Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
1ft. sidelights.
Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.

Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
it cool.
So, I'm looking into it.

What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?

I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
that the reason for the high bid?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
1ft. sidelights.
Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.

Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
it cool.
So, I'm looking into it.

What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?

Penetrating epoxy sealer underneath Epifanes marine varnish performed very well according to a FWW article from several years ago. Issue #205

I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
that the reason for the high bid?

Probably 3 or 4 coats of varnish I'd guess. If you have a sprayer it doesn't take much actual time - but it's like a full day in between coats.

On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 5:11:41 PM UTC-5, Jay Pique wrote:
On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
1ft. sidelights.
Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.

Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
it cool.
So, I'm looking into it.

What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?

Penetrating epoxy sealer underneath Epifanes marine varnish performed very well according to a FWW article from several years ago. Issue #205

I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
that the reason for the high bid?

Probably 3 or 4 coats of varnish I'd guess. If you have a sprayer it doesn't take much actual time - but it's like a full day in between coats.

Ooops - I overlooked that it's already installed. That's not ideal....

On 1/28/18 4:11 PM, Jay Pique wrote:
On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
1ft. sidelights.
Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.

Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
it cool.
So, I'm looking into it.

What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?

Penetrating epoxy sealer underneath Epifanes marine varnish performed very well according to a FWW article from several years ago. Issue #205


I just read that article. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 14:11:39 -0800 (PST), Jay Pique
wrote:

On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
1ft. sidelights.
Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.

Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
it cool.
So, I'm looking into it.

What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?

Penetrating epoxy sealer underneath Epifanes marine varnish performed very well according to a FWW article from several years ago. Issue #205

I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
that the reason for the high bid?

Probably 3 or 4 coats of varnish I'd guess. If you have a sprayer it doesn't take much actual time - but it's like a full day in between coats.

I'd say find out what the other guys are bidding. Might be Awlgrip or
the like, which you do _not_ want to spray if you don't know how to
protect yourself.

On 1/28/2018 4:25 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed.Â* Typical 3-footer with
1ft. sidelights.
Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.

Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
it cool.
So, I'm looking into it.

What am I missing, here?Â* Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
What's the best finish to use?Â* Spar Varnish?

I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
that the reason for the high bid?



My guess is the guy sized up the customer. I've know tradesmen that
doubled their price if the customer was a doctor or lawyer, added 50%
for anyone driving a fancy car.

I can see $600+ though. Couple of hours for each of three trips. 2
hours on site, travel, only a half day for other work.

On 1/28/2018 3:25 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed.Â* Typical 3-footer with
1ft. sidelights.
Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.

Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
it cool.
So, I'm looking into it.

What am I missing, here?Â* Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
What's the best finish to use?Â* Spar Varnish?

I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
that the reason for the high bid?




In Houston they are charging $4~$600, sand and refinish.

This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran into over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my wife's dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I *think* they are acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off and the cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free hanging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How much will that cost?"

Let your mind wonder.

So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do, I would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been asked?) What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to be puttied, have surface work done? Does it have panels? How many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily or will it have to be taped off?

What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of oil based products will linger in the house for days. Some people have now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on delirium. With that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to take the door off and take it to his shop for finishing to get that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a plywood barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site. Some of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick up the door, block the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then return in a week with a finished door that I put back up and install the hardware and it's finished.

So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on or off site finish, and how will it be applied?

Robert

On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, wrote:
This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran into
over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my wife's
dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I *think* they are
acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be tile over plywood.
Also, I need the walls stripped off and the cabinets removed so I
can upgrade the walls to new hold new free hanging cabinets. Oh
yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How much will that cost?"

Let your mind wonder.

So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do, I
would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been asked?)
What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to be puttied,
have surface work done? Does it have panels? How many? Does it
have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily or will it have to
be taped off?


Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)

Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not sure
why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including glass
sidelights. Probably taped off.


