How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

I realize that everyone's process is different, but I feel certain that
every woodworker has certain waypoints on his or her journey. For
beginners, it may be as simple as a straight cut with a circular saw.
For seasoned veterans, perhaps the hand-cut full blind mitered
dovetail.

For myself, I started in woodworking because I had an original idea for
a coffee table, and was too frugal (i.e., cheap) to pay someone else to
execute my design. Countless hours later, I had one hell of a sturdy
coffee table. There came a tremendous satisfaction in finishing a
project, even if it was nothing but a bunch of strips of plywood. That
was Milestone #1: Completing the First Project.

Another milestone for me was my first decent set of hand-cut dovetails.
It took 6 tries, and they still don't look 'good' but at least I
didn't burn these. Oddly enough, to date I have not used a dovetail
joint in a project I've built.

Some other milestones for me include first (good) M&T joint, first
working jig, first improvement to existing machinery, first commission,
first (good) panel glue-up, and first project SWMBO would allow me to
leave in the house. I may be using the Milestone moniker a bit
loosely, but you get the idea.

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

Way cool post!

Mastering Woodworking is a journey not some destination that we reach. The
standard is some metric that you determine, so set a bar at the level you
are comfortable with.

I've done pieces in my home that I have taken pleasure in burning (years
later.) This is a milestone for me because I've learned with each piece I've
built.

I've done pieces for others (friends only) that I wish I could get back.
This is a milestone because I've learned that others asked me to build
something for them, and many items are being displayed in their homes. Seems
that my standards have gotten higher along the way, forcing me to get
better.

I've built pieces for sale. 2 milestones here, "this guy wants me to make 60
chairs for his new restaurant, and will pay me money for doing it," and
"I've never made a chair." Good outcome for me.

I want to stay focused on new stuff, with this comes new methods, new joints
and best of all, new tools.



Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

It's a good question. I never thought about in terms of discrete milestones
before. It's just been a continuous progression (usually forward, but
sometimes not).

Thinking back I notice that there was a time when I started receiving the
odd compliment, and one friend at least always asks my advice before cutting
anything. I have been pleased about that, but I'm not far enough along to
have people asking me to build very much for them.

My milestones seem to be more about the tools. My electric drill (my first)
doesn't count because it was a gift and I was only using it to drill holes
to hang things on drywall. So my first milestone would have to be the day I
bought my first router, jigsaw, and palm sander. (Three power tools in one
day, a record that has yet to be surpassed!)

My next milestone was my first stationary power tool, the drill press. I
built the rolling base for it using only hand tools.

Then: The tablesaw. Major, major milestone.

My latest: The new 3-1/4HP router. I've stopped being a chicken. I now
buy wood rather than trying to make absolutely everything out of scrap (for
fear I'd just ruin good wood).

There's one milestone I'm looking forward to achieving: The day I finish a
real, full sized piece of furniture that will be good enough to live in my
house under normal use. All the bookshelves I've already done don't count.
They're kind of invisible. The shed? It's full sized, for sure, but while
it's nice, it's just a shed.

I'm just so slow that it's hard to talk about milestones. Maybe
kilomilestones.

- Owen -

First ball-and-claw foot.
Jim Lemon

The funny thing is that my first milestones went completely un-noticed by
me. The first real project I did was to build a book case. I figured it
was rather simple. Oak plywood with some shop bought trim. I used crown
molding and actually got some decent miters (without a miter saw). I built
a jig to route the dados.
I didn't think about what I was doing, or the fact that I shouldn't be able
to do it. I just did it. I am now looking at it across the room from me,
full of books. I just hope I don't fall prey to the fact that I can't do it
because I don't know how or don't have the right tools. Then I will have
passed the milestone of self-destruction.
So here's to you and here's to me... may we have enough milestones to build
a workshop with them and may we never realize that it can't be done.

Rob
Through the golden door our children can walk into tomorrow with the
knowledge that no one can be denied the promise that is America.
~Ronald W. Reagan


wrote in message
oups.com...
How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

I realize that everyone's process is different, but I feel certain that
every woodworker has certain waypoints on his or her journey. For
beginners, it may be as simple as a straight cut with a circular saw.
For seasoned veterans, perhaps the hand-cut full blind mitered
dovetail.

For myself, I started in woodworking because I had an original idea for
a coffee table, and was too frugal (i.e., cheap) to pay someone else to
execute my design. Countless hours later, I had one hell of a sturdy
coffee table. There came a tremendous satisfaction in finishing a
project, even if it was nothing but a bunch of strips of plywood. That
was Milestone #1: Completing the First Project.

