I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
would see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should be
fairly worthless there, or so I would think, so it would seem that
some sort of gluing would be necessary but how would I be able to
ensure a tight fit to the wall short of using screws with the
attendant filling problem? Or am I just looking at this all wrong?

Practical advice is needed. Thank you in advance.

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 5:01:10 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
would see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should be
fairly worthless there, or so I would think, so it would seem that
some sort of gluing would be necessary but how would I be able to
ensure a tight fit to the wall short of using screws with the
attendant filling problem? Or am I just looking at this all wrong?

Practical advice is needed. Thank you in advance.

O.K. Just a Thought I have used these Made by GRK available at True value
They hold well and have about a 1/8-3/16 head with a torx .
You can easily drill a 1/4 ' pilot hole 1/4' deep in Your molding or baseboard and Screw it in it will easily self tap into sheet metal and conceal with wood filler Just a bit larger than a large finish nail.
If I'm correctly understanding Your aplication and What You may be up against these may work for You.
Here is just a Pic on another website. The GRK web adress is painfully long.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/TrapEase...50VG/300227399

I Dunno OFWW if this helps You any!
rick B.

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 5:01:10 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
would see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should be
fairly worthless there, or so I would think, so it would seem that
some sort of gluing would be necessary but how would I be able to
ensure a tight fit to the wall short of using screws with the
attendant filling problem? Or am I just looking at this all wrong?

Practical advice is needed. Thank you in advance.

Correction on the Pilot hole size Sometimes the heads will self bury but they can pressure chip the wood. I suggest with this application find the smallest head size and drill it size accordingly.
rick B.

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 4:01:10 PM UTC-5, OFWW wrote:
I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
would see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should be
fairly worthless there, or so I would think, so it would seem that
some sort of gluing would be necessary but how would I be able to
ensure a tight fit to the wall short of using screws with the
attendant filling problem? Or am I just looking at this all wrong?

Practical advice is needed. Thank you in advance.

I am finishing up a dental clinic with this same situation. Usually, we put a rubber or vinyl "sanitary base" at this detail, but in the owner's office, he wanted something that looked a little less commercial and sterile.

As I have done in the past, I glue the moldings on. I buy the appropriate trim in mdf, not pine, as it conforms more easily to the shape of the wall. I put a small "Hershey's kiss" of liquid nails on the top and bottom of the trim every 12" or so. I mark the face of the trim with a pencil mark so I don't have to remember where my glue is when nailing.

I press the molding in place, the using a long brad (for me since I am going into 5/8" sheet rock) I shoot a brad at an obtuse angle, about 45 degrees.. I shoot one at the top, then one farther down at the opposite angle, forming an "X". The lower brad is shot to be just over the top of the track, or channel that holds the studs. For small pieces, one brad will usually do the trick. The brads are there to hold the molding in place until the adhesive cures, and once the adhesive is cured, the molding will not come off without tearing up the sheet rock.

Been doing it this way for years, never had a fail. And if you are painting this wall and trim detail, you will no doubt caulk the top of the trim, adding more adhesive to the detail.

As a sidebar, I put about 250' of chair rail up at the same place, and instead of liquid nails I used a OK quality of painter's acrylic caulk. The process is the same, but in this case if I got a bit of squeeze out, I could wipe it off easily with a damp rag.

Since I do a lot of remodeling and repairs, I have come to respect caulk as an adhesive after taking a lot of details apart only to find the whole mess was held together by nothing more than caulk. A surprise for me, but when thinking about it, some of those joints were decades old when I got to them, and they hadn't failed, either.

So if it were me, thinking squeeze out, I would probably use caulk on the base, too. If you are unsure, make it bulletproof and use liquid nails.

Robert

On Thu, 10 May 2018 14:01:08 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
would see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should be
fairly worthless there, or so I would think, so it would seem that
some sort of gluing would be necessary but how would I be able to
ensure a tight fit to the wall short of using screws with the
attendant filling problem? Or am I just looking at this all wrong?

