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Default Murphy bed progress

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.
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Default Murphy bed progress

On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 6:18:39 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


It's looking good and I like your use of modern technology.

I can't wait until you invite us all over for the final reveal.

I just bought some new silk pajamas.
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Default Murphy bed progress

On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.
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Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/20/2021 12:53 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, May 19, 2021 at 6:18:39 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


It's looking good and I like your use of modern technology.


Thank you!

The Shaper Origin has pretty much found it's way into every job I have
done for customers and myself. Except for the kitchen job that I
finished at the end of March. Kinda like the Domino, I had no idea that
I would use it this much so far. Cutting box joints are a piece of cake
and much easier than any jig that I have used, Leigh or Incra iBox.


I can't wait until you invite us all over for the final reveal.


Just around the corner. I am going to build tower cabinets to put
beside it too.

A screen shot of where this is headed.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And I just sanded and painted this part this morning.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/



I just bought some new silk pajamas.


TMI! ;~)
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On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.


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Default Murphy bed progress

On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.


I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.
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Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.


I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.

The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.

The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)

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Default Murphy bed progress

On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.


I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.


No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.

The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.


The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.

The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)


Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.
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On 5/20/2021 8:16 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.

I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.


No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.


If room is not an issue I can understand a permanent, less portable set
up and location.



The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.


The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.


The nice thing about the Kapex "set-up" is that it'll set up most
anywhere in no time, against the wall, in a tight spot for storage, or
in the middle of the shop for a few cuts.





The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)


Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.


Well the stand and extensions were pretty pricey compared to the Kapex.
Both together 3.5 years ago was just under $2600 TTL.


Expensive, absolutely, but with excellent dust collection and ease of
set up I do not hesitate to pull it out for a couple of cuts.
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On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

*Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.



Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


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On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:09:59 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 8:16 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.

I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.


No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.


If room is not an issue I can understand a permanent, less portable set
up and location.


Put it on wheels and shove it in the corner with the rest of the large
tools if space is a problem. The Dewalt stand is very good for that,
too. I intend to use it for my HF SCMS for outdoor work. If it
rains, so what?


The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.


The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.


The nice thing about the Kapex "set-up" is that it'll set up most
anywhere in no time, against the wall, in a tight spot for storage, or
in the middle of the shop for a few cuts.


No matter how easy it is to set up, it's even easier to bring the wood
to it.


The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)


Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.


Well the stand and extensions were pretty pricey compared to the Kapex.
Both together 3.5 years ago was just under $2600 TTL.


The Kapex is $1500, so that's $1100 for the stand. That is rather
expensive for a few pieces of bent and painted 3/4" metal conduit. ;-)

Even worse is the router table. I looked at one of them at Highland a
few years ago (they've been closed for Covid for 15 months). The
thing was flimsy and even rocked on the floor. I'd be afraid to use
it. The fence was crap too.

For anyone but an installed, the MFT is pretty silly, IMO. It's not
very strong, seems wobbly, and the dog holes in particle board seem to
be a bad idea.


Expensive, absolutely, but with excellent dust collection and ease of
set up I do not hesitate to pull it out for a couple of cuts.


I can't imagine setting it up for just a couple of cuts. I don't even
like taking the track saw out for a couple of cuts but there really
isn't an easier way. Systainers are another one of the good ideas for
installers but expensive, less than ideal, storage for everyone else.
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On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

*Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.



Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.
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Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/21/2021 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:09:59 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 8:16 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.

I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.

No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.


If room is not an issue I can understand a permanent, less portable set
up and location.


Put it on wheels and shove it in the corner with the rest of the large
tools if space is a problem. The Dewalt stand is very good for that,
too. I intend to use it for my HF SCMS for outdoor work. If it
rains, so what?


The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.

The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.


The nice thing about the Kapex "set-up" is that it'll set up most
anywhere in no time, against the wall, in a tight spot for storage, or
in the middle of the shop for a few cuts.


No matter how easy it is to set up, it's even easier to bring the wood
to it.


The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)

Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.


Well the stand and extensions were pretty pricey compared to the Kapex.
Both together 3.5 years ago was just under $2600 TTL.


The Kapex is $1500, so that's $1100 for the stand. That is rather
expensive for a few pieces of bent and painted 3/4" metal conduit. ;-)


Yes it is but when it works this well....



Even worse is the router table. I looked at one of them at Highland a
few years ago (they've been closed for Covid for 15 months). The
thing was flimsy and even rocked on the floor. I'd be afraid to use
it. The fence was crap too.

For anyone but an installed, the MFT is pretty silly, IMO. It's not
very strong, seems wobbly, and the dog holes in particle board seem to
be a bad idea.


I have had a MFT for about8 years now. I like it even though it wobbles
a bit with out the leg stiffeners. And I use it a lot, and fold it up
when not in use. Plenty strong, it just wobbles. And the MDF top, not
particle board, has held up very well, the dog holes are used often and
show no signs of wear




Expensive, absolutely, but with excellent dust collection and ease of
set up I do not hesitate to pull it out for a couple of cuts.


I can't imagine setting it up for just a couple of cuts. I don't even
like taking the track saw out for a couple of cuts but there really
isn't an easier way. Systainers are another one of the good ideas for
installers but expensive, less than ideal, storage for everyone else.


Well there you go. A couple of cuts is not an issue for me. I make
those cuts to square stock and for when I buy stock that is too long to
comfortably cross cut on the TS.

Jury on the abstainers is still out for me. Too much expense added to
the cost of the tool. But I do like dedicated holders for my tools,
even my Shaper Origin came in a large abstainer. I feel like the
Systainers are better than what "most"of the competition is offering.
One exception is the case that came with my free Bosch impact driver.
It is square and flat. That makes storing much much easier that the
plastic injection molded cases that are round everywhere.

So the Systainers have a lot of advantages for me, they just should not
be that expensive.
  #14   Report Post  
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Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

*Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.



Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.

So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.
  #15   Report Post  
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Default Murphy bed progress

On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:37:28 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

*Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/


I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.