What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of oil
based products will linger in the house for days. Some people have
now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on delirium. With
that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to take the door off
and take it to his shop for finishing to get that "factory" finish.
If so, like me he probably puts a plywood barrier across the door
hole while the actual door is off site. Some of my clients have
loved the convenience of having me pick up the door, block the entry
and be gone in 30 minutes, then return in a week with a finished door
that I put back up and install the hardware and it's finished.

So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on or
off site finish, and how will it be applied?

Robert


I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the frame
and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly installed and
raw mahogany.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, wrote:
This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran into
over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my wife's
dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I *think* they are
acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be tile over plywood.
Also, I need the walls stripped off and the cabinets removed so I
can upgrade the walls to new hold new free hanging cabinets. Oh
yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How much will that cost?"

Let your mind wonder.

So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do, I
would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been asked?)
What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to be puttied,
have surface work done? Does it have panels? How many? Does it
have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily or will it have to
be taped off?


Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)

Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not sure
why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including glass
sidelights. Probably taped off.


What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of oil
based products will linger in the house for days. Some people have
now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on delirium. With
that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to take the door off
and take it to his shop for finishing to get that "factory" finish.
If so, like me he probably puts a plywood barrier across the door
hole while the actual door is off site. Some of my clients have
loved the convenience of having me pick up the door, block the entry
and be gone in 30 minutes, then return in a week with a finished door
that I put back up and install the hardware and it's finished.

So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on or
off site finish, and how will it be applied?

Robert


I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the frame
and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly installed and
raw mahogany.


Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:02:26 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?

Yes, depending on what is being done. When I retrofit a door it is always unfinished. That allows for the door to be trimmed, fitted, bored, mortised etc., to get a good fit. It isn't necessarily the cutting, chiseling, etc.., that is done to fit the door to the opening but to allow for all the handing needed to do so.

OTOH, if I am putting in a new door, jamb, trims, etc., with a door prehung in a jamb, I finish the door off site and put it in the frame and take it to the job to hang. All it needs is just one coat of paint on the trim/jamb after hanging and caulking.

Most of my retrofits of "door only" are almost always wood since you can't trim (of course you can a bit) a metal or fiberglass door to fit an existing jamb. We have a lot of soil movement here, so by the time the folks need a new door, the jamb can be all kinds of out of square and plumb requiring a lot of fitting.

Robert

On 1/29/18 2:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, wrote:
This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran
into over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my
wife's dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I
*think* they are acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be
tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off and the
cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free
hanging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How
much will that cost?"

Let your mind wonder.

So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do,
I would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been
asked?) What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to
be puttied, have surface work done? Does it have panels? How
many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily
or will it have to be taped off?


Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)

Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not
sure why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including
glass sidelights. Probably taped off.


What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of
oil based products will linger in the house for days. Some
people have now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on
delirium. With that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to
take the door off and take it to his shop for finishing to get
that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a plywood
barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site.
Some of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick
up the door, block the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then
return in a week with a finished door that I put back up and
install the hardware and it's finished.

So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on
or off site finish, and how will it be applied?

Robert


I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the
frame and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly
installed and raw mahogany.


Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?


I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:30:40 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.


So it is installed and you would be weather dependent to finish it, or
you could build a plastic tent and that entails cost. If you have
scaffolding then it can makes a great tent, heating it though????

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 3:30:46 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/29/18 2:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, wrote:
This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran
into over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my
wife's dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I
*think* they are acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be
tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off and the
cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free
hanging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How
much will that cost?"

Let your mind wonder.

So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do,
I would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been
asked?) What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to
be puttied, have surface work done? Does it have panels? How
many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily
or will it have to be taped off?


Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)

Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not
sure why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including
glass sidelights. Probably taped off.


What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of
oil based products will linger in the house for days. Some
people have now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on
delirium. With that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to
take the door off and take it to his shop for finishing to get
that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a plywood
barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site.
Some of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick
up the door, block the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then
return in a week with a finished door that I put back up and
install the hardware and it's finished.