Practical advice is needed. Thank you in advance.

If the drywall is on this will not work, putting some 2x4 blocking in
bottom of the wall before the drywall.

Gluing "tacking with a few finish nail til the glue dries" would work,
aim above the bottom steel stud.

Most commercial install use that vinyl glue on stuff.

On Thu, 10 May 2018 20:51:44 -0500, Markem
wrote:

On Thu, 10 May 2018 14:01:08 -0700, OFWW
wrote:

I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
would see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should be
fairly worthless there, or so I would think, so it would seem that
some sort of gluing would be necessary but how would I be able to
ensure a tight fit to the wall short of using screws with the
attendant filling problem? Or am I just looking at this all wrong?

Practical advice is needed. Thank you in advance.

If the drywall is on this will not work, putting some 2x4 blocking in
bottom of the wall before the drywall.


Grinning, I thought about that a week after I did it.

Gluing "tacking with a few finish nail til the glue dries" would work,
aim above the bottom steel stud.

Most commercial install use that vinyl glue on stuff.

Thanks

On Thu, 10 May 2018 16:55:51 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 4:01:10 PM UTC-5, OFWW wrote:
I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
would see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should be
fairly worthless there, or so I would think, so it would seem that
some sort of gluing would be necessary but how would I be able to
ensure a tight fit to the wall short of using screws with the
attendant filling problem? Or am I just looking at this all wrong?

Practical advice is needed. Thank you in advance.

I am finishing up a dental clinic with this same situation. Usually, we put a rubber or vinyl "sanitary base" at this detail, but in the owner's office, he wanted something that looked a little less commercial and sterile.

As I have done in the past, I glue the moldings on. I buy the appropriate trim in mdf, not pine, as it conforms more easily to the shape of the wall. I put a small "Hershey's kiss" of liquid nails on the top and bottom of the trim every 12" or so. I mark the face of the trim with a pencil mark so I don't have to remember where my glue is when nailing.

I press the molding in place, the using a long brad (for me since I am going into 5/8" sheet rock) I shoot a brad at an obtuse angle, about 45 degrees. I shoot one at the top, then one farther down at the opposite angle, forming an "X". The lower brad is shot to be just over the top of the track, or channel that holds the studs. For small pieces, one brad will usually do the trick. The brads are there to hold the molding in place until the adhesive cures, and once the adhesive is cured, the molding will not come off without tearing up the sheet rock.

Been doing it this way for years, never had a fail. And if you are painting this wall and trim detail, you will no doubt caulk the top of the trim, adding more adhesive to the detail.

As a sidebar, I put about 250' of chair rail up at the same place, and instead of liquid nails I used a OK quality of painter's acrylic caulk. The process is the same, but in this case if I got a bit of squeeze out, I could wipe it off easily with a damp rag.

Since I do a lot of remodeling and repairs, I have come to respect caulk as an adhesive after taking a lot of details apart only to find the whole mess was held together by nothing more than caulk. A surprise for me, but when thinking about it, some of those joints were decades old when I got to them, and they hadn't failed, either.

So if it were me, thinking squeeze out, I would probably use caulk on the base, too. If you are unsure, make it bulletproof and use liquid nails.

Robert

Thanks Robert, The nails only into the drywall, not the sheet metal
makes sense especially with Caulk. I have some liquid nails but the
consistency is a bit thinker. I am using that for the "wood" floor
molding in the doorway to the hall, on top of concrete slab.

Much appreciated.

On Thu, 10 May 2018 16:48:12 -0700 (PDT), Rick the antique guy
wrote:

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 5:01:10 PM UTC-4, OFWW wrote:
I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
would see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should be
fairly worthless there, or so I would think, so it would seem that
some sort of gluing would be necessary but how would I be able to
ensure a tight fit to the wall short of using screws with the
attendant filling problem? Or am I just looking at this all wrong?

Practical advice is needed. Thank you in advance.

