scenario

property owner has a tree they want removed

depending on the tree size and location it can be very expensive to have
them removed by a pro

the location matters for lots of reasons

proximity to structures
some localities require permits to remove trees and fines if you just
cut one down without asking

etc

i see lots of ads on craigslist for free lumber just come and cut
it down

i do not think they really understand what they are askin for because
anyone could show up with an axe and a chain saw and wreak havoc


saw an ad recently though for free lumber and they had 50-100 trees

do not know the species

so maybe it all comes down to what species and how big and how much
work

has anyone devised a model or spreadsheet that can begin to determine
the economy of this pursuit

i am leaning toward making the property owner pay some money no matter
what just because of the amount of work and threat to life and limb

"Electric Comet" wrote in message ...

....
saw an ad recently though for free lumber and they had 50-100 trees

do not know the species

so maybe it all comes down to what species and how big and how much
work

has anyone devised a model or spreadsheet that can begin to determine
the economy of this pursuit

i am leaning toward making the property owner pay some money no matter
what just because of the amount of work and threat to life and limb

There are a lot of "it depends" questions that go along with this...

Will the trees yield mill logs in regards to size?

Hardwoods/Softwoods?

Is this a clear cutting project where everything has to go?

Is it a TSI project (Timber Stand Improvement) where generally only cull
trees are being offered? Cull could be dead/damaged/leaner trees that may be
firewood only.

Does the brush (i.e., tops and limbs) need to be chipped, or need to be cut
sufficiently to have it lay fairly flat, or can you leave it lay as cut?

Possible answers include:


Mill logs... the cutter generally pays the land owner for those and the
price depends on anticipated yield and species and the market at time of
cutting.

TSI, what is it worth as firewood and can you process the wood economically?
Is there anything worth milling? There could be some trees with great
character that are nasty looking and not of interest to a commercial milling
operation but that could yield great wood via custom cutting with a chainsaw
mill or bandsaw mill.

Clear cutting... thats almost always a €œthey pay€� proposition and millable
logs are a bonus.

How you perceive all of this in the context of the trees offered is up to
you... At the end you may feel like you won or you may feel like you lost
financially. Then again, if you simply like cutting trees down and the
wood/money is secondary that can work too!

On 4/28/2016 3:51 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

scenario

property owner has a tree they want removed

depending on the tree size and location it can be very expensive to have
them removed by a pro

the location matters for lots of reasons

proximity to structures
some localities require permits to remove trees and fines if you just
cut one down without asking

etc

i see lots of ads on craigslist for free lumber just come and cut
it down

i do not think they really understand what they are askin for because
anyone could show up with an axe and a chain saw and wreak havoc


To me, it sounds like some cheap SOB is willing to take some risk to get
rid of a tree. They are looking for a guy that thinks he is getting a
freebie for a little labor.

As a homeowner, no one is taking a saw to a branch until they give me a
certificate of insurance with my name on it. This is a routine thing
that the agency does to prove coverage. As the guy taking down the tree
I'd want to be covered in case the homeowner tries to sue me for
dropping a big branch on his cat.

I had a tree taken down a couple of weeks ago. It had little value for
wood cut into boards, but did yield some firewood.

In my case, I paid $400 to have it taken down. If I was doing it for
the wood value, I'd be working for a very low wage. Unless you can get
a good yield of a prime species like cherry or walnut, I'd want to get
paid.

You really have to look at the shole situation like you are now.
Equipment involved risk, yield, time, expectation of clearing everything
away. My guess is you are dealing with a cheap ass homeowner that
thinks he is giving you a great gift. They will be a PITA do deal with.

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 2:54:42 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:

scenario

As best I can determine, you are not a professional. You are a hobbyist, maybe? .... *We've never seen any of your woodwork. You don't have a clue, as to what you are contemplating "leaning" into, if you are actually contemplating such.

You seem to post about such a wide variety of stuff and there doesn't always seem to be a common thread connecting all the different things you post about.

i am leaning toward making the property owner pay some money no matter
what just because of the amount of work and threat to life and limb

Is that your first thoughts, the bottom line or end product. i.e., profit? Typical thinking for a failed ventu Though you appear to be considering the "work involved", your comments suggest a round-about way of looking at the end product (profit), without considering all that precedes it, required to accomplish it. I get a sense that your business planning/thinking is about as valid (meaning erratic) as your varied woodworking postings.

For a property owner who has significant timber on their property, they won't be advertising on Craigslist, period!! They will go directly to a dedicated lumber/milling company. For this 50-100 trees, I highly suspect it's scrub stock or firewood, at best, and the property owner is looking for someone unknowing, of such things. Or did you make up this story, about these 50-100 trees, simply for the purpose of posting something (again), here on the forum?

I'll bite, though:

I suggest, if you want some (hobbyist) lumber for yourself, to inquire about cutting 1 or 2 trees, only. Size up that job (and the milling, etc.), before you even remotely consider tackling an acre of (questionable?!) timber land.

