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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Amazing Chinese forging video
I cannot stop watching this video, nothing short of amazing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41dcYUvNLk Clearly very smart people, forging with just forklifts and a huge drop hammer |
#2
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Amazing Chinese forging video
Ignoramus15685 wrote:
I cannot stop watching this video, nothing short of amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41dcYUvNLk Clearly very smart people, forging with just forklifts and a huge drop hammer I saw that yesterday, almost shared the link as well. It's a real ugly operation until they machine the thing down. You can see calipers at one point and the rest of the measuring seems to be with some sort of rod with markings of some sort. My question is how consistent are those flanges from the start of the shift to the end, or on a rainy day when they're slipping in mud or anything like that. |
#3
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Amazing Chinese forging video
To hot for mud :-)
I suspect the rods were marked - hole smaller than this - and flange ..... The company doesn't want to pound out another or 50% for mistakes. Wrought iron not pouring. And the base must be a beast into the ground! Not much bounce in the ground near by or anywhere. I think "we" went into pouring the form and then machine out the final. Martin On 12/27/2016 12:34 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote: Ignoramus15685 wrote: I cannot stop watching this video, nothing short of amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41dcYUvNLk Clearly very smart people, forging with just forklifts and a huge drop hammer I saw that yesterday, almost shared the link as well. It's a real ugly operation until they machine the thing down. You can see calipers at one point and the rest of the measuring seems to be with some sort of rod with markings of some sort. My question is how consistent are those flanges from the start of the shift to the end, or on a rainy day when they're slipping in mud or anything like that. |
#4
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On 2016-12-28, Martin Eastburn wrote:
To hot for mud :-) I suspect the rods were marked - hole smaller than this - and flange ..... The company doesn't want to pound out another or 50% for mistakes. Wrought iron not pouring. And the base must be a beast into the ground! Not much bounce in the ground near by or anywhere. I think "we" went into pouring the form and then machine out the final. But cast is not as strong as forged, no? i Martin On 12/27/2016 12:34 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote: Ignoramus15685 wrote: I cannot stop watching this video, nothing short of amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41dcYUvNLk Clearly very smart people, forging with just forklifts and a huge drop hammer I saw that yesterday, almost shared the link as well. It's a real ugly operation until they machine the thing down. You can see calipers at one point and the rest of the measuring seems to be with some sort of rod with markings of some sort. My question is how consistent are those flanges from the start of the shift to the end, or on a rainy day when they're slipping in mud or anything like that. |
#5
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On 2016-12-27, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ignoramus15685 wrote: I cannot stop watching this video, nothing short of amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41dcYUvNLk Clearly very smart people, forging with just forklifts and a huge drop hammer I saw that yesterday, almost shared the link as well. It's a real ugly operation until they machine the thing down. You can see calipers at one point and the rest of the measuring seems to be with some sort of rod with markings of some sort. My question is how consistent are those flanges from the start of the shift to the end, or on a rainy day when they're slipping in mud or anything like that. It looks like they know what they are doing, removing last 1/2 inch or so |
#6
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Amazing Chinese forging video
"Ignoramus15685" wrote in
message ... I cannot stop watching this video, nothing short of amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41dcYUvNLk Clearly very smart people, forging with just forklifts and a huge drop hammer Metalworking in China is about as old as in India and the Near East. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...lurgy_in_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor..._in_South_Asia http://mathewpeet.org/science/materials/steel/history/ AFAICT the development in each region depended on the characteristics of the local ore, such as the phosphorus content that makes cast iron easier to melt and pour but steel weaker. |
#7
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 8:43:58 AM UTC-5, Ignoramus22750 wrote:
I think "we" went into pouring the form and then machine out the final. But cast is not as strong as forged, no? i Cast is not as strong as forged. I can still remember seeing anchor chain being drop forged in the navy shipyard in Boston in about 1954 or 1955. Dan |
#8
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Amazing Chinese forging video
wrote in message
... On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 8:43:58 AM UTC-5, Ignoramus22750 wrote: I think "we" went into pouring the form and then machine out the final. But cast is not as strong as forged, no? i Cast is not as strong as forged. I can still remember seeing anchor chain being drop forged in the navy shipyard in Boston in about 1954 or 1955. Dan http://www.cashenblades.com/images/a...s/lowdown.html |
#9
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Amazing Chinese forging video
Ignoramus15685 wrote:
I cannot stop watching this video, nothing short of amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41dcYUvNLk Clearly very smart people, forging with just forklifts and a huge drop hammer Geez, what a dangerous occupation. A few of them were at least wearing face shields, but if anything went wrong, somebody could be killed for sure! Guys holding several TONS of yellow-hot steel with tongs from just a few FEET away, while that drop hammer just wails away on the piece. Sheesh, I can only imagine how long those guys work at this before somebody gets hurt BADLY. Probably just weeks before they have to reset the "days since last accident" clock back to zero. Jon |
#10
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On 12/28/2016 1:37 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
.... Sheesh, I can only imagine how long those guys work at this before somebody gets hurt BADLY. Probably just weeks before they have to reset the "days since last accident" clock back to zero. The one resource for certain the Chinese don't lack is manpower... |
#11
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 8:43:58 AM UTC-5, Ignoramus22750 wrote:
On 2016-12-28, Martin Eastburn wrote: To hot for mud :-) I suspect the rods were marked - hole smaller than this - and flange ...... The company doesn't want to pound out another or 50% for mistakes. Wrought iron not pouring. And the base must be a beast into the ground! Not much bounce in the ground near by or anywhere. I think "we" went into pouring the form and then machine out the final. But cast is not as strong as forged, no? i That piece is not iron. It's steel. Of course, if you're a nitpicker, steel is a type of iron. d8-) Big pieces of wrought iron are very rare and have been for around a century. Cast iron is strong in compression -- stronger than forged (wrought) iron. But, except for ductile iron and malleable, more or less, it's weaker in tension and it's very brittle. You would not open-die forge any ductile or malleable iron to the degree of this example. It's not up to that much hot working. Again, though, that piece is steel. It's much stronger than wrought iron. The forging will make it a bit stronger, but casting steel is an iffy proposition, anyway. -- Ed Huntress Martin On 12/27/2016 12:34 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote: Ignoramus15685 wrote: I cannot stop watching this video, nothing short of amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41dcYUvNLk Clearly very smart people, forging with just forklifts and a huge drop hammer I saw that yesterday, almost shared the link as well. It's a real ugly operation until they machine the thing down. You can see calipers at one point and the rest of the measuring seems to be with some sort of rod with markings of some sort. My question is how consistent are those flanges from the start of the shift to the end, or on a rainy day when they're slipping in mud or anything like that. |
#12
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Amazing Chinese forging video
Ignoramus22750 wrote:
On 2016-12-27, Cydrome Leader wrote: Ignoramus15685 wrote: I cannot stop watching this video, nothing short of amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41dcYUvNLk Clearly very smart people, forging with just forklifts and a huge drop hammer I saw that yesterday, almost shared the link as well. It's a real ugly operation until they machine the thing down. You can see calipers at one point and the rest of the measuring seems to be with some sort of rod with markings of some sort. My question is how consistent are those flanges from the start of the shift to the end, or on a rainy day when they're slipping in mud or anything like that. It looks like they know what they are doing, removing last 1/2 inch or so There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. |
#13
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Amazing Chinese forging video
Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus15685 wrote: I cannot stop watching this video, nothing short of amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41dcYUvNLk Clearly very smart people, forging with just forklifts and a huge drop hammer Geez, what a dangerous occupation. A few of them were at least wearing face shields, but if anything went wrong, somebody could be killed for sure! Guys holding several TONS of yellow-hot steel with tongs from just a few FEET away, while that drop hammer just wails away on the piece. Sheesh, I can only imagine how long those guys work at this before somebody gets hurt BADLY. Probably just weeks before they have to reset the "days since last accident" clock back to zero. Jon |
#14
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Amazing Chinese forging video
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#16
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 07:52:36 -0600, Ignoramus15685
wrote: I cannot stop watching this video, nothing short of amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41dcYUvNLk Clearly very smart people, forging with just forklifts and a huge drop hammer And I thought my previous job sucked! Someone else mentioned that just some of them were wearing face shields, I noticed a lack of hearing protection. No 'muffs' and likely none at all. Also noticed the lucky lift driver getting misted with a hose a few times. Need to watch it again and see what else I missed. -- William |
#17
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On 12/28/2016 2:01 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
.... There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. I not call that "cottage"; looks like pretty sizable operation and clearly this is far from the first of these this crew has made. I'd guess there's a final set of more-or-less conventional machining operations undertaken before final use... I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. Didn't try to estimate thickness nor stresses, but I'd also bet the stress levels are pretty minimal as compared to actual yield values. IOW, there's likely quite a lot of margin for the end use. Being as it's obvious they've been turning these out in large numbers by the practiced movements, if they weren't up to snuff in application initially, they certainly are by this point simply by experience if nothing else... |
#18
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Amazing Chinese forging video
If you saw the machine bay - there were a number of these.
