On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 06:52:00 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss
wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:


: Sorry, just hit a sore spot with me, I live in an area near subdivisions
: where people think that a narrow, 2 lane road with very narrow shoulders is
: a great place to go riding. This road also has blind curves where one
: coming around a corner could potentially hit a bicyclist travelling 25 MPH
: on a 40 MPH road in many cases, the bicyclists don't use the shoulder since
: the shoulder is barely there. The answer is *not* to penalize the people
: using the road for its *really* intended purpose by making the speed limit
: slower, it is hoping that somehow these recreational riders would gain a
: bit of wisdom and courtesy and realize that a) they are endangering
: themselves, and b) through their actions they are inconveniencing others,
: taking away time from those people who might also like to get home or get
: their business done so that they also can enjoy some recreational
: activities.



What vehicle do you drive?

-Andy Barss


Unless it's a motorcycle, what difference does that make?



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:22:24 GMT, Jim Behning
wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:42:02 -0600, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 10:42:55 +0000, "Luigi Zanasi"
wrote:

.... snip
I
did wimp out this winter despite having studded tires on my bike. Don't
trust the drivers.

Well, since the roads were built for automobile traffic ....

Actually, most states have laws on the books that state that bicycles are
"intended users" of the road system.

todd

Yes, I know those laws are on the books. Doesn't change the fact that
bicycles travel 10 to 20 mph below normal traffic speed, are at an extreme
disadvantage, particularly on blind curves and are always going to be on
the losing side of any encounter with a car.

Sorry, just hit a sore spot with me, I live in an area near subdivisions
where people think that a narrow, 2 lane road with very narrow shoulders is
a great place to go riding. This road also has blind curves where one
coming around a corner could potentially hit a bicyclist travelling 25 MPH
on a 40 MPH road in many cases, the bicyclists don't use the shoulder since
the shoulder is barely there. The answer is *not* to penalize the people
using the road for its *really* intended purpose by making the speed limit
slower, it is hoping that somehow these recreational riders would gain a
bit of wisdom and courtesy and realize that a) they are endangering
themselves, and b) through their actions they are inconveniencing others,
taking away time from those people who might also like to get home or get
their business done so that they also can enjoy some recreational
activities.

Where I live in Georgia I have to deal with tractors going down the
road. They sometimes go slower than the cyclists. I deal with cow crap
from cow hauling trailers. There used to be farming where you lived
20-30 years ago pre yuppy scum days.


I live in the desert, wasn't much farming where I live, it was all desert
ranchland or wasteland. Try again.


Is it possible that your driving of your car is taking away from the
rights of those who might want to enjoy their recreational acticvities
but are intimidated by you driving 50 in a 40 zone?

What about my driving 45 in a 45 zone? While they are doing, to be
generous, 20.



Are the rights of
an automobile driver or drivers greater than that of the other
taxpayers who may not be in a car?

Why were the roads built? What was the intended purpose? Not what some
activists got passed into law later, but the real, intended reason for
building paved two lane roads?

Or, by your logic, I should be perfectly justified riding a 4 wheeler
down that same road. After all, I'm a taxpayer who is using that road I
helped build. Guess what, anybody doing that gets ticketed -- they have to
ride those vehicles in approved areas.

Not all roads are built with
automobile fuel tax dollars. Riding where you live stinks. About the
only safe time to ride is Sunday mornings but that is quite dangerous
with the Baptists hellbent on getting to church to talk about love as
they run folks off the road. If you can dodge the Baptists or
Presbyterians or Methodists or Lutherans you can have an ok Sunday
morning ride. The Seventh Day Adventists are not much of an issue.


That's funny, seems there are equal numbers of bicyclists out both
Saturdays and Sundays.

Bicyclists are not required to ride on the shoulder. State law. Most
Georgia roads don't have shoulders as an option. Have you lobbied your
state and local representatives for shoulders on the road without
wakeup cuts so that you can fly home without runners and cyclists in
your way?

Wouldn't do any good, the more developed areas nearby have bike lanes,
bicyclists don't use any part of them other than the 3 inches closest to
the automobile lane.

Don't forget to lobby for sidewalks which allow kids a safe
way to get around as well as old folks out for strolls trying to
recover from years of driving cars.