BTW, for that property owner, who advertises on Craigslist, .... and as others, here, have proffered...., I would recommend you Google "Hold Harmless Agreement", even for collecting 1 or 2 trees.

As a hobbyist, I once cut down 5-6 trees, at one time, for lumber, long ago.. The lumber value wasn't worth the labor effort. The pleasure of getting it was the value, at my naive age and/or lack of intelligence of such things. Since then, I've always salvaged a downed tree, or one that was to be fell by someone else, then had it milled. For a hobbyist, lumberjacking is a big job and the "profit" (of 1 or 2 trees) is usually only in the pleasure of getting a particular tree/lumber, not necessarily the monetary profit of the lumber.

Scenario: Let's say you cut all those trees and have them milled (rough cut). Then what? Where you gonna store all that lumber, before you sell it? .... *I assume you gonna sell it? Kiln dried, air dried? Is it to be planed or will you sell it as rough cut? Then you have to find some buyers, and that's another whole new ball game!

Side note: Generally, anything 8" (sometimes 10") or less, in diameter, is not milled, is not worth milling, for lumber. By the time the log is squared, there's no significant amount of "beam" remaining, to cut a decent amount of lumber.

If you want some hobbyist lumber, for a cost of labor only, I would recommend you find an old house, barn or shed to salvage, rather than lumberjacking. .... and again, consider a Hold Harmless agreement for demolition. More often, the property owner pays to have a structure demolished.

Want to find an old house to demolish? Go to your city's code office/appropriate department and find out what old houses are listed as condemned, mandated to be demolished. Go inspect the properties, to see which ones have some good/desireable lumber. Quote the owner a fee for demolition. You'll likely need a contract, as to what all needs to be done to satisfy the city's ordinace and/or the owners' wishes. For condemned houses, the city will often give the owner a time limit to have the building demolished, or else the city will do it, at the owner's expense. The city's demolition fee is usually non-negotiable. What's the city's typical fees, for various structures, and use that as a guide for your quote.

Not familiar with Hold Harmless agreements? Go to the Court house (files) and find one/some... see what is entailed, how it's worded, etc., etc.

Sonny

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 7:59:46 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/28/2016 3:51 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

scenario

property owner has a tree they want removed

depending on the tree size and location it can be very expensive to have
them removed by a pro

the location matters for lots of reasons

proximity to structures
some localities require permits to remove trees and fines if you just
cut one down without asking

etc

i see lots of ads on craigslist for free lumber just come and cut
it down

i do not think they really understand what they are askin for because
anyone could show up with an axe and a chain saw and wreak havoc


To me, it sounds like some cheap SOB is willing to take some risk to get
rid of a tree. They are looking for a guy that thinks he is getting a
freebie for a little labor.

As a homeowner, no one is taking a saw to a branch until they give me a
certificate of insurance with my name on it. This is a routine thing
that the agency does to prove coverage. As the guy taking down the tree
I'd want to be covered in case the homeowner tries to sue me for
dropping a big branch on his cat.

I had a tree taken down a couple of weeks ago. It had little value for
wood cut into boards, but did yield some firewood.

In my case, I paid $400 to have it taken down. If I was doing it for
the wood value, I'd be working for a very low wage. Unless you can get
a good yield of a prime species like cherry or walnut, I'd want to get
paid.

You really have to look at the shole situation like you are now.
Equipment involved risk, yield, time, expectation of clearing everything
away. My guess is you are dealing with a cheap ass homeowner that
thinks he is giving you a great gift. They will be a PITA do deal with.

Exactly. They advertise "free wood" but what they actually want is "free work."

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:19:48 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" wrote:

There are a lot of "it depends" questions that go along with this...

you make a lot of good points and show that this makes a good case
for a computer model using a spreadsheet at least and maybe a full
blown computer program to try to find the best arrangement

but there are probably too many unknowns that can be inserted into
the formula for the model to be accurate

i still lean toward charging the tree owner some amount in these
cases even if it was excellent lumber

if they balk then it is time to walk

they would probably call back when they get quotes from others

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:59:44 -0400
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

As a homeowner, no one is taking a saw to a branch until they give me
a certificate of insurance with my name on it. This is a routine
thing that the agency does to prove coverage. As the guy taking down
the tree I'd want to be covered in case the homeowner tries to sue me
for dropping a big branch on his cat.

the insurance is important point

in my travels over craigslist around the country i see many listings
saying free trees just come and cut it down

most are just a single tree and usually those single trees are close
to dwellings

the posters are not grasping that anyone can buy a chain saw and show
up to cut the tree

but if the homeowner is on a limited budget they may just be trying
to find a way to remove a potentially dangerous tree

but they find themselves in much worse shape if things go bad during
the tree cutting

On 5/7/2016 1:15 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:59:44 -0400
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

As a homeowner, no one is taking a saw to a branch until they give me
a certificate of insurance with my name on it. This is a routine
thing that the agency does to prove coverage. As the guy taking down
the tree I'd want to be covered in case the homeowner tries to sue me
for dropping a big branch on his cat.

the insurance is important point

in my travels over craigslist around the country i see many listings
saying free trees just come and cut it down

most are just a single tree and usually those single trees are close
to dwellings

the posters are not grasping that anyone can buy a chain saw and show
up to cut the tree

but if the homeowner is on a limited budget they may just be trying
to find a way to remove a potentially dangerous tree

but they find themselves in much worse shape if things go bad during
the tree cutting


It may be covered under homeowner's policy. but there could also be
liability on the person taking down the tree. You could ask a lawyer
but that could cost as much as having a pro cut it down.