I figure they are part of a bearing surface for Tree works or ground works. Martin On 12/28/2016 3:37 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 4:21:48 PM UTC-5, David Billington wrote: On 28/12/16 19:44, wrote: On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 8:43:58 AM UTC-5, Ignoramus22750 wrote: On 2016-12-28, Martin Eastburn wrote: To hot for mud :-) I suspect the rods were marked - hole smaller than this - and flange ..... The company doesn't want to pound out another or 50% for mistakes. Wrought iron not pouring. And the base must be a beast into the ground! Not much bounce in the ground near by or anywhere. I think "we" went into pouring the form and then machine out the final. But cast is not as strong as forged, no? i That piece is not iron. It's steel. Of course, if you're a nitpicker, steel is a type of iron. d8-) Big pieces of wrought iron are very rare and have been for around a century. Cast iron is strong in compression -- stronger than forged (wrought) iron. But, except for ductile iron and malleable, more or less, it's weaker in tension and it's very brittle. You would not open-die forge any ductile or malleable iron to the degree of this example. It's not up to that much hot working. Again, though, that piece is steel. It's much stronger than wrought iron. The forging will make it a bit stronger, but casting steel is an iffy proposition, anyway. Why is casting steel an iffy proposition? it's done all the time. My neighbour was building a miniature US steam locomotive and that apparently had a one piece cast steel frame which from memory would have been in full size some 60' to 80' long. Higher casting temperatures and fairly low fluidity are limiting factors for steel castings. There are other issues that sometimes cause problems, such as shrinkage where section thicknesses change. A piece like the one in the video clearly is a cutoff section of steel off of the first or second rolling stand; a custom order, probably, because it probably couldn't be made in a modern continuous-casting operation. It's too thick. |
#19
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 9:43:47 PM UTC-5, Martin Eastburn wrote:
If you saw the machine bay - there were a number of these. I figure they are part of a bearing surface for Tree works or ground works. Martin What's a Tree works? -- Ed Huntress On 12/28/2016 3:37 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 4:21:48 PM UTC-5, David Billington wrote: On 28/12/16 19:44, wrote: On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 8:43:58 AM UTC-5, Ignoramus22750 wrote: On 2016-12-28, Martin Eastburn wrote: To hot for mud :-) I suspect the rods were marked - hole smaller than this - and flange ..... The company doesn't want to pound out another or 50% for mistakes. Wrought iron not pouring. And the base must be a beast into the ground! Not much bounce in the ground near by or anywhere. I think "we" went into pouring the form and then machine out the final. But cast is not as strong as forged, no? i That piece is not iron. It's steel. Of course, if you're a nitpicker, steel is a type of iron. d8-) Big pieces of wrought iron are very rare and have been for around a century. Cast iron is strong in compression -- stronger than forged (wrought) iron. But, except for ductile iron and malleable, more or less, it's weaker in tension and it's very brittle. You would not open-die forge any ductile or malleable iron to the degree of this example. It's not up to that much hot working. Again, though, that piece is steel. It's much stronger than wrought iron. The forging will make it a bit stronger, but casting steel is an iffy proposition, anyway. Why is casting steel an iffy proposition? it's done all the time. My neighbour was building a miniature US steam locomotive and that apparently had a one piece cast steel frame which from memory would have been in full size some 60' to 80' long. Higher casting temperatures and fairly low fluidity are limiting factors for steel castings. There are other issues that sometimes cause problems, such as shrinkage where section thicknesses change. A piece like the one in the video clearly is a cutoff section of steel off of the first or second rolling stand; a custom order, probably, because it probably couldn't be made in a modern continuous-casting operation. It's too thick. |
#20
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Amazing Chinese forging video
"dpb" wrote in message
news On 12/28/2016 2:01 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote: ... There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. I not call that "cottage"; looks like pretty sizable operation and clearly this is far from the first of these this crew has made. I'd guess there's a final set of more-or-less conventional machining operations undertaken before final use... I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. Didn't try to estimate thickness nor stresses, but I'd also bet the stress levels are pretty minimal as compared to actual yield values. IOW, there's likely quite a lot of margin for the end use. Being as it's obvious they've been turning these out in large numbers by the practiced movements, if they weren't up to snuff in application initially, they certainly are by this point simply by experience if nothing else... After examining links of this chain I'm glad I wasn't in the crew that hand-forged it: Splitting firewood is enough for me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_River_Chain http://www.albanyinstitute.org/detai...son-river.html The early paddle-wheel steamboats required huge forged crankshafts that strained the limits of blacksmithing. http://www.makingthemodernworld.org....0-1880/IC.047/ Forging a small one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL4jqvGwrqs -jsw |
#21
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On 12/29/2016 6:18 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message news .... Being as it's obvious they've been turning these out in large numbers by the practiced movements, ... After examining links of this chain I'm glad I wasn't in the crew that hand-forged it: Splitting firewood is enough for me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_River_Chain http://www.albanyinstitute.org/detai...son-river.html .... Indeed, the early ingenuity and diligence tend to amaze us as we're so used to everything being manipulated by other than what to us now seems "brute force"... |
#22
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On 12/29/2016 8:38 AM, dpb wrote:
.... After examining links of this chain I'm glad I wasn't in the crew that hand-forged it: Splitting firewood is enough for me. Actually, on further thought, perhaps that would've been easier than the installation??? |
#23
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Amazing Chinese forging video
I forgot - they cut down the trees up north.
