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#1
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110 vs 220 Radial arm saw
Ok, I have an old craftsman 10" RAS that I inherited from my father. I
have just finally installed it on my new workbench, in my new workshop that was part of a garage overhaul. Went to plug it in and behold I couldn't because it was wired for 220. All my plugs are for 110. How do I convert it back to 110 or should I wire the plug to 220. For either case how do I do it. I can do the wiring and etc, if someone just tells me how. thanks. Randy |
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On 13 Feb 2005 14:50:53 -0800, "
wrote: Ok, I have an old craftsman 10" RAS that I inherited from my father. I have just finally installed it on my new workbench, in my new workshop that was part of a garage overhaul. Went to plug it in and behold I couldn't because it was wired for 220. All my plugs are for 110. How do I convert it back to 110 or should I wire the plug to 220. For either case how do I do it. I can do the wiring and etc, if someone just tells me how. thanks. Randy there should be a wireing diagram on the inside cover on the side of the motor. [ where the curley wire goes in! lol ] i dont remember the how or why of it but you will only be changing a couple of the conections. IMHO you would be better off running a 22o circuit in the garage if that is possible. i know mine seems to run better on 220 than itdid on 110. skeez |
#3
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The saw probably needs it own circuit anyhow. Do you happen to have a 120v
20a circuit that isn't otherwise used? If so, then you can change the saw to 120v and be good to go. There is probably a wiring diagram on or in the motor. If not, then you should add a new circuit. Assuming you have space in your breaker box, it would make more sense and be just as easy to add a 240v circuit. (240v requires two breakers) And while it is very easy to do (run the cable, put a breaker in, attach the cable to the breaker, attach the other end to your new outlet) if you have to ask how to do it, you probably should have someone who doesn't have to ask do it. You can do 90% of the work by running the cable from where the outlet will be to the breaker box. |
#4
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Hi Guys, Mine came wired for 110 and I could not rip a 2 inch plank without
the thermal switch on top cutting off. I wired it to 220 and the diagrams are on the cover and never had a problem after that. Eric "skeezics" wrote in message ... On 13 Feb 2005 14:50:53 -0800, " wrote: Ok, I have an old craftsman 10" RAS that I inherited from my father. I have just finally installed it on my new workbench, in my new workshop that was part of a garage overhaul. Went to plug it in and behold I couldn't because it was wired for 220. All my plugs are for 110. How do I convert it back to 110 or should I wire the plug to 220. For either case how do I do it. I can do the wiring and etc, if someone just tells me how. thanks. Randy there should be a wireing diagram on the inside cover on the side of the motor. [ where the curley wire goes in! lol ] i dont remember the how or why of it but you will only be changing a couple of the conections. IMHO you would be better off running a 22o circuit in the garage if that is possible. i know mine seems to run better on 220 than itdid on 110. skeez |
#5
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Personally I would wire the shop for 220v. Lots of good tools require
220v, like decent welders, air compressors, hiher end woodworking tools. If you do it your self apply for an electrical permit at you local city goverment, and do it right. Or hire an electrician to do it. What ever the case don't get hurt or burn your house down. Choose the appropriate wire and breaker for the current you need. |
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I did have the electrician put in a dedicated 20 amp service for the
RAS, a dedicated 20 am circuit for the dust collector and alternating plugs on different 20 amp circuits. just didn't know if the 220 would be better. thanks for the info |
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wrote in message oups.com... I did have the electrician put in a dedicated 20 amp service for the RAS, a dedicated 20 am circuit for the dust collector and alternating plugs on different 20 amp circuits. just didn't know if the 220 would be better. thanks for the info Assuming you can figure out how to change the RAS to 120v, your dedicated circuit will be fine. If you can't, then changing the circuit to 240v is trivial; the hard part is running the cable and that is already done. Good Luck |
#9
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If you can't, then changing the circuit to 240v is trivial; the hard
