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#41
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 16:49:10 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 15:31:57 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: [snip] ****es lots of people off, when I instantly say, "Can't be" :-) ...Jim Thompson Gosh, you are wonderful. Tell us more about how smart you are, how you know everything, and how much you enjoy ****ing off people who aren't as smart as you are. Are who aren't the superb marksman (at 30 feet) that you are. You really ought to sweat that, John "Dog Turd" Larkin ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#42
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 17:16:02 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 16:45:20 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 21:54:21 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: "Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:32:20 -0500, "Dave" wrote: "Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 22:12:30 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso" wrote: Jim Thompson wrote: On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 18:28:22 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso" wrote: Jim Thompson wrote: On Wed, 23 May 2012 15:40:17 -0500, "Dave" wrote: Posted a while back about a project I am trying to concoct- an intercom for my front door- and have made some progress. Unfortunately I hit a speed bump when I added transistor Q4. Now it only gives me noise at the output, and lots and lots of that. Capacitors are all 100uF 35V, which I am thinking may be the problem (maybe the last couple need to be 50 or 75V?) Originally thought I might be overdriving Q4, so I replaced it with a 2N5296 from my junkbox, but that just doubled the volume of the noisy output. If anyone sees something I should but don't, please post. The only thing I can think of is upping the voltage on C8 and C9. Any help is *greatly* appreciated... Dave Back up and do a little math. Calculate the bias current in that last stage. (In fact, calculate all your stage biases.) In my head, it's 14ma. That can't be right. The calc concurs. Is that a little bit too much? Aren't the emitter caps about 10 times as big as needed? Ian did notice that he was just throwing gain at the problem though. Yep, I was stunned... Ian said something cogent. But his buddy, Dave, is beyond all hope... rude little POS. I don't have AoE in reach, but I don't think they mention bias current in their approach to design. They approach it with the rule of thumb that the input impedance should be 10x the output impedance of the previous stage. Similar. (The input impedance of the OP's stages are only slightly higher than the previous output impedance.) I'd like to know if you use any rules of thumb for this sort of thing. Or is everything just optimized by multi-variable calculus? I don't know if there are "rules of thumb"... maybe just calculate rather than doing a NOLA white-trash guess ?:-) ...Jim Thompson Does it really make you feel good to talk that way about other people, calling someone you don't know a POS, and white-trash? Personally, I think it says a lot more about you than it does about me. And no, I don't know anything about the calculations involved in anything as simple as an audio amp. Like I said, I'm making this up as I go along. I don't know anything. I'm just trying to learn. Dave I tried to help, suggesting you calculate the bias currents. Rather than asking what I meant, if you're "just trying to learn", you smart-mouthed. And I don't respond well to smart-mouthed brats... it's enough of a problem to deal with Larkin ;-) You declared war on JL by being a spitefull old fart. Take care now - you're way past fighting on 2 fronts. Look at his posts. Nothing but boasting about how smart he is, how many things he's done, how many great ideas he has. But no content, no help, nothing but the occasional Spice graphs from who-knows-what secret circuits. He apparently expects all deference due to a self-declared "Master Circuit Designer" and gets all hen-squawkey when he doesn't get it. He doesn't seem to be interested in electronics at all. He doesn't "try to help", he just tries to inflate his ego. It's not working. Sad excuse for "war." So sayeth John "Dog Turd" Larkin ;-) ...Jim Thompson You must be one of those usenet pain sluts, the sort of person who craves public humiliation. On the other hand, you may just be a silly old fool. Most likely, old fool. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com http://www.highlandtechnology.com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom laser drivers and controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation |
#43
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 17:18:38 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 16:49:10 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 15:31:57 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: [snip] ****es lots of people off, when I instantly say, "Can't be" :-) ...Jim Thompson Gosh, you are wonderful. Tell us more about how smart you are, how you know everything, and how much you enjoy ****ing off people who aren't as smart as you are. Are who aren't the superb marksman (at 30 feet) that you are. You really ought to sweat that, John "Dog Turd" Larkin ;-) ...Jim Thompson Sweat what? Say it. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators |
#44
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 18:07:20 -0700, John Larkin
wrote: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 17:16:02 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 16:45:20 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 21:54:21 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: "Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:32:20 -0500, "Dave" wrote: "Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 22:12:30 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso" wrote: Jim Thompson wrote: On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 18:28:22 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso" wrote: Jim Thompson wrote: On Wed, 23 May 2012 15:40:17 -0500, "Dave" wrote: Posted a while back about a project I am trying to concoct- an intercom for my front door- and have made some progress. Unfortunately I hit a speed bump when I added transistor Q4. Now it only gives me noise at the output, and lots and lots of that. Capacitors are all 100uF 35V, which I am thinking may be the problem (maybe the last couple need to be 50 or 75V?) Originally thought I might be overdriving Q4, so I replaced it with a 2N5296 from my junkbox, but that just doubled the volume of the noisy output. If anyone sees something I should but don't, please post. The only thing I can think of is upping the voltage on C8 and C9. Any help is *greatly* appreciated... Dave Back up and do a little