They have been replanting forests here for 100 years. Trees are taller than power poles. They are trimmed to be the 60' to 80' bark trimmed and coated in several chemicals. Tree works use large machinery that are crane like with saws on the bottom and grippers that grab the base of the tree saw slice it off and then lean it over and spit it out with rollers while trimming the limbs off. Nice thing about Pine and hybrid pine - grow tall and straight. Massive tree industry of machines that need to rotate in near 180 degrees and back toting tons in the process and back to work. Like the ground work machines - dredgers and dozers... scrapers, and all - they have tree counterparts. John Deer has two divisions of Tree Work machines. Then there is other companies as well. Used world wide. Martin On 12/28/2016 9:35 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 9:43:47 PM UTC-5, Martin Eastburn wrote: If you saw the machine bay - there were a number of these. I figure they are part of a bearing surface for Tree works or ground works. Martin What's a Tree works? |
#24
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 11:01:32 PM UTC-5, Martin Eastburn wrote:
I forgot - they cut down the trees up north. Aha. They have been replanting forests here for 100 years. Trees are taller than power poles. They are trimmed to be the 60' to 80' bark trimmed and coated in several chemicals. Tree works use large machinery that are crane like with saws on the bottom and grippers that grab the base of the tree saw slice it off and then lean it over and spit it out with rollers while trimming the limbs off. Nice thing about Pine and hybrid pine - grow tall and straight. I've seen some videos of that. It's one hell of an example of automated harvesting. Massive tree industry of machines that need to rotate in near 180 degrees and back toting tons in the process and back to work. Like the ground work machines - dredgers and dozers... scrapers, and all - they have tree counterparts. John Deer has two divisions of Tree Work machines. Then there is other companies as well. Used world wide. Martin On 12/28/2016 9:35 PM, wrote: On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 9:43:47 PM UTC-5, Martin Eastburn wrote: If you saw the machine bay - there were a number of these. I figure they are part of a bearing surface for Tree works or ground works. Martin What's a Tree works? |
#25
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On Friday, December 30, 2016 at 11:46:35 AM UTC-5, del gato wrote:
On 12/30/2016 12:28 AM, wrote: they cut down the trees up north. Aha. As I posted, old man: Wrong thread, Raton. Your hands must be shaking. -- Ed Huntress |
#26
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Amazing Chinese forging video
Cydrome Leader writes: There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the flange. When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set hammer -- the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never goes too far and crushes the lip. We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered stroke. The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right. Cool stuff, great teamwork. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. Is there any reason to believe that the workpiece isn't just mild -- low carbon -- steel? No special hear treating required if it's not burned for forged too cold. I have a piece of oil rig pipe here that is, I think, supposed to be good to 6,000 PSI, seems to be made of kinda weird steel. 100 PSI is small potatoes. -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada |
#27
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Amazing Chinese forging video
Mike Spencer wrote:
Cydrome Leader writes: There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the flange. When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set hammer -- the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never goes too far and crushes the lip. We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered stroke. The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right. Cool stuff, great teamwork. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. Is there any reason to believe that the workpiece isn't just mild -- low carbon -- steel? No special hear treating required if it's not burned for forged too cold. I have a piece of oil rig pipe here that is, I think, supposed to be good to 6,000 PSI, seems to be made of kinda weird steel. 100 PSI is small potatoes. That's sort of my point there. What if anything is being controlled in that operation? The forging looks hot in some parts of the video and cool on others. Didn't see any tempstick action, but it is an edited video. Skill of the team aside, it's still a real corny looking operation. |
#28
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 8:13:12 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Mike Spencer wrote: Cydrome Leader writes: There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the flange. When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set hammer -- the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never goes too far and crushes the lip. We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered stroke. The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right. Cool stuff, great teamwork. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. Is there any reason to believe that the workpiece isn't just mild -- low carbon -- steel? No special hear treating required if it's not burned for forged too cold. I have a piece of oil rig pipe here that is, I think, supposed to be good to 6,000 PSI, seems to be made of kinda weird steel. 100 PSI is small potatoes. That's sort of my point there. What if anything is being controlled in that operation? The forging looks hot in some parts of the video and cool on others. Didn't see any tempstick action, but it is an edited video. Skill of the team aside, it's still a real corny looking operation. If you saw the way they open-die-forged tool steel ingots (some 15 feet long and 2 feet in diameter) as recently as the '70s, you wouldn't see much difference. They keep hammering that ingot until it won't hammer anymore. No templesticks, no temperature gaging at all. They just look at the color of the slag as it peels off. I saw one of those in Chicago around 1977. The dynamics were the same, but the rotation of the work was automated. -- Ed Huntress |
#29
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Amazing Chinese forging video
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#30