part is running the cable and that is already done. I am curious don't you need thicker insulation at the higher voltage and therefore cable rated for 220V and the correct amperage?. Also what is the amperage rating of your saw? What ever the case you should talk to your electrical inspector or licensed electrician, not take newsgroup advice on this,which is worth what you paid for it. |
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wrote in message oups.com... If you can't, then changing the circuit to 240v is trivial; the hard part is running the cable and that is already done. I am curious don't you need thicker insulation at the higher voltage and therefore cable rated for 220V and the correct amperage?. Also what is the amperage rating of your saw? I hope you are kidding. You only get 120v in your house. 240v uses two hots, 120v uses only one hot and a grounding conductor; so there is 120v on all the wires regardless of whether it is 240v or 120v. Besides, romex is generally rated to 600v. In fact 240v is less demanding because the current is half that of 120v; he could probably use #14 for his saw on 240v when 120v requires #12.. What ever the case you should talk to your electrical inspector or licensed electrician, not take newsgroup advice on this,which is worth what you paid for it. I generally find the advice here to be very valuable; well perhaps not generally, but often. |
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#13
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In article , "toller" wrote:
wrote in message roups.com... If you can't, then changing the circuit to 240v is trivial; the hard part is running the cable and that is already done. I am curious don't you need thicker insulation at the higher voltage and therefore cable rated for 220V and the correct amperage?. Also what is the amperage rating of your saw? I hope you are kidding. You only get 120v in your house. Ummmmm, no, not unless the house is really really really old and the electrical service was never upgraded. 240v uses two hots, Yep -- both of which are present in approximately 99.9999999% of the homes in America. 120v uses only one hot and a grounding conductor; so there is 120v on all the wires regardless of whether it is 240v or 120v. 120V potential to *ground*, yes, but in a 240V circuit there is a 240V potential between the two ungrounded conductors. Besides, romex is generally rated to 600v. In fact 240v is less demanding because the current is half that of 120v; he could probably use #14 for his saw on 240v when 120v requires #12.. Correct. -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time? |
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 03:41:16 GMT, "toller" wrote:
wrote in message roups.com... I did have the electrician put in a dedicated 20 amp service for the RAS, a dedicated 20 am circuit for the dust collector and alternating plugs on different 20 amp circuits. just didn't know if the 220 would be better. thanks for the info Assuming you can figure out how to change the RAS to 120v, your dedicated circuit will be fine. I'd still prefer to run on 240, just because there is less drop with distance. We don't think about it a lot, but there is a lot of distance in a normal wiring run. In my garashop, which is 24' wide with a 10' ceiling, the panel is on the opposite side from my WW tools, so I have a wire that runs up from the panel, across the ceiling and down to an outlet. I have four 240V outlets on that run (I only use one tool at a time, and don't like having to unplug and re-plug) and the run extends more than 15' down the wall. All told I have over 50' of wire just to get to the farthest receptacle. For a 20A circuit #12 wire will handle up to 70 feet - but don't forget to add in the cord to your tool. Only my TS is more than a couple feet from the wall, and it has a 20' cord on it. Just to be on the safe side I ran #10 wire in the wall and don't ever anticipate any voltage drop problems. I am also adding a dedicated circuit for the dust collector (when I ever get one) and maybe another for a stationary compressor if I ever decide I want to be able to spray finishes. It is pretty easy to run additional circuits now while the walls are still just studs, so I'm going well overboard, but I think it will be worth it. Tim Douglass http://www.DouglassClan.com |
#16
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"Tim Douglass" wrote in message ... For a 20A circuit #12 wire will handle up to 70 feet - but don't forget to add in the cord to your tool. Only my TS is more than a couple feet from the wall, and it has a 20' cord on it. Just to be on the safe side I ran #10 wire in the wall and don't ever anticipate any voltage drop problems. Where did you get the information that a 20A 12ga circuit is only good for around 70 feet Tim? I know that I have measured voltage at equipment at the end of my runs and that's a lot more than 70 feet and seen no voltage drop. I'm not at all sure the 70 foot thing is accurate. -- -Mike- |