math. Calculate the bias current in that last stage. (In fact, calculate all your stage biases.) In my head, it's 14ma. That can't be right. The calc concurs. Is that a little bit too much? Aren't the emitter caps about 10 times as big as needed? Ian did notice that he was just throwing gain at the problem though. Yep, I was stunned... Ian said something cogent. But his buddy, Dave, is beyond all hope... rude little POS. I don't have AoE in reach, but I don't think they mention bias current in their approach to design. They approach it with the rule of thumb that the input impedance should be 10x the output impedance of the previous stage. Similar. (The input impedance of the OP's stages are only slightly higher than the previous output impedance.) I'd like to know if you use any rules of thumb for this sort of thing. Or is everything just optimized by multi-variable calculus? I don't know if there are "rules of thumb"... maybe just calculate rather than doing a NOLA white-trash guess ?:-) ...Jim Thompson Does it really make you feel good to talk that way about other people, calling someone you don't know a POS, and white-trash? Personally, I think it says a lot more about you than it does about me. And no, I don't know anything about the calculations involved in anything as simple as an audio amp. Like I said, I'm making this up as I go along. I don't know anything. I'm just trying to learn. Dave I tried to help, suggesting you calculate the bias currents. Rather than asking what I meant, if you're "just trying to learn", you smart-mouthed. And I don't respond well to smart-mouthed brats... it's enough of a problem to deal with Larkin ;-) You declared war on JL by being a spitefull old fart. Take care now - you're way past fighting on 2 fronts. Look at his posts. Nothing but boasting about how smart he is, how many things he's done, how many great ideas he has. But no content, no help, nothing but the occasional Spice graphs from who-knows-what secret circuits. He apparently expects all deference due to a self-declared "Master Circuit Designer" and gets all hen-squawkey when he doesn't get it. He doesn't seem to be interested in electronics at all. He doesn't "try to help", he just tries to inflate his ego. It's not working. Sad excuse for "war." So sayeth John "Dog Turd" Larkin ;-) ...Jim Thompson You must be one of those usenet pain sluts, the sort of person who craves public humiliation. On the other hand, you may just be a silly old fool. Most likely, old fool. Designed any "cool" circuits lately ?:-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#45
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 19:15:42 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 18:07:20 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 17:16:02 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 16:45:20 -0700, John Larkin wrote: On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 21:54:21 +0100, "Ian Field" wrote: "Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:32:20 -0500, "Dave" wrote: "Jim Thompson" wrote in message ... On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 22:12:30 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso" wrote: Jim Thompson wrote: On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 18:28:22 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso" wrote: Jim Thompson wrote: On Wed, 23 May 2012 15:40:17 -0500, "Dave" wrote: Posted a while back about a project I am trying to concoct- an intercom for my front door- and have made some progress. Unfortunately I hit a speed bump when I added transistor Q4. Now it only gives me noise at the output, and lots and lots of that. Capacitors are all 100uF 35V, which I am thinking may be the problem (maybe the last couple need to be 50 or 75V?) Originally thought I might be overdriving Q4, so I replaced it with a 2N5296 from my junkbox, but that just doubled the volume of the noisy output. If anyone sees something I should but don't, please post. The only thing I can think of is upping the voltage on C8 and C9. Any help is *greatly* appreciated... Dave Back up and do a little math. Calculate the bias current in that last stage. (In fact, calculate all your stage biases.) In my head, it's 14ma. That can't be right. The calc concurs. Is that a little bit too much? Aren't the emitter caps about 10 times as big as needed? Ian did notice that he was just throwing gain at the problem though. Yep, I was stunned... Ian said something cogent. But his buddy, Dave, is beyond all hope... rude little POS. I don't have AoE in reach, but I don't think they mention bias current in their approach to design. They approach it with the rule of thumb that the input impedance should be 10x the output impedance of the previous stage. Similar. (The input impedance of the OP's stages are only slightly higher than the previous output impedance.) I'd like to know if you use any rules of thumb for this sort of thing. Or is everything just optimized by multi-variable calculus? I don't know if there are "rules of thumb"... maybe just calculate rather than doing a NOLA white-trash guess ?:-) ...Jim Thompson Does it really make you feel good to talk that way about other people, calling someone you don't know a POS, and white-trash? Personally, I think it says a lot more about you than it does about me. And no, I don't know anything about the calculations involved in anything as simple as an audio amp. Like I said, I'm making this up as I go along. I don't know anything. I'm just trying to learn. Dave I tried to help, suggesting you calculate the bias currents. Rather than asking what I meant, if you're "just trying to learn", you smart-mouthed. And I don't respond well to smart-mouthed brats... it's enough of a problem to deal with Larkin ;-) You declared war on JL by being a spitefull old fart. Take care now - you're way past fighting on 2 fronts. Look at his posts. Nothing but boasting about how smart he is, how many things he's done, how many great ideas he has. But no content, no help, nothing but the occasional Spice graphs from who-knows-what secret circuits. He apparently expects all deference due to a self-declared "Master Circuit Designer" and gets all hen-squawkey when he doesn't get it. He doesn't seem to be interested in electronics at all. He doesn't "try to help", he just tries to inflate his ego. It's not working. Sad excuse for "war." So sayeth John "Dog Turd" Larkin ;-) ...Jim Thompson You must be one of those usenet pain sluts, the sort of person who craves public humiliation. On the other hand, you may just be a silly old fool. Most likely, old fool. Designed any "cool" circuits lately ?:-) ...Jim Thompson Yeah, this week I'm designing a small box, Ethernet, 5-channel timestamper with 12 ps LSB resolution. It's for a national lab, boom boys, but I'm putting in hooks and DRAM so it could do TOF histograms or 2D delay-line imaging. I get the first article of a new 10-amp NMR gradient driver to test next week, and we're just finishing the embedded uP code for our USB-based picosecond pulse generator. http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T240DS.shtml Look at that last view, #4. That is 100 ps/div, about the flattest, cleanest pulse you'll ever see at this speed. The bullet says the rise/fall times are 60 ps, but that's because we measure 10/90. Most people in the picosecond business use 20/80, and by that standard our edges are more like 40 ps. First unit ships on Monday if we finish all the calibration software. Those are all my designs. My guys have a few other things going: a synchro/resolver/LVDT thing, two separate OEM laser controllers, and some small stuff. How about you? Keeping busy? Loading your own ammo? -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators |
#46
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
"John Larkin" wrote in message ... Yeah, this week I'm designing a small box, Ethernet, 5-channel timestamper with 12 ps LSB resolution. It's for a national lab, boom boys, but I'm putting in hooks and DRAM so it could do TOF histograms or 2D delay-line imaging. I get the first article of a new 10-amp NMR gradient driver to test next week, and we're just finishing the embedded uP code for our USB-based picosecond pulse generator. http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T240DS.shtml Look at that last view, #4. That is 100 ps/div, about the flattest, cleanest pulse you'll ever see at this speed. The bullet says the rise/fall times are 60 ps, but that's because we measure 10/90. Most people in the picosecond business use 20/80, and by that standard our edges are more like 40 ps. First unit ships on Monday if we finish all the calibration software. Five ohm output impedance? Does that cause any reflections when doing TDR? tm |
#47
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On 6/7/2012 9:38 PM, flipper wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 13:42:13 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:32:20 -0500, "Dave" wrote: Does it really make you feel good to talk that way about other people, calling someone you don't know a POS, and white-trash? Personally, I think it says a lot more about you than it does about me. And no, I don't know anything about the calculations involved in anything as simple as an audio amp. Like I said, I'm making this up as I go along. I don't know anything. I'm just trying to learn. Dave I tried to help, suggesting you calculate the bias currents. Rather than asking what I meant, if you're "just trying to learn", you smart-mouthed. And I don't respond well to smart-mouthed brats... it's enough of a problem to deal with Larkin ;-) HOWEVER... If you are really "just trying to learn", calculate the bias as I suggested... why is it so high? And how much gain do you really need? Put some numbers on things, and I'll try to point you in the right direction. For really, I'll help... but take the chip off your shoulder. ...Jim Thompson Frankly, Jim, I think you've become so attuned to trading barbs with 'whoever' that the 'chip', so to speak, is on your shoulder and you misinterpreted his lack of knowledge as 'smart mouthed'. He said from day one he knows next to nothing so when you toss out what are to you 'blindingly obvious' things like "bias current" he doesn't know what you mean because, as he explained, 'to him' bias is a voltage. That not being "smart mouthed," it's just all he knows from what he's managed to 'pick up' from somewhere. I suspect you're used to 'challenging' EEs to 'think' but that isn't going to work here because he isn't an EE and will likely not understand what you're asking. You need to 'explain' things to him, not ask him to 'explain' it to you expecting that, in doing so, the 'light bulb' will go off and he'll 'realize' where you're going and the thing he's overlooked. +1. As a casual observer and infrequent poster, I agree with flipper's assessment. It appears to me that Jim is behaving with the characteristics of a pompous a**; not that he necessarily is one, but he very well could be. |
#48
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 00:04:13 -0400, "tm"
wrote: "John Larkin" wrote in message .. . Yeah, this week I'm designing a small box, Ethernet, 5-channel timestamper with 12 ps LSB resolution. It's for a national lab, boom boys, but I'm putting in hooks and DRAM so it could do TOF histograms or 2D delay-line imaging. I get the first article of a new 10-amp NMR gradient driver to test next week, and we're just finishing the embedded uP code for our USB-based picosecond pulse generator. http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T240DS.shtml Look at that last view, #4. That is 100 ps/div, about the flattest, cleanest pulse you'll ever see at this speed. The bullet says the rise/fall times are 60 ps, but that's because we measure 10/90. Most people in the picosecond business use 20/80, and by that standard our edges are more like 40 ps. First unit ships on Monday if we finish all the calibration software. Five ohm output impedance? Does that cause any reflections when doing TDR? tm It's not for doing TDR. It's main use will be to drive amplifiers that in turn drive lasers or E/O modulators. I assume the thing I'm driving is a 50 ohm load. I could make it 50 ohms, but that would cut the max amplitude in half. Next generation, I want to do at least 6 volts, truly 50 ohms... if I can find a driver circuit that can do it. Then I could drive E/O modulators directly. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators |
#49
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 22:36:56 -0700, RosemontCrest
wrote: On 6/7/2012 9:38 PM, flipper wrote: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 13:42:13 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:32:20 -0500, "Dave" wrote: Does it really make you feel good to talk that way about other people, calling someone you don't know a POS, and white-trash? Personally, I think it says a lot more about you than it does about me. And no, I don't know anything about the calculations involved in anything as simple as an audio amp. Like I said, I'm making this up as I go along. I don't know anything. I'm just trying to learn. Dave I tried to help, suggesting you calculate the bias currents. Rather than asking what I meant, if you're "just trying to learn", you smart-mouthed. And I don't respond well to smart-mouthed brats... it's enough of a problem to deal with Larkin ;-) HOWEVER... If you are really "just trying to learn", calculate the bias as I suggested... why is it so high? And how much gain do you really need? Put some numbers on things, and I'll try to point you in the right direction. For really, I'll help... but take the chip off your shoulder. ...Jim Thompson Frankly, Jim, I think you've become so attuned to trading barbs with 'whoever' that the 'chip', so to speak, is on