On 2016-05-07, Electric Comet wrote:

the posters are not grasping that anyone can buy a chain saw and show
up to cut the tree

Here's a good reason to hire pros:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0PHwb_GgD8

.....and these guys are admitted amateurs!

nb

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/7/2016 1:15 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:59:44 -0400
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

As a homeowner, no one is taking a saw to a branch until they give me
a certificate of insurance with my name on it. This is a routine
thing that the agency does to prove coverage. As the guy taking down
the tree I'd want to be covered in case the homeowner tries to sue me
for dropping a big branch on his cat.

the insurance is important point

in my travels over craigslist around the country i see many listings
saying free trees just come and cut it down

most are just a single tree and usually those single trees are close
to dwellings

the posters are not grasping that anyone can buy a chain saw and show
up to cut the tree

but if the homeowner is on a limited budget they may just be trying
to find a way to remove a potentially dangerous tree

but they find themselves in much worse shape if things go bad during
the tree cutting


It may be covered under homeowner's policy. but there could also be
liability on the person taking down the tree. You could ask a lawyer
but that could cost as much as having a pro cut it down.

You could ask a lawyer for $250 or less.

"notbob" wrote in message ...

On 2016-05-07, Electric Comet wrote:

the posters are not grasping that anyone can buy a chain saw and show
up to cut the tree

Here's a good reason to hire pros:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0PHwb_GgD8

....and these guys are admitted amateurs!

Any one of these guys could show up too...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A38tbdu6ugk

On Sat, 7 May 2016 18:00:09 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/7/2016 1:15 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:59:44 -0400
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

As a homeowner, no one is taking a saw to a branch until they give me
a certificate of insurance with my name on it. This is a routine
thing that the agency does to prove coverage. As the guy taking down
the tree I'd want to be covered in case the homeowner tries to sue me
for dropping a big branch on his cat.

the insurance is important point

in my travels over craigslist around the country i see many listings
saying free trees just come and cut it down

most are just a single tree and usually those single trees are close
to dwellings

the posters are not grasping that anyone can buy a chain saw and show
up to cut the tree

but if the homeowner is on a limited budget they may just be trying
to find a way to remove a potentially dangerous tree

but they find themselves in much worse shape if things go bad during
the tree cutting


It may be covered under homeowner's policy. but there could also be
liability on the person taking down the tree. You could ask a lawyer
but that could cost as much as having a pro cut it down.

You could ask a lawyer for $250 or less.

....and a lawyer's answer will be "it depends". The question is more
of are you willing to go to court (on either side).

krw wrote:
On Sat, 7 May 2016 18:00:09 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/7/2016 1:15 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:59:44 -0400
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

As a homeowner, no one is taking a saw to a branch until they give me
a certificate of insurance with my name on it. This is a routine
thing that the agency does to prove coverage. As the guy taking down
the tree I'd want to be covered in case the homeowner tries to sue me
for dropping a big branch on his cat.
the insurance is important point

in my travels over craigslist around the country i see many listings
saying free trees just come and cut it down

most are just a single tree and usually those single trees are close
to dwellings

the posters are not grasping that anyone can buy a chain saw and show
up to cut the tree

but if the homeowner is on a limited budget they may just be trying
to find a way to remove a potentially dangerous tree

but they find themselves in much worse shape if things go bad during
the tree cutting

It may be covered under homeowner's policy. but there could also be
liability on the person taking down the tree. You could ask a lawyer
but that could cost as much as having a pro cut it down.

You could ask a lawyer for $250 or less.
...and a lawyer's answer will be "it depends". The question is more
of are you willing to go to court (on either side).

I paid exactly $250 once to get some questioned answered, and felt that
I got my money's worth. It didn't have anything to do with cutting down
trees though. When I hired a company to take down a tree, I called
their insurance company and verified that he was "paid up".

In other news, I replaced the "transmission assembly" in my
self-propelled lawnmower this week (ugg). I probably earned my $250
back right there.

Cheers

Bill wrote:



In other news, I replaced the "transmission assembly" in my
self-propelled lawnmower this week (ugg). I probably earned my $250
back right there.