Another milestone for me was my first decent set of hand-cut dovetails.
It took 6 tries, and they still don't look 'good' but at least I
didn't burn these. Oddly enough, to date I have not used a dovetail
joint in a project I've built.

Some other milestones for me include first (good) M&T joint, first
working jig, first improvement to existing machinery, first commission,
first (good) panel glue-up, and first project SWMBO would allow me to
leave in the house. I may be using the Milestone moniker a bit
loosely, but you get the idea.

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

wrote in message
oups.com...
How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?


SWMBO says "I like it," instead of "that's interesting" when we show her our
latest effort.

Just this weekend, a friend of SWMBO asks me to make her a copy of a piece
in our dining room (which I made). First commission!

Jeff


So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

I was thinking about that this week end showing my projects to one of my
friend. And suddenly it strucked me : I don't really care about the projects
: it's the fun to have/use tools !

Yes, it's a hobby for me...


a écrit dans le message de news:
...
How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

I realize that everyone's process is different, but I feel certain that
every woodworker has certain waypoints on his or her journey. For
beginners, it may be as simple as a straight cut with a circular saw.
For seasoned veterans, perhaps the hand-cut full blind mitered
dovetail.

For myself, I started in woodworking because I had an original idea for
a coffee table, and was too frugal (i.e., cheap) to pay someone else to
execute my design. Countless hours later, I had one hell of a sturdy
coffee table. There came a tremendous satisfaction in finishing a
project, even if it was nothing but a bunch of strips of plywood. That
was Milestone #1: Completing the First Project.

Another milestone for me was my first decent set of hand-cut dovetails.
It took 6 tries, and they still don't look 'good' but at least I
didn't burn these. Oddly enough, to date I have not used a dovetail
joint in a project I've built.

Some other milestones for me include first (good) M&T joint, first
working jig, first improvement to existing machinery, first commission,
first (good) panel glue-up, and first project SWMBO would allow me to
leave in the house. I may be using the Milestone moniker a bit
loosely, but you get the idea.

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

Today, looking back on my hobby,

The most memorable milestone from my past was getting an expensive set of
bench chisels from Garret Wade which came,of course, in a wooden box. Then
spending 3 to 4 hours after work every night for a week on each chisel to
make the backs flat and mirror finished, and to sharpen them to the best of
my ability with a bevel and micro-bevel. (as I recall the total time was
about 2 or 2 1/2 months to complete the set. In about 6 more years my
memory will have this up to 5 or 6 months for the set.)

After about 14 years of use in hobby work, I still marvel just how sharp
these chisels can get, and how they will shave and pare wood exactly as I
want. I have never needed to mess with the flat back, just the micro-bevel,
and once the primary bevel on a couple of the chisels, as I recall.

It is difficult to explain, but the completion of spending a huge effort on
my hand tools has linked them to me closer than any power tool I have ever
owned. Even though I suspect that over the years I have spent more time
adjusting my Delta Bandsaw than I have spent sharpening that set of chisels.

Phil

wrote in message
oups.com...
How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

I realize that everyone's process is different, but I feel certain that
every woodworker has certain waypoints on his or her journey.

I will have "arrived" when I can build fine furniture that would qualify to
grace the pages of Fine Woodworking. Meantime, I look for progress in most
every piece.

I don't know if milestone is the right term for the steps along the way of a
long journey. Some of my first projects were doll furniture. Making a
chair with all four legs the same length was satisfying. Making a rabbet
and dado and having the parts fit was satisfying. Then it was on to m & t
joints.

I try to do something different in each piece, be it a joint or even a
different way to make the joint. If I can cut it on the tablesaw, maybe the
router will be easier or vice versa. I then use the finished piece to be my
gauge of success. Are all the visible joints perfect? Everything square?
Is it something I'd be proud to show in my living room?

The other question I ask is, "did you enjoy making it?". If it was not fun,
it does not matter how good it looks. I do this as a hobby and for
relaxation.
Ed

I think you have arrived when your projects have saved or earned you more
money than you have spent on tools. :~)

The only milestone that really counted for me was when my wife stopped
bitchin' about my tool purchases and started to ask me projects she
would like to have done. She understood that I wasn't just a tool
collector...

On the other hand, I wish one of my piece will eventually end up in
Fine Woodworking. Also, as a hobbyist we have a tremendous advantage
over people doing woodworking for a living. We can pick the project of
our choice and make it the way we want it. This has nothing to do with
the real trade where you often end up doing what you're told to even
though sometimes it doesn't make any sense...

This is why I don't ever want to take commision work unless I have
enough freedom to do what I want...

Wally

In article .com,
says...
How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

[...]

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet?