Eighty pounds isn't as much as I thought. That's only a sheet of 3/4"
plywood. I was thinking three times that, anyway. Gas struts will
easily handle that.

So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.


Up and out, if I understand? Is it going to need a ladder to get into
the bed?


  #16   Report Post  
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Posts: 2,833
Default Murphy bed progress

On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:31:54 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:09:59 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 8:16 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.

I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.

No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.

If room is not an issue I can understand a permanent, less portable set
up and location.


Put it on wheels and shove it in the corner with the rest of the large
tools if space is a problem. The Dewalt stand is very good for that,
too. I intend to use it for my HF SCMS for outdoor work. If it
rains, so what?


The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.

The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.

The nice thing about the Kapex "set-up" is that it'll set up most
anywhere in no time, against the wall, in a tight spot for storage, or
in the middle of the shop for a few cuts.


No matter how easy it is to set up, it's even easier to bring the wood
to it.


The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)

Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.


Well the stand and extensions were pretty pricey compared to the Kapex.
Both together 3.5 years ago was just under $2600 TTL.


The Kapex is $1500, so that's $1100 for the stand. That is rather
expensive for a few pieces of bent and painted 3/4" metal conduit. ;-)


Yes it is but when it works this well....



Even worse is the router table. I looked at one of them at Highland a
few years ago (they've been closed for Covid for 15 months). The
thing was flimsy and even rocked on the floor. I'd be afraid to use
it. The fence was crap too.

For anyone but an installed, the MFT is pretty silly, IMO. It's not
very strong, seems wobbly, and the dog holes in particle board seem to
be a bad idea.


I have had a MFT for about8 years now. I like it even though it wobbles
a bit with out the leg stiffeners. And I use it a lot, and fold it up
when not in use. Plenty strong, it just wobbles. And the MDF top, not
particle board, has held up very well, the dog holes are used often and
show no signs of wear

A card table warbles a bit too. ...about the same bit.

The color looked more like particle board. I don't have one that I
can look at, so thought that's what it was.

I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.


Expensive, absolutely, but with excellent dust collection and ease of
set up I do not hesitate to pull it out for a couple of cuts.


I can't imagine setting it up for just a couple of cuts. I don't even
like taking the track saw out for a couple of cuts but there really
isn't an easier way. Systainers are another one of the good ideas for
installers but expensive, less than ideal, storage for everyone else.


Well there you go. A couple of cuts is not an issue for me. I make
those cuts to square stock and for when I buy stock that is too long to
comfortably cross cut on the TS.


My SCMS is always set up. I use it too often just to whack 2xs.

Jury on the abstainers is still out for me. Too much expense added to
the cost of the tool. But I do like dedicated holders for my tools,
even my Shaper Origin came in a large abstainer. I feel like the
Systainers are better than what "most"of the competition is offering.
One exception is the case that came with my free Bosch impact driver.
It is square and flat. That makes storing much much easier that the
plastic injection molded cases that are round everywhere.


Blow mold cases suck worse but it would systainers would be much
better if the plastic was somewhat softer. Brittle and tools doesn't
go well.

So the Systainers have a lot of advantages for me, they just should not
be that expensive.


For the time being they work but I plan to make them redundant.
  #17   Report Post  
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Posts: 49
Default Murphy bed progress

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF

on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Bob
  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 12,155
Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/21/2021 7:10 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:31:54 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:22 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:09:59 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 8:16 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.

I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.

No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.

If room is not an issue I can understand a permanent, less portable set
up and location.

Put it on wheels and shove it in the corner with the rest of the large
tools if space is a problem. The Dewalt stand is very good for that,
too. I intend to use it for my HF SCMS for outdoor work. If it
rains, so what?


The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.

The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.

The nice thing about the Kapex "set-up" is that it'll set up most
anywhere in no time, against the wall, in a tight spot for storage, or
in the middle of the shop for a few cuts.

No matter how easy it is to set up, it's even easier to bring the wood
to it.


The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)

Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.


Well the stand and extensions were pretty pricey compared to the Kapex.
Both together 3.5 years ago was just under $2600 TTL.

The Kapex is $1500, so that's $1100 for the stand. That is rather
expensive for a few pieces of bent and painted 3/4" metal conduit. ;-)


Yes it is but when it works this well....



Even worse is the router table. I looked at one of them at Highland a
few years ago (they've been closed for Covid for 15 months). The
thing was flimsy and even rocked on the floor. I'd be afraid to use
it. The fence was crap too.

For anyone but an installed, the MFT is pretty silly, IMO. It's not
very strong, seems wobbly, and the dog holes in particle board seem to
be a bad idea.


I have had a MFT for about8 years now. I like it even though it wobbles
a bit with out the leg stiffeners. And I use it a lot, and fold it up
when not in use. Plenty strong, it just wobbles. And the MDF top, not
particle board, has held up very well, the dog holes are used often and
show no signs of wear

A card table warbles a bit too. ...about the same bit.


And the card table works just fine for what it was intended. I thought
that I would have an issue with the wobble but I have never taken the
extra steps to buy or make the leg stiffeners. I really only notice the
wobble when I set the MFT up. It really does not wobble enough to be
detrimental for anything I do on it, including inlay with the Origin.



The color looked more like particle board. I don't have one that I
can look at, so thought that's what it was.

I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.


They probably last because the dogs fit well, Festool dogs. ;~) Either
way an MDF with dog holes is easier to replace than a solid wood work bench.



Expensive, absolutely, but with excellent dust collection and ease of
set up I do not hesitate to pull it out for a couple of cuts.

I can't imagine setting it up for just a couple of cuts. I don't even
like taking the track saw out for a couple of cuts but there really
isn't an easier way. Systainers are another one of the good ideas for
installers but expensive, less than ideal, storage for everyone else.


Well there you go. A couple of cuts is not an issue for me. I make
those cuts to square stock and for when I buy stock that is too long to
comfortably cross cut on the TS.


My SCMS is always set up. I use it too often just to whack 2xs.