Cheers


Good for you Bill! A rather trivial job in the scheme of things, but
maybe not so much if it's your first time putting your hand to that kind
of thing. Still - money well saved and a great sense of accomplishment.
Press on brother...


--
-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

In other news, I replaced the "transmission assembly" in my
self-propelled lawnmower this week (ugg). I probably earned my $250
back right there.

Cheers


Good for you Bill! A rather trivial job in the scheme of things, but
maybe not so much if it's your first time putting your hand to that
kind of thing. Still - money well saved and a great sense of
accomplishment. Press on brother...

Thanks Mike. It didn't seem trivial at the time. I learned about
the cable connector (had to watch 3 videos until i found one where I
could see how it worked), about Loctite (blue), and I learned that my
memory for putting the pieces (particularly springs and washers in the
gears) back together wasn't as good as I thought it would be.
Fortunately, a long model number permitted me download a more accurate
parts diagram than the one which came with my unit! Also, next time
I'll take things apart Before I order parts so I don't have to deal with
"stripped" or otherwise broken parts--though it seems to be running okay
with a broken spring behind the wheel gear (which still behaves as a
"spacer").

Bill

Bill wrote:


Thanks Mike. It didn't seem trivial at the time. I learned about
the cable connector (had to watch 3 videos until i found one where I
could see how it worked), about Loctite (blue), and I learned that my
memory for putting the pieces (particularly springs and washers in the
gears) back together wasn't as good as I thought it would be.
Fortunately, a long model number permitted me download a more accurate
parts diagram than the one which came with my unit! Also, next time
I'll take things apart Before I order parts so I don't have to deal with
"stripped" or otherwise broken parts--though it seems to be running okay
with a broken spring behind the wheel gear (which still behaves as a
"spacer").


HA! Don't I get that memory thing Bill! It's so bad that I've taken to
snapping pictures on my phone more and more now when I do things like
that which I've never done before. It's amazing how obvious it all
looks when you're taking it apart, but then it doesn't look so obvious
when you're putting it back together! I find myself saying that "Damn!"
word more and more these days...

--
-Mike-

Mike Marlow wrote in
:


HA! Don't I get that memory thing Bill! It's so bad that I've taken
to snapping pictures on my phone more and more now when I do things
like that which I've never done before. It's amazing how obvious it
all looks when you're taking it apart, but then it doesn't look so
obvious when you're putting it back together! I find myself saying
that "Damn!" word more and more these days...


I often separate the screws into separate assemblies as I take things
apart. The cover screws are in one small pile, the mount screws in
another, etc.

Dad told me (before digital cameras) to draw a picture of how something
went together. Sometimes I do, or at least mark it in a meaningful
context. I wrote "I" on the frame of one locomotive so I knew which
side had the insulated wheels. (The frame is often used for power
transfer, and one side has to be insulated.)

My favorite tip is if you're going to leave something disassembled for
more than a few minutes to put the screws back in the holes they came
out of. You often get those designs where they used the screws that
were as long as possible even though a shorter one would been fine.
That gets to be a puzzle.

Puckdropper

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:


Thanks Mike. It didn't seem trivial at the time. I learned about
the cable connector (had to watch 3 videos until i found one where I
could see how it worked), about Loctite (blue), and I learned that my
memory for putting the pieces (particularly springs and washers in the
gears) back together wasn't as good as I thought it would be.
Fortunately, a long model number permitted me download a more accurate
parts diagram than the one which came with my unit! Also, next time
I'll take things apart Before I order parts so I don't have to deal with
"stripped" or otherwise broken parts--though it seems to be running okay
with a broken spring behind the wheel gear (which still behaves as a
"spacer").


HA! Don't I get that memory thing Bill! It's so bad that I've taken
to snapping pictures on my phone more and more now when I do things
like that which I've never done before. It's amazing how obvious it
all looks when you're taking it apart, but then it doesn't look so
obvious when you're putting it back together!

How could anyone forget that the 2 washers go behind the gear with the
spring in between them? Of course, there were 4 washers, two thin and
two thick. The 2 thick ones go behind the pin that fits in the back of
the spur gear. Without the new diagram, I would have been unable to
complete the job... At least Troy-bilt had that for me. However their
"shop manuals" leave something to be desired. As I read somewhere else,
I think they want to support the businesses that repair lawnmowers, or
encourage people to replace their equipment.


I find myself saying that "Damn!" word more and more these days...

On 5/8/2016 3:34 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

Dad told me (before digital cameras) to draw a picture of how something
went together. Sometimes I do, or at least mark it in a meaningful
context. I wrote "I" on the frame of one locomotive so I knew which
side had the insulated wheels. (The frame is often used for power
transfer, and one side has to be insulated.)

My favorite tip is if you're going to leave something disassembled for
more than a few minutes to put the screws back in the holes they came
out of. You often get those designs where they used the screws that
were as long as possible even though a shorter one would been fine.
That gets to be a puzzle.

