I'm using a spray gun/cup HVLP system to spray a glossy acrylic pain on
wood, and for some reason the finish refuses to gloss. When spread with
a brush, it looks great, although with brush marks. Has anyone seen
this problem before? I'm about to apply a water-based urethane to try
to get the shiny finish if necessary.

Wrong distance to work, too fast application, not enough fluid.

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"MVG" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm using a spray gun/cup HVLP system to spray a glossy acrylic pain on
wood, and for some reason the finish refuses to gloss. When spread with
a brush, it looks great, although with brush marks. Has anyone seen
this problem before? I'm about to apply a water-based urethane to try
to get the shiny finish if necessary.

Probably the same issue as with latex gloss paint. It naturally sprays
with less gloss than when applied with a brush. Nature of the beast.
I'd bet you aren't doing anything "wrong". Someone explained the
mechanism that dulls that type of paint when sprayed but I forgot. It
was a paint rep. that told me the details. It's NOT the typical "too
dry", "too far away" syndrome. Don't let 'em blame your technique.
It's a property of latex, and I'm betting it's a property of the
acrylic, too.

Dave

MVG wrote:

I'm using a spray gun/cup HVLP system to spray a glossy acrylic pain on
wood, and for some reason the finish refuses to gloss. When spread with
a brush, it looks great, although with brush marks. Has anyone seen
this problem before? I'm about to apply a water-based urethane to try
to get the shiny finish if necessary.

Hi David,
I spray a lot of acrylic and have not suffered any loss of gloss. It sure
sounds like dry spray to me. JG

David wrote:

Probably the same issue as with latex gloss paint. It naturally sprays
with less gloss than when applied with a brush. Nature of the beast.
I'd bet you aren't doing anything "wrong". Someone explained the
mechanism that dulls that type of paint when sprayed but I forgot. It
was a paint rep. that told me the details. It's NOT the typical "too
dry", "too far away" syndrome. Don't let 'em blame your technique.
It's a property of latex, and I'm betting it's a property of the
acrylic, too.

Dave

MVG wrote:

I'm using a spray gun/cup HVLP system to spray a glossy acrylic pain on
wood, and for some reason the finish refuses to gloss. When spread with
a brush, it looks great, although with brush marks. Has anyone seen
this problem before? I'm about to apply a water-based urethane to try
to get the shiny finish if necessary.

Gee I spray cars with an HVLP gun and it glosses just fine, but I'll take
your suggestion and try a brush on the fender next time. VBG

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"David" wrote in message
...
Probably the same issue as with latex gloss paint. It naturally sprays
with less gloss than when applied with a brush. Nature of the beast.
I'd bet you aren't doing anything "wrong". Someone explained the
mechanism that dulls that type of paint when sprayed but I forgot. It
was a paint rep. that told me the details. It's NOT the typical "too
dry", "too far away" syndrome. Don't let 'em blame your technique.
It's a property of latex, and I'm betting it's a property of the
acrylic, too.

Dave

MVG wrote:

I'm using a spray gun/cup HVLP system to spray a glossy acrylic pain on
wood, and for some reason the finish refuses to gloss. When spread with
a brush, it looks great, although with brush marks. Has anyone seen
this problem before? I'm about to apply a water-based urethane to try
to get the shiny finish if necessary.

I defer to your experience, since the discussion I had with a paint pro
was regarding latex.

Dave

JGS wrote:
Hi David,
I spray a lot of acrylic and have not suffered any loss of gloss. It sure
sounds like dry spray to me. JG

David wrote:

I was thinking that acrylic MIGHT be the same as latex, since I painted
a ceiling with acrylic ceiling paint. I didn't think it was that much
different. Latex DOES spray with less gloss than when brushed.

Dave

Rumpty wrote:

Gee I spray cars with an HVLP gun and it glosses just fine, but I'll take
your suggestion and try a brush on the fender next time. VBG

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"David" wrote in message
...

Probably the same issue as with latex gloss paint. It naturally sprays
with less gloss than when applied with a brush. Nature of the beast.
I'd bet you aren't doing anything "wrong". Someone explained the
mechanism that dulls that type of paint when sprayed but I forgot. It
was a paint rep. that told me the details. It's NOT the typical "too
dry", "too far away" syndrome. Don't let 'em blame your technique.
It's a property of latex, and I'm betting it's a property of the
acrylic, too.