So on this Murphy bed project I am trimming the edges of the MDO with
poplar. I am cutting all of those pieces to length, 20 pieces and on
each end square the end, between 30 and 40 cuts. Here is the dust build
up on the Kapex so far. Zoom in on the right side of the miter scale
and near the miter lock. ;~)

I will have to admit that on the kitchen job something was not right,
IIRC there was a hunk of wood disturbing the suction path and sawdust
was considerable, considering this is a Kapex, but not now.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/



Jury on the abstainers is still out for me. Too much expense added to
the cost of the tool. But I do like dedicated holders for my tools,
even my Shaper Origin came in a large abstainer. I feel like the
Systainers are better than what "most"of the competition is offering.
One exception is the case that came with my free Bosch impact driver.
It is square and flat. That makes storing much much easier that the
plastic injection molded cases that are round everywhere.


Blow mold cases suck worse but it would systainers would be much
better if the plastic was somewhat softer. Brittle and tools doesn't
go well.


The systainers seem brittle but I have yet to chip,crack, or break one
and my oldest are about 13 years old, and I have 10 of them.



So the Systainers have a lot of advantages for me, they just should not
be that expensive.


For the time being they work but I plan to make them redundant.


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Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/22/2021 8:44 PM, Bob D wrote:
On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF

on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Bob


Nope, I use these too.

https://www.rockler.com/in-line-clam...CUNo QAvD_BwE
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Posts: 2,833
Default Murphy bed progress

On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF

on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.


  #21   Report Post  
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Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/21/2021 4:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:37:28 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

*Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.


Eighty pounds isn't as much as I thought. That's only a sheet of 3/4"
plywood. I was thinking three times that, anyway. Gas struts will
easily handle that.


Total weight for the mattress and the fold down platform are probably
close to double that.



So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.


Up and out, if I understand? Is it going to need a ladder to get into
the bed?


UP only to assemble, from sitting on the floor now. After that is only
fold/pivot out.

And no, I think it will be close to normal bed height, nothing like the
beds that I build with a double stack set of drawers on the bottom.

This is the one I built 10 years ago with 10" mattress.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And closed, notice that the platform is elevated off of the floor about
4~5". That was what I was talking about above.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...n/photostream/
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Default Murphy bed progress

On Sun, 23 May 2021 15:21:48 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 7:10 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:31:54 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:22 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:09:59 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 8:16 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.

I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.

No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.

If room is not an issue I can understand a permanent, less portable set
up and location.

Put it on wheels and shove it in the corner with the rest of the large
tools if space is a problem. The Dewalt stand is very good for that,
too. I intend to use it for my HF SCMS for outdoor work. If it
rains, so what?


The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.

The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.

The nice thing about the Kapex "set-up" is that it'll set up most
anywhere in no time, against the wall, in a tight spot for storage, or
in the middle of the shop for a few cuts.

No matter how easy it is to set up, it's even easier to bring the wood
to it.


The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)

Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.


Well the stand and extensions were pretty pricey compared to the Kapex.
Both together 3.5 years ago was just under $2600 TTL.

The Kapex is $1500, so that's $1100 for the stand. That is rather
expensive for a few pieces of bent and painted 3/4" metal conduit. ;-)

Yes it is but when it works this well....



Even worse is the router table. I looked at one of them at Highland a
few years ago (they've been closed for Covid for 15 months). The
thing was flimsy and even rocked on the floor. I'd be afraid to use
it. The fence was crap too.

For anyone but an installed, the MFT is pretty silly, IMO. It's not
very strong, seems wobbly, and the dog holes in particle board seem to
be a bad idea.

I have had a MFT for about8 years now. I like it even though it wobbles
a bit with out the leg stiffeners. And I use it a lot, and fold it up
when not in use. Plenty strong, it just wobbles. And the MDF top, not
particle board, has held up very well, the dog holes are used often and
show no signs of wear

A card table warbles a bit too. ...about the same bit.


And the card table works just fine for what it was intended. I thought
that I would have an issue with the wobble but I have never taken the
extra steps to buy or make the leg stiffeners. I really only notice the
wobble when I set the MFT up. It really does not wobble enough to be
detrimental for anything I do on it, including inlay with the Origin.


I was at Woodcraft yesterday and looked at the MFT again. It really
does look like particle board (yes, I know it's MDF). I don't like
the wobble at all. I wouldn't pay what they want for it. I certainly
don't need the mobility and that's all it's good for.


The color looked more like particle board. I don't have one that I
can look at, so thought that's what it was.

I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.


They probably last because the dogs fit well, Festool dogs. ;~) Either
way an MDF with dog holes is easier to replace than a solid wood work bench.

My question is holes or no holes. Barring a fire, comet strike, or
great flood, a _solid_ workbench will never have to be replaced. Mine
didn't cost much more than a MFT replacement top. It'll take a lot
more weight than a pile of thinwall conduit, too. Bit heavier,
though.

Expensive, absolutely, but with excellent dust collection and ease of
set up I do not hesitate to pull it out for a couple of cuts.

I can't imagine setting it up for just a couple of cuts. I don't even
like taking the track saw out for a couple of cuts but there really
isn't an easier way. Systainers are another one of the good ideas for
installers but expensive, less than ideal, storage for everyone else.


Well there you go. A couple of cuts is not an issue for me. I make
those cuts to square stock and for when I buy stock that is too long to
comfortably cross cut on the TS.


My SCMS is always set up. I use it too often just to whack 2xs.


So on this Murphy bed project I am trimming the edges of the MDO with
poplar. I am cutting all of those pieces to length, 20 pieces and on
each end square the end, between 30 and 40 cuts. Here is the dust build
up on the Kapex so far. Zoom in on the right side of the miter scale
and near the miter lock. ;~)

I will have to admit that on the kitchen job something was not right,
IIRC there was a hunk of wood disturbing the suction path and sawdust
was considerable, considering this is a Kapex, but not now.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

I'm surprised you don't have a zero clearance insert.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/c...apex-miter-saw

Jury on the abstainers is still out for me. Too much expense added to
the cost of the tool. But I do like dedicated holders for my tools,
even my Shaper Origin came in a large abstainer. I feel like the
Systainers are better than what "most"of the competition is offering.
One exception is the case that came with my free Bosch impact driver.
It is square and flat. That makes storing much much easier that the
plastic injection molded cases that are round everywhere.