Waiting a minute or a few minutes to get around a tractor or cyclists
or old folks driving slow only kills someone if they pass stupidly.

.. a tractor or a car with old folks are people out there using the road
as intended -- the one is using it for livelihood, the other to get from
place to place, and time has caught up with them vis a vis reaction times
or just the way they always used to live. It may be an inconvenience, but
it's unavoidable, they aren't out there deliberately inconveniencing
others.


you got 1440 minutes in the day. 2 minutes does not have to ruin your
day.

... and that illustrates my point regarding courtesy perfectly. That 2
minutes is *not* *your* two minutes to take away from me or any other
person. Your two minutes, plus the half dozen to a dozen other yuppies out
there in their oh-so-manly lycra-spandex bike suits each taking their two
minutes starts adding up to a pretty decent chunk of time. Doesn't matter
much though whether it's 30 seconds or two minutes, if you are needlessly
inconveniencing someone else, it's still discourteous. As I mentioned
above, other recreational riders have to pursue their fun in suitable
places, why is this situation different, just because a few activists were
able to convince some legislators?


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 07:12:45 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Silvan" wrote in message
...

Anyway, I hate escalators. They're too slow.

Sometimes they are over loaded. LOL

I am entertained by the moving sidewalks at the many of the air ports.
Trying to keep up with the people riding them will give you a work out.



I really like the moving sidewalks. I've always been a fast walker, get
walking on one of those things and you can flat-out fly down the concourse
:-)

Most airports I've been in have a "walk left, stand right" policy that
most people are pretty good at following.






+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:20:56 -0700, the inscrutable Mark & Juanita
spake:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 07:12:45 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Silvan" wrote in message
...

Anyway, I hate escalators. They're too slow.

Sometimes they are over loaded. LOL

I am entertained by the moving sidewalks at the many of the air ports.
Trying to keep up with the people riding them will give you a work out.

I really like the moving sidewalks. I've always been a fast walker, get
walking on one of those things and you can flat-out fly down the concourse
:-)

Yeah, those are fun and can get up to 12mph. I walk fast, too, and get
half my exercise that way. I walked while my parents rode a cart and
we arrived, nearly half a mile later (LAX), at about the same time.

I've found that loud whistling moves people quicker than the repeated
EXCUSE MEs and COMIN' THRUs.


--
STOP LIVING LIKE VEAL
-----------------------
http://diversify.com Veal-free Websites

You live in the desert where there are many blind turns and lots of
bicyclists out on Saturday and Sunday mornings? The few deserts I have
been to are sort of deserted and the roads are pretty straight unless
going through some canyons. Since it is the desert the population
appeared to be about a house every 20-30 miles. How much traffic can
you encounter in your desert?

You feel that you never cause inconvenience to anyone. If I walk up to
the checkout counter at the grocery store and you are in front of me,
I feel you should move out of my way because I am going to have to
waste 5 minutes waiting for the checkout person to scan your Oreos,
Lays, Budweiser and other food. If people are using the roads for
their legal use then you don't have a lot of room to fuss. Heck I bet
you waste at least 5 minutes a day listening to your wife complain.
How often are you allowed to tell her to shut up because she is
wasting your precious time?

You find it embarassing to see a person wearing clothing appropriate
to the activity. There is nothing wrong with dressing like the Amish.
Nothing wrong with wearing colorful clothing either. Do you also look
down on the olympic skier or swimmer because they are not embarrased
about their body and are wearing clothes to optimize their performance
and comfort? That seems about as silly as someone saying you are a
fool for wearing jeans and a sweatshirt while working in the shop
because those splinters could get you. You should be wearing leather
or kevlar pants and jacket to protect you from kickback, stray chisel,
splinters. Wearing anything else shows your ignorance. ;-)

Roads were built for horse and buggy traffic. They were paved along
the way. Maybe you need to move up to Indiana, Ohio or Pennsylvania
where you have the Amish on the road with their buggies trotting at 20
miles an hour and pooping to boot. Then you can fuss about not being
able to pass. The interstates were built for emergency wartime landing
strips for air defense planes with the original specs for so many
miles of straight sections so large planes can land. I bet a lot of
interstates cannot accomodate those fighter planes now. ANother reason
was of interstate traffic which they do a pretty good job of. Heck in
some less populated areas of the country they even allow cyclists on
the interstates. I bet that wigs you out when you are cruising through
your desert on the interstate.