How about first large piece not made from someone else's plans?
http://www.milmac.com/Furniture/CherryBuffet.JPG

Doing new things and doing them well. Recently, moved into a new
house, new construction, and SWMBO wants built-ins in the room she uses
for an office. More trim carpentry than furniture, but I brought a
furniture quality to the bookshelves, cabinets and window seat across a
full 16" wall with fluted columns, raised hardwood panels etc. Then
did an 8 piece cornice and 4 piece chair rail to finish it off. I know
where the mistakes are, but everybody who sees it is amazed. I still
want to make that walnut chairside chest, but she's got me hanging
french doors in the foyer now, and wants the same cornice in the foyer,
living room and dining room (along with a built-in corner cabinet in
the dining room. Another 7 months shot and still no chairside chest.
Mutt.

How about first large piece not made from someone else's plans?

That's gotta be a good mark of achievement. Knocking off a large furniture
piece when working from a plan is one thing.

But to build a large piece of furniture, of you own design, speaks volumes
about your knowledge and craftsmanship.

Wow,

Great question, great answers.

How's this for an alternative sort of milestone:

My dad has always had a shop with a table saw. Growing up I simply assumed
that all houses had a shop of some sort. Although I only recognized this in
retrospect, my dad was my inspiration for adopting this hobby.

The bittersweet milestone: Realizing that my I had eclipsed my dad's skills.

-Steve




wrote in message
oups.com...
How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

I realize that everyone's process is different, but I feel certain that
every woodworker has certain waypoints on his or her journey. For
beginners, it may be as simple as a straight cut with a circular saw.
For seasoned veterans, perhaps the hand-cut full blind mitered
dovetail.

For myself, I started in woodworking because I had an original idea for
a coffee table, and was too frugal (i.e., cheap) to pay someone else to
execute my design. Countless hours later, I had one hell of a sturdy
coffee table. There came a tremendous satisfaction in finishing a
project, even if it was nothing but a bunch of strips of plywood. That
was Milestone #1: Completing the First Project.

Another milestone for me was my first decent set of hand-cut dovetails.
It took 6 tries, and they still don't look 'good' but at least I
didn't burn these. Oddly enough, to date I have not used a dovetail
joint in a project I've built.

Some other milestones for me include first (good) M&T joint, first
working jig, first improvement to existing machinery, first commission,
first (good) panel glue-up, and first project SWMBO would allow me to
leave in the house. I may be using the Milestone moniker a bit
loosely, but you get the idea.

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

I don't usually think in terms of milestones, but several
recent one come to mind. A complete set of cabinets and
a desk for SWMBO's office.

Scrapping previously made stuff and building new. I
rebuilt the shop cabinets recently and I'm starting on
other rooms in the house.

Using Shellac. Never had any luck until recently.
I always try to do something new with each new project.
That's what I like about this hobby, trying new things and
slowly growing my skill.

DGA
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:31:29 -0800, phildcrowNOSPAM wrote:

How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

I realize that everyone's process is different, but I feel certain that
every woodworker has certain waypoints on his or her journey. For
beginners, it may be as simple as a straight cut with a circular saw.
For seasoned veterans, perhaps the hand-cut full blind mitered
dovetail.

For myself, I started in woodworking because I had an original idea for
a coffee table, and was too frugal (i.e., cheap) to pay someone else to
execute my design. Countless hours later, I had one hell of a sturdy
coffee table. There came a tremendous satisfaction in finishing a
project, even if it was nothing but a bunch of strips of plywood. That
was Milestone #1: Completing the First Project.

Another milestone for me was my first decent set of hand-cut dovetails.
It took 6 tries, and they still don't look 'good' but at least I
didn't burn these. Oddly enough, to date I have not used a dovetail
joint in a project I've built.

Some other milestones for me include first (good) M&T joint, first
working jig, first improvement to existing machinery, first commission,
first (good) panel glue-up, and first project SWMBO would allow me to
leave in the house. I may be using the Milestone moniker a bit
loosely, but you get the idea.

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

On 30 Jan 2005 20:31:29 -0800, wrote:

How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

Snip

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

I haven't made it to the skilled craftsman measure yet but my major
mileposts we

My son wanting something I made. I made a patio chair from some
2X4s out of a library book project plan.

My daughter wanting a table to fit in an alcove. This was a first
time making a table. It is a hallway/sofa table based upon a shaker
design. A lot of firsts with this one. My daughter's friends
wouldn't believe it was hand made and had to make closer inspections.
That put a grin on my face.

Made some wall shelves that were based upon pictures from a
Ballard catalog. They were listed at $90 and made for about
$15 from molding. The SWMBO has six of them hanging on
the walls; first major approval. Daughter has a couple now
too.