So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on
or off site finish, and how will it be applied?

Robert


I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the
frame and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly
installed and raw mahogany.


Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?


I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

I'm trying to think of a "logical" reason why they would install an entirely new wood door system without finishing first. Having trouble...

JP

Jay Pique writes:
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 3:30:46 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/29/18 2:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, wrote:
This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran
into over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my
wife's dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I
*think* they are acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be
tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off and the
cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free
hanging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How
much will that cost?"

Let your mind wonder.

So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do,
I would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been
asked?) What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to
be puttied, have surface work done? Does it have panels? How
many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily
or will it have to be taped off?


Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)

Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not
sure why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including
glass sidelights. Probably taped off.


What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of
oil based products will linger in the house for days. Some
people have now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on
delirium. With that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to
take the door off and take it to his shop for finishing to get
that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a plywood
barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site.
Some of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick
up the door, block the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then
return in a week with a finished door that I put back up and
install the hardware and it's finished.

So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on
or off site finish, and how will it be applied?

Robert


I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the
frame and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly
installed and raw mahogany.


Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?


I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

I'm trying to think of a "logical" reason why they would install an entirely new wood door system without finishing first. Having trouble...

Perhaps because it's not real wood? I've seen expensive "mahogany" entry
doors made from a molded fibreglass that needs to be finished using
a special finish from the door manufacturer.

On 1/29/18 3:34 PM, Markem wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:30:40 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:

I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.


So it is installed and you would be weather dependent to finish it, or
you could build a plastic tent and that entails cost. If you have
scaffolding then it can makes a great tent, heating it though????


Exactly. It's actually under an overhang which would make tarping it
off pretty easy.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/29/2018 3:35 PM, Jay Pique wrote:
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 3:30:46 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/29/18 2:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, wrote:
This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran
into over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my
wife's dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I
*think* they are acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be
tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off and the
cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free
hanging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How
much will that cost?"

Let your mind wonder.

So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do,
I would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been
asked?) What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to
be puttied, have surface work done? Does it have panels? How
many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily
or will it have to be taped off?


Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)

Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not
sure why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including
glass sidelights. Probably taped off.


What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of
oil based products will linger in the house for days. Some
people have now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on
delirium. With that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to
take the door off and take it to his shop for finishing to get
that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a plywood
barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site.
Some of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick
up the door, block the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then
return in a week with a finished door that I put back up and
install the hardware and it's finished.

So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on
or off site finish, and how will it be applied?

Robert


I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the
frame and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly
installed and raw mahogany.


Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?


I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

I'm trying to think of a "logical" reason why they would install an entirely new wood door system without finishing first. Having trouble...

JP

Some people wait way too long to refinish and the door begins to fall
apart. Or they want a different style.

On 1/29/18 3:40 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Jay Pique writes:
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 3:30:46 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/29/18 2:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, wrote:
This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran
into over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my
wife's dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I
*think* they are acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be
tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off and the
cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free
hanging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How
much will that cost?"

Let your mind wonder.

So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do,
I would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been
asked?) What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to
be puttied, have surface work done? Does it have panels? How
many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily
or will it have to be taped off?


Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)

Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not
sure why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including
glass sidelights. Probably taped off.


What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of
oil based products will linger in the house for days. Some
people have now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on
delirium. With that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to
take the door off and take it to his shop for finishing to get
that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a plywood
barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site.
Some of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick
up the door, block the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then
return in a week with a finished door that I put back up and
install the hardware and it's finished.

So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on
or off site finish, and how will it be applied?

Robert


I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the
frame and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly
installed and raw mahogany.


Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?


I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.


I'm trying to think of a "logical" reason why they would install an entirely new wood door system without finishing first. Having trouble...