your shoulder and you misinterpreted his lack of knowledge as 'smart mouthed'. He said from day one he knows next to nothing so when you toss out what are to you 'blindingly obvious' things like "bias current" he doesn't know what you mean because, as he explained, 'to him' bias is a voltage. That not being "smart mouthed," it's just all he knows from what he's managed to 'pick up' from somewhere. I suspect you're used to 'challenging' EEs to 'think' but that isn't going to work here because he isn't an EE and will likely not understand what you're asking. You need to 'explain' things to him, not ask him to 'explain' it to you expecting that, in doing so, the 'light bulb' will go off and he'll 'realize' where you're going and the thing he's overlooked. +1. As a casual observer and infrequent poster, I agree with flipper's assessment. It appears to me that Jim is behaving with the characteristics of a pompous a**; not that he necessarily is one, but he very well could be. He is! -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators |
#50
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
"John Larkin" wrote in message ... On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 00:04:13 -0400, "tm" wrote: "John Larkin" wrote in message . .. Yeah, this week I'm designing a small box, Ethernet, 5-channel timestamper with 12 ps LSB resolution. It's for a national lab, boom boys, but I'm putting in hooks and DRAM so it could do TOF histograms or 2D delay-line imaging. I get the first article of a new 10-amp NMR gradient driver to test next week, and we're just finishing the embedded uP code for our USB-based picosecond pulse generator. http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T240DS.shtml Look at that last view, #4. That is 100 ps/div, about the flattest, cleanest pulse you'll ever see at this speed. The bullet says the rise/fall times are 60 ps, but that's because we measure 10/90. Most people in the picosecond business use 20/80, and by that standard our edges are more like 40 ps. First unit ships on Monday if we finish all the calibration software. Five ohm output impedance? Does that cause any reflections when doing TDR? tm It's not for doing TDR. It's main use will be to drive amplifiers that in turn drive lasers or E/O modulators. I assume the thing I'm driving is a 50 ohm load. I could make it 50 ohms, but that would cut the max amplitude in half. Next generation, I want to do at least 6 volts, truly 50 ohms... if I can find a driver circuit that can do it. Then I could drive E/O modulators directly. That makes sense. I just wasn't sure you didn't have a typo in the specs. If there is a mismatch on the end of a cable, it could reflect back to the pulse generator and be re-reflected off the five ohm mismatch. I like the packaging. tm |
#51
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 10:56:36 -0400, "tm"
wrote: "John Larkin" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 00:04:13 -0400, "tm" wrote: "John Larkin" wrote in message ... Yeah, this week I'm designing a small box, Ethernet, 5-channel timestamper with 12 ps LSB resolution. It's for a national lab, boom boys, but I'm putting in hooks and DRAM so it could do TOF histograms or 2D delay-line imaging. I get the first article of a new 10-amp NMR gradient driver to test next week, and we're just finishing the embedded uP code for our USB-based picosecond pulse generator. http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T240DS.shtml Look at that last view, #4. That is 100 ps/div, about the flattest, cleanest pulse you'll ever see at this speed. The bullet says the rise/fall times are 60 ps, but that's because we measure 10/90. Most people in the picosecond business use 20/80, and by that standard our edges are more like 40 ps. First unit ships on Monday if we finish all the calibration software. Five ohm output impedance? Does that cause any reflections when doing TDR? tm It's not for doing TDR. It's main use will be to drive amplifiers that in turn drive lasers or E/O modulators. I assume the thing I'm driving is a 50 ohm load. I could make it 50 ohms, but that would cut the max amplitude in half. Next generation, I want to do at least 6 volts, truly 50 ohms... if I can find a driver circuit that can do it. Then I could drive E/O modulators directly. That makes sense. I just wasn't sure you didn't have a typo in the specs. If there is a mismatch on the end of a cable, it could reflect back to the pulse generator and be re-reflected off the five ohm mismatch. I like the packaging. tm The box is a standard Hammond enclosure. You see them (or possibly their clones) everywhere nowadays. Nice box, very EMI tight. This is the PC board: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/PC...irst_Board.JPG Frankly, the hardest part was getting the signals out of U8 (on the right) into the edge-launch SMA connectors, trying to keep a clean fast 50 ohm path. Rob and I did dueling EM simulations (ATLC under Linux, ATLC2 under Windows respectively) of the connector and PCB stackup, and it came out pretty good, some unknown mix of wisdom and dumb luck. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/ATLC/T240.jpg https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/ATLC/E-field.jpg There is a small inductive glitch at the connector/PCB transition, as TDRd on the actual board. ATLC, being a 2D simulator, isn't up to stuff like this. I'm theorizing that's caused by a tiny gap between the connector PCB pads and the edge of the board. The fix would be to move the connector footprint about 20 mils to the right. Then the PC house would be cutting away copper when they route the board outline, which means they would probably call us and tell us that we did the layout wrong, and we'd have to tell them to go ahead and cut the copper. Some day I should lay out a board with maybe a dozen edge-launch variations, just to find the best one. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators |
#52
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
