sick if she ate it. And since she expected to get sick, she
did. And she was truly miserable - she wasn't making it up. She would
retch and gag and vomit almost instantly if she thought there was even a
possibility that the food was "old", even if a dozen other people were
happily munching on the same thing.


Hehe that reminds me of a friend I had who would ask how old everything in
the fridge was and wouldn't eat it if it was at or past the Sell By date. I
finally started rubbing off the date (only sell by, not use by!) and lying
about how old it was so he wouldn't complain.

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:15:12 -0700, Bill Jeffrey
wrote:

Sounds like the most likely source of the problem. Alternative to
buying new car would be to provide a placebo with some story like ...
this has been found by the manufacturer that one in 18000 people are
affected in this manner, and it is the result of a mineral deficiency,
for which this pill will give lasting cure within 4 days after taking
it.

Something like that should at least help find or eliminate this line
of enquiry.

Peter Dettmann


I don't know your wife, and I don't mean this to be a put-down. But the
power of suggestion is very strong for some people. In other words, at
this point, she may get a headache when she gets into this car simply
because she EXPECTS to get a headache when she gets into this car. This
cause is especially indicated if the headache comes on nearly instantly,
as you have described - so soon that none of the causes being discussed
here (exhaust fumes, neck position, lighting, EMI, etc) have had a
chance to kick in yet.

I knew a girl like this once, but her particular hot button was food
that had sat out on the counter for more than two hours. She was
convinced that any kind of food would spoil in that time, and that she
would get sick if she ate it. And since she expected to get sick, she
did. And she was truly miserable - she wasn't making it up. She would
retch and gag and vomit almost instantly if she thought there was even a
possibility that the food was "old", even if a dozen other people were
happily munching on the same thing.

The headaches may originally have had a legitimate cause, and it could
have been any of the things being discussed. But if the power of
suggestion is revved up real good, nothing you do is going to make this
car tolerable to her. At some point, you may have to just cut your losses.

Bill
------------------------

spudnuty wrote:

Well I've had good results using Shiatsu treatments and a form of
meditation for clients with headaches including migranes. There are
many books on the subject.
On the technical side you might be interested in:
http://www.therionresearch.com/database_migraine.html
http://www.healingwell.com/library/m...es/lappin1.asp
Heard about this pulsed magnetic therapy a while back but haven't seen
anyone market a commercial product.
"Honey would you mind putting this thing on your head while I hook it
up to my freq oscillator?"
Richard

This is so true of people who are compulsive and often goes hand in
hand with these kinds of disorders. (see my post above) I had a client
who couldn't have food in her house that was over a few hours old.
Since I worked on her at her house I would go home with all this food.
This also included stuff in her pantry that had been there for longer
than a few days. Her refrigerator was the cleanist I'd ever seen and
often contained only a box of baking soda. Our food bills were down at
least 10% during the time I worked on her.
She was a clinical psychologist!
Richard

I really like the idea of trying the dust mask, but only as a purely
diagnostic tool that is. I would shudder to think of the response I
would get, (or where that mask might end up for that matter) by my
suggesting we took a trip with her wearing one.
But serously though, would a simple "nuisance" type dust mask like you
would get at Home Desperate for like 3 for 2.00, be adaquate, or might
I want to try the more expensive packaged type, like you might use for
fiberglass, or peraps even a canister respirator type? If this is an
airborne mold or similar thing are we dealing with large, or relativaly
small particle matter? Lenny.