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 5:41:03 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
wrote: On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 8:13:12 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: Mike Spencer wrote: Cydrome Leader writes: There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the flange. When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set hammer -- the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never goes too far and crushes the lip. We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered stroke. The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right. Cool stuff, great teamwork. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. Is there any reason to believe that the workpiece isn't just mild -- low carbon -- steel? No special hear treating required if it's not burned for forged too cold. I have a piece of oil rig pipe here that is, I think, supposed to be good to 6,000 PSI, seems to be made of kinda weird steel. 100 PSI is small potatoes. That's sort of my point there. What if anything is being controlled in that operation? The forging looks hot in some parts of the video and cool on others. Didn't see any tempstick action, but it is an edited video. Skill of the team aside, it's still a real corny looking operation. If you saw the way they open-die-forged tool steel ingots (some 15 feet long and 2 feet in diameter) as recently as the '70s, you wouldn't see much difference. They keep hammering that ingot until it won't hammer anymore. No templesticks, no temperature gaging at all. They just look at the color of the slag as it peels off. I saw one of those in Chicago around 1977. The dynamics were the same, but the rotation of the work was automated. So in other words, the video shown is at least 40 years behind the times. That's the state of large open-die forging operations all over the world. The only advance is in robotic, or otherwise automated, work rotation and positioning. Was the place you saw surrounded by muddy ruts, like in the video? It was in downtown Chicago -- somewhere on the south side. I forget the company name but it was a major supplier of tool steels. The ingot I described was, IIRC, D2 steel. As for mud huts -- not quite, but you wouldn't want to live there. -- Ed Huntress |
#31
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Amazing Chinese forging video
wrote in message ... On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 5:41:03 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: wrote: On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 8:13:12 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: Mike Spencer wrote: Cydrome Leader writes: There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the flange. When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set hammer -- the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never goes too far and crushes the lip. We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered stroke. The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right. Cool stuff, great teamwork. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. Is there any reason to believe that the workpiece isn't just mild -- low carbon -- steel? No special hear treating required if it's not burned for forged too cold. I have a piece of oil rig pipe here that is, I think, supposed to be good to 6,000 PSI, seems to be made of kinda weird steel. 100 PSI is small potatoes. That's sort of my point there. What if anything is being controlled in that operation? The forging looks hot in some parts of the video and cool on others. Didn't see any tempstick action, but it is an edited video. Skill of the team aside, it's still a real corny looking operation. If you saw the way they open-die-forged tool steel ingots (some 15 feet long and 2 feet in diameter) as recently as the '70s, you wouldn't see much difference. They keep hammering that ingot until it won't hammer anymore. No templesticks, no temperature gaging at all. They just look at the color of the slag as it peels off. I saw one of those in Chicago around 1977. The dynamics were the same, but the rotation of the work was automated. So in other words, the video shown is at least 40 years behind the times. That's the state of large open-die forging operations all over the world. The only advance is in robotic, or otherwise automated, work rotation and positioning. Was the place you saw surrounded by muddy ruts, like in the video? It was in downtown Chicago -- somewhere on the south side. I forget the company name but it was a major supplier of tool steels. The ingot I described was, IIRC, D2 steel. As for mud huts -- not quite, but you wouldn't want to live there. -- Ed Huntress Probably Anderson-Shumaker. They're still down there. Up until a few years ago They were still doing that sort of stuff at Finkl's north side plant. When I was jonesing for a hit of heavy industry, I would go up there and watch em through the open doors. They would stop traffic while the "Finklemobile" carted a glowing billet the size of a cargo van across the street to be rough forged into some giant crankshaft. Damn, I miss it. Paul K. Dickman |
#32
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 11:33:56 AM UTC-5, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
wrote in message ... On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 5:41:03 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: wrote: On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 8:13:12 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: Mike Spencer wrote: Cydrome Leader writes: There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the flange. When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set hammer -- the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never goes too far and crushes the lip. We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered stroke. The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right. Cool stuff, great teamwork. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. Is there any reason to believe that the workpiece isn't just mild -- low carbon -- steel? No special hear treating required if it's not burned for forged too cold. I have a piece of oil rig pipe here that is, I think, supposed to be good to 6,000 PSI, seems to be made of kinda weird steel. 