"John Larkin" wrote in message ... On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 10:56:36 -0400, "tm" wrote: "John Larkin" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 00:04:13 -0400, "tm" wrote: "John Larkin" wrote in message m... Yeah, this week I'm designing a small box, Ethernet, 5-channel timestamper with 12 ps LSB resolution. It's for a national lab, boom boys, but I'm putting in hooks and DRAM so it could do TOF histograms or 2D delay-line imaging. I get the first article of a new 10-amp NMR gradient driver to test next week, and we're just finishing the embedded uP code for our USB-based picosecond pulse generator. http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T240DS.shtml Look at that last view, #4. That is 100 ps/div, about the flattest, cleanest pulse you'll ever see at this speed. The bullet says the rise/fall times are 60 ps, but that's because we measure 10/90. Most people in the picosecond business use 20/80, and by that standard our edges are more like 40 ps. First unit ships on Monday if we finish all the calibration software. Five ohm output impedance? Does that cause any reflections when doing TDR? tm It's not for doing TDR. It's main use will be to drive amplifiers that in turn drive lasers or E/O modulators. I assume the thing I'm driving is a 50 ohm load. I could make it 50 ohms, but that would cut the max amplitude in half. Next generation, I want to do at least 6 volts, truly 50 ohms... if I can find a driver circuit that can do it. Then I could drive E/O modulators directly. That makes sense. I just wasn't sure you didn't have a typo in the specs. If there is a mismatch on the end of a cable, it could reflect back to the pulse generator and be re-reflected off the five ohm mismatch. I like the packaging. tm The box is a standard Hammond enclosure. You see them (or possibly their clones) everywhere nowadays. Nice box, very EMI tight. This is the PC board: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/PC...irst_Board.JPG Frankly, the hardest part was getting the signals out of U8 (on the right) into the edge-launch SMA connectors, trying to keep a clean fast 50 ohm path. Rob and I did dueling EM simulations (ATLC under Linux, ATLC2 under Windows respectively) of the connector and PCB stackup, and it came out pretty good, some unknown mix of wisdom and dumb luck. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/ATLC/T240.jpg https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/ATLC/E-field.jpg There is a small inductive glitch at the connector/PCB transition, as TDRd on the actual board. ATLC, being a 2D simulator, isn't up to stuff like this. I'm theorizing that's caused by a tiny gap between the connector PCB pads and the edge of the board. The fix would be to move the connector footprint about 20 mils to the right. Then the PC house would be cutting away copper when they route the board outline, which means they would probably call us and tell us that we did the layout wrong, and we'd have to tell them to go ahead and cut the copper. Some day I should lay out a board with maybe a dozen edge-launch variations, just to find the best one. Why not just notch the board 20 mils to move the connector in closer. You can then put a lock washer between the flange and the case. Might also solder the ground plane all the way across the connector in addition to the pins. Doing a test board would be an interesting experiment. |
#53
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 23:38:42 -0500, flipper wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 13:42:13 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:32:20 -0500, "Dave" wrote: Does it really make you feel good to talk that way about other people, calling someone you don't know a POS, and white-trash? Personally, I think it says a lot more about you than it does about me. And no, I don't know anything about the calculations involved in anything as simple as an audio amp. Like I said, I'm making this up as I go along. I don't know anything. I'm just trying to learn. Dave I tried to help, suggesting you calculate the bias currents. Rather than asking what I meant, if you're "just trying to learn", you smart-mouthed. And I don't respond well to smart-mouthed brats... it's enough of a problem to deal with Larkin ;-) HOWEVER... If you are really "just trying to learn", calculate the bias as I suggested... why is it so high? And how much gain do you really need? Put some numbers on things, and I'll try to point you in the right direction. For really, I'll help... but take the chip off your shoulder. ...Jim Thompson Frankly, Jim, I think you've become so attuned to trading barbs with 'whoever' that the 'chip', so to speak, is on your shoulder and you misinterpreted his lack of knowledge as 'smart mouthed'. He said from day one he knows next to nothing so when you toss out what are to you 'blindingly obvious' things like "bias current" he doesn't know what you mean because, as he explained, 'to him' bias is a voltage. That not being "smart mouthed," it's just all he knows from what he's managed to 'pick up' from somewhere. I suspect you're used to 'challenging' EEs to 'think' but that isn't going to work here because he isn't an EE and will likely not understand what you're asking. You need to 'explain' things to him, not ask him to 'explain' it to you expecting that, in doing so, the 'light bulb' will go off and he'll 'realize' where you're going and the thing he's overlooked. So, what should I do, just design it for him? But you're correct, maybe I nudged Dave like I would an engineer, but isn't this mild... [JT] "Back up and do a little math. Calculate the bias current in that last stage. (In fact, calculate all your stage biases.) How much voltage gain do you need? What is the load impedance? Is it a speaker?" [Dave] "Don't mean to be critical, but these seem like very generic" questions." == What the hell does that mean? Nothing like, "How...", or an answer to my gain question. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#54
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 22:36:56 -0700, RosemontCrest
wrote: On 6/7/2012 9:38 PM, flipper wrote: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 13:42:13 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 7 Jun 2012 15:32:20 -0500, "Dave" wrote: Does it really make you feel good to talk that way about other people, calling someone you don't know a POS, and white-trash? Personally, I think it says a lot more about you than it does about me. And no, I don't know anything about the calculations involved in anything as simple as an audio amp. Like I said, I'm making this up as I go along. I don't know anything. I'm just trying to learn. Dave I tried to help, suggesting you calculate the bias currents. Rather than asking what I meant, if you're "just trying to learn", you smart-mouthed. And I don't respond well to smart-mouthed brats... it's enough of a problem to deal with Larkin ;-) HOWEVER... If you are really "just trying to learn", calculate the bias as I suggested... why is it so high? And how much gain do you really need? Put some numbers on things, and I'll try to point you in the right direction. For really, I'll help... but take the chip off your shoulder. ...Jim Thompson Frankly, Jim, I think you've become so attuned to trading barbs with 'whoever' that the 'chip', so to speak, is on your shoulder and you misinterpreted his lack of knowledge as 'smart mouthed'. He said from day one he knows next to nothing so when you toss out what are to you 'blindingly obvious' things like "bias current" he doesn't know what you mean because, as he explained, 'to him' bias is a voltage. That not being "smart mouthed," it's just all he knows from what he's managed to 'pick up' from somewhere. I suspect you're used to 'challenging' EEs to 'think' but that isn't going to work here because he isn't an EE and will likely not understand what you're asking. You need to 'explain' things to him, not ask him to 'explain' it to you expecting that, in doing so, the 'light bulb' will go off and he'll 'realize' where you're going and the thing he's overlooked. +1. As a casual observer and infrequent poster, I agree with flipper's assessment. It appears to me that Jim is behaving with the characteristics of a pompous a**; not that he necessarily is one, but he very well could be. I try, as best as I can ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#55