Puckdropper


Good advice. Eight years ago we moved our factory and all the machines.
Everything was marked and much was photographed as you describe and it
made setup in the new location much easier. It only takes a couple of
minutes to put the bolts back in place and take them out again when
needed. It save hours over finding lost bolts or having to buy new
ones. It was a four month project that I don't want to repeat.

On Sun, 8 May 2016 10:11:29 -0400, Bill
wrote:

krw wrote:
On Sat, 7 May 2016 18:00:09 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/7/2016 1:15 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 20:59:44 -0400
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

As a homeowner, no one is taking a saw to a branch until they give me
a certificate of insurance with my name on it. This is a routine
thing that the agency does to prove coverage. As the guy taking down
the tree I'd want to be covered in case the homeowner tries to sue me
for dropping a big branch on his cat.
the insurance is important point

in my travels over craigslist around the country i see many listings
saying free trees just come and cut it down

most are just a single tree and usually those single trees are close
to dwellings

the posters are not grasping that anyone can buy a chain saw and show
up to cut the tree

but if the homeowner is on a limited budget they may just be trying
to find a way to remove a potentially dangerous tree

but they find themselves in much worse shape if things go bad during
the tree cutting

It may be covered under homeowner's policy. but there could also be
liability on the person taking down the tree. You could ask a lawyer
but that could cost as much as having a pro cut it down.

You could ask a lawyer for $250 or less.
...and a lawyer's answer will be "it depends". The question is more
of are you willing to go to court (on either side).

I paid exactly $250 once to get some questioned answered, and felt that
I got my money's worth. It didn't have anything to do with cutting down
trees though. When I hired a company to take down a tree, I called
their insurance company and verified that he was "paid up".

I'm not saying that a lawyer's advice is never worth $250, just that
in this case there are too many variables and the main one here is
"are you willing to sue (or is the other guy)". Verifying insurance
is the smarter move, by far.

In other news, I replaced the "transmission assembly" in my
self-propelled lawnmower this week (ugg). I probably earned my $250
back right there.

Mine is wanting to stall now. It's very intermittent but it'll lose
power, cough, belch a little black smoke, and continue on. I'll have
to get to it sometime soon but the guy in the white coat and sharp
knives has dibs on me Tuesday. The mower (and the lawn) are going to
have to wait a little while (the HOA can go pound salt if it rains
this week).

On Sun, 8 May 2016 13:28:55 -0400, Bill
wrote:

Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:

In other news, I replaced the "transmission assembly" in my
self-propelled lawnmower this week (ugg). I probably earned my $250
back right there.

Cheers


Good for you Bill! A rather trivial job in the scheme of things, but
maybe not so much if it's your first time putting your hand to that
kind of thing. Still - money well saved and a great sense of
accomplishment. Press on brother...

Thanks Mike. It didn't seem trivial at the time. I learned about
the cable connector (had to watch 3 videos until i found one where I
could see how it worked), about Loctite (blue), and I learned that my
memory for putting the pieces (particularly springs and washers in the
gears) back together wasn't as good as I thought it would be.
Fortunately, a long model number permitted me download a more accurate
parts diagram than the one which came with my unit! Also, next time
I'll take things apart Before I order parts so I don't have to deal with
"stripped" or otherwise broken parts--though it seems to be running okay
with a broken spring behind the wheel gear (which still behaves as a
"spacer").

Have cell phone. Take pictures. ;-)

On Sat, 7 May 2016 17:55:22 -0400
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

It may be covered under homeowner's policy. but there could also be
liability on the person taking down the tree. You could ask a lawyer
but that could cost as much as having a pro cut it down.


now if i can find a tree pro that is also a lawyer

On Sat, 7 May 2016 18:52:06 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" wrote:

Any one of these guys could show up too...

yeah it can go bad quickly

really have to think clearly in these cases

spend 500 or 1000 or more and have it done right

or possibly end up injured for life with destroyed property and now
you have to hire someone anyway

i thought they set the palm tree onto the truck nicely

"Electric Comet" wrote in message ...

On Sat, 7 May 2016 18:52:06 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" wrote:

Any one of these guys could show up too...

yeah it can go bad quickly

really have to think clearly in these cases

spend 500 or 1000 or more and have it done right

or possibly end up injured for life with destroyed property and now
you have to hire someone anyway

i thought they set the palm tree onto the truck nicely

I've taken down about 60-70 trees in the past year... no mishaps and I'm not
counting anything under about 5-6" at breast height (ABH). Some of the trees
were very technical drops due to the proximity to wires, buildings, fences,
swimming pools, etc. The last one was a dead 74' ash that was 30" in
diameter ABH. The natural lean and canopy had the center of mass of the tree
leaning about 16 feet towards the house. Making matters worse it was within
7" of a shed which made it tricky to cut.