Correction on the Pilot hole size Sometimes the heads will self bury but they can pressure chip the wood. I suggest with this application find the smallest head size and drill it size accordingly.
rick B.

Thanks Rick, I'll be keeping those in mind, With those I wouldn't even
need glue of any type. For now I'll be going with nailshooters plan.

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 9:16:50 PM UTC-5, OFWW wrote:

Thanks Robert, The nails only into the drywall, not the sheet metal
makes sense especially with Caulk. I have some liquid nails but the
consistency is a bit thinker. I am using that for the "wood" floor
molding in the doorway to the hall, on top of concrete slab.

Much appreciated.

Hope it helps! Like I said, never a failure yet (knocking on wood)and I have to make sure of my installs since I have to warrant them.

Not to be arbitrary, but if you are doing this again, I wouldn't use screws for the trim install, and wouldn't block between the studs. Both take too long. As for the screws, it is a great idea for a few feet of trim. But you need to have the "feel" for the tool to make sure you don't overdrive the screws. Some bite hard, and since those are made for wood use (note: coarse threads) they strip easily in metal. It is too hard while crawling on your hands and knees to get every screw "just right".

As for blocking between each and every stud... takes too long. You cut every block, then screw it into the metal studs with four screws. And as you have seen, every metal stud has a curl on the open side on each edge which actually makes it more of a purlin/purling than a stud. This folded edge will cause your stud blocks to go in unevenly, and generally be a pain in the ass. You spend more time blocking out than you do framing and trim installation.

So if you feel that you need some wood backing for some reason, try this: if you are using 1/2" sheet rock, run a 3 1/2" band of plywood around the bottom of the wall before you install the rock. Pop a line so it is straight, and you can use it as a ledger board to help hold he rock in place while you secure it. Put your cut to the bottom (you will be cutting 3 1/2" off the rock to accommodate the ledger) so factory is up making a clean joint. So now you have 3 1/2" of solid plywood to attach your base to, and if you put a 4" base on it, the joint will be covered up as well as the raw plywood. A time saving advantage is that you put the plywood strips up in 8' sections, so most rooms only need one, maybe two cuts per side. Goes up quick. Likewise, you can adjust your measurements if you are using 5/8" rock. Just use 5/8" plywood. One sheet will give you a couple of miles of backing when ripping 3 1/2" strips.

And one more thought while I am rattling on... Liquid Nails is a great "go to" adhesive for a lot of things. I use A LOT of it. But I have not always found it to be waterproof, regardless of the manufacturer's claims. If you are using the LN "heavy duty" on your floor trim you should be fine. If you are going to buy some adhesive, look around for PL400 all weather sub floor adhesive. It is made for extreme temp fluctuations and has good elasticity. Since it is actually a polyurethane based adhesive, it is almost impervious to water. And unlike LN, it is specifically designed for gluing dissimilar materials such as wood to concrete. It's usually about the same price, about $4 a tube.

Hope you come back and let us know how the caulk "X" nail plan turns out for you.

Robert

On Thu, 10 May 2018 21:35:05 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 9:16:50 PM UTC-5, OFWW wrote:

Thanks Robert, The nails only into the drywall, not the sheet metal
makes sense especially with Caulk. I have some liquid nails but the
consistency is a bit thinker. I am using that for the "wood" floor
molding in the doorway to the hall, on top of concrete slab.

Much appreciated.

Hope it helps! Like I said, never a failure yet (knocking on wood)and I have to make sure of my installs since I have to warrant them.

Not to be arbitrary, but if you are doing this again, I wouldn't use screws for the trim install, and wouldn't block between the studs. Both take too long. As for the screws, it is a great idea for a few feet of trim. But you need to have the "feel" for the tool to make sure you don't overdrive the screws. Some bite hard, and since those are made for wood use (note: coarse threads) they strip easily in metal. It is too hard while crawling on your hands and knees to get every screw "just right".