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 12:14:57 -0400, "tm"
wrote: "John Larkin" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 10:56:36 -0400, "tm" wrote: "John Larkin" wrote in message ... On Fri, 8 Jun 2012 00:04:13 -0400, "tm" wrote: "John Larkin" wrote in message om... Yeah, this week I'm designing a small box, Ethernet, 5-channel timestamper with 12 ps LSB resolution. It's for a national lab, boom boys, but I'm putting in hooks and DRAM so it could do TOF histograms or 2D delay-line imaging. I get the first article of a new 10-amp NMR gradient driver to test next week, and we're just finishing the embedded uP code for our USB-based picosecond pulse generator. http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/T240DS.shtml Look at that last view, #4. That is 100 ps/div, about the flattest, cleanest pulse you'll ever see at this speed. The bullet says the rise/fall times are 60 ps, but that's because we measure 10/90. Most people in the picosecond business use 20/80, and by that standard our edges are more like 40 ps. First unit ships on Monday if we finish all the calibration software. Five ohm output impedance? Does that cause any reflections when doing TDR? tm It's not for doing TDR. It's main use will be to drive amplifiers that in turn drive lasers or E/O modulators. I assume the thing I'm driving is a 50 ohm load. I could make it 50 ohms, but that would cut the max amplitude in half. Next generation, I want to do at least 6 volts, truly 50 ohms... if I can find a driver circuit that can do it. Then I could drive E/O modulators directly. That makes sense. I just wasn't sure you didn't have a typo in the specs. If there is a mismatch on the end of a cable, it could reflect back to the pulse generator and be re-reflected off the five ohm mismatch. I like the packaging. tm The box is a standard Hammond enclosure. You see them (or possibly their clones) everywhere nowadays. Nice box, very EMI tight. This is the PC board: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/PC...irst_Board.JPG Frankly, the hardest part was getting the signals out of U8 (on the right) into the edge-launch SMA connectors, trying to keep a clean fast 50 ohm path. Rob and I did dueling EM simulations (ATLC under Linux, ATLC2 under Windows respectively) of the connector and PCB stackup, and it came out pretty good, some unknown mix of wisdom and dumb luck. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/ATLC/T240.jpg https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53724080/ATLC/E-field.jpg There is a small inductive glitch at the connector/PCB transition, as TDRd on the actual board. ATLC, being a 2D simulator, isn't up to stuff like this. I'm theorizing that's caused by a tiny gap between the connector PCB pads and the edge of the board. The fix would be to move the connector footprint about 20 mils to the right. Then the PC house would be cutting away copper when they route the board outline, which means they would probably call us and tell us that we did the layout wrong, and we'd have to tell them to go ahead and cut the copper. Some day I should lay out a board with maybe a dozen edge-launch variations, just to find the best one. Why not just notch the board 20 mils to move the connector in closer. The board is notched, but only to clear the end-plate on the box. The real issue is whether the footprint of the connector goes all the way to the edge of the board. For that to happen, we really have to cut copper when the fab shop routes the board. No big deal, I'll do that next time. You can then put a lock washer between the flange and the case. Might also solder the ground plane all the way across the connector in addition to the pins. The layer 2 ground plane is deliberately cut out, under the connector, to control the impedance. There is a solid ground pour on layer 4, the bottom, between the connector tangs, but there's not much e-field down there so that doesn't matter much. Doing a test board would be an interesting experiment. Yeah, I accumulate ideas and unknowns and, every once in a while, throw them onto a 4-layer board and have a few fabbed. Throw in a few test microstrips, filter layouts, connector adapters, whatever. Somebody with time could accumulate layout bits from various people and do a layout, shear it up into sections, and distribute. People could share the fab expense. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators |
#56
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Wed, 23 May 2012 15:40:17 -0500, "Dave" wrote:
Posted a while back about a project I am trying to concoct- an intercom for my front door- and have made some progress. Unfortunately I hit a speed bump when I added transistor Q4. Now it only gives me noise at the output, and lots and lots of that. Capacitors are all 100uF 35V, which I am thinking may be the problem (maybe the last couple need to be 50 or 75V?) Originally thought I might be overdriving Q4, so I replaced it with a 2N5296 from my junkbox, but that just doubled the volume of the noisy output. If anyone sees something I should but don't, please post. The only thing I can think of is upping the voltage on C8 and C9. Any help is *greatly* appreciated... Dave Look over this page for some ideas... http://www.next.gr/telephone/intercom-circuits/ ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#57