Blow mold cases suck worse but it would systainers would be much
better if the plastic was somewhat softer. Brittle and tools doesn't
go well.


The systainers seem brittle but I have yet to chip,crack, or break one
and my oldest are about 13 years old, and I have 10 of them.


I've never broken a blow-mold case either. That doesn't mean that
they don't suck.

So the Systainers have a lot of advantages for me, they just should not
be that expensive.


For the time being they work but I plan to make them redundant.

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Default Murphy bed progress

On Sun, 23 May 2021 15:36:56 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 4:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:37:28 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

*Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.


Eighty pounds isn't as much as I thought. That's only a sheet of 3/4"
plywood. I was thinking three times that, anyway. Gas struts will
easily handle that.


Total weight for the mattress and the fold down platform are probably
close to double that.

That's still less that I thought it was going to be (twice that).

So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.


Up and out, if I understand? Is it going to need a ladder to get into
the bed?


UP only to assemble, from sitting on the floor now. After that is only
fold/pivot out.

And no, I think it will be close to normal bed height, nothing like the
beds that I build with a double stack set of drawers on the bottom.

This is the one I built 10 years ago with 10" mattress.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And closed, notice that the platform is elevated off of the floor about
4~5". That was what I was talking about above.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...n/photostream/


Ah, a dust bunny pen.
  #24   Report Post  
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Default Murphy bed progress

On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 4:37:03 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 5/21/2021 4:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:37:28 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.


Eighty pounds isn't as much as I thought. That's only a sheet of 3/4"
plywood. I was thinking three times that, anyway. Gas struts will
easily handle that.

Total weight for the mattress and the fold down platform are probably
close to double that.

So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.


Up and out, if I understand? Is it going to need a ladder to get into
the bed?

UP only to assemble, from sitting on the floor now. After that is only
fold/pivot out.

And no, I think it will be close to normal bed height, nothing like the
beds that I build with a double stack set of drawers on the bottom.

This is the one I built 10 years ago with 10" mattress.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And closed, notice that the platform is elevated off of the floor about
4~5". That was what I was talking about above.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...n/photostream/


When are you going to build one of these?

https://i.imgur.com/n2cM86p.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8AlasZn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XjSbmBh.jpg

There's a built-in tower on the left that you can't see.

The height of the side rails leaves about foot of space so you
don't have to clean everything off the desk.
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Default Murphy bed progress

hn Sun, 23 May 2021 15:54:26 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 4:37:03 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 5/21/2021 4:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:37:28 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.

Eighty pounds isn't as much as I thought. That's only a sheet of 3/4"
plywood. I was thinking three times that, anyway. Gas struts will
easily handle that.

Total weight for the mattress and the fold down platform are probably
close to double that.

So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.

Up and out, if I understand? Is it going to need a ladder to get into
the bed?

UP only to assemble, from sitting on the floor now. After that is only
fold/pivot out.

And no, I think it will be close to normal bed height, nothing like the
beds that I build with a double stack set of drawers on the bottom.

This is the one I built 10 years ago with 10" mattress.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And closed, notice that the platform is elevated off of the floor about
4~5". That was what I was talking about above.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...n/photostream/


When are you going to build one of these?

https://i.imgur.com/n2cM86p.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8AlasZn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XjSbmBh.jpg


That would be awesome for a kid's room. Not sure about a junk shelf
above it though.

There's a built-in tower on the left that you can't see.

The height of the side rails leaves about foot of space so you
don't have to clean everything off the desk.



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Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF

on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?

If you use the Festool "clamping elements" on the 3/4" MDF surface they
will slightly tilt under pressure. But that does not hinder the use.
The dogs and the clamps have rubber pressure surfaces. AND with those
clamps mine included get large handle screws for the bottom of the dogs
and or clamps. They hold the clamp and dogs flat under pressure.
  #27   Report Post  
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Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/23/2021 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 23 May 2021 15:21:48 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 7:10 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:31:54 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:22 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:09:59 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 8:16 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 17:18:05 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 4:25 PM,
wrote:
On Thu, 20 May 2021 15:06:40 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/20/2021 2:54 PM,
wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 17:18:29 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.

BTDT. I've made more than a few things that ended up being heavier
than useful. ;-) Plywood and MDF get heavy.


And I "said" I was steering towards smaller projects.... Covid ended up
reversing the insurance only jobs after Harvey. I was not going to do
big jobs, well any jobs at insurance rates.

I built a store room at our other house about 15 years ago. I used
treated 3/4" plywood for the flooring. My dad and I could hardly carry
a single sheet to my back yard.

I have one of the Dewalt SCMS stands for my Bosch SCMS (I have a Bosch
stand for my Dewalt planer, so go figure). The brackets didn't fit
well so I built a table with some cubbyholes to store stuff in the
front and a place for a power strip and automatic DC switch in the
back. The thing is so heavy that I can't get it on or off the stand
by myself. Classic case of over-design.



If your comment was prompted by my Kapex in the picture....
I could not be happier with the Kapex, stand, and extension wings.

No, just the over-heavy projects. The Kapex is an awesome tool but I
just can't see any purpose in the _expensive_ stand. Maybe if I were
an installer but for the home? No way.

If room is not an issue I can understand a permanent, less portable set
up and location.

Put it on wheels and shove it in the corner with the rest of the large
tools if space is a problem. The Dewalt stand is very good for that,
too. I intend to use it for my HF SCMS for outdoor work. If it
rains, so what?


The Kapex stays on the portable stand and is simple to place where
needed. I once had a dedicate miter saw station and a Delta saw which
worked well but was mostly in the way 90% of the time.

The nice thing about the Kapex is that it'll go against the wall. My
Bosch takes almost as much space as my Unisaw.

The nice thing about the Kapex "set-up" is that it'll set up most
anywhere in no time, against the wall, in a tight spot for storage, or
in the middle of the shop for a few cuts.

No matter how easy it is to set up, it's even easier to bring the wood
to it.