#17
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"Mike Marlow" wrote in message ... "Tim Douglass" wrote in message ... For a 20A circuit #12 wire will handle up to 70 feet - but don't forget to add in the cord to your tool. Only my TS is more than a couple feet from the wall, and it has a 20' cord on it. Just to be on the safe side I ran #10 wire in the wall and don't ever anticipate any voltage drop problems. Where did you get the information that a 20A 12ga circuit is only good for around 70 feet Tim? I know that I have measured voltage at equipment at the end of my runs and that's a lot more than 70 feet and seen no voltage drop. I'm not at all sure the 70 foot thing is accurate. -- http://www.electrician.com/vd_calculator.html You don't want more than 3% voltage drop. So the 70 foot thing is not accurate. |
#18
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In article .com,
" wrote: I did have the electrician put in a dedicated 20 amp service for the RAS, a dedicated 20 am circuit for the dust collector and alternating plugs on different 20 amp circuits. just didn't know if the 220 would be better. thanks for the info I have a Sears RAS which I converted over to 220. Fairly simple to do. Cut off the old plug, switch over the motor, put on new plug. Follow that order to prevent tragic mistakes. From the standpoint of current draw, at 110V. the saw could pop a 15A breaker when heavily loaded, or when starting on a heavily loaded circuit. Even worse if the lights are on that circuit. @ 220V the RAS uses about 1/3 of the available current on a 20A circuit. In theory, it will start a _little_ more crisply due to the somewhat lower line voltage drop. Mine comes up to speed NOW, not later. I consider the greatest advantage is the removal of a large tool from the available 110V circuits. -- Dana Miller |
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#20
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Mike Marlow wrote:
"Tim Douglass" wrote in message ... For a 20A circuit #12 wire will handle up to 70 feet - but don't forget to add in the cord to your tool. Only my TS is more than a couple feet from the wall, and it has a 20' cord on it. Just to be on the safe side I ran #10 wire in the wall and don't ever anticipate any voltage drop problems. Where did you get the information that a 20A 12ga circuit is only good for around 70 feet Tim? I know that I have measured voltage at equipment at the end of my runs and that's a lot more than 70 feet and seen no voltage drop. I'm not at all sure the 70 foot thing is accurate. NEC - National Electrical Code charts for just this thing. I only have an old one but that's what it says for a 20amp, 240 volt single phase circuit. FWIW, checking the voltage without a load in place won't tell you squat. It has to be under load. As an example that same #12 wire is good for 280' with a load of 5 amps, and a qualified (depending on type of insulation, conduit or cable, etc) 36' run at 40 amps. Remember too that Tim was, I believe, referring to a 240 volt circuit. With a 120 volt circuit #12 is good only for a run of 35'. Bob - Not an electrician but I do a much better imitation of one than Tim Allen!g |
#21
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"Unquestionably Confused" wrote in message m... NEC - National Electrical Code charts for just this thing. I only have an old one but that's what it says for a 20amp, 240 volt single phase circuit. FWIW, checking the voltage without a load in place won't tell you squat. It has to be under load. As an example that same #12 wire is good for 280' with a load of 5 amps, and a qualified (depending on type of insulation, conduit or cable, etc) 36' run at 40 amps. #12 wire is not rated to carry 40A. #10 is not even rated to 40A. What are we up to - #8? Man - that'd be one hefty cord. "Sure hon, you can help - just coil up the power cord for the table saw while I sweep up, will ya?"... Remember too that Tim was, I believe, referring to a 240 volt circuit. With a 120 volt circuit #12 is good only for a run of 35'. You have to be reading something wrong in the code book. If this was true, there is not a house in America that is wired to code. Think of how many of your circuits contain more than 35' of #12 wire. I'd look at it myself but I don't have my code book (also an older edition) available right now. Watch those current ratings. -- -Mike- |
#22
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Mike Marlow wrote:
"Unquestionably Confused" wrote in message m... NEC - National Electrical Code charts for just this thing. I only have an old one but that's what it says for a 20amp, 240 volt single phase circuit. FWIW, checking the voltage without a load in place won't tell you squat. It has to be under load. As an example that same #12 wire is good for 280' with a load of 5 amps, and a qualified (depending on type of insulation, conduit or cable, etc) 36' run at 40 amps. #12 wire is not rated to carry 40A. #10 is not even rated to 40A. What are we up to - #8? Man - that'd be one hefty cord. "Sure hon, you can help - just coil up the power cord for the table saw while I sweep up, will ya?"... Again, my previous post was based on information from the 1978 Code. Doubt the laws of physics have changed all that much but... Here's relatively current (no pun intended) information on ampacity from the NEC Code Table 310.17. It appears that #12, depending on type of wiring IS rated to up to 40 amps and #10 as high as 55 amps depending on specific factors. http://www.houwire.com/catalog/techn...icle310_17.asp NEC Table 310.16, again dealing with ampacity, allows up to 30 amp and 40 amp for #12 and #10, respectively. http://www.houwire.com/catalog/techn...icle310_16.asp Remember too that Tim was, I believe, referring to a 240 volt circuit. With a 120 volt circuit #12 is good only for a run of 35'. Remember we're talking a 20 amp LOAD on a 120 v circuit and discussing voltage drop. Again, it may not be a 3% drop as someone else mentioned when they posted the link to the calculator, but neither the properties of copper nor the laws of physics have changed since 1978 AFAIK. You have to be reading something wrong in the code book. If this was true, there is not a house in America that is wired to code. Think of how many of your circuits contain more than 35' of #12 wire. I'd look at it myself but I don't have my code book (also an older edition) available right now. Watch those current ratings. Amen. In a shop setting particularly, bigger is better. You'll never have a problem running most power tools on dedicated, 240v circuit fed with #12 or #10 but you may well have a problem with the #12 at 120 v and that table saw you lust after. |
#23
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:43:06 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote: "Tim Douglass" wrote in message .. . For a 20A circuit #12 wire will handle up to 70 feet - but don't forget to add in the cord to your tool. Only my TS is more than a couple feet from the wall, and it has a 20' cord on it. Just to be on the safe side I ran #10 wire in the wall and don't ever anticipate any voltage drop problems. Where did you get the information that a 20A 12ga circuit is only good for around 70 feet Tim? I know that I have measured voltage at equipment at the end of my runs and that's a lot more than 70 feet and seen no voltage drop. I'm not at all sure the 70 foot thing is accurate. 1999 National Electrical Code. The numbers are for 2% or less drop at the rated load. We seldom actually load circuits anywhere near their rated load, but it doesn't hurt. According to their ratings most houses are under-wired because of the length of the wire runs. Tim Douglass http://www.DouglassClan.com |
#24
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On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 01:12:43 GMT, "toller" wrote:
http://www.electrician.com/vd_calculator.html You don't want more than 3% voltage drop. So the 70 foot thing is not accurate. A 3% drop should give you a bit over 100 feet. Seventy feet is for a 2% max. drop. The calculator you link to gives 90 feet for 3%. Tim Douglass http://www.DouglassClan.com |
#25
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In article , Unquestionably Confused wrote:
Here's relatively current (no pun intended) information on ampacity from the NEC Code Table 310.17. It appears that #12, depending on type of wiring IS rated to up to 40 amps and #10 as high as 55 amps depending on specific factors. http://www.houwire.com/catalog/techn...icle310_17.asp NEC Table 310.16, again dealing with ampacity, allows up to 30 amp and 40 amp for #12 and #10, respectively. http://www.houwire.com/catalog/techn...icle310_16.asp You apparently missed the footnote at the bottom of each of those tables: "* Small Condutors. Unless specifically permitted in 240.4(E) through (G), the overcurrent protection shall not exceed 15 amperes for 14 AWG, 20 amperes for 12 AWG, and 30 amperes for 10 AWG copper; or 15 amperes for 12 AWG and 25 amperes for 10 AWG aluminum and copper-clad aluminum after any correction factors for ambient temperature and number of conductors have been applied." -- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com) Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time? |
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