Is there a sure way of telling the difference? I've seen some wood
that claims to be red oak that looked pretty white. Also, are there
any good reasons to use one rather than the other?

"Warren" wrote in message
. ..


Is there a sure way of telling the difference? I've seen some wood
that claims to be red oak that looked pretty white. Also, are there
any good reasons to use one rather than the other?

Red oak is more porous, and courser texture. . It does have a redder cast to
it if you look at the two side by side. White oak is often more tan.

White oak is more weather resistant and a better choice for outdoor
projects.

Warren wrote:

Is there a sure way of telling the difference? I've seen some wood
that claims to be red oak that looked pretty white. Also, are there
any good reasons to use one rather than the other?

The cell structure of red oak is like being composed of a bunch of
hollow tubes. You can blow through a piece of red oak. Try this with
white oak and you'll pop your ear drums.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:11:29 -0500, Warren
wrote:

Is there a sure way of telling the difference? I've seen some wood
that claims to be red oak that looked pretty white.

Look at the leaves. Red oaks are one of those species that contain
anthocyanins so they go bright red in the fall, not just a faded
brown. That's where the name comes from.

If the leaves are green, then oaks have readily identifiable lobed
leaves. Red oaks have sharp points to the lobes, white oaks are
rounded. Be careful though, as there are a great many minor oak
species and it's easy to miss one of these.

As to the timber, then you should be able to Google a few pictures.
They're generally quite easily distinguished, but the crucial thing is
to look at the longitudinal vessels. In white oak these are blocked by
bubble-like tyloses. in red oaks they're clear.

Also, are there any good reasons to use one rather than the other?

Because of the open vessels, you can't make waterproof boats or
barrels with red oak. Red oak is also a "coarser" looking timber and
not generally used for cabinetry.

--
Smert' spamionam

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 03:08:14 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:


"Doug Miller" wrote in message

Odd... to me, white oak smells like toast and vanilla.

And red oak smells like cat ****.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

And white oak gives those flavors to wine or whiskey.

While red oak makes it taste like cat ****. You can't make barrels out of
red oak but some people use oak chips.

--

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html

"Warren" wrote in message
. ..


Is there a sure way of telling the difference? I've seen some wood
that claims to be red oak that looked pretty white. Also, are there
any good reasons to use one rather than the other?

All the others are true, but the biggest difference in appearance is the
relative size of the rays in white oaks. Much larger overall. Check the
split and white'll show a lot more bright ray.

(1) Get it wet (i.e. spit on it). White oak stays about the same
color when wet, red oak get much pinker.

(2) Smell it. White oak smells like swamp gas to me.

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:11:29 -0500, Warren
wrote:



Is there a sure way of telling the difference? I've seen some wood
that claims to be red oak that looked pretty white. Also, are there
any good reasons to use one rather than the other?


They are both good woods for furniture. White oak, unlike red oak,
rot resistant and can be used outdoors. If you are wanting oak for an
indoor project, pick the lower cost one unless one looks better than
the other.

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:11:29 -0500, Warren
wrote:



Is there a sure way of telling the difference? I've seen some wood
that claims to be red oak that looked pretty white. Also, are there
any good reasons to use one rather than the other?

Red oak is easier to work after steam bending. If the wood is seasoned, red
oak steam bends better than white as well.

Andy Dingley wrote:

leaves. Red oaks have sharp points to the lobes, white oaks are
rounded. Be careful though, as there are a great many minor oak
species and it's easy to miss one of these.

Interesting. There's an enormous tree near here. The leaves have rounded
lobes, and they turn bright red in fall. It's about 80' tall with huge
laterals running parallel to the ground, up to maybe 14" in diameter.
Because of the brachiation and the lobes on the leaves, I have always
assumed it was a white oak.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

In article , DJ Delorie wrote:

(1) Get it wet (i.e. spit on it). White oak stays about the same
color when wet, red oak get much pinker.

(2) Smell it. White oak smells like swamp gas to me.

Odd... to me, white oak smells like toast and vanilla.

And red oak smells like cat ****.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
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"Doug Miller" wrote in message

Odd... to me, white oak smells like toast and vanilla.