Perhaps because it's not real wood? I've seen expensive "mahogany" entry
doors made from a molded fibreglass that needs to be finished using
a special finish from the door manufacturer.


It's wood.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

Back on the subject of price. I guess it depends on how you charge and what you charge for your time.

If you are finishing in place there will be a lot of travel time and unless you are up to speed on taping off each lite separately, the all the time that it takes to cut around said lites, I would be careful on my estimates. I would want to have my finish in mind, too. I have put on too much "fast dry" clear coating that didn't. You will be able to go around the jamb/trim pretty quick, and build multiple coats.

DEPENDING ON THE FINISH CHOSEN, I could see somewhere around $1200. Dust control? Multiple coats? Floor/wall protection? Removing hardware (dead bolt, lockset, peep hole, interior chain/lever, etc.) and reinstalling it later each time? How many coats, how many trips?

For poly/varnish/and the other similar finishes, 8 hours is dry to the touch but will often stay sticky. Closing the door on a jamb coated at the same time will cause fouling of the finish sometimes after 10 hours.

I like to use the polyurethane conversion lacquers, but those are all sprayed. I don't like to hand cut in around door lites, I don't like to screw with hardware coming off and reinstalling, and I hate multiple trips for the same task. If you can block off enough to spray, you could get three coats of one of the poly convertibles on in a day. I have done as many as five..

I would be more involved in trying to figure out my time based on the finish used and job site conditions than I would the actual finishing. You got the finishing. IF the door had a lot of lites, and IF they wanted the inside finished to match, and IF I had to fill nail holes and sand out scuffs, I could see $1200 for a PREMIUM finish. I would probably have trips to the site to do all the prep, remove the hardware, cover the floors/concrete/porch mateiral and apply the finish, and return later to reinstall the hardware and pick up my drop cloths, etc. as long after product application as possible. Three coats? Six trips.

That being said, I spray new metal/fiberglass doors with another specialty product (commercial use fast dry) enamel on occasion with two coats of paint and I only charge $500 and try to sell the client new hardware to bump the price a bit. The enamel I use gets so hard (if properly applied) that you can't scratch it with your fingernail and it holds up great. I wish I could stock up on it; my Sherwin Williams rep told me they are going to quit selling the product to the public, if they haven't already. Too many VOCs.

So just as a talking point, what is your "per pass" side charge on a brushed door with 6 - 8 panels, no windows or lites, pre-primed or already painted? Talking minor prep, painted in place or int the client garage.

Robert

On 1/29/18 5:28 PM, wrote:
Back on the subject of price. I guess it depends on how you charge
and what you charge for your time.

If you are finishing in place there will be a lot of travel time and
unless you are up to speed on taping off each lite separately, the
all the time that it takes to cut around said lites, I would be
careful on my estimates. I would want to have my finish in mind,
too. I have put on too much "fast dry" clear coating that didn't.
You will be able to go around the jamb/trim pretty quick, and build
multiple coats.

DEPENDING ON THE FINISH CHOSEN, I could see somewhere around $1200.
Dust control? Multiple coats? Floor/wall protection? Removing
hardware (dead bolt, lockset, peep hole, interior chain/lever, etc.)
and reinstalling it later each time? How many coats, how many
trips?

For poly/varnish/and the other similar finishes, 8 hours is dry to
the touch but will often stay sticky. Closing the door on a jamb
coated at the same time will cause fouling of the finish sometimes
after 10 hours.

I like to use the polyurethane conversion lacquers, but those are
all sprayed. I don't like to hand cut in around door lites, I don't
like to screw with hardware coming off and reinstalling, and I hate
multiple trips for the same task. If you can block off enough to
spray, you could get three coats of one of the poly convertibles on
in a day. I have done as many as five.