Using a rope saw I cut the limbs off up to about 35 feet or so which got the
center of mass down to about 7 feet towards the house. I felled it 90
degrees to the lean using an open face notch, plunge cut to establish the
hinge, lots of wedges to hold it in place, and then cut the "trigger." That
is, the Game of Logging technique. It ultimately took a 4" glut, 3" of
felling wedges, and an 8 lb. sledge hammer to get the tree to fall where I
wanted it... it did in fact land where I wanted it. It made some great
sounds as it fell! LOL See the short video of the final moments in abpw.
The caption was my son's doing. LOL

BTW, I used the Stihl MS461 with 25" bar that I picked up around the first
of the year. That 30" tree was no match for the saw! I limbed most of it
with my MS271 and used the MS461 on anything over about 6". Also, almost
all the trees in the background are dead ash... I took down 29 of them on my
parents' property. We need to get the adjoining property owner to take down
everything within about 80-90 feet of the shed and property line as they all
seem to be leaning towards it!

On 5/9/2016 8:49 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

4" glut, 3" of felling wedges, and an 8 lb. sledge hammer to get the
tree to fall where I wanted it... it did in fact land where I wanted it.
It made some great sounds as it fell! LOL See the short video of the
final moments in abpw. The caption was my son's doing. LOL

Nicely swot, John. Got two of them suckers in my back yard. Wanna give
them a go? LOL!

"Unquestionably Confused" wrote in message
eb.com...

On 5/9/2016 8:49 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

4" glut, 3" of felling wedges, and an 8 lb. sledge hammer to get the
tree to fall where I wanted it... it did in fact land where I wanted it.
It made some great sounds as it fell! LOL See the short video of the
final moments in abpw. The caption was my son's doing. LOL

Nicely swot, John. Got two of them suckers in my back yard. Wanna give
them a go? LOL!

Cutting them down and bucking is challenging and fun... cleaning up the mess
isn't...

Fun is mine... mess is yours.

Where are you? LOL

On 5/9/2016 10:09 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Unquestionably Confused" wrote in message
eb.com...

On 5/9/2016 8:49 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

4" glut, 3" of felling wedges, and an 8 lb. sledge hammer to get the
tree to fall where I wanted it... it did in fact land where I wanted it.
It made some great sounds as it fell! LOL See the short video of the
final moments in abpw. The caption was my son's doing. LOL

Nicely swot, John. Got two of them suckers in my back yard. Wanna
give them a go? LOL!

Cutting them down and bucking is challenging and fun... cleaning up the
mess isn't...

Fun is mine... mess is yours.

Where are you? LOL

Generally? About 65 NW of (and two lifestyles away from) the ****ty of
Chicago (aka Chiraq)

Specifically? About 35' and 95' due west of two dead Ash trees (~ 45
yrs old) that met their match with the Emerald Ash Borer.

"Unquestionably Confused" wrote in message
eb.com...

On 5/9/2016 10:09 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

Cutting them down and bucking is challenging and fun... cleaning up the
mess isn't...

Fun is mine... mess is yours.
Where are you? LOL

Generally? About 65 NW of (and two lifestyles away from) the ****ty of
Chicago (aka Chiraq)

Specifically? About 35' and 95' due west of two dead Ash trees (~ 45 yrs
old) that met their match with the Emerald Ash Borer.

I'm about 900 miles east of you... doesn't seem practical!

The Emerald Ash Borer has decimated this area..., e.g., 100s of trees
within 300 yards of my parents' house alone.

On 5/9/2016 11:09 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Unquestionably Confused" wrote in message
eb.com...

On 5/9/2016 8:49 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

4" glut, 3" of felling wedges, and an 8 lb. sledge hammer to get the
tree to fall where I wanted it... it did in fact land where I wanted it.
It made some great sounds as it fell! LOL See the short video of the
final moments in abpw. The caption was my son's doing. LOL

Nicely swot, John. Got two of them suckers in my back yard. Wanna
give them a go? LOL!

Cutting them down and bucking is challenging and fun... cleaning up the
mess isn't...

Fun is mine... mess is yours.

Where are you? LOL

Cleaning up has ruined a lot of project that were a lot of fun doing.

On Mon, 9 May 2016 21:49:26 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" wrote:

Using a rope saw I cut the limbs off up to about 35 feet or so which
got the center of mass down to about 7 feet towards the house. I
felled it 90 degrees to the lean using an open face notch, plunge cut
to establish the hinge, lots of wedges to hold it in place, and then
cut the "trigger." That is, the Game of Logging technique. It
ultimately took a 4" glut, 3" of felling wedges, and an 8 lb. sledge
hammer to get the tree to fall where I wanted it... it did in fact
land where I wanted it. It made some great sounds as it fell! LOL

sounds like challenging work

i have seen them cut trees like this in sections starting at the
top and lowering with ropes

after limbing them

your method sounds safer because cutting in sections requires
careful roping and using a chainsaw 60 feet up