In the USA we subsidize everything. I paid almost $20,000 in easy to
trace taxes. That does not includes sales taxes. What do I get? Well I
get subsidized fuel for my vehicles, I get subsidized groceries, I get
subsidized roads, (I don't use toll roads very often), I have clean
water, I get subsidized air travel, I get subsidized healthcare for
my "less fortunate" neighbors. I guess you can complain about anything
but it is nothing but easy street here in the USA. If you really want
to see life and want a reason to complain go someplace where they
wonder if the evil dictator is going to test his poison gas on your
town or if you sister is going to be raped and tortured. I try to
remember that I have a house and a car and groceries. I have a good
life. I can accomodate some minor inconveniences. I just wonder why
others think that a few minutes here and there is so horrid.



Mark & Juanita wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:22:24 GMT, Jim Behning
wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:42:02 -0600, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 10:42:55 +0000, "Luigi Zanasi"
wrote:

... snip
I
did wimp out this winter despite having studded tires on my bike. Don't
trust the drivers.

Well, since the roads were built for automobile traffic ....

Actually, most states have laws on the books that state that bicycles are
"intended users" of the road system.

todd

Yes, I know those laws are on the books. Doesn't change the fact that
bicycles travel 10 to 20 mph below normal traffic speed, are at an extreme
disadvantage, particularly on blind curves and are always going to be on
the losing side of any encounter with a car.

Sorry, just hit a sore spot with me, I live in an area near subdivisions
where people think that a narrow, 2 lane road with very narrow shoulders is
a great place to go riding. This road also has blind curves where one
coming around a corner could potentially hit a bicyclist travelling 25 MPH
on a 40 MPH road in many cases, the bicyclists don't use the shoulder since
the shoulder is barely there. The answer is *not* to penalize the people
using the road for its *really* intended purpose by making the speed limit
slower, it is hoping that somehow these recreational riders would gain a
bit of wisdom and courtesy and realize that a) they are endangering
themselves, and b) through their actions they are inconveniencing others,
taking away time from those people who might also like to get home or get
their business done so that they also can enjoy some recreational
activities.

Where I live in Georgia I have to deal with tractors going down the
road. They sometimes go slower than the cyclists. I deal with cow crap
from cow hauling trailers. There used to be farming where you lived
20-30 years ago pre yuppy scum days.


I live in the desert, wasn't much farming where I live, it was all desert
ranchland or wasteland. Try again.


Is it possible that your driving of your car is taking away from the
rights of those who might want to enjoy their recreational acticvities
but are intimidated by you driving 50 in a 40 zone?

What about my driving 45 in a 45 zone? While they are doing, to be
generous, 20.



Are the rights of
an automobile driver or drivers greater than that of the other
taxpayers who may not be in a car?

Why were the roads built? What was the intended purpose? Not what some
activists got passed into law later, but the real, intended reason for
building paved two lane roads?

Or, by your logic, I should be perfectly justified riding a 4 wheeler
down that same road. After all, I'm a taxpayer who is using that road I
helped build. Guess what, anybody doing that gets ticketed -- they have to
ride those vehicles in approved areas.

Not all roads are built with
automobile fuel tax dollars. Riding where you live stinks. About the
only safe time to ride is Sunday mornings but that is quite dangerous
with the Baptists hellbent on getting to church to talk about love as
they run folks off the road. If you can dodge the Baptists or
Presbyterians or Methodists or Lutherans you can have an ok Sunday
morning ride. The Seventh Day Adventists are not much of an issue.


That's funny, seems there are equal numbers of bicyclists out both
Saturdays and Sundays.

Bicyclists are not required to ride on the shoulder. State law. Most
Georgia roads don't have shoulders as an option. Have you lobbied your
state and local representatives for shoulders on the road without
wakeup cuts so that you can fly home without runners and cyclists in
your way?

Wouldn't do any good, the more developed areas nearby have bike lanes,
bicyclists don't use any part of them other than the 3 inches closest to
the automobile lane.

Don't forget to lobby for sidewalks which allow kids a safe
way to get around as well as old folks out for strolls trying to
recover from years of driving cars.

