On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 11:33:56 AM UTC-5, Paul K. Dickman wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 5:41:03 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
wrote:
On Saturday, December 31, 2016 at 8:13:12 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader
wrote:
Mike Spencer wrote:

Cydrome Leader writes:

There's no question they've made a huge flange of some sort, but if
I
ordered 100 of them, would they vary at all? Would they even all be
made
of the same type of steel etc. That's where I have questions about
cottage
type industry.

Notice when they're doing the 2nd and 3rd round of forging the
flange.
When the hammer strikes, it brings (what passes for) the set
hammer --
the block of steel on a long stick -- down flush with the lip, never
goes too far and crushes the lip.

We never see the hammer driver but I'd say he's hot stuff, lots of
practice. Note that it's apparently a drop hammer, no powered
stroke.
The hammer driver has to raise the tup just enough, reckoning on the
remaining heat at any stage, to get the blow just right.

Cool stuff, great teamwork.

I think it was mentioned that's a flange for a 48" pipe. At 100 PSI
that's
90 tons of force trying to tear that thing apart. It has to be a
sound
part and not just "close enough". Forgings still need proper heat
treatment, and from that video maybe they just bury it in dirt. It's
not
really clear.

Is there any reason to believe that the workpiece isn't just mild --
low carbon -- steel? No special hear treating required if it's not
burned for forged too cold. I have a piece of oil rig pipe here that
is, I think, supposed to be good to 6,000 PSI, seems to be made of
kinda weird steel. 100 PSI is small potatoes.

That's sort of my point there. What if anything is being controlled in
that operation? The forging looks hot in some parts of the video and
cool
on others. Didn't see any tempstick action, but it is an edited video.

Skill of the team aside, it's still a real corny looking operation.

If you saw the way they open-die-forged tool steel ingots (some 15 feet
long and 2 feet in diameter) as recently as the '70s, you wouldn't see
much difference. They keep hammering that ingot until it won't hammer
anymore. No templesticks, no temperature gaging at all. They just look
at the color of the slag as it peels off.

I saw one of those in Chicago around 1977. The dynamics were the same,
but the rotation of the work was automated.

So in other words, the video shown is at least 40 years behind the times.

That's the state of large open-die forging operations all over the world.
The only advance is in robotic, or otherwise automated, work rotation and
positioning.


Was the place you saw surrounded by muddy ruts, like in the video?

It was in downtown Chicago -- somewhere on the south side. I forget the
company name but it was a major supplier of tool steels. The ingot I
described was, IIRC, D2 steel.

As for mud huts -- not quite, but you wouldn't want to live there.

--
Ed Huntress

Probably Anderson-Shumaker. They're still down there.
Up until a few years ago They were still doing that sort of stuff at Finkl's
north side plant.
When I was jonesing for a hit of heavy industry, I would go up there and
watch em through the open doors.

They would stop traffic while the "Finklemobile" carted a glowing billet the
size of a cargo van across the street to be rough forged into some giant
crankshaft.

Damn, I miss it.

Paul K. Dickman

Yes! Actually, my fading memory ran the two of them together. I've been to both mills, but the forging of that big tool steel ingot was at Finkl.

--
Ed Huntress