And red oak smells like cat ****.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

And white oak gives those flavors to wine or whiskey.

Used to be that US made barrels were made with kiln dried wood, but now they
use air dried like the French have for years. American oak was considered
too strong for good wine.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:03:59 -0500, Silvan
wrote:

Interesting. There's an enormous tree near here. The leaves have rounded
lobes, and they turn bright red in fall.

Then I'd guess it's a red oak. They often have leaves with a rounded
outline to the lobes, but there's a sharp point to the tip of them
(you might feel this better than seeing it). The ones with the
"pointed lobes" but without the spike are more usually the minor
species.

This is for the UK though - oaks are hard enough to identify anyway,
without trying to guess those on another continent without a picture.

Because of the open vessels, you can't make waterproof boats or
barrels with red oak. Red oak is also a "coarser" looking timber and
not generally used for cabinetry.

Geez, I hope this is a troll!
http://www.woodmagazine.com/wood/sto...y/data/136.xml

One way to tell red oak from white it to taste the acorns. White is usually
edible raw, while red must be boiled to remove the tanin.

Andy Dingley wrote:
Because of the open vessels, you can't make waterproof boats or
barrels with red oak. Red oak is also a "coarser" looking timber and
not generally used for cabinetry.

That is going to come as a shock to the *quite* large amount of
cabinetry around here that is built with Red Oak. White Oak is rare
around here; red oak is common as dirt. I think you may have made a
little too wild generalization there...

PK

"toller" wrote in message
...
One way to tell red oak from white it to taste the acorns. White is
usually edible raw, while red must be boiled to remove the tanin.


So what do you do with a Live Oak acorn?

Andy Dingley responds:

Also, are there any good reasons to use one rather than the other?

Because of the open vessels, you can't make waterproof boats or
barrels with red oak. Red oak is also a "coarser" looking timber and
not generally used for cabinetry.

I'll buy coarser, but "not generally used for cabinetry" may be true in
England. It sure isn't, and hasn't been, in the U.S. I'd guess roughly 75% of
the oak furniture and cabinetry I've seen is red oak, extending backwards in
time to Victorian pieces.

These days, when you order oak cabinets, the odds are you're going to get red
oak.

Coarseness, the openness of the grain, is reduced with fillers.

Charlie Self
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush

In article , "Luigi Zanasi" wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 03:08:14 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

And white oak gives those flavors to wine or whiskey.

While red oak makes it taste like cat ****. You can't make barrels out of
red oak

Sure you can. You just can't hold liquids in them. No reason you can't make a
nail keg out of red oak. :-)

but some people use oak chips.

But not *red* oak chips. :-b


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

These days, when you order oak cabinets, the odds are you're going to get
red
oak.

A local hardwood supplier has his S2S1E bins of red and white oak side by
side. Folks, being sloppy, often mix them up and you'll find red oak in the
white oak bin quite often ... but rarely the other way around.

Always wondered how much red oak is bought that way.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

Swingman responds:

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

These days, when you order oak cabinets, the odds are you're going to get
red
oak.

A local hardwood supplier has his S2S1E bins of red and white oak side by
side. Folks, being sloppy, often mix them up and you'll find red oak in the
white oak bin quite often ... but rarely the other way around.

Always wondered how much red oak is bought that way.

Around here, most red oak, but not all, is pinkish, while the white oak tends
towards a light tan. There are enough variants in color to make it very, very
easy to mistake what you're picked up. Unless you're building for weather
resistance, my guess is that it doesn't make a whole lot of difference in the
end result if the two woods are close enough in appearance to be mistaken for
each other. But if weather resistance is needed, red oak is nearly useless,
while if bending is needed it is the easist to use (but the smart woodworker
will probably grab ash for its near-oak appearance and super great
bendability).

Charlie Self
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

"Charlie Self" wrote in message

These days, when you order oak cabinets, the odds are you're going to get
red
oak.

A local hardwood supplier has his S2S1E bins of red and white oak side by
side. Folks, being sloppy, often mix them up and you'll find red oak in
the
white oak bin quite often ... but rarely the other way around.