Dave

MVG wrote:


I'm using a spray gun/cup HVLP system to spray a glossy acrylic pain on
wood, and for some reason the finish refuses to gloss. When spread with
a brush, it looks great, although with brush marks. Has anyone seen
this problem before? I'm about to apply a water-based urethane to try
to get the shiny finish if necessary.

just a second. Isn't there a product called "acrylic latex"? perhaps
you and I are talking 2 different types of paint.

Dave

David wrote:

I was thinking that acrylic MIGHT be the same as latex, since I painted
a ceiling with acrylic ceiling paint. I didn't think it was that much
different. Latex DOES spray with less gloss than when brushed.

Dave

Rumpty wrote:

Gee I spray cars with an HVLP gun and it glosses just fine, but I'll take
your suggestion and try a brush on the fender next time. VBG

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"David" wrote in message
...

Probably the same issue as with latex gloss paint. It naturally sprays
with less gloss than when applied with a brush. Nature of the beast.
I'd bet you aren't doing anything "wrong". Someone explained the
mechanism that dulls that type of paint when sprayed but I forgot. It
was a paint rep. that told me the details. It's NOT the typical "too
dry", "too far away" syndrome. Don't let 'em blame your technique.
It's a property of latex, and I'm betting it's a property of the
acrylic, too.

Dave

MVG wrote:


I'm using a spray gun/cup HVLP system to spray a glossy acrylic pain on
wood, and for some reason the finish refuses to gloss. When spread with
a brush, it looks great, although with brush marks. Has anyone seen
this problem before? I'm about to apply a water-based urethane to try
to get the shiny finish if necessary.

"MVG" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm using a spray gun/cup HVLP system to spray a glossy acrylic pain on
wood, and for some reason the finish refuses to gloss. When spread with
a brush, it looks great, although with brush marks. Has anyone seen
this problem before? I'm about to apply a water-based urethane to try
to get the shiny finish if necessary.


Having read all of the other replies, I'll throw in the basic question - are
you mixing according to the manufacturer's spec? No cheating. Too much
reducer will cause finishes to lay down.

-Mike-

The paint I'm using is Sherwin-Williams "PROCLASSIC waterborne interior
acrylic gloss enamel". The can gives no recommendations on any sprayer
other than an airless system. I have diluted it with water to the
maximum viscosity that will still allow the siphon to operate and get a
decent rate of flow.

I wonder if it would help to dilute it further to get a higher
flow/thicker coat?

What does "not enough fluid" mean? And "dry spray"?

Thanks for more help on this! I hate to resort ot a clearcoat unless I
have to.

Latex requires a heavy duty dedicated HVLP system. I would say a
3 stage, 4stage preferred. If you are using a single stage rig,
you have diluted the stuff almost to water.

Gloss paint work requires a continuous full wet coat. It is an
art to apply a full wet coat without runs. A good automotive
painter earns his keep.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"MVG" wrote in message
ups.com...
The paint I'm using is Sherwin-Williams "PROCLASSIC waterborne
interior
acrylic gloss enamel". The can gives no recommendations on any
sprayer
other than an airless system. I have diluted it with water to
the
maximum viscosity that will still allow the siphon to operate
and get a
decent rate of flow.

I wonder if it would help to dilute it further to get a higher
flow/thicker coat?

What does "not enough fluid" mean? And "dry spray"?

Thanks for more help on this! I hate to resort ot a clearcoat
unless I
have to.

Wow, I'm a handyman with a compressor and a cup HVLP sprayer, not a
crazy man with such a high-tech system! Perhaps it is impossible to
achieve a glossy sprayed surface with such a paint.

Is there another paint that will work with my sprayer that can achieve
a glossy finish?

What Dan said.

I have a 4 stage HVLP. The distributor claims it's ok to dilute up to
20% with water/Floetrol. seems reasonable to me, and it worked for me
with less dilution. Spraying latex with a weak HVLP system or the wrong
tip will not make it worth your time.