The Kapex stand and left and right extension wings separate easily and
quickly. A single thumb screw on each wing locks the wings into place.
The wings have a single fold down pipe/bar to hold the outer end up.
They are adjusted for height with a single thumbscrew on each also.
Each wing sits/indexes/locks into a v-grove on the Kapex.
And each extension has a telescoping extension also. These extend each
side between 7~8' IIRC. So the Kapex set up can be narrow for storage
or small cuts, about 24" wide or about 16' wide with both extensions and
their extensions.

And those extensions are calibrated, have rules and stops and a ruled
stop for the telescoping extensions similar to the gold telescoping
Incra miter fence.

It takes about 2 minutes to retrieve the extensions and attach to the Kapex.

Too much? ;~)

Yes, too much (money). Kapex, yes. Stand, no.


Well the stand and extensions were pretty pricey compared to the Kapex.
Both together 3.5 years ago was just under $2600 TTL.

The Kapex is $1500, so that's $1100 for the stand. That is rather
expensive for a few pieces of bent and painted 3/4" metal conduit. ;-)

Yes it is but when it works this well....



Even worse is the router table. I looked at one of them at Highland a
few years ago (they've been closed for Covid for 15 months). The
thing was flimsy and even rocked on the floor. I'd be afraid to use
it. The fence was crap too.

For anyone but an installed, the MFT is pretty silly, IMO. It's not
very strong, seems wobbly, and the dog holes in particle board seem to
be a bad idea.

I have had a MFT for about8 years now. I like it even though it wobbles
a bit with out the leg stiffeners. And I use it a lot, and fold it up
when not in use. Plenty strong, it just wobbles. And the MDF top, not
particle board, has held up very well, the dog holes are used often and
show no signs of wear

A card table warbles a bit too. ...about the same bit.


And the card table works just fine for what it was intended. I thought
that I would have an issue with the wobble but I have never taken the
extra steps to buy or make the leg stiffeners. I really only notice the
wobble when I set the MFT up. It really does not wobble enough to be
detrimental for anything I do on it, including inlay with the Origin.


I was at Woodcraft yesterday and looked at the MFT again. It really
does look like particle board (yes, I know it's MDF). I don't like
the wobble at all. I wouldn't pay what they want for it. I certainly
don't need the mobility and that's all it's good for.


The color looked more like particle board. I don't have one that I
can look at, so thought that's what it was.

I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.


They probably last because the dogs fit well, Festool dogs. ;~) Either
way an MDF with dog holes is easier to replace than a solid wood work bench.

My question is holes or no holes. Barring a fire, comet strike, or
great flood, a _solid_ workbench will never have to be replaced. Mine
didn't cost much more than a MFT replacement top. It'll take a lot
more weight than a pile of thinwall conduit, too. Bit heavier,
though.


Soooo I have both so to speak. MY MFT has the dog holes buy my Paulk
style work bench, 40 x 96 when set up has no holes. IIRC Ron Paulk puts
holes in his benches but they are only 1/2" thick. So IMHO you would
only want to use a hold down style clamp.

I really like the dog holes in the MFT. I cut a lot of mortises with my
Domino.. I can more easily and quickly clamp a board with the Festool
Clamping element and 2 dogs on the opposite side of the board than using
a hold down clamp. This would be for mortising the ends of the stock.
With the clamping element you push a lever to lock and unlock the board.
With a hold down you have to reposition the clamp for every board.

And with the clamping elements/dogs you can hold and sand normal size
stock by clamping on the edges vs a hold down on top.

The MFT style top is something you grow into. You learn more ways to
use it for holding your work. And yes the MFT table does wobble a bit
but I only notice that if I try to wobble it. Under actual use I do not
notice the wobble at all. After all what you are doing is moving a
tool, with that in mind the table moving a little is not noticeable, at
least to me. The MFT is plenty sturdy, it just wobbles a bit.
It is not a hindrance.




Expensive, absolutely, but with excellent dust collection and ease of
set up I do not hesitate to pull it out for a couple of cuts.

I can't imagine setting it up for just a couple of cuts. I don't even
like taking the track saw out for a couple of cuts but there really
isn't an easier way. Systainers are another one of the good ideas for
installers but expensive, less than ideal, storage for everyone else.


Well there you go. A couple of cuts is not an issue for me. I make
those cuts to square stock and for when I buy stock that is too long to
comfortably cross cut on the TS.

My SCMS is always set up. I use it too often just to whack 2xs.


So on this Murphy bed project I am trimming the edges of the MDO with
poplar. I am cutting all of those pieces to length, 20 pieces and on
each end square the end, between 30 and 40 cuts. Here is the dust build
up on the Kapex so far. Zoom in on the right side of the miter scale
and near the miter lock. ;~)

I will have to admit that on the kitchen job something was not right,
IIRC there was a hunk of wood disturbing the suction path and sawdust
was considerable, considering this is a Kapex, but not now.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

I'm surprised you don't have a zero clearance insert.


I have thought about it but the bottom side of the cut is like the top,
no tear out. I only have tear out at the back fence side of the cut.



https://www.woodcraft.com/products/c...apex-miter-saw

Jury on the abstainers is still out for me. Too much expense added to
the cost of the tool. But I do like dedicated holders for my tools,
even my Shaper Origin came in a large abstainer. I feel like the
Systainers are better than what "most"of the competition is offering.
One exception is the case that came with my free Bosch impact driver.
It is square and flat. That makes storing much much easier that the
plastic injection molded cases that are round everywhere.

Blow mold cases suck worse but it would systainers would be much
better if the plastic was somewhat softer. Brittle and tools doesn't
go well.


The systainers seem brittle but I have yet to chip,crack, or break one
and my oldest are about 13 years old, and I have 10 of them.


I've never broken a blow-mold case either. That doesn't mean that
they don't suck.


I have, the hinge wore out, the thin bendable style hinge.

Besides having to pay for that case with every power tool purchase, what
exactly do you not like about them?





So the Systainers have a lot of advantages for me, they just should not
be that expensive.

For the time being they work but I plan to make them redundant.