First sale of work to some of my daughter's friends who wanted
what I made for her patio: utility benches, patio chairs and matching
small table. Real money for those; a first.

Oh, and recycling wood from dumpsters at construction sites.
So I haven't spent much on wood, mostly on screws, paint,
sandpaper and such.

I really enjoy the Adirondack chairs I made for myself. Just
sitting in 'em makes me feel good; enjoying the day with
a brew and the shop dog by my side ( oh, meant to say
the SWMBO at my side). ;-)

Thunder

P.S. Project list now includes: book shelf for computer room,
daughter request for cedar chest, headboard for SWMBO,
and another workbench for myself. Ha! Waiting for
the weather to warm up to start again.

A neighbor walked into the open shop last summer - looked at some of the
carving and one of the current projects -- said - "you're wasting your
time in your current career" and left.

I think it was a compliment and a milestone. Either that or...


wrote:
How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

I realize that everyone's process is different, but I feel certain that
every woodworker has certain waypoints on his or her journey. For
beginners, it may be as simple as a straight cut with a circular saw.
For seasoned veterans, perhaps the hand-cut full blind mitered
dovetail.

For myself, I started in woodworking because I had an original idea for
a coffee table, and was too frugal (i.e., cheap) to pay someone else to
execute my design. Countless hours later, I had one hell of a sturdy
coffee table. There came a tremendous satisfaction in finishing a
project, even if it was nothing but a bunch of strips of plywood. That
was Milestone #1: Completing the First Project.

Another milestone for me was my first decent set of hand-cut dovetails.
It took 6 tries, and they still don't look 'good' but at least I
didn't burn these. Oddly enough, to date I have not used a dovetail
joint in a project I've built.

Some other milestones for me include first (good) M&T joint, first
working jig, first improvement to existing machinery, first commission,
first (good) panel glue-up, and first project SWMBO would allow me to
leave in the house. I may be using the Milestone moniker a bit
loosely, but you get the idea.

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

I've been doing some real soul searching on this idea lately myself. Having
been a carpenter for over 15 years, and a wood worker for about 10, I still
cannot decide at what point can a man consider himself a "master carpenter"
or "master craftsman". My SWMBO (bless her) says that I am one, but that I
just won't admit it. She is constantly telling me that I can do everything
Norm can, and, to a point, this is true. Although I'm fully aware my
learning curve is a couple of years behind him. (I wonder how and when he
decided on the title!) Through internet searches, I've really found nothing
to use as a measure to compare my skills to and make a decision as to what
my title should be. Some info exists on the "master craftsman" of
yesteryear, but the whole chain of events leading to a man's masters title
is really not in operation in this country today. Here is my resume in short
order:
When it comes to home building, I've done it all, and learned to do it
well. Whether it be rough framing, or finishing trim. ( I jokingly call
myself a "rough finish carpenter") Remodeling old homes or building new, I
have all the bases covered. Heck, I'm even a certified home inspector.
As far as furniture/cabinet making, I rarely run into an unforeseen
problem. I haven't built everything (yet!) , but I feel I have acquired
enough skills to make quality casework and can run productively.
I have a lathe. Turning wood is another realm of woodworking
altogether. Although I can make good turnings for projects I build,
occasional complications are expected. In this field, I would consider
myself an amateur turner.
More recently, I've began carving. The goal is to be able to carve
cabriole legs and other ornamentation for period furniture. I am
definitely a novice here. My first attempt at the ball and claw foot looked
more like a turkey leg holding a pumpkin, but it's getting better! I think
once I've learned to carve, I will be able to replicate a colonial highboy
without many complications.
This business of having a title wouldn't be of too much importance to me
if I was only a hobbyist woodworker, but I have devoted my life to building
stuff from wood. It's more than just "I'm the best carpenter I know", It's
a serious passion, if not an addiction, and I believe an appropriate title
should accompany. The problem lies in that no formal education exists in
this country (that I know of) in which a "master's degree" could be offered
for carpentry or wood working. Most every other profession I can think of
has a chain of requirements needed to earn a title. The title is then what
sets that person apart in their chosen profession, and in their community.
I'm hesitant to put the word "master craftsman" or something next to my name
simply because I really have no idea what requirements I would need to be
considered as such, and I'm not sure if I'm comfortable just self
proclaiming it. Any thoughts/opinions would be greatly appreciated here!
Thanks, dave


"Rolling Thunder" wrote in message
...
On 30 Jan 2005 20:31:29 -0800, wrote:

How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

Snip

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

I haven't made it to the skilled craftsman measure yet but my major
mileposts we

My son wanting something I made. I made a patio chair from some
2X4s out of a library book project plan.