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 15:30:03 -0500, flipper wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 09:31:33 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 23:38:42 -0500, flipper wrote: Frankly, Jim, I think you've become so attuned to trading barbs with 'whoever' that the 'chip', so to speak, is on your shoulder and you misinterpreted his lack of knowledge as 'smart mouthed'. He said from day one he knows next to nothing so when you toss out what are to you 'blindingly obvious' things like "bias current" he doesn't know what you mean because, as he explained, 'to him' bias is a voltage. That not being "smart mouthed," it's just all he knows from what he's managed to 'pick up' from somewhere. I suspect you're used to 'challenging' EEs to 'think' but that isn't going to work here because he isn't an EE and will likely not understand what you're asking. You need to 'explain' things to him, not ask him to 'explain' it to you expecting that, in doing so, the 'light bulb' will go off and he'll 'realize' where you're going and the thing he's overlooked. So, what should I do, just design it for him? Might actually be easier. But you're correct, maybe I nudged Dave like I would an engineer, but isn't this mild... It is for someone who knows what you mean, but not for someone who knows close to nothing. After all, the very first response was confusion about "bias current." Well, if he doesn't know what it is then he can't calculate it, right? And it's not because he can't divide V by R. He didn't understand the jargon "bias current" and we might as well ask him to calculate the fubar ratio. What's a fubar? Worse, actually, because he was at least somewhat familiar with "bias voltage" so instead of a completely alien term it seemed inconsistent with the limited knowledge he did have.. [JT] "Back up and do a little math. Calculate the bias current in that last stage. (In fact, calculate all your stage biases.) How much voltage gain do you need? What is the load impedance? Is it a speaker?" [Dave] "Don't mean to be critical, but these seem like very generic" questions." == What the hell does that mean? I think it may have meant something akin to "how do those (generic) things relate to my (specific) noisy speaker?" Nothing like, "How...", or an answer to my gain question. I certainly don't want to get into an 'argument' over this but you're being rather 'selective' in the quotes. For "bias current" he tried to 'guess' you meant collector current (in the last stage) and answered 180 mA. As for gain, he figured he had enough. That, of course, isn't what you asked but what difference does it make? (I imagine him wondering since he probably didn't see that being related to his stated 'problem'). He answered the speaker and load question: "Load is an 8 Ohm speaker." And after what you view as a mystery question he queried "What, specifically, are you thinking?" Now, I can see that, to you, the phrase "what are you thinking?" might have sounded like a 'challenge' but I think he simply had no idea where you were going, what the purpose of the 'calculations' were (plus he didn't know what "bias current" meant), what the point was, and how it related to his, not necessarily correct, concept of the problem, which may not be the issues you were addressing. Its not an uncommon problem when 'expert' speaks to 'novice' because what is so engrained that it's instinctively 'knee jerk' obvious to one, including the jargon, is 'huh?' to the other. ...Jim Thompson Maybe it'd be easier if I simply design it for them. No controversy, and maybe I gain a customer when they can't understand it O:-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#58
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
Jim Thompson wrote: "Don't mean to be critical, but these seem like very generic" questions." What the hell does that mean? I think it may have meant something akin to "how do those (generic) things relate to my (specific) noisy speaker?" That showed a complete lack of common sense analytical ability. It isn't just a lack of knowledge. He was being closed-minded. I actually remember the first time I heard of bias current. It was upon reading the datasheet for the LM319 comparator about 25 years ago. It took about 100 ms to realize that, where there is a voltage applied to a finite resistance, there is also a current, and it comes from the same source. The reason Dave didn't realize that is not because it was too hard for him. It's because he didn't know who you were, and assumed you didn't know what you were talking about, so he didn't even think about it. He might not know how to calculate Thevinin equivalents (that the parallel resistance formula is applied to series resistors is not obvious) but he didn't ask how. He just assumed you were wrong. Yes, he said it nicely at first, but it was still an arrogant assumption. -- Reply in group, but if emailing add one more zero, and remove the last word. |
#59
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 15:30:03 -0500, flipper wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 09:31:33 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote: On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 23:38:42 -0500, flipper wrote: Frankly, Jim, I think you've become so attuned to trading barbs with 'whoever' that the 'chip', so to speak, is on your shoulder and you misinterpreted his lack of knowledge as 'smart mouthed'. He said from day one he knows next to nothing so when you toss out what are to you 'blindingly obvious' things like "bias current" he doesn't know what you mean because, as he explained, 'to him' bias is a voltage. That not being "smart mouthed," it's just all he knows from what he's managed to 'pick up' from somewhere. I suspect you're used to 'challenging' EEs to 'think' but that isn't going to work here because he isn't an EE and will likely not understand what you're asking. You need to 'explain' things to him, not ask him to 'explain' it to you expecting that, in doing so, the 'light bulb' will go off and he'll 'realize' where you're going and the thing he's overlooked. So, what should I do, just design it for him? Might actually be easier. But you're correct, maybe I nudged Dave like I would an engineer, but isn't this mild... It is for someone who knows what you mean, but not for someone who knows close to nothing. After all, the very first response was confusion about "bias current." Well, if he doesn't know what it is then he can't calculate it, right? And it's not because he can't divide V by R. He didn't understand the jargon "bias current" and we might as well ask him to calculate the fubar ratio. What's a fubar? Worse, actually, because he was at least somewhat familiar with "bias voltage" so instead of a completely alien term it seemed inconsistent with the limited knowledge he did have.. [JT] "Back up and do a little math. Calculate the bias current in that last stage. (In fact, calculate all your stage biases.) How much voltage gain do you need? What is the load impedance? Is it a speaker?" [Dave] "Don't mean to be critical, but these seem like very generic" questions." == What the hell does that mean? I think it may have meant something akin to "how do those (generic) things relate to my (specific) noisy speaker?" Nothing like, "How...", or an answer to my gain question. I certainly don't want to get into an 'argument' over this but you're being rather 'selective' in the quotes. For "bias current" he tried to 'guess' you meant collector current (in the last stage) and answered 180 mA. As for gain, he figured he had enough. That, of course, isn't what you asked but what difference does it make? (I imagine him wondering since he probably didn't see that being related to his stated 'problem'). He answered the speaker and load question: "Load is an 8 Ohm speaker." And after what you view as a mystery question he queried "What, specifically, are you thinking?" Now, I can see that, to you, the phrase "what are you thinking?" might have sounded like a 'challenge' but I think he simply had no idea where you were going, what the purpose of the 'calculations' were (plus he didn't know what "bias current" meant), what the point was, and how it related to his, not necessarily correct, concept of the problem, which may not be the issues you were addressing. Its not an uncommon problem when 'expert' speaks to 'novice' because what is so engrained that it's instinctively 'knee jerk' obvious to one, including the jargon, is 'huh?' to the other. ...Jim Thompson BTW flipper this group is supposedly for working engineers. Persons like Dave should stay in s.e.b instead. ?-) |