100 PSI is small potatoes. That's sort of my point there. What if anything is being controlled in that operation? The forging looks hot in some parts of the video and cool on others. Didn't see any tempstick action, but it is an edited video. Skill of the team aside, it's still a real corny looking operation. If you saw the way they open-die-forged tool steel ingots (some 15 feet long and 2 feet in diameter) as recently as the '70s, you wouldn't see much difference. They keep hammering that ingot until it won't hammer anymore. No templesticks, no temperature gaging at all. They just look at the color of the slag as it peels off. I saw one of those in Chicago around 1977. The dynamics were the same, but the rotation of the work was automated. So in other words, the video shown is at least 40 years behind the times. That's the state of large open-die forging operations all over the world. The only advance is in robotic, or otherwise automated, work rotation and positioning. Was the place you saw surrounded by muddy ruts, like in the video? It was in downtown Chicago -- somewhere on the south side. I forget the company name but it was a major supplier of tool steels. The ingot I described was, IIRC, D2 steel. As for mud huts -- not quite, but you wouldn't want to live there. -- Ed Huntress Probably Anderson-Shumaker. They're still down there. Up until a few years ago They were still doing that sort of stuff at Finkl's north side plant. When I was jonesing for a hit of heavy industry, I would go up there and watch em through the open doors. They would stop traffic while the "Finklemobile" carted a glowing billet the size of a cargo van across the street to be rough forged into some giant crankshaft. Damn, I miss it. Paul K. Dickman Yes! Actually, my fading memory ran the two of them together. I've been to both mills, but the forging of that big tool steel ingot was at Finkl. -- Ed Huntress |
#33
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Amazing Chinese forging video
wrote in message ... On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 11:33:56 AM UTC-5, Paul K. Dickman wrote: wrote in message ... On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 5:41:03 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: wrote: On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 8:13:12 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: Mike Spencer wrote: Cydrome Leader writes: There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the flange. When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set hammer -- the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never goes too far and crushes the lip. We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered stroke. The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right. Cool stuff, great teamwork. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. Is there any reason to believe that the workpiece isn't just mild -- low carbon -- steel? No special hear treating required if it's not burned for forged too cold. I have a piece of oil rig pipe here that is, I think, supposed to be good to 6,000 PSI, seems to be made of kinda weird steel. 100 PSI is small potatoes. That's sort of my point there. What if anything is being controlled in that operation? The forging looks hot in some parts of the video and cool on others. Didn't see any tempstick action, but it is an edited video. Skill of the team aside, it's still a real corny looking operation. If you saw the way they open-die-forged tool steel ingots (some 15 feet long and 2 feet in diameter) as recently as the '70s, you wouldn't see much difference. They keep hammering that ingot until it won't hammer anymore. No templesticks, no temperature gaging at all. They just look at the color of the slag as it peels off. I saw one of those in Chicago around 1977. The dynamics were the same, but the rotation of the work was automated. So in other words, the video shown is at least 40 years behind the times. That's the state of large open-die forging operations all over the world. The only advance is in robotic, or otherwise automated, work rotation and positioning. Was the place you saw surrounded by muddy ruts, like in the video? It was in downtown Chicago -- somewhere on the south side. I forget the company name but it was a major supplier of tool steels. The ingot I described was, IIRC, D2 steel. As for mud huts -- not quite, but you wouldn't want to live there. -- Ed Huntress Probably Anderson-Shumaker. They're still down there. Up until a few years ago They were still doing that sort of stuff at Finkl's north side plant. When I was jonesing for a hit of heavy industry, I would go up there and watch em through the open doors. They would stop traffic while the "Finklemobile" carted a glowing billet the size of a cargo van across the street to be rough forged into some giant crankshaft. Damn, I miss it. Paul K. Dickman Yes! Actually, my fading memory ran the two of them together. I've been to both mills, but the forging of that big tool steel ingot was at Finkl. -- Ed Huntress Finkl closed up their northside plant and moved to the southside. The whole site has been bulldozed flat and sold to a developer. Back in the late 80's, they turned the area into a "Planned Manufacturing District" to protect it from residential encroachment, but no sooner did they do that, than they started cutting out chunks for retail shopping centers. For nearly thirty years they have been chomping at the bit to slap housing on that area, looks like they'll finally get their wish. Paul K. Dickman |
#34
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Amazing Chinese forging video
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message news Finkl closed up their northside plant and moved to the southside. The whole site has been bulldozed flat and sold to a developer. Back in the late 80's, they turned the area into a "Planned Manufacturing District" to protect it from residential encroachment, but no sooner did they do that, than they started cutting out chunks for retail shopping centers. For nearly thirty years they have been chomping at the bit to slap housing on that area, looks like they'll finally get their wish. Paul K. Dickman WGN news had a report about finkl, seems thier south side neighbors don't like them. The people near the plant are bitching about noise, smells, vibration and broken promises. Best Regards Tom. |
#35
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 1:59:24 PM UTC-5, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