  #28   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 12,155
Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/23/2021 4:07 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 23 May 2021 15:36:56 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 4:04 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:37:28 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

*Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.

Eighty pounds isn't as much as I thought. That's only a sheet of 3/4"
plywood. I was thinking three times that, anyway. Gas struts will
easily handle that.


Total weight for the mattress and the fold down platform are probably
close to double that.

That's still less that I thought it was going to be (twice that).

So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.

Up and out, if I understand? Is it going to need a ladder to get into
the bed?


UP only to assemble, from sitting on the floor now. After that is only
fold/pivot out.

And no, I think it will be close to normal bed height, nothing like the
beds that I build with a double stack set of drawers on the bottom.

This is the one I built 10 years ago with 10" mattress.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And closed, notice that the platform is elevated off of the floor about
4~5". That was what I was talking about above.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...n/photostream/


Ah, a dust bunny pen.


Yes, you have to clean your house now and then.
  #29   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 12,155
Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/23/2021 5:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 4:37:03 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 5/21/2021 4:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:37:28 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.

Eighty pounds isn't as much as I thought. That's only a sheet of 3/4"
plywood. I was thinking three times that, anyway. Gas struts will
easily handle that.

Total weight for the mattress and the fold down platform are probably
close to double that.

So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.

Up and out, if I understand? Is it going to need a ladder to get into
the bed?

UP only to assemble, from sitting on the floor now. After that is only
fold/pivot out.

And no, I think it will be close to normal bed height, nothing like the
beds that I build with a double stack set of drawers on the bottom.

This is the one I built 10 years ago with 10" mattress.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And closed, notice that the platform is elevated off of the floor about
4~5". That was what I was talking about above.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...n/photostream/


When are you going to build one of these?


Unless a customer wants one, probably never.

This style bed, horizontal vs. vertical is also available in a queen
IIRC. The horizontal have a larger foot print and waste more wall space
usable wall space.
That is, for the bed with out the fold out desk, more so with the desk.


This link takes you to the company that made my kit. They have a boat
load of pictures of both vertical and horizontal beds.

https://www.createabed.com/?gclid=Cj...EaAswQEALw_wcB



https://i.imgur.com/n2cM86p.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8AlasZn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XjSbmBh.jpg

There's a built-in tower on the left that you can't see.

The height of the side rails leaves about foot of space so you
don't have to clean everything off the desk.

I have seen similar fold out desks on the vertical versions too. The
link above shows them.
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 14,845
Default Murphy bed progress

On Monday, May 24, 2021 at 11:32:34 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 5/23/2021 5:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 4:37:03 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 5/21/2021 4:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:37:28 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.

Eighty pounds isn't as much as I thought. That's only a sheet of 3/4"
plywood. I was thinking three times that, anyway. Gas struts will
easily handle that.
Total weight for the mattress and the fold down platform are probably
close to double that.

So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.

Up and out, if I understand? Is it going to need a ladder to get into
the bed?

UP only to assemble, from sitting on the floor now. After that is only
fold/pivot out.

And no, I think it will be close to normal bed height, nothing like the
beds that I build with a double stack set of drawers on the bottom.

This is the one I built 10 years ago with 10" mattress.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And closed, notice that the platform is elevated off of the floor about
4~5". That was what I was talking about above.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...n/photostream/


When are you going to build one of these?

Unless a customer wants one, probably never.

This style bed, horizontal vs. vertical is also available in a queen
IIRC. The horizontal have a larger foot print and waste more wall space
usable wall space.
That is, for the bed with out the fold out desk, more so with the desk.


This link takes you to the company that made my kit. They have a boat
load of pictures of both vertical and horizontal beds.

https://www.createabed.com/?gclid=Cj...EaAswQEALw_wcB

https://i.imgur.com/n2cM86p.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8AlasZn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XjSbmBh.jpg

There's a built-in tower on the left that you can't see.

The height of the side rails leaves about foot of space so you
don't have to clean everything off the desk.

I have seen similar fold out desks on the vertical versions too. The
link above shows them.


My SIL found that bed/desk on Craigslist. Turned a small office into a
office/guestroom.

A vertical bed wouldn't fit in the room shown. In the lower right corner of
the second image you can see the left half of a suitcase and a duffel-type
bag to the left of that. The suitcase is up against the wall opposite the bed,
so you should be able to get a feel for how narrow the room is.

If I recall correctly, the unit actually came with 2 side towers, but the room
was only big enough for one.

While a horizontal bed does use more wall space, that's not the biggest issue.
The biggest issue is only having one open side. With 2 people sharing the bed,
the person on the inside has to enter/exit the bed from the end if there is a
person on the outside. Crawling into bed from the end isn't so bad when
compared to crawling out. Try that sometime. Make believe you can't leave
the bed on either side. It truly sucks.

Oh, yeah...the bed is pretty high off the floor. I used a step stool to make getting
in and out easier.


  #31   Report Post  
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Posts: 12,155
Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/24/2021 11:24 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, May 24, 2021 at 11:32:34 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 5/23/2021 5:54 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, May 23, 2021 at 4:37:03 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 5/21/2021 4:04 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 15:37:28 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/21/2021 12:24 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 21 May 2021 10:13:02 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/19/2021 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:
So the bed section, that which folds up, now only needs the hardware to
be attached, lightly sanded, and painted.

I used the Shaper Origin to cut 6 arcs on the top rails of the platform.

I used a plug-in program for Sketchup to produce the needed SVG file for
the arc.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

Glued and pinned.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And getting heavier.


Much easier to visualize now. In the room and wall that it will
eventually be located.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

I understand the concept of the Murphy bed. But it does look heavy
for even that. It's going to take some pistons to lift that.



Yes, gas struts like on GM vehicle hoods, Ford too. I built one of
these about 10 years ago with the basic same hardware from the same
company. It works well and the hardware is plenty sturdy. AND the
manufacturer has plans to build it and several parts have to made out of
3/4" plywood to prevent slitting and failure at the pressure points of
the pivot.

I am right at the 80 lb weight limit for the mattress and the company
modified the plans for me for the 14" thick mattress.