My daughter wanting a table to fit in an alcove. This was a first
time making a table. It is a hallway/sofa table based upon a shaker
design. A lot of firsts with this one. My daughter's friends
wouldn't believe it was hand made and had to make closer inspections.
That put a grin on my face.

Made some wall shelves that were based upon pictures from a
Ballard catalog. They were listed at $90 and made for about
$15 from molding. The SWMBO has six of them hanging on
the walls; first major approval. Daughter has a couple now
too.

First sale of work to some of my daughter's friends who wanted
what I made for her patio: utility benches, patio chairs and matching
small table. Real money for those; a first.

Oh, and recycling wood from dumpsters at construction sites.
So I haven't spent much on wood, mostly on screws, paint,
sandpaper and such.

I really enjoy the Adirondack chairs I made for myself. Just
sitting in 'em makes me feel good; enjoying the day with
a brew and the shop dog by my side ( oh, meant to say
the SWMBO at my side). ;-)

Thunder

P.S. Project list now includes: book shelf for computer room,
daughter request for cedar chest, headboard for SWMBO,
and another workbench for myself. Ha! Waiting for
the weather to warm up to start again.

On 30 Jan 2005 20:31:29 -0800, wrote:

How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

I realize that everyone's process is different, but I feel certain that
every woodworker has certain waypoints on his or her journey. For
beginners, it may be as simple as a straight cut with a circular saw.
For seasoned veterans, perhaps the hand-cut full blind mitered
dovetail.

For myself, I started in woodworking because I had an original idea for
a coffee table, and was too frugal (i.e., cheap) to pay someone else to
execute my design. Countless hours later, I had one hell of a sturdy
coffee table. There came a tremendous satisfaction in finishing a
project, even if it was nothing but a bunch of strips of plywood. That
was Milestone #1: Completing the First Project.

Another milestone for me was my first decent set of hand-cut dovetails.
It took 6 tries, and they still don't look 'good' but at least I
didn't burn these. Oddly enough, to date I have not used a dovetail
joint in a project I've built.

Some other milestones for me include first (good) M&T joint, first
working jig, first improvement to existing machinery, first commission,
first (good) panel glue-up, and first project SWMBO would allow me to
leave in the house. I may be using the Milestone moniker a bit
loosely, but you get the idea.

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

In my case when SWMBO sees something in a catalog, looks at me and
says 'you can make that'!

Okay, so I've got a long way to go.

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

Looking for a wall cabinet to store my CD's in and finding nothing I
liked so I designed and built my own. It was also my first use of a
compressor to spray on clear lacquer. (Still looks great 5 years later).
As others have said, each time I try a new technique and it works. (This
process also gets me a lot of kindling!) I built a Grandmother clock
from plans and am working on designing one from scratch sometime in the
future.

When your neighbors come to you with problems and you know how to do it
because you have already crossed that bridge. Like others have said,
when it is a fun journey as well as a nice project. I spend a lot of
time planning before I ever go into the shop. It is always a joy to make
the first cuts on a project that until than has only existed on paper
(or in my computers memory!)
Bruce
Rolling Thunder wrote:
On 30 Jan 2005 20:31:29 -0800, wrote:


How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?


Snip

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow


I haven't made it to the skilled craftsman measure yet but my major
mileposts we

My son wanting something I made. I made a patio chair from some
2X4s out of a library book project plan.

My daughter wanting a table to fit in an alcove. This was a first
time making a table. It is a hallway/sofa table based upon a shaker
design. A lot of firsts with this one. My daughter's friends
wouldn't believe it was hand made and had to make closer inspections.
That put a grin on my face.

Made some wall shelves that were based upon pictures from a
Ballard catalog. They were listed at $90 and made for about
$15 from molding. The SWMBO has six of them hanging on
the walls; first major approval. Daughter has a couple now
too.

First sale of work to some of my daughter's friends who wanted
what I made for her patio: utility benches, patio chairs and matching
small table. Real money for those; a first.

Oh, and recycling wood from dumpsters at construction sites.
So I haven't spent much on wood, mostly on screws, paint,
sandpaper and such.

I really enjoy the Adirondack chairs I made for myself. Just
sitting in 'em makes me feel good; enjoying the day with
a brew and the shop dog by my side ( oh, meant to say
the SWMBO at my side). ;-)

Thunder

P.S. Project list now includes: book shelf for computer room,
daughter request for cedar chest, headboard for SWMBO,
and another workbench for myself. Ha! Waiting for
the weather to warm up to start again.