wrote in message ... On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 11:33:56 AM UTC-5, Paul K. Dickman wrote: wrote in message ... On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 5:41:03 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: wrote: On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 8:13:12 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: Mike Spencer wrote: Cydrome Leader writes: There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the flange. When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set hammer -- the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never goes too far and crushes the lip. We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered stroke. The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right. Cool stuff, great teamwork. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt.. It's not really clear. Is there any reason to believe that the workpiece isn't just mild -- low carbon -- steel? No special hear treating required if it's not burned for forged too cold. I have a piece of oil rig pipe here that is, I think, supposed to be good to 6,000 PSI, seems to be made of kinda weird steel. 100 PSI is small potatoes. That's sort of my point there. What if anything is being controlled in that operation? The forging looks hot in some parts of the video and cool on others. Didn't see any tempstick action, but it is an edited video. Skill of the team aside, it's still a real corny looking operation. |
#36
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Amazing Chinese forging video
I hope we don't find out in 30 years that this is a poison hole
that pollute the ground with chemicals and heavy metals...... Martin On 1/2/2017 12:58 PM, Paul K. Dickman wrote: wrote in message ... On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 11:33:56 AM UTC-5, Paul K. Dickman wrote: wrote in message ... On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 5:41:03 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: wrote: On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 8:13:12 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: Mike Spencer wrote: Cydrome Leader writes: There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the flange. When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set hammer -- the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never goes too far and crushes the lip. We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered stroke. The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right. Cool stuff, great teamwork. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. Is there any reason to believe that the workpiece isn't just mild -- low carbon -- steel? No special hear treating required if it's not burned for forged too cold. I have a piece of oil rig pipe here that is, I think, supposed to be good to 6,000 PSI, seems to be made of kinda weird steel. 100 PSI is small potatoes. That's sort of my point there. What if anything is being controlled in that operation? The forging looks hot in some parts of the video and cool on others. Didn't see any tempstick action, but it is an edited video. Skill of the team aside, it's still a real corny looking operation. If you saw the way they open-die-forged tool steel ingots (some 15 feet long and 2 feet in diameter) as recently as the '70s, you wouldn't see much difference. They keep hammering that ingot until it won't hammer anymore. No templesticks, no temperature gaging at all. They just look at the color of the slag as it peels off. I saw one of those in Chicago around 1977. The dynamics were the same, but the rotation of the work was automated. So in other words, the video shown is at least 40 years behind the times. That's the state of large open-die forging operations all over the world. The only advance is in robotic, or otherwise automated, work rotation and positioning. Was the place you saw surrounded by muddy ruts, like in the video? It was in downtown Chicago -- somewhere on the south side. I forget the company name but it was a major supplier of tool steels. The ingot I described was, IIRC, D2 steel. As for mud huts -- not quite, but you wouldn't want to live there. -- Ed Huntress Probably Anderson-Shumaker. They're still down there. Up until a few years ago They were still doing that sort of stuff at Finkl's north side plant. When I was jonesing for a hit of heavy industry, I would go up there and watch em through the open doors. They would stop traffic while the "Finklemobile" carted a glowing billet the size of a cargo van across the street to be rough forged into some giant crankshaft. Damn, I miss it. Paul K. Dickman Yes! Actually, my fading memory ran the two of them together. I've been to both mills, but the forging of that big tool steel ingot was at Finkl. -- Ed Huntress Finkl closed up their northside plant and moved to the southside. The whole site has been bulldozed flat and sold to a developer. Back in the late 80's, they turned the area into a "Planned Manufacturing District" to protect it from residential encroachment, but no sooner did they do that, than they started cutting out chunks for retail shopping centers. For nearly thirty years they have been chomping at the bit to slap housing on that area, looks like they'll finally get their wish. Paul K. Dickman |
#37
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Amazing Chinese forging video
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message
news ... They would stop traffic while the "Finklemobile" carted a glowing billet the size of a cargo van across the street to be rough forged into some giant crankshaft. Damn, I miss it. Paul K. Dickman http://www.gutenberg.org/files/53854...-h/53854-h.htm -jsw |
#38
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Amazing Chinese forging video
wrote in message ... On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 1:59:24 PM UTC-5, Paul K. Dickman wrote: wrote in message ... On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 11:33:56 AM UTC-5, Paul K. Dickman wrote: wrote in message ... On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 5:41:03 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: wrote: On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 8:13:12 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: Mike Spencer wrote: Cydrome Leader writes: There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the flange. When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set hammer -- the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never goes too far and crushes the lip. We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered stroke. The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right. Cool stuff, great teamwork. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's not really clear. Is there any reason to believe that the workpiece isn't just mild -- low carbon -- steel? No special hear treating required if it's not burned for forged too cold. I have a piece of oil rig pipe here that is, I think, supposed to be good to 6,000 PSI, seems to be made of kinda weird steel. 100 PSI is small potatoes. That's sort of my point there. What if anything is being controlled in that operation? The forging looks hot in some parts of the video and cool on others. Didn't see any tempstick action, but it is an edited video. Skill of the team aside, it's still a real corny looking operation. If you saw the way they open-die-forged tool steel ingots (some 15 feet long and 2 feet in diameter) as recently as the '70s, you wouldn't see much difference. They keep hammering that ingot until it won't hammer anymore. No templesticks, no temperature gaging at all. They just look at the color of the slag as it peels off. I saw one of those in Chicago around 1977. The dynamics were the same, but the rotation of the work was automated. So in other words, the video shown is at least 40 years behind the times. That's the state of large open-die forging operations all over the world. The only advance is in robotic, or otherwise automated, work rotation and positioning. Was the place you saw surrounded by muddy ruts, like in the video? It was in downtown Chicago -- somewhere on the south side. I forget the company name but it was a major supplier of tool steels. The ingot I described was, IIRC, D2 steel. As for mud huts -- not quite, but you wouldn't want to live there. -- Ed Huntress Probably Anderson-Shumaker. They're still down there. Up until a few years ago They were still doing that sort of stuff at Finkl's north side plant. When I was jonesing for a hit of heavy industry, I would go up there and watch em through the open doors. They would stop traffic while the "Finklemobile" carted a glowing billet the size of a cargo van across the street to be rough forged into some giant crankshaft. Damn, I miss it. Paul K. Dickman Yes! Actually, my fading memory ran the two of them together. I've been to both mills, but the forging of that big tool steel ingot was at Finkl. -- Ed Huntress Finkl closed up their northside plant and moved to the southside. The whole site has been bulldozed flat and sold to a developer. Back in the late 80's, they turned the area into a "Planned Manufacturing District" to protect it from residential encroachment, but no sooner did they do that, than they started cutting out chunks for retail shopping centers. For nearly thirty years they have been chomping at the bit to slap housing on that area, looks like they'll finally get their wish. Paul K. Dickman Huh. I don't remember the area. I was there on a 4-day press junket put on by the American Iron and Steel Institute (AISI), and they bused us all around Illinois and Indiana, from the coal mines in the south to the big primary steel mills on the Lake Michigan shore. The forging operation at Finkl was impressive as hell. I was writing about remelting for making the highest-quality steel at the time (electroslag and vacuum-arc remelting), so that's where I spent most of my time. But the big forging operation was a real eye-catcher. The other eye-catcher was quenching a heat of coke. Did you ever see that done? It blackened the sky for miles. Not long after, doing it without filters was outlawed in the US and most of Europe. People who live downwind of those operations in China and India die at an early age. -- Ed Huntress If you were there in the 70's, it was still pretty much a wasteland. Imagine Park Slope and Williamsburg were closer together and the border was a Brooklyn navy yard consisting of a river flanked by 300 acres of scrapyards, low-rise factories and shopping centers. That'll give you an idea of what has had developers drooling. As for the coke, I did particulate testing at Granite City Steel for a couple of weeks in the 70's. Frankly, I was so gobsmacked by the smelting operation that I don't remember what the coking looked like. Paul K. Dickman |
#39
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Amazing Chinese forging video
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 12:02:34 PM UTC-5, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
wrote in message ... On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 1:59:24 PM UTC-5, Paul K. Dickman wrote: wrote in message ... On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 11:33:56 AM UTC-5, Paul K. Dickman wrote: wrote in message ... On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 5:41:03 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: wrote: On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 8:13:12 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote: Mike Spencer wrote: Cydrome Leader writes: There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if I ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be made of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about cottage type industry. Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the flange. When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set hammer -- the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never goes too far and crushes the lip. We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered stroke. The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right. Cool stuff, great teamwork. I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI that's 90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a sound part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. |
#40
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Amazing Chinese forging video
Howard Beal wrote:
"Paul K. Dickman" wrote in message news Finkl closed up their northside plant and moved to the southside. The whole site has been bulldozed flat and sold to a developer. Back in the late 80's, they turned the area into a "Planned Manufacturing District" to protect it from residential encroachment, but no sooner did they do that, than they started cutting out chunks for retail shopping centers. For nearly thirty years they have been chomping at the bit to slap housing on that area, looks like they'll finally get their wish. Paul K. Dickman WGN news had a report about finkl, seems thier south side neighbors don't like them. The people near the plant are bitching about noise, smells, vibration and broken promises. It's a ****ing steel mill that makes huge forgings. Not sure what they were expecting. I'm glad they're still around though. |
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