Must be Hardwood Products. They keep the S4S Red and White Oaks that way
too. Me being slopy pulled out 50 LF of White Oak thinking I was pulling
Red and Steve pointed out before he cut the 12' pieces in half that I had
White Oak. I looked back up at him and the bin and saw W. Oak. I said OH!
the "W" stands for White, I was thinking WED Oak. I smiled and bought the
White. I am just going to paint it anyway. LOL

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 03:08:14 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

While red oak makes it taste like cat ****.

So Luigi, can you describe that taste? LOL




www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html

"Leon" wrote in message
om...

"toller" wrote in message
...
One way to tell red oak from white it to taste the acorns. White is
usually edible raw, while red must be boiled to remove the tanin.


So what do you do with a Live Oak acorn?
When I was in Yosemite I read that live oak acorns were the indians' staple
food.
Anyhow, I "think" they are okay to eat raw; but since we don't have them in
the frigid Northeast I have never tried them.
Even if not edible, they are not poisonous; they will just be too bitter to
eat.
When boiled to remove the tanin, black oak acorns are too tasteless to eat,
though they are nutritious.

"Leon" wrote in message

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
wrote:

(1) Get it wet (i.e. spit on it). White oak stays about the same
color when wet, red oak get much pinker.

I notice that Red Oak takes on a pink cast when I sand it.

Damn you guys with your color acuity ... I wouldn't know pink if... never
mind.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"Leon" writes:
I notice that Red Oak takes on a pink cast when I sand it.

When our house was built, my dad was looking at our 7 year old red oak
dining room table sittin on our month old red oak floor. "Hey, your
table doesn't match the floor." I told him to come back in a year and
it would.

IMHO the best finish for red oak is time.

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:26:23 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

I notice that Red Oak takes on a pink cast when I sand it.

Try ammonia fuming it - it goes greenish ! If you're after that
Craftsman look you may need to use a reddish shellac to tone it down.

Lots of timber has a pink cast when sanded. Freshly green (English)
ash is very notable for it - a pure white log can have a pile of
sawdust next to it that turns pink as you watch. I think it's an
oxidation going on with the freshly exposed surface.

--
Smert' spamionam

"Leon" wrote in message
om...

Damn, I meant Hardwood Lumber.

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
"Leon" wrote in message

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
wrote:

(1) Get it wet (i.e. spit on it). White oak stays about the same
color when wet, red oak get much pinker.

I notice that Red Oak takes on a pink cast when I sand it.

Damn you guys with your color acuity ... I wouldn't know pink if... never
mind.


Ok, Pink is always ... never mind. LOL

"Leon" wrote in message

"Leon" wrote in message

Damn, I meant Hardwood Lumber.

Clark's Hardwood Lumber Co. over in the Heights ... same thing.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:17:02 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:24:48 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
news
While red oak makes it taste like cat ****.

So Luigi, can you describe that taste? LOL

Up there in the frozen tundra, liquid water is sometimes impossible to
find. :-)

Frozen *taiga*, not tundra. We have trees, unlike some people whose desert
location I will refrain from mentioning.

On the cat ****, it was in balmy Montreal, and not just any old tabby. See:

http://www.google.ca/groups?selm=3c9...sympatico .ca
--

Luigi
Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html

A sure way? Yes.

Get some sodium nitrite (NaNo2) 5% or 10% solution and put some on the oak. If
it leaves a dark mark if it is white oak.

From Gene Wengert, forum technical advisor:

Red oak is not always more red than white oak. For example, black oak (which is
a red oak) has no red at all. Color is about 50% accurate.

Although red oak will let you blow bubbles, so will some white oak. This test
is not too good. Red oak growing under stress will not let you blow bubbles.

There is a test where you put a few drops of sodium nitrite solution on the oak
and if it turns dark colored, it is white oak. This test is 100%.

You can separate most white from red by noticing the ray length in the flatsawn
portion of the lumber, even on rough lumber. Once someone shows you this
technique, it is pretty easy. Most lumber graders and others with experience
with both groups of oak can separate them easily.

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas..._from_Red.html

-Doug in Utah
P.S. I have about 240 senders blocked in this newsgroup so the chances of my
seeing a message from you are not that great--but that's just if you are a
vexation. :-)
============================

"Warren" wrote in a message

Is there a sure way of telling the difference? I've seen some wood
that claims to be red oak that looked pretty white. Also, are there
any good reasons to use one rather than the other?