Eighty pounds isn't as much as I thought. That's only a sheet of 3/4"
plywood. I was thinking three times that, anyway. Gas struts will
easily handle that.
Total weight for the mattress and the fold down platform are probably
close to double that.

So the bed frame that pivots will be elevated up about 4" to mate the
male and female pivot hardware.

Up and out, if I understand? Is it going to need a ladder to get into
the bed?

UP only to assemble, from sitting on the floor now. After that is only
fold/pivot out.

And no, I think it will be close to normal bed height, nothing like the
beds that I build with a double stack set of drawers on the bottom.

This is the one I built 10 years ago with 10" mattress.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

And closed, notice that the platform is elevated off of the floor about
4~5". That was what I was talking about above.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...n/photostream/

When are you going to build one of these?

Unless a customer wants one, probably never.

This style bed, horizontal vs. vertical is also available in a queen
IIRC. The horizontal have a larger foot print and waste more wall space
usable wall space.
That is, for the bed with out the fold out desk, more so with the desk.


This link takes you to the company that made my kit. They have a boat
load of pictures of both vertical and horizontal beds.

https://www.createabed.com/?gclid=Cj...EaAswQEALw_wcB

https://i.imgur.com/n2cM86p.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8AlasZn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XjSbmBh.jpg

There's a built-in tower on the left that you can't see.

The height of the side rails leaves about foot of space so you
don't have to clean everything off the desk.

I have seen similar fold out desks on the vertical versions too. The
link above shows them.


My SIL found that bed/desk on Craigslist. Turned a small office into a
office/guestroom.

A vertical bed wouldn't fit in the room shown. In the lower right corner of
the second image you can see the left half of a suitcase and a duffel-type
bag to the left of that. The suitcase is up against the wall opposite the bed,
so you should be able to get a feel for how narrow the room is.

If I recall correctly, the unit actually came with 2 side towers, but the room
was only big enough for one.

While a horizontal bed does use more wall space, that's not the biggest issue.
The biggest issue is only having one open side. With 2 people sharing the bed,
the person on the inside has to enter/exit the bed from the end if there is a
person on the outside. Crawling into bed from the end isn't so bad when
compared to crawling out. Try that sometime. Make believe you can't leave
the bed on either side. It truly sucks.

Oh, yeah...the bed is pretty high off the floor. I used a step stool to make getting
in and out easier.


OH, Cool, I thought this was the internet picture of what she bought
vs. in her home.

Tall? :~)

This is ours that I build 11 years ago. The mattress top is 35" high.
My wife uses a stool.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb112...in/dateposted/

If you zoom in on the bottom right side you will notice a double deck of
drawers, 6 on this side, 6 on the opposite side, and 6 hidden in the
middle between the left and right side drawers, yes 18 drawers.

This was GREAT Until we bought Termurpedic king mattresses with the
articulating lifts for the head and feet. Guess how tall that would
have been! LOL. We moved the bottom with the drawers out for about 2
years. Last Spring I shortened the height of the bottom and drawers to
a single layer of drawers, 9 drawers now, and placed the articulating
bed frame and mattresses back on top. I had to remove the 8 extension
feet from the articulating frame so that the height is only 36". ;~)




  #32   Report Post  
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Posts: 2,833
Default Murphy bed progress

On Mon, 24 May 2021 10:07:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?


Hold linear or toggle clamps and a dog at the other end. I don't plan
on puting a vise on either bench.

If you use the Festool "clamping elements" on the 3/4" MDF surface they
will slightly tilt under pressure. But that does not hinder the use.
The dogs and the clamps have rubber pressure surfaces. AND with those
clamps mine included get large handle screws for the bottom of the dogs
and or clamps. They hold the clamp and dogs flat under pressure.


Screws on dogs? The dogs I've seen are just round metal or plastic
with a flat on the top side and maybe a spring along the dog's side to
hold them in the hole.
  #33   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 12,155
Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/24/2021 12:59 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 10:07:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?


Hold linear or toggle clamps and a dog at the other end. I don't plan
on puting a vise on either bench.


I do that all the time with the Festool dogs and clamps. On the MFT table.




If you use the Festool "clamping elements" on the 3/4" MDF surface they
will slightly tilt under pressure. But that does not hinder the use.
The dogs and the clamps have rubber pressure surfaces. AND with those
clamps mine included get large handle screws for the bottom of the dogs
and or clamps. They hold the clamp and dogs flat under pressure.


Screws on dogs? The dogs I've seen are just round metal or plastic
with a flat on the top side and maybe a spring along the dog's side to
hold them in the hole.


The dogs that come with the Festool clamps. I do also use the round SS
Parf? dogs but only on occasion. The hard surface will dent the work.
All of the horizontal Festool clamping element parts, clamp and dog have
rubber pads and are flat.

IF you want the clamp or the dog to not move you screw in the
bolt/holders into the clamp and or dog from the bottom of the MFT table.
The screw has a large ball shaped handle for easy grip.

Would pictures help?
  #34   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 2,833
Default Murphy bed progress

On Mon, 24 May 2021 16:42:03 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/24/2021 12:59 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 10:07:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?


Hold linear or toggle clamps and a dog at the other end. I don't plan
on puting a vise on either bench.


I do that all the time with the Festool dogs and clamps. On the MFT table.


Now the question, 20mm or 3/4". ;-)


If you use the Festool "clamping elements" on the 3/4" MDF surface they
will slightly tilt under pressure. But that does not hinder the use.
The dogs and the clamps have rubber pressure surfaces. AND with those
clamps mine included get large handle screws for the bottom of the dogs
and or clamps. They hold the clamp and dogs flat under pressure.


Screws on dogs? The dogs I've seen are just round metal or plastic
with a flat on the top side and maybe a spring along the dog's side to
hold them in the hole.


The dogs that come with the Festool clamps. I do also use the round SS
Parf? dogs but only on occasion. The hard surface will dent the work.
All of the horizontal Festool clamping element parts, clamp and dog have
rubber pads and are flat.


OK.