Waiting a minute or a few minutes to get around a tractor or cyclists
or old folks driving slow only kills someone if they pass stupidly.

.. a tractor or a car with old folks are people out there using the road
as intended -- the one is using it for livelihood, the other to get from
place to place, and time has caught up with them vis a vis reaction times
or just the way they always used to live. It may be an inconvenience, but
it's unavoidable, they aren't out there deliberately inconveniencing
others.


you got 1440 minutes in the day. 2 minutes does not have to ruin your
day.

... and that illustrates my point regarding courtesy perfectly. That 2
minutes is *not* *your* two minutes to take away from me or any other
person. Your two minutes, plus the half dozen to a dozen other yuppies out
there in their oh-so-manly lycra-spandex bike suits each taking their two
minutes starts adding up to a pretty decent chunk of time. Doesn't matter
much though whether it's 30 seconds or two minutes, if you are needlessly
inconveniencing someone else, it's still discourteous. As I mentioned
above, other recreational riders have to pursue their fun in suitable
places, why is this situation different, just because a few activists were
able to convince some legislators?


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

... and that illustrates my point regarding courtesy perfectly. That 2
minutes is *not* *your* two minutes to take away from me or any other
person. Your two minutes, plus the half dozen to a dozen other yuppies out
there in their oh-so-manly lycra-spandex bike suits each taking their two
minutes starts adding up to a pretty decent chunk of time. Doesn't matter
much though whether it's 30 seconds or two minutes, if you are needlessly
inconveniencing someone else, it's still discourteous. As I mentioned
above, other recreational riders have to pursue their fun in suitable
places, why is this situation different, just because a few activists were
able to convince some legislators?

but it is ok for other cars to inconvenience you as in traffic? cars and other
motored vehicles cause far more delays then any amount of cyclists well ever do.
plus more deaths more pollution more problems and more dependence on foreign
oil.


--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

Mark & Juanita wrote:

It may be an inconvenience, but
it's unavoidable, they aren't out there deliberately inconveniencing
others.

Are you kidding? G "Deliberately inconveniencing others"?

Few cyclists LIKE riding roads like you describe, but they HAVE TO in
order to get to the more desirable roads. Many road cyclists go 50,60,
75, or more, miles on a good weekend ride. We would LOVE to stay out of
your way, but often have zero choice when connecting one area to another.

Should they load up the car and drive from 5 mile loop to 5 mile loop?
Ride in circles on a running track?


plus the half dozen to a dozen other yuppies out
there in their oh-so-manly lycra-spandex bike suits

Those suits are incredibly comfortable and functional. If you got out
much, you'd see cross country skiers, ice skaters, climbers, and long
distance runners in similar clothing. Even major league baseball,
football, and basketball players are discovering how well this stuff
works. As a 40 year old, 6'1", 230 pound man who also plays hockey,
downhill mountain bikes, uses power tools, lifts weights, etc... I've
never felt less than manly wearing jeans, hockey pants, or spandex bike
shorts.

I guess my manlyness certainly doesn't come from my clothes, as I even
feel manly naked! Besides, some of the women I ride with look
incredible in those shorts. G

FWIW, I frequently use my bikes as genuine transportation. I'm actually
going somewhere else, including my office. I'm often dressed in spandex
on these rides, too, for performance and comfort reasons. Maybe I
should start wearing a sign stating my recreational vs. transportation
intent?

Barry

In article , Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Well, since the roads were built for automobile traffic ....

*Paved* roads were originally built for bicycles since automobiles
didn't need them paved.

Gerry

In article , Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Sorry, just hit a sore spot with me, I live in an area near subdivisions
where people think that a narrow, 2 lane road with very narrow shoulders is
a great place to go riding.

Maybe there are FEW alternative routes for them to get to or from their
homes or their destinations. Could they be insensitive enough to be
actually using bicycles for transportation?

This road also has blind curves where one coming around a corner
could potentially hit a bicyclist travelling 25 MPH on a 40 MPH road
in many cases, the bicyclists don't use the shoulder since the
shoulder is barely there.

They can't be very competent drivers. God help them if there happens to
be a stationary object like a stopped car (fender bender?). Does your
"sore spot" allow pedestrians or are those drivers incapable of slowing
down even momentarily?