#60
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
"flipper" wrote in message ... On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 22:03:13 -0700, josephkk wrote: BTW flipper this group is supposedly for working engineers. Oh? That's the first I heard of it. Persons like Dave should stay in s.e.b instead. Probably a good place to ask questions. But let's give the boy some credit. He did post a schematic, which is more on topic than a lot of what goes on around here. And the person ripping on him was the worst offender. |
#61
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Wed, 23 May 2012 15:40:17 -0500, "Dave" wrote:
Posted a while back about a project I am trying to concoct- an intercom for my front door- and have made some progress. Unfortunately I hit a speed bump when I added transistor Q4. Now it only gives me noise at the output, and lots and lots of that. Capacitors are all 100uF 35V, which I am thinking may be the problem (maybe the last couple need to be 50 or 75V?) Originally thought I might be overdriving Q4, so I replaced it with a 2N5296 from my junkbox, but that just doubled the volume of the noisy output. If anyone sees something I should but don't, please post. The only thing I can think of is upping the voltage on C8 and C9. Any help is *greatly* appreciated... Dave See attachments showing bias and simulation. Googling suggests intercom gain should be only 250X for speaker as source and speaker as load. Plus the bias in that last stage is terminal. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#62
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Wed, 23 May 2012 15:40:17 -0500, "Dave" wrote:
Posted a while back about a project I am trying to concoct- an intercom for my front door- and have made some progress. Unfortunately I hit a speed bump when I added transistor Q4. Now it only gives me noise at the output, and lots and lots of that. Capacitors are all 100uF 35V, which I am thinking may be the problem (maybe the last couple need to be 50 or 75V?) Originally thought I might be overdriving Q4, so I replaced it with a 2N5296 from my junkbox, but that just doubled the volume of the noisy output. If anyone sees something I should but don't, please post. The only thing I can think of is upping the voltage on C8 and C9. Any help is *greatly* appreciated... Dave See... From: Jim Thompson Newsgroups: alt.binaries.schematics.electronic Subject: Okay, so, what am I missing here? Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2012 09:48:31 -0700 Message-ID: ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#63
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Okay, so, what am I missing here? - Intercom_Possibility_KISS.png
On Wed, 23 May 2012 15:40:17 -0500, "Dave" wrote:
Posted a while back about a project I am trying to concoct- an intercom for my front door- and have made some progress. Unfortunately I hit a speed bump when I added transistor Q4. Now it only gives me noise at the output, and lots and lots of that. Capacitors are all 100uF 35V, which I am thinking may be the problem (maybe the last couple need to be 50 or 75V?) Originally thought I might be overdriving Q4, so I replaced it with a 2N5296 from my junkbox, but that just doubled the volume of the noisy output. If anyone sees something I should but don't, please post. The only thing I can think of is upping the voltage on C8 and C9. Any help is *greatly* appreciated... Dave See attachment for the KISS approach... ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#64
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Okay, so, what am I missing here? - Intercom_Possibility_KISS.png
Jim Thompson wrote: See attachment for the KISS approach... Why only 1 diode drop, and not 2, between the bases? Or, why doesn't that cause non-linearity? -- Reply in group, but if emailing add one more zero, and remove the last word. |
#65
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Okay, so, what am I missing here? - Intercom_Possibility_KISS.png
On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 19:43:57 -0400, "Tom Del Rosso"
wrote: Jim Thompson wrote: See attachment for the KISS approach... Why only 1 diode drop, and not 2, between the bases? 2 Diodes runs the risk of thermal runaway... I was keeping it KISS. Or, why doesn't that cause non-linearity? Yes, But there's feedback, look at the waveform, you can see the distortion, but it's mild... and it's just an intercom after all. I CAN make the output PERFECT class-AB, but I will not be divulging that technique... some day I hope to find a buyer... although that hope keeps diminishing... the true audiophile seems long gone :-( ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#66
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
On Wed, 23 May 2012 15:40:17 -0500, "Dave" wrote:
Posted a while back about a project I am trying to concoct- an intercom for my front door- and have made some progress. Unfortunately I hit a speed bump when I added transistor Q4. Now it only gives me noise at the output, and lots and lots of that. Capacitors are all 100uF 35V, which I am thinking may be the problem (maybe the last couple need to be 50 or 75V?) Originally thought I might be overdriving Q4, so I replaced it with a 2N5296 from my junkbox, but that just doubled the volume of the noisy output. If anyone sees something I should but don't, please post. The only thing I can think of is upping the voltage on C8 and C9. Any help is *greatly* appreciated... Dave See attachments for bias and simulation results. Googling suggests gain needed from a speaker source to a speaker load is only 250X. You have too much gain, plus dissipation in last transistor would be terminal. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#67
Posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronic,sci.electronics.design
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Okay, so, what am I missing here?
In article ,
josephkk wrote: BTW flipper this group is supposedly for working engineers. No, it isn't. Mark Zenier Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com) |
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