BTW, I used the Stihl MS461 with 25" bar that I picked up around the
first of the year. That 30" tree was no match for the saw! I limbed
most of it with my MS271 and used the MS461 on anything over about
6". Also, almost all the trees in the background are dead ash... I
took down 29 of them on my parents' property. We need to get the
adjoining property owner to take down everything within about 80-90
feet of the shed and property line as they all seem to be leaning
towards it!

is the ash usable lumber or firewood


you make another interesting point

can a tree on adjoining property be labeled a hazard to another
property and be required to be removed

On Tue, 10 May 2016 08:55:06 -0400
knuttle wrote:

Cleaning up has ruined a lot of project that were a lot of fun doing.

a lot like writing documentation

Electric Comet wrote:


can a tree on adjoining property be labeled a hazard to another
property and be required to be removed


No. For the most part. There are locations around the country though
where weird local regulations defy logic... As a rule, but not as a
definitive, if the tree is right on the property line, there are some
prevailing regulations that affect that tree. Situation dependent.
That said - if a tree is fully on your property, and it leans toward
your neighbor's property - not so much protection for your neighbor.

You might have been better off to have checked with your local
municipality though, than raising your question here.


--
-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Electric Comet wrote:


can a tree on adjoining property be labeled a hazard to another
property and be required to be removed


No. For the most part. There are locations around the country though
where weird local regulations defy logic... As a rule, but not as a
definitive, if the tree is right on the property line, there are some
prevailing regulations that affect that tree. Situation dependent. That
said - if a tree is fully on your property, and it leans toward your
neighbor's property - not so much protection for your neighbor.

You might have been better off to have checked with your local
municipality though, than raising your question here.

In my neighborhood, the insurance companies are very proactive. If there is
a tree that is leaning towards your house, you tell your insurance agent
about it. They come out and look at it and if they think it is a problem,
they write a letter which explains that they will need to pay out if any
damage is caused by your tree. And they will sue to recover those damages.
That often acts as a good motivator.

I should point out that there are a lot of trees coming to the end of their
life in this neighborhood. Trees come down all the time. So there is a lot
of proactive tree work done around here. My next door neighbor had a huge
maple tree come down in her back yard a few months ago.

Also, there is enough of a tree problem around here that many real estate
sales include a "tree threat analysis" from a qualified arborist. It is a
good idea. About four years ago, a big tree took out about a third of a
house a block away from me. After any big wind storm, there is branches
down everywhere. And some small trees.

I walk my dog every day and I have seen the tree guys at work many times.
You really don't want to be liable for a tree on your property falling on
somebody else's house.

"Electric Comet" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 9 May 2016 21:49:26 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" wrote:

BTW, I used the Stihl MS461 with 25" bar that I picked up around the
first of the year. That 30" tree was no match for the saw! I limbed
most of it with my MS271 and used the MS461 on anything over about
6". Also, almost all the trees in the background are dead ash... I
took down 29 of them on my parents' property. We need to get the
adjoining property owner to take down everything within about 80-90
feet of the shed and property line as they all seem to be leaning
towards it!

is the ash usable lumber or firewood

I plan to mill it with a chainsaw mill... 36" bar on the MS461 gives me
about 29" of cutting capacity taking the Alaskan mill attachment and roller
nose on the bar into account. I might need to trim a few boards to width
though I think if I remove the bark that will take care of the issues on the
butt end of the first log. Taking the bark off also will keep the chain
sharp longer as there is a lot of grit in bark.

you make another interesting point

can a tree on adjoining property be labeled a hazard to another
property and be required to be removed

Around here if you notify the owner in writing that there is a problem and
something happens they are liable...

The note about having the insurance company do this is not a bad idea.

My parent's agent lives behind them near the property where all the dead ash
threaten my parents' property. As such it would be easy for him to check it
out. ;~)

On 5/11/2016 12:45 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Electric Comet wrote:


can a tree on adjoining property be labeled a hazard to another
property and be required to be removed


No. For the most part. There are locations around the country though
where weird local regulations defy logic... As a rule, but not as a
definitive, if the tree is right on the property line, there are some
prevailing regulations that affect that tree. Situation dependent.
That said - if a tree is fully on your property, and it leans toward
your neighbor's property - not so much protection for your neighbor.

You might have been better off to have checked with your local
municipality though, than raising your question here.

In my neighborhood, the insurance companies are very proactive. If
there is a tree that is leaning towards your house, you tell your
insurance agent about it. They come out and look at it and if they
think it is a problem, they write a letter which explains that they will
need to pay out if any damage is caused by your tree. And they will sue
to recover those damages. That often acts as a good motivator.
Snip



I walk my dog every day and I have seen the tree guys at work many
times. You really don't want to be liable for a tree on your property
falling on somebody else's house.



Exactly and precisely why I have liability insurance on my homeowners
policy.