The answer is *not* to penalize the people using the road for its
*really* intended purpose by making the speed limit slower

What do you see as its "intended purpose"? Are you saying that
bicyclists were never part of the purpose and that it's OK to
"penalize" them instead?

it is hoping that somehow these [drivers] would gain a
bit of wisdom and courtesy and realize that a) they are endangering
[bicyclists],

By substituting "drivers" and "bicyclists", I'm hoping to show you that
hurtling along in 4000 lbs. of steel and glass should require the
"wisdom and courtesy" you are seeking.

and b) through their actions they are inconveniencing others,
taking away time from those people who might also like to get home or get
their business done so that they also can enjoy some recreational
activities.

You resent "taking away time". What might they lose, twelve seconds per
cyclist? Maybe a whopping twenty seconds? Their dinners will still be
hot. Their TV show (Dr. Phil?) will still be on. They won't be losing
several hours a day from their busy lives, will they?

You need to get some perspective IMNSHO.

Sorry, just hit a sore spot with me

Sorry, I think you have a hard on against bicyclists and are trying to
rationalise your dislike with a weak arguement.

Bicyclists are not all tree-hugging, yoghurt-eating,
Birkenstock-wearing nancy boys or superhuman athletes like Lance
Armstrong, they are everyday brothers, sisters, moms, dads, sons,
daughters... Cut them some slack.

Gerry

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 17:20:47 -0500, "G.E.R.R.Y."
wrote:

*Paved* roads were originally built for bicycles since automobiles
didn't need them paved.

Paved roads were originally built for Romans - at least in my
neighbourhood.

In article , Silvan
wrote:

Except in the 0.01% of places that actually have intelligently
designed bike lanes and whatnot anyway.

The real shame is that where they have actually created intelligently
designed bike lanes, it's not too far behind that some dim bulbs get
together and manage to convince legislators to pass bylaws restricting
cyclists to bike lanes only.

Gerry

In article , Mark & Juanita
wrote:

other yuppies out there in their oh-so-manly lycra-spandex bike suits

How long have you had this fascination?

Gerry

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:13:59 GMT, Jim Behning
wrote:

You live in the desert where there are many blind turns and lots of
bicyclists out on Saturday and Sunday mornings? The few deserts I have
been to are sort of deserted and the roads are pretty straight unless
going through some canyons. Since it is the desert the population
appeared to be about a house every 20-30 miles. How much traffic can
you encounter in your desert?


Yeah, I live on the outskirts of a city that people built in the desert.
They wanted to mine the ores nearby and found a reasonably green area
between the Catalina and Tucson mountains, along a river bed. Rocky hills
plus river bed = winding roads. The city of Tucson is around 800k people
this time of year (snowbirds + college students + gem & mineral show
attendees + permanent residents)


You feel that you never cause inconvenience to anyone. If I walk up to
the checkout counter at the grocery store and you are in front of me,
I feel you should move out of my way because I am going to have to
waste 5 minutes waiting for the checkout person to scan your Oreos,
Lays, Budweiser and other food. If people are using the roads for
their legal use then you don't have a lot of room to fuss. Heck I bet
you waste at least 5 minutes a day listening to your wife complain.
How often are you allowed to tell her to shut up because she is
wasting your precious time?

Obviously the point was wasted on you. You obviously feel that a
conveyance that can at best, travel about half the speed of normal traffic
has every bit as much right to use as much of the road as it wants to
regardless of who it inconveniences.


.... snip
Roads were built for horse and buggy traffic. They were paved along
the way. Maybe you need to move up to Indiana, Ohio or Pennsylvania
where you have the Amish on the road with their buggies trotting at 20
miles an hour and pooping to boot. Then you can fuss about not being
able to pass. The interstates were built for emergency wartime landing
strips for air defense planes with the original specs for so many
miles of straight sections so large planes can land. I bet a lot of
interstates cannot accomodate those fighter planes now. ANother reason
was of interstate traffic which they do a pretty good job of. Heck in
some less populated areas of the country they even allow cyclists on
the interstates. I bet that wigs you out when you are cruising through
your desert on the interstate.


If they are on the shoulder, well away from cars, doesn't bother me a
bit.