On 17 Jan 2005 10:39:06 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Doug Miller responds:

In article , DJ Delorie wrote:

(1) Get it wet (i.e. spit on it). White oak stays about the same
color when wet, red oak get much pinker.

(2) Smell it. White oak smells like swamp gas to me.

Odd... to me, white oak smells like toast and vanilla.

And red oak smells like cat ****.

I don't often agree with Doug, but that sure seems true of *some* of the red
oak I get. Nasty stink.


Actually, Doug's description is kind -- I think red oak smells much worse
than that -- more like the product of peristalsis.


Charlie Self
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush



+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Now we'll just use some glue to hold things in place until the brads dry

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:24:48 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 03:08:14 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

While red oak makes it taste like cat ****.

So Luigi, can you describe that taste? LOL


Up there in the frozen tundra, liquid water is sometimes impossible to
find. :-)



www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html





+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Now we'll just use some glue to hold things in place until the brads dry

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

In article , Phisherman
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:11:29 -0500, Warren
wrote:



Is there a sure way of telling the difference? I've seen some wood
that claims to be red oak that looked pretty white. Also, are there
any good reasons to use one rather than the other?


They are both good woods for furniture. White oak, unlike red oak,
rot resistant and can be used outdoors. If you are wanting oak for an
indoor project, pick the lower cost one unless one looks better than
the other.


Thanks, that's the sort of answer I was looking for. They don't look
all that much different to me and red oak is cheaper, especially the
riff/quarter sawn.

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:39:45 GMT, "toller" wrote:


"Leon" wrote in message
. com...

"toller" wrote in message
...
One way to tell red oak from white it to taste the acorns. White is
usually edible raw, while red must be boiled to remove the tanin.


So what do you do with a Live Oak acorn?
When I was in Yosemite I read that live oak acorns were the indians' staple
food.
Anyhow, I "think" they are okay to eat raw; but since we don't have them in
the frigid Northeast I have never tried them.
Even if not edible, they are not poisonous; they will just be too bitter to
eat.
When boiled to remove the tanin, black oak acorns are too tasteless to eat,
though they are nutritious.

yep.. they used to grind acorns into a kind of flour...
did you get a chance to see any of the grinding rocks while you were
there?


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:03:35 -0500, SawDust (Pat) wrote:

St. Jacque Street - Candiac ?

Candiac? Sorry I don't get the reference. The lion incident was (IIRC) at
the old Palais du commerce on Berri & what is now de Maisonneuve. It was
in 1960 or '61.

--
Luigi
Current real email is my first name in lower case while the domain is
yknet dot ca
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:17:02 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:24:48 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:



On the cat ****, it was in balmy Montreal, and not just any old tabby.
See:

LOL

"Leon" wrote in message
. com...

"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:17:02 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:24:48 GMT, "Leon"

wrote:



On the cat ****, it was in balmy Montreal, and not just any old tabby.
See:

LOL

I didn't know they sold India Beer in YT, but anyone who's had it knows
about cat ****....

Warren wrote:

In article , Phisherman
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:11:29 -0500, Warren
wrote:



Is there a sure way of telling the difference? I've seen some wood
that claims to be red oak that looked pretty white. Also, are there
any good reasons to use one rather than the other?


They are both good woods for furniture. White oak, unlike red oak,
rot resistant and can be used outdoors. If you are wanting oak for an
indoor project, pick the lower cost one unless one looks better than
the other.

Thanks, that's the sort of answer I was looking for. They don't look
all that much different to me and red oak is cheaper, especially the
riff/quarter sawn.

Before committing to it for any major project (that is, one that is
going to be quite a bit of time, effort or that you really want to come
out nice) I'd take a couple sample boards and finish them as you
propose. Unless they're different subspecies or unusual samples from
what I've seen, their appearance when finished may be markedly
different.

St. Jacque Street - Candiac ?

Pat


On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 14:01:14 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Luigi Zanasi" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:17:02 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:24:48 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:



On the cat ****, it was in balmy Montreal, and not just any old tabby.
See:

LOL