On Wed, 11 May 2016 08:43:42 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Mon, 9 May 2016 21:49:26 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" wrote:

Using a rope saw I cut the limbs off up to about 35 feet or so which
got the center of mass down to about 7 feet towards the house. I
felled it 90 degrees to the lean using an open face notch, plunge cut
to establish the hinge, lots of wedges to hold it in place, and then
cut the "trigger." That is, the Game of Logging technique. It
ultimately took a 4" glut, 3" of felling wedges, and an 8 lb. sledge
hammer to get the tree to fall where I wanted it... it did in fact
land where I wanted it. It made some great sounds as it fell! LOL

sounds like challenging work

i have seen them cut trees like this in sections starting at the
top and lowering with ropes

after limbing them

your method sounds safer because cutting in sections requires
careful roping and using a chainsaw 60 feet up

BTW, I used the Stihl MS461 with 25" bar that I picked up around the
first of the year. That 30" tree was no match for the saw! I limbed
most of it with my MS271 and used the MS461 on anything over about
6". Also, almost all the trees in the background are dead ash... I
took down 29 of them on my parents' property. We need to get the
adjoining property owner to take down everything within about 80-90
feet of the shed and property line as they all seem to be leaning
towards it!

is the ash usable lumber or firewood


you make another interesting point

can a tree on adjoining property be labeled a hazard to another
property and be required to be removed

If you get the ash on time it can make good lumber. Longstanding
deadwood is generally firewood.

As far as hazards go, if you feel a tree is a hazard to your property,
send a registered letter to the neighbour, his insurance company, and
yours indicating your concern and a reasonable explabnation of the
risk. Not a bad idea to mail yourself a copy as well and put it in
your safe. When the tree comes down and does damage because no-one
took action, forwaerd your copy to your lawyer and let the insurance
companies fight it out..All the layer needs to do, (or your insurance
company) is establish that not removing the risk was negligence and
that both the owner and their insurance company were fully aware of
the risk. Having an arborist's assessment of the tree and pictures
included in the registered letter wpuld not be a bad idea either.....

On Wed, 11 May 2016 08:45:06 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Tue, 10 May 2016 08:55:06 -0400
knuttle wrote:

Cleaning up has ruined a lot of project that were a lot of fun doing.

a lot like writing documentation

I'm sure you hate documentation. Punctuation and shift keys take a
lot of effort.

Writing documentation first makes both the documentation and the
product better.

On Wed, 11 May 2016 16:25:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 5/11/2016 12:45 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
Electric Comet wrote:


can a tree on adjoining property be labeled a hazard to another
property and be required to be removed


No. For the most part. There are locations around the country though
where weird local regulations defy logic... As a rule, but not as a
definitive, if the tree is right on the property line, there are some
prevailing regulations that affect that tree. Situation dependent.
That said - if a tree is fully on your property, and it leans toward
your neighbor's property - not so much protection for your neighbor.

You might have been better off to have checked with your local
municipality though, than raising your question here.

In my neighborhood, the insurance companies are very proactive. If
there is a tree that is leaning towards your house, you tell your
insurance agent about it. They come out and look at it and if they
think it is a problem, they write a letter which explains that they will
need to pay out if any damage is caused by your tree. And they will sue
to recover those damages. That often acts as a good motivator.
Snip



I walk my dog every day and I have seen the tree guys at work many
times. You really don't want to be liable for a tree on your property
falling on somebody else's house.



Exactly and precisely why I have liability insurance on my homeowners
policy.

....and a $1M umbrella.

On Wed, 11 May 2016 17:11:25 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" wrote:

I plan to mill it with a chainsaw mill... 36" bar on the MS461 gives
me about 29" of cutting capacity taking the Alaskan mill attachment
and roller nose on the bar into account. I might need to trim a few
boards to width though I think if I remove the bark that will take
care of the issues on the butt end of the first log. Taking the bark
off also will keep the chain sharp longer as there is a lot of grit
in bark.

sounds like you will have a nice stockpile of ash to use in about a
year

i have turned some spindles of ash but that is about the extent
of my experience with it

it was really nice to turn


Around here if you notify the owner in writing that there is a
problem and something happens they are liable...


interesting
there must be more to it than just sending an opinion in a letter
in your case it sounds like you are qualified to pass judgement on
the tree

this could be abused by nasty people

"Electric Comet" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 11 May 2016 17:11:25 -0400
"John Grossbohlin" wrote:


sounds like you will have a nice stockpile of ash to use in about a
year

Probably sooner as the tree was dead and was drying out already...


Around here if you notify the owner in writing that there is a
problem and something happens they are liable...


interesting
there must be more to it than just sending an opinion in a letter
in your case it sounds like you are qualified to pass judgement on
the tree

this could be abused by nasty people

A few photographs will easily show the lean and proximity of the ash trees
to the shed and the property line. I've had to clean up the tops and
branches of some of the neighbor's maple trees already--they died due to wet
feet--that fell in an area where there was nothing to damage. Some of those
dead maple trees however can reach the garage if they came down in whole.
The landowner isn't adverse to cutting trees as he cleared a fairly large
area for a horse pasture... whether he is a responsible neighbor is yet to
be determined!