Here's one of my milestones - I guess I've reached at least "seasoned"
status because my body can trim out several rooms of a house all the while
my mind is firmly planted on a project i have going on in my shop! --dave



wrote in message
...
On 30 Jan 2005 20:31:29 -0800, wrote:

How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

I realize that everyone's process is different, but I feel certain that
every woodworker has certain waypoints on his or her journey. For
beginners, it may be as simple as a straight cut with a circular saw.
For seasoned veterans, perhaps the hand-cut full blind mitered
dovetail.

For myself, I started in woodworking because I had an original idea for
a coffee table, and was too frugal (i.e., cheap) to pay someone else to
execute my design. Countless hours later, I had one hell of a sturdy
coffee table. There came a tremendous satisfaction in finishing a
project, even if it was nothing but a bunch of strips of plywood. That
was Milestone #1: Completing the First Project.

Another milestone for me was my first decent set of hand-cut dovetails.
It took 6 tries, and they still don't look 'good' but at least I
didn't burn these. Oddly enough, to date I have not used a dovetail
joint in a project I've built.

Some other milestones for me include first (good) M&T joint, first
working jig, first improvement to existing machinery, first commission,
first (good) panel glue-up, and first project SWMBO would allow me to
leave in the house. I may be using the Milestone moniker a bit
loosely, but you get the idea.

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

In my case when SWMBO sees something in a catalog, looks at me and
says 'you can make that'!

Okay, so I've got a long way to go.

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

The only milestone I've reached is finally completing a project where the
finish item consisted of more bd ft of wood than the resulting scrap pile.

wrote in message
oups.com...
How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank amateur
to seasoned craftsman?

I realize that everyone's process is different, but I feel certain that
every woodworker has certain waypoints on his or her journey. For
beginners, it may be as simple as a straight cut with a circular saw.
For seasoned veterans, perhaps the hand-cut full blind mitered
dovetail.

For myself, I started in woodworking because I had an original idea for
a coffee table, and was too frugal (i.e., cheap) to pay someone else to
execute my design. Countless hours later, I had one hell of a sturdy
coffee table. There came a tremendous satisfaction in finishing a
project, even if it was nothing but a bunch of strips of plywood. That
was Milestone #1: Completing the First Project.

Another milestone for me was my first decent set of hand-cut dovetails.
It took 6 tries, and they still don't look 'good' but at least I
didn't burn these. Oddly enough, to date I have not used a dovetail
joint in a project I've built.

Some other milestones for me include first (good) M&T joint, first
working jig, first improvement to existing machinery, first commission,
first (good) panel glue-up, and first project SWMBO would allow me to
leave in the house. I may be using the Milestone moniker a bit
loosely, but you get the idea.

I hit another milestone today. It was this:
"Dude, those are way nicer than what you see in the stores." That was
my buddy, referring to a pair of end tables I made this weekend.
Admittedly, he furniture shops at Big Lots, but the reverence was
genuine.

Also, for some of y'all, there's got to be a point at which you don't
reach many more real milestones. The learning curve has pretty well
flattened out. I mean, is there ever a point at which woodworking
becomes purely rote execution, or is there _always_ a challenge in it?
For all the work I did on two end tables (and two accent tables last
weekend), I figure I've got small tables down cold. At least, small
tables with 2x2 legs and 4" aprons and dowel joints.

So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow

I have had many high points eg, Completing my trade certificate in
Cabinet making, and Furniture Design. Having my own business. Seeing the
smile on kiddie's faces when they purchase a Toy that I have Made etc.
However THE MILESTONE, was a wooden letter holder I made for my
grandmother when I was 11. She lived 600km from me so visits were rare.
When I was 28 we moved to the same town as her and on her mantle piece
was this letter holder I had made her.
She died when I was 38 and my mother gave me the letter holder. It now
sits on our mantle piece.
John

****, I am getting teary writing this and I'm now 48 sheeeeesh

"John" wrote in message
...
I have had many high points eg, Completing my trade certificate in Cabinet
making, and Furniture Design. Having my own business. Seeing the smile on
kiddie's faces when they purchase a Toy that I have Made etc.
However THE MILESTONE, was a wooden letter holder I made for my
grandmother when I was 11. She lived 600km from me so visits were rare.
When I was 28 we moved to the same town as her and on her mantle piece was
this letter holder I had made her.
She died when I was 38 and my mother gave me the letter holder. It now
sits on our mantle piece.
John

****, I am getting teary writing this and I'm now 48 sheeeeesh

Reminds me of a puzzle I sent to my grandmother on the left coast in the mid
60s. I made the puzzle on my father's Shopsmith scroll saw when I was about
8 years old. When my father was at his sister's house in FL a few years ago
he found out that my aunt now has the puzzle--this is some 20 years after my
grandmother died. My mother still has a walnut beverage tray I made in the
early 70s. Knowing that these things have endured for that long is pretty
cool.