As for blocking between each and every stud... takes too long. You cut every block, then screw it into the metal studs with four screws. And as you have seen, every metal stud has a curl on the open side on each edge which actually makes it more of a purlin/purling than a stud. This folded edge will cause your stud blocks to go in unevenly, and generally be a pain in the ass. You spend more time blocking out than you do framing and trim installation.

So if you feel that you need some wood backing for some reason, try this: if you are using 1/2" sheet rock, run a 3 1/2" band of plywood around the bottom of the wall before you install the rock. Pop a line so it is straight, and you can use it as a ledger board to help hold he rock in place while you secure it. Put your cut to the bottom (you will be cutting 3 1/2" off the rock to accommodate the ledger) so factory is up making a clean joint. So now you have 3 1/2" of solid plywood to attach your base to, and if you put a 4" base on it, the joint will be covered up as well as the raw plywood. A time saving advantage is that you put the plywood strips up in 8' sections, so most rooms only need one, maybe two cuts per side. Goes up quick. Likewise, you can adjust your measurements if you are using 5/8" rock. Just use 5/8" plywood. One sheet will give you a couple of miles of backing when ripping 3 1/2" strips.

And one more thought while I am rattling on... Liquid Nails is a great "go to" adhesive for a lot of things. I use A LOT of it. But I have not always found it to be waterproof, regardless of the manufacturer's claims. If you are using the LN "heavy duty" on your floor trim you should be fine. If you are going to buy some adhesive, look around for PL400 all weather sub floor adhesive. It is made for extreme temp fluctuations and has good elasticity. Since it is actually a polyurethane based adhesive, it is almost impervious to water. And unlike LN, it is specifically designed for gluing dissimilar materials such as wood to concrete. It's usually about the same price, about $4 a tube.

Hope you come back and let us know how the caulk "X" nail plan turns out for you.

Robert

Thanks for the great advice, I think I'll store my liquid nails a
little longer and try your advice on the PL400 also. I hope to have my
molding up by this week end and will reply back as to how it went.

I also appreciate the time you took with this and hope it will also
help others.

On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 12:35:08 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 9:16:50 PM UTC-5, OFWW wrote:

Thanks Robert, The nails only into the drywall, not the sheet metal
makes sense especially with Caulk. I have some liquid nails but the
consistency is a bit thinker. I am using that for the "wood" floor
molding in the doorway to the hall, on top of concrete slab.

Much appreciated.

Hope it helps! Like I said, never a failure yet (knocking on wood)and I have to make sure of my installs since I have to warrant them.

Not to be arbitrary, but if you are doing this again, I wouldn't use screws for the trim install, and wouldn't block between the studs. Both take too long. As for the screws, it is a great idea for a few feet of trim. But you need to have the "feel" for the tool to make sure you don't overdrive the screws. Some bite hard, and since those are made for wood use (note: coarse threads) they strip easily in metal. It is too hard while crawling on your hands and knees to get every screw "just right".

As for blocking between each and every stud... takes too long. You cut every block, then screw it into the metal studs with four screws. And as you have seen, every metal stud has a curl on the open side on each edge which actually makes it more of a purlin/purling than a stud. This folded edge will cause your stud blocks to go in unevenly, and generally be a pain in the ass. You spend more time blocking out than you do framing and trim installation.

So if you feel that you need some wood backing for some reason, try this: if you are using 1/2" sheet rock, run a 3 1/2" band of plywood around the bottom of the wall before you install the rock. Pop a line so it is straight, and you can use it as a ledger board to help hold he rock in place while you secure it. Put your cut to the bottom (you will be cutting 3 1/2" off the rock to accommodate the ledger) so factory is up making a clean joint. So now you have 3 1/2" of solid plywood to attach your base to, and if you put a 4" base on it, the joint will be covered up as well as the raw plywood. A time saving advantage is that you put the plywood strips up in 8' sections, so most rooms only need one, maybe two cuts per side. Goes up quick. Likewise, you can adjust your measurements if you are using 5/8" rock. Just use 5/8" plywood. One sheet will give you a couple of miles of backing when ripping 3 1/2" strips.