IF you want the clamp or the dog to not move you screw in the
bolt/holders into the clamp and or dog from the bottom of the MFT table.
The screw has a large ball shaped handle for easy grip.

Would pictures help?


I got it. I hadn't seen the screws on dogs. The way my bench is
constructed I think it would be a PITA. Clamps (from the bottom) are
going to be a PITA too. How do you us them on your PAULK bench?

  #35   Report Post  
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Posts: 931
Default Murphy bed progress

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:


This was GREAT Until we bought Termurpedic king mattresses with the
articulating lifts for the head and feet. Guess how tall that would
have been! LOL. We moved the bottom with the drawers out for about 2
years. Last Spring I shortened the height of the bottom and drawers
to a single layer of drawers, 9 drawers now, and placed the
articulating bed frame and mattresses back on top. I had to remove
the 8 extension feet from the articulating frame so that the height is
only 36". ;~)


Only!

Any higher and you'll have to install blinking lights so pilots don't hit
you while you're trying to sleep!

Puckdroper


  #36   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 12,155
Default Murphy bed progress

On 5/24/2021 7:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 16:42:03 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/24/2021 12:59 PM,
wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 10:07:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?

Hold linear or toggle clamps and a dog at the other end. I don't plan
on puting a vise on either bench.


I do that all the time with the Festool dogs and clamps. On the MFT table.


Now the question, 20mm or 3/4". ;-)


There is no appreciable difference.

Most of these MFT wtyle benches with holes are accurately laid out for
using dogs as stops for you track saw track. IMHO that is the most
obvious reason for snug fit dogs. Other wise a little play has never
been an issue for me.


There is also Armor Tools.

They make a MFT style work bench but it is mounted on wheels.
Something to think about, a bench on wheels will move more than a wobbly
MFT bench.

BUT the Armor bench is less expensive and has a pretty good clamp system
too. I got one of the horizontal clamps and it works well on the MFT too.


Check out their video

https://armor-tool.com/product/36x25...e-and-casters/




If you use the Festool "clamping elements" on the 3/4" MDF surface they
will slightly tilt under pressure. But that does not hinder the use.
The dogs and the clamps have rubber pressure surfaces. AND with those
clamps mine included get large handle screws for the bottom of the dogs
and or clamps. They hold the clamp and dogs flat under pressure.

Screws on dogs? The dogs I've seen are just round metal or plastic
with a flat on the top side and maybe a spring along the dog's side to
hold them in the hole.


The dogs that come with the Festool clamps. I do also use the round SS
Parf? dogs but only on occasion. The hard surface will dent the work.
All of the horizontal Festool clamping element parts, clamp and dog have
rubber pads and are flat.


OK.

IF you want the clamp or the dog to not move you screw in the
bolt/holders into the clamp and or dog from the bottom of the MFT table.
The screw has a large ball shaped handle for easy grip.

Would pictures help?


I got it. I hadn't seen the screws on dogs. The way my bench is
constructed I think it would be a PITA. Clamps (from the bottom) are
going to be a PITA too. How do you us them on your PAULK bench?


So the clamps are on top, the dog fits the hole and the retainer bolt
screws into the bottom of the dog. BUT you do not have to screw them
down. I mostly use mine just like any dog, drop it in.

I do not use them on my Paulk bench. My Paulk bench has no holes and
dogs would not work well in 1/2" material anyway so just hold down
clamps would work best.
  #37   Report Post  
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Posts: 2,833
Default Murphy bed progress

On Tue, 25 May 2021 14:48:52 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/24/2021 7:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 16:42:03 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/24/2021 12:59 PM,
wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2021 10:07:06 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/23/2021 3:35 PM,
wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2021 18:44:44 -0700 (PDT), Bob D
wrote:

On Friday, May 21, 2021 at 7:10:56 PM UTC-5, wrote:
I'm surprised the dog holes last. I have some benches made out of MDF
on solid core doors (particle board). I was planning to drill (route)
dog holes in it but was afraid they wouldn't hold up.

I wonder if the term "dog holes" are being stretched here. I think Leon uses the holes with the Festool clamps, which do not rely on the strength of the hole or having a thick table. Traditional dogs require at least 1 1/2" table thickness. I use 3/4" round dogs and hold-down clamps. I have a re-purposed dining table that has a 3/4" solid wood top. I glued pieces of 3/4" baltic birch underneath, then drilled 3/4" holes using the Leevalley 3/4" drill guide to drill the holes with a hand drill. It works really well and seems to be holding up.

Perhaps but I've seen in-line bench clamps used with MFT tables.

Two of my tables have an 1-5/8" solid core door, one with MDF and the
other, melamine, sacrificial tops. I also have a couple of 1-3/4"
maple-top benches but I'm not concerned with them yet. Yes, I'd like
to use the Festool style clamps in the MDF topped bench, if it's not
too thick, but also in-line bench clamps, dogs, and similar.



Soooo what do you need a dog to do?

Hold linear or toggle clamps and a dog at the other end. I don't plan
on puting a vise on either bench.

I do that all the time with the Festool dogs and clamps. On the MFT table.


Now the question, 20mm or 3/4". ;-)


There is no appreciable difference.

Most of these MFT wtyle benches with holes are accurately laid out for
using dogs as stops for you track saw track. IMHO that is the most
obvious reason for snug fit dogs. Other wise a little play has never
been an issue for me.


There is also Armor Tools.

They make a MFT style work bench but it is mounted on wheels.
Something to think about, a bench on wheels will move more than a wobbly
MFT bench.


Like I said, my benches are 30" doors on Kreg frames and castors. They
don't wobble at all. If all four casters are locked, it's not going
anywhere.

BUT the Armor bench is less expensive and has a pretty good clamp system
too. I got one of the horizontal clamps and it works well on the MFT too.


The butcher block top is nice. It's reasonable, too, but small.

Check out their video

https://armor-tool.com/product/36x25...e-and-casters/


I have two other 30" x 72" benches (in storage right now) with 1-3/4'
butcher block tops. Intend to put vises on them but the others were
intended to be for cutting and assembly. Right now they're holding
junk off the floor.

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