In more recent times, despite winning a ribbon at a woodworking show last
year I still don't feel like I've arrived. I'm pretty proficient at many of
the mechanical tasks but feel that I have a long way to go in many areas.
For example, design, rococo carving, and veneering are areas in which I'd
like to develop skills. I also appreciate that I am terribly hard on myself
and few people can see errors that stick out like a sore thumb to me!

John

wrote:
How is it that we, as woodworkers, gauge our progress from rank
amateur
to seasoned craftsman?
....
So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First
project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?

Well, I'm still not to the "seasoned craftsman" level. But I knew I
was getting better when I entered a small show and won a first:
http://home.earthlink.net/~nateperki...radle/PB260032
..JPG
p.s. The daughter's smile is worth more to me than the blue ribbon :-)

Dave Jackson wrote:

I still cannot decide at what point can a man consider himself a "master
carpenter"
or "master craftsman". My SWMBO (bless her) says that I am one, but that

You want my take on it? People who call themselves a "master" of anything
almost never are, while people who beat themselves up for years over
whether they qualify to be a "master" yet are usually the true masters of
any endeavor. So, ironically, not being sure whether you're really a
"master" or not yet, you probably are.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Stephen M wrote:

The bittersweet milestone: Realizing that my I had eclipsed my dad's
skills.

Having Dad come over for help or advice, yup. Me too. I think in my case
the difference is that Dad has never been a craftsman, but simply a
utilitarian, and a miser. Much of what he has done, he has done simply to
save himself money. He's never been able to understand how I can pour
money into something that doesn't save me money, and doesn't earn me money.
He thinks it's all a completely ridiculous waste of time and resources.

Until he wants to use one of my machines or borrow some of my tools
anyway.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

wrote:

Another milestone for me was my first decent set of hand-cut dovetails.
It took 6 tries, and they still don't look 'good' but at least I
didn't burn these. Oddly enough, to date I have not used a dovetail
joint in a project I've built.

Me neither. Dave in Fairfax tells me I should do about 100 test runs before
I try it for real, and I think he's right. I guess I'm just afraid I'd get
two of them perfect, or three of them perfect, and bungle the last one
horribly.

Some other milestones for me include first (good) M&T joint, first

First large project. I made it out of cheap 1x2s that I cut with a cheap
plastic miter box, and cheap plywood that I cut out with a cheap B&D
jigsaw, finished with cheap Minwhacks stain, and I think Red Devil poly. I
measured the space, drew it out on paper, figured and calculated and cut,
and made it, and damn if it didn't fit.

This:

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5...lant-stand.jpg

(It doesn't quite fit here. It fits the original window it used to sit in
front of perfectly. The kind of neat thing about looking at this picture
now, a year or two later, is that all of those plants are still alive. I
finally found a collection of indestructible houseplants. I have killed
teeming masses of the poor unsuspecting *******s, but these hardy critters
can stand up to the worst kind of inept treatment ol' Silvan can dish out.)

First real lumber that wasn't from a BORG or recycled from something someone
threw away. Hand in hand with this, first walnut, first time I ever used
hand planes to make something out of semi-rough stock.

First halfway respectable table saw.

First shellac.

First time I did an entire project without using any sandpaper. (Planes and
scrapers.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

BCD wrote:

But to build a large piece of furniture, of you own design, speaks volumes
about your knowledge and craftsmanship.

Sort of. I just mentioned this in another post on this thread, but I will
mention it again:

http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5...lant-stand.jpg

That is a large piece of furniture (about 7' wide and 5' tall IIRC), but it
didn't take much knowledge of craftsmanship. It fits the space, and it
works. Those are two good things I can say about it. After that, I start
to run out of good things to say about it. I'd do it a lot differently
now. More glue and fewer screws for starters. (It has 237 screws.)


--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:52:31 -0500, "Stephen M"
wrote:

Wow,

Great question, great answers.

How's this for an alternative sort of milestone:

My dad has always had a shop with a table saw. Growing up I simply assumed
that all houses had a shop of some sort. Although I only recognized this in
retrospect, my dad was my inspiration for adopting this hobby.

The bittersweet milestone: Realizing that my I had eclipsed my dad's skills.

-Steve

Ahh, but you should see the smile on your Dad's face.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 01:11:48 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Stephen M wrote:

The bittersweet milestone: Realizing that my I had eclipsed my dad's
skills.

Having Dad come over for help or advice, yup. Me too. I think in my case
the difference is that Dad has never been a craftsman, but simply a
utilitarian, and a miser. Much of what he has done, he has done simply to
save himself money. He's never been able to understand how I can pour
money into something that doesn't save me money, and doesn't earn me money.
He thinks it's all a completely ridiculous waste of time and resources.