I'm sure I could check this out myself, but it's easier to just ask. ;-)

Is 1/2" (5/8") drywall then same thickness as 1/2" (5/8") plywood or at least close enough for
this application?

I know that 1/2" (5/8") plywood really isn't 1/2" (5/8"). Is drywall?

On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 5:28:09 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Is 1/2" (5/8") drywall then same thickness as 1/2" (5/8") plywood or at least close enough for
this application?

I know that 1/2" (5/8") plywood really isn't 1/2" (5/8"). Is drywall?

No, but they are both similarly smaller, so the plan works. It is important though, if you install as I described that you put the cut side on top of the plywood. That way your molding will sit flat on the plywood "ledger", and the molding will cover the joint. If you put the bevel side from the factory you will have a difference in thickness immediately where the rock sits on the ledger, which in turn will cause your molding to sit at an angle when bridging or covering the joint of the rock and plywood.

If you are running your sheets parallel to the floor and you put the /factory/ edge on top of the ledger you will have the bevel edge which is thinner as it is made to receive tape/mud. Then you would see a big difference, and you would be forced to mud the joint to fill in the bevel.

Robert

"OFWW" wrote in message ...

I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should be
fairly worthless there, or so I would think, so it would seem that
some sort of gluing would be necessary but how would I be able to
ensure a tight fit to the wall short of using screws with the
attendant filling problem? Or am I just looking at this all wrong?

Practical advice is needed. Thank you in advance.


Use trim screws... they are designed for this. They have a very small head
and the trim can be filled like it was a finish nail.

For example

https://www.fastenersuperstore.com/p...RoCge8QAvD_BwE

On 5/11/18 10:57 AM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"OFWW" wrote in message
...

I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should
be fairly worthless there, or so I would think, so it would seem
that some sort of gluing would be necessary but how would I be able
to ensure a tight fit to the wall short of using screws with the
attendant filling problem? Or am I just looking at this all wrong?

Practical advice is needed. Thank you in advance.


Use trim screws... they are designed for this. They have a very small
head and the trim can be filled like it was a finish nail.

For example

https://www.fastenersuperstore.com/p...RoCge8QAvD_BwE



That's what I was thinking. You're filling either nail heads or screw
heads-- same amount of work.
X-nailing in the sheetrock will suffice where there is no stud.
IIRC, metal stud construction still has a sole plate to screw into.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 2:01:10 PM UTC-7, OFWW wrote:
I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
would see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should be
fairly worthless there

Maybe not. The classic molding of yesteryear was a rectangular
board that didn't follow the curvature of the wall, or the
dips and warps of the floorboards, but you can hide the cracks
at the floor with a quarter-round 'shoe mold', and the cracks
at the wall are covered with a decorative top trim (both the shoe
mold and the top trim are flexible and DO follow the curvature).
So, it's a matter of attachiing the board (glue, or screws into the metal studs),
and then the shoe and top trim can be pinned to the board; those
pneumatic pin nailers work well for this.

Regular old plaster walls didn't take nails well, either.

On Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 12:28:05 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 2:01:10 PM UTC-7, OFWW wrote:
I have a new wall dividing a room made with steel studs, like you
would see on most commercial jobs.

Problem is with the floor molding attachment. I know nails should be
fairly worthless there

Maybe not. The classic molding of yesteryear was a rectangular
board that didn't follow the curvature of the wall, or the
dips and warps of the floorboards, but you can hide the cracks
at the floor with a quarter-round 'shoe mold', and the cracks
at the wall are covered with a decorative top trim (both the shoe
mold and the top trim are flexible and DO follow the curvature).
So, it's a matter of attachiing the board (glue, or screws into the metal studs),
and then the shoe and top trim can be pinned to the board; those
pneumatic pin nailers work well for this.

Regular old plaster walls didn't take nails well, either.

They still don't. Nor are they flat.