I would be more involved in trying to figure out my time based on
the finish used and job site conditions than I would the actual
finishing. You got the finishing. IF the door had a lot of lites,
and IF they wanted the inside finished to match, and IF I had to
fill nail holes and sand out scuffs, I could see $1200 for a PREMIUM
finish. I would probably have trips to the site to do all the
prep, remove the hardware, cover the floors/concrete/porch mateiral
and apply the finish, and return later to reinstall the hardware and
pick up my drop cloths, etc. as long after product application as
possible. Three coats? Six trips.

That being said, I spray new metal/fiberglass doors with another
specialty product (commercial use fast dry) enamel on occasion with
two coats of paint and I only charge $500 and try to sell the client
new hardware to bump the price a bit. The enamel I use gets so hard
(if properly applied) that you can't scratch it with your fingernail
and it holds up great. I wish I could stock up on it; my Sherwin
Williams rep told me they are going to quit selling the product to
the public, if they haven't already. Too many VOCs.

So just as a talking point, what is your "per pass" side charge on a
brushed door with 6 - 8 panels, no windows or lites, pre-primed or
already painted? Talking minor prep, painted in place or int the
client garage.

Robert


Great info!
I guess it's not that unreasonable after all.
Like I tell often my clients, "There's often a lot more to doing
something than most people who are inexperienced at doing it realize."

Two things I hate doing.
1. Being tempted to take shortcuts and rush because I'm not making
enough on a job.
2. Not making enough on a job.

Sounds like, if I use the proper material, that I might be able to bang
this out in a couple days, having a third, short visit for the final coat.

They only aspect of this job that still makes me tempted to do it is
that the client is right down the street from me.

I will probably tell them that after further research that the $1200
they were quoted is not unreasonable *if* the guy does excellent work.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 6:31:02 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

Two things I hate doing.
1. Being tempted to take shortcuts and rush because I'm not making
enough on a job.
2. Not making enough on a job.

I couldn't agree more. Sometimes I labor over the details of a job so much that I drive myself nuts. I want a very good job from myself, and seriously, my standards are a light higher than my client's are sometimes. I have pride in my work, but also don't need anyone telling someone I do substandard work. ALL of my work right now is word of mouth and has been for some time.

At this point, I don't need the practice. I kick myself in the ass if I don't make enough, and try to figure out at the end one of two things: 1) did I just miss the labor, materials and processes and bid to cheap? and 2) did I not understand the job well enough to bid it properly?

I know I will NEVER get rich doing what I do, but I don't have to starve, either.

Sounds like, if I use the proper material, that I might be able to bang
this out in a couple days, having a third, short visit for the final coat..

They only aspect of this job that still makes me tempted to do it is
that the client is right down the street from me.

That might be the key. You could get there early put a coat on and come by late. To put on the hardware for the night. Still... 3-4 hours to prep the door (sand, tape off the lites)and fill the holes. Wait until the putty dries so you don't dissolve it, and since a coat won't dry in 4-5 hours, you come back the next day. Take off the hardware, put up your dust barrier, and coat the door and trims. 3 hours by the time you clean up your brushes.. Come back later that evening and put the hardware back on.

Repeat the next day. Now you are at two coats. Since the wood was naked, should do one more, realizing that the coating is drying slower and slower as the green coats are off gassing.

Until I went with a non-negotialble solvent based finish unless we are in the middle of summer, I was always nervous about the finishes being dry enough to not stick. Yes I took off the weatherstripping, etc., but still, one point of contact and it will leave a hickey. If the weather screws you and you miss a day of coating, 48 hours may be too late for another coat on top of your door and you will get witness lines.

Solvent based products are pretty predictable so I try to stick with them. But there is one winner you might try that is water borne but it acts and hardens like solvent. Find an ML Campbell dealer around you and they can fix you up with some of their outstanding water based products. I am pretty sure they have a brushable/foam pad product. I think that all SW has to offer is a catalyzed product and for something that small it is too much hassle.

I will probably tell them that after further research that the $1200
they were quoted is not unreasonable *if* the guy does excellent work.

If it is a really good job, I agree.

Robert