In actuality, the inconvenience is only a secondary consideration in this
whole discussion. My main issue is frankly the safety issue. It just
seems totally irrational to me that people, for enjoyment, put themselves
in a position where they are doing half the speed of the prevailing
traffic, put themselves in situations where they may not be seen by that
traffic, and are the ones who are going to lose, and lose bigtime, if they
wind up interacting in a negative way with that traffic. I don't want to be
the person that such an event happens to; the circumstance where one must
make a a split second choice between driving over a slow-moving bicycle 2
feet into the right lane on a curve or swerving left into the oncoming path
of another vehicle and causing a head-on collision --- that bothers me.


At the same time, other folks who have riding hobbies somehow manage to
pack up their vehicles or animals and drive someplace that accomodates
those vehicles in a safe manner.

I've said my peace on this issue.






Mark & Juanita wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:22:24 GMT, Jim Behning
wrote:

Mark & Juanita wrote:

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:42:02 -0600, "Todd Fatheree"
wrote:

"Mark & Juanita" wrote in message
om...
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 10:42:55 +0000, "Luigi Zanasi"
wrote:

... snip
I
.... snip




+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

FWIW, I frequently use my bikes as genuine transportation. I'm actually
going somewhere else, including my office. I'm often dressed in spandex
on these rides, too, for performance and comfort reasons. Maybe I
should start wearing a sign stating my recreational vs. transportation
intent?

my bike is my transportation. I even haul all of my lumber on a trailer. and I
am lucky in that I don't have to travel busy roads (G) but hey thick of all the
tool money you would Dave if you did not drive.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 20:33:17 -0800, Steve Knight
wrote:


FWIW, I frequently use my bikes as genuine transportation. I'm actually
going somewhere else, including my office. I'm often dressed in spandex
on these rides, too, for performance and comfort reasons. Maybe I
should start wearing a sign stating my recreational vs. transportation
intent?

my bike is my transportation. I even haul all of my lumber on a trailer. and I
am lucky in that I don't have to travel busy roads (G) but hey thick of all the
tool money you would Dave if you did not drive.


Steve,

I recognize that for some people a bicycle is their sole
transportation. That's a somewhat different situation. However, I would
hope that people in that situation also recognize that there are routes
that really are not a safe place to ride for that transportation.


+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The absence of accidents does not mean the presence of safety
Army General Richard Cody
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Steve Knight wrote:


None of that around here, so I either walk or drive. I feel that when I'm
walking, I can dodge faster, and more safely. Walking feels comparatively
secure, while riding a bike feels like I've got a target painted on my
back. Oh well, walking is good too. Easier on the knees too. Pedalling
up these hills around here is absolute hell on my knees.

got to learn to gear right and spin so you don't hurt you knee's.

It don't go no lower than the big super spinny pedal 13,000 times per one
revolution of the wheel gear, and that ain't low enough for my knees.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

"Steve Knight"

my bike is my transportation. I even haul all of my lumber on a trailer. and I
am lucky in that I don't have to travel busy roads (G) but hey thick of all the
tool money you would Dave if you did not drive.


Think of the additional money you would have if you had
better transportation.

You know, I'm a little miffed that nobody commiserated with me about walking
my ass off on those stairs, and still having the damn love handles.

On the day she went in for some test thing, I walked the entire perimeter of
the hospital property, in the snow, about 27 times. Must have been five
miles or better. At a really good "heart pumping cardio pace." But still
bupkis. I haven't lost one ounce. Dammit.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Think of the additional money you would have if you had
better transportation.


How is having a car and paying all those huge expenses going to get me more
money?

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:27:55 -0800, Steve Knight
wrote:

How is having a car and paying all those huge expenses going to get me more
money?

Steve, prestige, man, prestige! It's priceless, so the cost is
irrelevant.

I just love being asked "How long 'till you get your license back?" by
the counter clerk when I make a beer or wine run by bicycle. I
explain that the DUI folks ride bikes with the drop bars flipped
downside up. G

I've also been handed business cards for towing companies when riding
to Auto Zone for oil change supplies. I've never seen a car yet that
needed to be towed, but was repairable with 5 quarts of Mobil 1 and an
oil filter!