Until he wants to use one of my machines or borrow some of my tools
anyway.

I think your Dad, who grew up during a depression and world war, is
like most of his generation. They learned how to do things
themselves. Everything from carpentry to auto mechanic to whatever.
My Dad and Uncle were like that. They could tackle anything and
do well with it. Jack of all trades but master of none.

Thunder

Did you take the "Masters" test?
Actually, when I started doing woodworking I was also learning machine work.
I build and repair photo equipment. I was eagerly learning to use a lathe,
milling machine and the other shop tools. My boss told me that the test they
were using for machinists was very easy. You have to make a steel triangle
fit perfectly in a hole all three ways. I heard that and thought, that's
crazy, I can do that. Well, it's not that easy.
max

Dave Jackson wrote:

I still cannot decide at what point can a man consider himself a "master
carpenter"
or "master craftsman". My SWMBO (bless her) says that I am one, but that

You want my take on it? People who call themselves a "master" of anything
almost never are, while people who beat themselves up for years over
whether they qualify to be a "master" yet are usually the true masters of
any endeavor. So, ironically, not being sure whether you're really a
"master" or not yet, you probably are.

On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 01:07:59 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Dave Jackson wrote:

I still cannot decide at what point can a man consider himself a "master
carpenter"
or "master craftsman". My SWMBO (bless her) says that I am one, but that

You want my take on it? People who call themselves a "master" of anything
almost never are, while people who beat themselves up for years over
whether they qualify to be a "master" yet are usually the true masters of
any endeavor. So, ironically, not being sure whether you're really a
"master" or not yet, you probably are.

When I was young I knew a man named Gerald Bates, he had a son named
Richard, IIRC. At that time kids didn't call adults by first names so
Gerald Bates was always "Mr. Bates" to me. Only later did it occur to
me that a hundred or more years ago unmarried men were referred to by
the title of "Master", so this man and his son would have been Mister
Bates and Master Bates.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

In article , Tim Douglass wrote:

When I was young I knew a man named Gerald Bates, he had a son named
Richard, IIRC. At that time kids didn't call adults by first names so
Gerald Bates was always "Mr. Bates" to me. Only later did it occur to
me that a hundred or more years ago unmarried men were referred to by
the title of "Master", so this man and his son would have been Mister
Bates and Master Bates.

Even worse, the son would have been called "Dick"...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 01:07:59 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

When I was young I knew a man named Gerald Bates, he had a son named
Richard, IIRC. At that time kids didn't call adults by first names so
Gerald Bates was always "Mr. Bates" to me. Only later did it occur to
me that a hundred or more years ago unmarried men were referred to by
the title of "Master", so this man and his son would have been Mister
Bates and Master Bates.


Back in another life I had this rather plump 9th grade girl in my science
class. Her last name was Hoar...most of her relatives pronounced it 'Hair'
but this poor girl's family pronounced it.....you guessed it "whore"
When I called roll for the first time she stated her name and she turned
bright red like a tomato and the rest of the class laughed. I NEVER used
her last name only her first in class.

Larry

wrote:

In my case when SWMBO sees something in a catalog, looks at me and
says 'you can make that'!

Okay, so I've got a long way to go.


Yeah, right now I'm at the phase of where *I* see something in a
catalog and say, "I can make that." And my SWMBO looks at me w/ The
Rock Eyebrow and says, "yeah, but WHEN?"
Too many other house projects that don't require woodworking

-Chris

On 30 Jan 2005 20:31:29 -0800, wrote:


So what is the standard by which we measure our growth? First project?
First dovetail? First commission? First cabinet? Or maybe Last
cabinet, Mr. Watson?
Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, and was curious.

-Phil Crow


My next milestone will be finishing the kitchen remodel and the bath
remodel, so that I can actually do some bona fide wooddorking.

As with most milestones in the pursuit of excellence - although we
appear to be walking in circles when seen from above, we are actually
drilling down to a deeper understanding - when seen from a proper
perspective.


tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)

"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 01:07:59 -0500, Silvan
When I was young I knew a man named Gerald Bates, he had a son named
Richard, IIRC. At that time kids didn't call adults by first names so
Gerald Bates was always "Mr. Bates" to me. Only later did it occur to
me that a hundred or more years ago unmarried men were referred to by
the title of "Master", so this man and his son would have been Mister
Bates and Master Bates.

Tim Douglass

English public schools and preparatory schools here which use their model
call the instructors "masters." We had a Bates who was our music master,
who provided music by playing a Hamilton during chapel.

Master Bates on the upright organ....