Dave

MVG wrote:

The paint I'm using is Sherwin-Williams "PROCLASSIC waterborne interior
acrylic gloss enamel". The can gives no recommendations on any sprayer
other than an airless system. I have diluted it with water to the
maximum viscosity that will still allow the siphon to operate and get a
decent rate of flow.

I wonder if it would help to dilute it further to get a higher
flow/thicker coat?

What does "not enough fluid" mean? And "dry spray"?

Thanks for more help on this! I hate to resort ot a clearcoat unless I
have to.

If the sprayer isn't strong enough, then you can't spray an alkyd based
paint properly, either.

Dave

MVG wrote:

Wow, I'm a handyman with a compressor and a cup HVLP sprayer, not a
crazy man with such a high-tech system! Perhaps it is impossible to
achieve a glossy sprayed surface with such a paint.

Is there another paint that will work with my sprayer that can achieve
a glossy finish?

Curious. I've sprayed latex enamel with a $200 single stage turbine, similar
to what HF sells for about 80. I just used a large orifice/tip, and included
some latex flow additiive (which really made a difference). In colder temp
I'll add a little water, but only then. Have done this several times over
several years, with different brands. Results were smooth and glossy. Just
repainted and old arbor with similar results. Did anybody ask what size tip
you're using?
GerryG
On 23 Mar 2005 17:13:27 -0800, "MVG" wrote:

Wow, I'm a handyman with a compressor and a cup HVLP sprayer, not a
crazy man with such a high-tech system! Perhaps it is impossible to
achieve a glossy sprayed surface with such a paint.

Is there another paint that will work with my sprayer that can achieve
a glossy finish?

Cutting it with water will know down the gloss. This paint is made to be
used with an airless gun without any reduction..



"MVG" wrote in message
ups.com...
The paint I'm using is Sherwin-Williams "PROCLASSIC waterborne interior
acrylic gloss enamel". The can gives no recommendations on any sprayer
other than an airless system. I have diluted it with water to the
maximum viscosity that will still allow the siphon to operate and get a
decent rate of flow.

I wonder if it would help to dilute it further to get a higher
flow/thicker coat?

What does "not enough fluid" mean? And "dry spray"?

Thanks for more help on this! I hate to resort ot a clearcoat unless I
have to.

"MVG" wrote in message
ups.com...
Wow, I'm a handyman with a compressor and a cup HVLP sprayer, not a
crazy man with such a high-tech system! Perhaps it is impossible to
achieve a glossy sprayed surface with such a paint.

Is there another paint that will work with my sprayer that can achieve
a glossy finish?


I have had very good results spraying acrylic latex with the Critter sprayer.
Amazing quality for only $40.

Dry Spray occurs when the paint droplets are almost dry when they hit the
surface. Often caused by spraying an area too far from the gun. Cheers, JG

MVG wrote:

The paint I'm using is Sherwin-Williams "PROCLASSIC waterborne interior
acrylic gloss enamel". The can gives no recommendations on any sprayer
other than an airless system. I have diluted it with water to the
maximum viscosity that will still allow the siphon to operate and get a
decent rate of flow.

I wonder if it would help to dilute it further to get a higher
flow/thicker coat?

What does "not enough fluid" mean? And "dry spray"?

Thanks for more help on this! I hate to resort ot a clearcoat unless I
have to.

On 23 Mar 2005 15:54:41 -0800, the inscrutable "MVG"
spake:

The paint I'm using is Sherwin-Williams "PROCLASSIC waterborne interior
acrylic gloss enamel". The can gives no recommendations on any sprayer
other than an airless system. I have diluted it with water to the
maximum viscosity that will still allow the siphon to operate and get a
decent rate of flow.

What does S-W say about thinners? Call the local dealer and ask.


I wonder if it would help to dilute it further to get a higher
flow/thicker coat?

Have you tried Floetrol?


What does "not enough fluid" mean? And "dry spray"?

Mask something off, spray it with a can, and let it dry. Now touch the
masking paper. Feel the dry, gritty surface? That's dry spray. It
happens worse when you spray at an angle.


Thanks for more help on this! I hate to resort ot a clearcoat unless I
have to.

Check your library for Andy Charron's books "Water Based Finishes" and
"Spray Finishing". They'll clear up a lot of questions and give you
the terminology you need to ask better questions.

--
Put some color in your cheeks: Garden Naked!
------
www.diversify.com Colorful Website Development

Very informative... thanks!

The diluted paint when spread with a brush is still shiny. I think the
trouble is in fact the paint being dried out in midair as it strikes
the surface giving it a sandpapery texture which diffuses light, spoils
the gloss. I'll try spraying with lower pressure and closer to the
work, and perhaps a top water-based urethane finish. And I will check
out that book.

On 24 Mar 2005 14:34:33 -0800, the inscrutable "MVG"
spake:

Very informative... thanks!

I -think- you're talkking to me, but you don't quote so I don't know.


The diluted paint when spread with a brush is still shiny. I think the
trouble is in fact the paint being dried out in midair as it strikes
the surface giving it a sandpapery texture which diffuses light, spoils
the gloss. I'll try spraying with lower pressure and closer to the
work, and perhaps a top water-based urethane finish.

Good on the former, nix on the latter. AFAIC, poly is unnecessary in
90% of applications and is far too often misapplied, resulting in an
even sh*ttier looking finish.

But ask Sherman-Williams BEFORE you do anything else. Take a sample to
their paint store if you can and verify dry spray, which is what it
sounds like. Verify that your needle is the right size for latex
paint. If it's too small, you'll need more pressure to get it to spray
and end up with dry spray. hint

BTW, I'm by no means an expert on spraying, though I watched a lot of
it for 6 years while wrenching at a body shop. (The painter had the
fridge in his area so I was over there a lot. I'm just learning the
physical art of spraying myself.


And I will check out that book.

Look for both of his books.


================================================== ======
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================

But ask Sherman-Williams BEFORE you do anything else. Take a sample
to
their paint store if you can and verify dry spray, which is what it
sounds like. Verify that your needle is the right size for latex
paint. If it's too small, you'll need more pressure to get it to
spray
and end up with dry spray. hint

I do not see a way to alter the needle on my particular siphon-fed cup
HVLP sprayer. I was at the Home Depot and saw their high pressure
airless sprayers. I would be willing to shell out the $400-$500 if I
knew it would do the job for me, but I am not sure. And from the looks
of the plumbing, the 1 qt. can I have would just about be enough to
prime it and that's it.

Good idea showing Sherwin-Williams, hopefully manned by someone who
knows something.

Mitch

On 24 Mar 2005 17:28:45 -0800, the inscrutable "MVG"
spake:

But ask Sherman-Williams BEFORE you do anything else. Take a sample
to
their paint store if you can and verify dry spray, which is what it
sounds like. Verify that your needle is the right size for latex
paint. If it's too small, you'll need more pressure to get it to
spray
and end up with dry spray. hint

I do not see a way to alter the needle on my particular siphon-fed cup
HVLP sprayer.

Replace the needle and seat with a pair designed for that flow rate.
Ask S-W for the proper set size. Fuji uses a 1.4mm set for spraying
latex. Here's their Spraying Tips page. Download the manuals and see
if there are more tips. http://www.fujispray.com/technical.htm
They mention the use of Floetrol, too.


I was at the Home Depot and saw their high pressure
airless sprayers. I would be willing to shell out the $400-$500 if I
knew it would do the job for me, but I am not sure. And from the looks
of the plumbing, the 1 qt. can I have would just about be enough to
prime it and that's it.

No, I doubt you'd like the result of using a house sprayer for inside
work.


Good idea showing Sherwin-Williams, hopefully manned by someone who
knows something.

And if you don't like the explanation given by that guy, ask for
another opinion. To make it easier, ask for multiple opinions when
you walk in. Professional painters frequent the big paint stores.
I asked a few before choosing the paint I used inside the house.


================================================== ======
TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.
http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications
==========================

Jeff Jewitt colors WB products and may have something you can use.
www.homesteadfinishing.com visit a forum and describe what you're
after. Opaque or transparent?

On 24 Mar 2005 14:34:33 -0800, "MVG" wrote:

Very informative... thanks!

The diluted paint when spread with a brush is still shiny. I think the
trouble is in fact the paint being dried out in midair as it strikes
the surface giving it a sandpapery texture which diffuses light, spoils
the gloss. I'll try spraying with lower pressure and closer to the
work, and perhaps a top water-based urethane finish. And I will check
out that book.