Barry

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:41:04 GMT, B a r r y
vaguely proposed a
theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


I guess my manlyness certainly doesn't come from my clothes, as I even
feel manly naked! Besides, some of the women I ride with look
incredible in those shorts. G

And tho do _ewyou_ thweety!

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 20:54:26 -0500, the inscrutable Silvan
spake:

You know, I'm a little miffed that nobody commiserated with me about walking
my ass off on those stairs, and still having the damn love handles.

On the day she went in for some test thing, I walked the entire perimeter of
the hospital property, in the snow, about 27 times. Must have been five
miles or better. At a really good "heart pumping cardio pace." But still
bupkis. I haven't lost one ounce. Dammit.

http://isbn.nu/093347816X The Yeast Connection Cookbook: A Guide to
Good Nutrition and Better Health. From $4.

Discusses food allergies and nutrition, and shares healthful recipes
for breads, soups, salads, fish, vegetables, meat, poultry, and
desserts.

by William G. Crook, M. D.; Marjorie Hurt Jones, R. N.
Editions: Paperback (Professional Books, August 1, 1989), revised
edition, cover price $15.95

I dropped 20 lbs the month I was on it and will be doing it again,
RSN. I felt a WHOLE lot better, too.

--
Vidi, Vici, Veni
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:53:13 +0800, OldNick
wrote:


And tho do _ewyou_ thweety!

Yeth, I dooo.

It'h just thoo nice of you to notice!

Barry ;^)

In article , Mark & Juanita
wrote:

one must make a a split second choice between driving over a
slow-moving bicycle 2 feet into the right lane on a curve or swerving
left into the oncoming path of another vehicle and causing a head-on
collision --- that bothers me.

Driving is all about "split-second choices". If you can't handle those
choices, maybe you should get out of that hurtling hunk of steel and
glass BEFORE your incompetence kills someone - maybe even yourself.

I've said my peace on this issue.

I've said my *piece* too.

Gerry

Larry Jaques wrote:

bupkis. I haven't lost one ounce. Dammit.

I dropped 20 lbs the month I was on it and will be doing it again,
RSN. I felt a WHOLE lot better, too.

Yeah but that (interesting stuff) isn't commissserrration dammit. How the
hell do you splee commissserrrattttttionnnnnnnnn anyway? I think I have
too many consonants in it.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

OldNick wrote:

feel manly naked! Besides, some of the women I ride with look
incredible in those shorts. G

And tho do _ewyou_ thweety!

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Although, while we're getting into obnoxious ground on cyclist gear and
stuff, I hate those shorts. Not because they accentuate the negative
(because everything below the love handles looks pretty good) but because I
don't enjoy applying 357,000 psi of spandex pressure to my nuts. Ouch.
Those things HURT.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:34:18 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Although, while we're getting into obnoxious ground on cyclist gear and
stuff, I hate those shorts. Not because they accentuate the negative
(because everything below the love handles looks pretty good) but because I
don't enjoy applying 357,000 psi of spandex pressure to my nuts. Ouch.
Those things HURT.

Try the right size! G Bibs are a bit more comfortable everywhere
else.

You could also try "baggies". These are shorts similar to camping
shorts, with a moisture transferring spandex liner and chamois inside.

Like this: http://store1.yimg.com/I/zootstore_1828_19464299

Baggies aren't all that comfortable on road bikes, but on more upright
and slower moving mountain, hybrid, and comfort bikes, they're great.
On road bikes, they tend to interfere with low, aero positions, make
adding and subtracting layers harder, and flap in the wind.

Barry

Snip

On the general topic though, some of you have probably seen that ad where
the guy goes up to the lost & found desk with two jiggly pink blobby
things. They turn out to be love handles. "Lots of people lose their love
handles taking the stairs instead of the escalator."

Well, I'm here to tell you it ain't so. When SWMBO was in the hospital, I
visited umpty times a day, and I only took the elevator down on the day
they released her. I could almost always walk past the people waiting at
the elevator, another 50-100' or so down the hall, then up four flights of
stairs, then back 50-100' to the elevator, to be walking past as the
baffled people from the ground floor were emerging. "How the hell did you
get up here so fast?"

Snip

Unfortunately, the stress of your wife being in the hospital probably
had a lot to do with that. I've heard more than a few times that
stress makes it a lot harder to lose weight.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam