Leon wrote:

You should really look at Old Masters Gel varnish. Gels are so hassle
free that you can actually apply to work on a dusty work surface. The
only trick is to apply, and Immediately wipe off the excess, and then
again immediately give a lite buffing.
And at that moment you can almost toss a hand full of saw dust on it
with no worries.
When dry to touch app allpy the next coat 5 hours later or 5 weeks
later, with no sanding.
I have been using gel varnishes almost exclusively since 1989. Oddly
however they only come in a semigloss/satin finish.

I guess I'm going to have to give the Gel varnish a try - just to try it if
nothing else. All I've ever used in my life is the standard paint on poly.
It seems there is quite a difference between it and the Gel type varnishes.
Oh God - more to learn...

--

-Mike-

On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 3:22:48 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 10:28:04 AM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, polyurethanes take 100 hours or more to
completely cure. So you should be safe applying a new coat
within that time without sanding, it will chemically bond to
the coat below. Of course, it likely does vary between varnish
types and brands. As Mike says, check the manufacture's
instructions (altho those are probably conservative).

I assume by "conservative" that you mean they probably want you to
wait longer than is actually necessary.

The problem is, the Minwax WOP says to sand it after 2-3 hours. After
2-3 hours, in my experience, the WOP still seems to be too
wet/tacky/sticky (pick a term) to sand. 2-3 hours seems - at least to
me - to be a far cry from conservative.

You've never said whether you are using oil or water base varnish but still
sticky after 2-3 hours would indicate oil, right?

Actually, I never said I was using varnish. I am not. I am using Minwax Wipe On Poly, but yes, it's the oil based version.

If so I don't see
anything wrong, wait until it isn't sticky to sand if you just gotta sand
and that is going to be more that 2-3 hours.

OK, sort of...

It still doesn't make sense to me that the instructions on the Minwax product say to sand in 2-3 hours but no one in the real world agrees with that.

In any case, I should be around this weekend which will give me time to keep an eye on the dry time and apply more coats without the need to sand. Since wipe on poly goes on a lot thinner than brush on, I want to make sure I use enough, especially on the top of the nightstand.

400,000 cycles per month of a cell phone sliding on and off the nightstand will wear down the finish pretty quickly. After all, it is for a college student. ;-)


But if you ARE going to sand, I'd wait longer - at least 24 hours - and if
you are after a baby butt smooth surface, wait two weeks to sand before the
last coat...it takes at least that long for oil poly to cure; if you sand
and recoat before it is totally cured, the thicker layer left in the pores
will continue to cure and shrink and there goes the flawless surface.
__________________________

FWIW, these are my experience with poly...

OIL
The only thing I've used oil poly on for years is my Saltillo tile floor (I
use lacquer or oil on furniture). I have 4000+ sq.ft. of it and
all except baseboards and trim (they are Saltillo too) has 3-4 (I try for
four) coats. It is generally applied ratherheavily...I pour out a line
about 5-6' wide and start pulling it around with a mohair applicator. As
soon as I can walk on it barefoot without sticking, I apply the next coat;
that time is never less that 3 hours, rarely much more that 4.

WATER
I have used it but don't like it. Things covered by it look dull and it
doesn't wear nearly as well as the oil base. I use it to keep a finish as
light as possible or (sometimes) to top coat acrylic "enamel" so stuff
doesn't stick to it. I did use it as an after thought on an oak dining
table; originally, I used BLO but some months later decided I wanted
somethng more durable so wiped on a few coats of water poly. There, it
looks OK because the oil provided color to the wood.

When I wipe it on, one coat follows another in an hour or less.
________________

Apropos to what John said about poly being a mix of poly and acrylic, I
believe that is correct for water base but IIRC the oil base is a mix of
poly and alkyd.

In article ,
says...

On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 3:22:48 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 10:28:04 AM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, polyurethanes take 100 hours or more to
completely cure. So you should be safe applying a new coat
within that time without sanding, it will chemically bond to
the coat below. Of course, it likely does vary between varnish
types and brands. As Mike says, check the manufacture's
instructions (altho those are probably conservative).

I assume by "conservative" that you mean they probably want you to
wait longer than is actually necessary.

The problem is, the Minwax WOP says to sand it after 2-3 hours. After
2-3 hours, in my experience, the WOP still seems to be too
wet/tacky/sticky (pick a term) to sand. 2-3 hours seems - at least to
me - to be a far cry from conservative.

You've never said whether you are using oil or water base varnish but still
sticky after 2-3 hours would indicate oil, right?

Actually, I never said I was using varnish. I am not. I am using Minwax Wipe On Poly, but yes, it's the oil based version.

Are you leaving a film like you would with brushed on, or are you
rubbing it in? If you're leaving a film, try rubbing it in instead.

If so I don't see
anything wrong, wait until it isn't sticky to sand if you just gotta sand
and that is going to be more that 2-3 hours.

OK, sort of...

It still doesn't make sense to me that the instructions on the Minwax product say to sand in 2-3 hours but no one in the real world agrees with that.

In any case, I should be around this weekend which will give me time to keep an eye on the dry time and apply more coats without the need to sand. Since wipe on poly goes on a lot thinner than brush on, I want to make sure I use enough, especially on the top of the nightstand.

400,000 cycles per month of a cell phone sliding on and off the nightstand will wear down the finish pretty quickly. After all, it is for a college student. ;-)


But if you ARE going to sand, I'd wait longer - at least 24 hours - and if
you are after a baby butt smooth surface, wait two weeks to sand before the
last coat...it takes at least that long for oil poly to cure; if you sand
and recoat before it is totally cured, the thicker layer left in the pores
will continue to cure and shrink and there goes the flawless surface.
__________________________

FWIW, these are my experience with poly...

OIL
The only thing I've used oil poly on for years is my Saltillo tile floor (I
use lacquer or oil on furniture). I have 4000+ sq.ft. of it and
all except baseboards and trim (they are Saltillo too) has 3-4 (I try for
four) coats. It is generally applied ratherheavily...I pour out a line
about 5-6' wide and start pulling it around with a mohair applicator. As
soon as I can walk on it barefoot without sticking, I apply the next coat;
that time is never less that 3 hours, rarely much more that 4.

WATER
I have used it but don't like it. Things covered by it look dull and it
doesn't wear nearly as well as the oil base. I use it to keep a finish as
light as possible or (sometimes) to top coat acrylic "enamel" so stuff
doesn't stick to it. I did use it as an after thought on an oak dining
table; originally, I used BLO but some months later decided I wanted
somethng more durable so wiped on a few coats of water poly. There, it
looks OK because the oil provided color to the wood.

When I wipe it on, one coat follows another in an hour or less.
________________

Apropos to what John said about poly being a mix of poly and acrylic, I
believe that is correct for water base but IIRC the oil base is a mix of
poly and alkyd.

On 7/31/2015 2:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:

You should really look at Old Masters Gel varnish. Gels are so hassle
free that you can actually apply to work on a dusty work surface. The
only trick is to apply, and Immediately wipe off the excess, and then
again immediately give a lite buffing.
And at that moment you can almost toss a hand full of saw dust on it
with no worries.
When dry to touch app allpy the next coat 5 hours later or 5 weeks
later, with no sanding.
I have been using gel varnishes almost exclusively since 1989. Oddly
however they only come in a semigloss/satin finish.

I guess I'm going to have to give the Gel varnish a try - just to try it if
nothing else. All I've ever used in my life is the standard paint on poly.
It seems there is quite a difference between it and the Gel type varnishes.
Oh God - more to learn...



With Old Masters, you can really over think it.

I posted a video of how quick this goes. Wipe it on in about an 18"
square area, immediately wipe of the excess, immediately buff out with
a different rag.

I use Scott Blue shop towels to apply, wipe off and to buff with. 3 to
4 coats.

As Nailshooter has indicated, this is an adult finish. It beautifies
the wood but does not protect against things kids might do to it, as
with any piece of fine furniture.

On 7/31/2015 2:55 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 3:22:48 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 10:28:04 AM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, polyurethanes take 100 hours or more to
completely cure. So you should be safe applying a new coat
within that time without sanding, it will chemically bond to
the coat below. Of course, it likely does vary between
varnish types and brands. As Mike says, check the
manufacture's instructions (altho those are probably
conservative).

I assume by "conservative" that you mean they probably want you
to wait longer than is actually necessary.

The problem is, the Minwax WOP says to sand it after 2-3 hours.
After 2-3 hours, in my experience, the WOP still seems to be too
wet/tacky/sticky (pick a term) to sand. 2-3 hours seems - at
least to me - to be a far cry from conservative.

You've never said whether you are using oil or water base varnish
but still sticky after 2-3 hours would indicate oil, right?

Actually, I never said I was using varnish. I am not. I am using
Minwax Wipe On Poly, but yes, it's the oil based version.

FWIW "varnish" is pretty much a generic term to describe any clear
protective finish including shellac, lacquer, etc. Basically a resin
dissolved in a liquid.



If so I don't see anything wrong, wait until it isn't sticky to
sand if you just gotta sand and that is going to be more that 2-3
hours.

OK, sort of...

It still doesn't make sense to me that the instructions on the Minwax
product say to sand in 2-3 hours but no one in the real world agrees
with that.

In any case, I should be around this weekend which will give me time
to keep an eye on the dry time and apply more coats without the need
to sand. Since wipe on poly goes on a lot thinner than brush on, I
want to make sure I use enough, especially on the top of the
nightstand.

400,000 cycles per month of a cell phone sliding on and off the
nightstand will wear down the finish pretty quickly. After all, it is
for a college student. ;-)


But if you ARE going to sand, I'd wait longer - at least 24 hours -
and if you are after a baby butt smooth surface, wait two weeks to
sand before the last coat...it takes at least that long for oil
poly to cure; if you sand and recoat before it is totally cured,
the thicker layer left in the pores will continue to cure and
shrink and there goes the flawless surface.
__________________________

FWIW, these are my experience with poly...

OIL The only thing I've used oil poly on for years is my Saltillo
tile floor (I use lacquer or oil on furniture). I have 4000+
sq.ft. of it and all except baseboards and trim (they are Saltillo
too) has 3-4 (I try for four) coats. It is generally applied
ratherheavily...I pour out a line about 5-6' wide and start pulling
it around with a mohair applicator. As soon as I can walk on it
barefoot without sticking, I apply the next coat; that time is
never less that 3 hours, rarely much more that 4.

WATER I have used it but don't like it. Things covered by it look
dull and it doesn't wear nearly as well as the oil base. I use it
to keep a finish as light as possible or (sometimes) to top coat
acrylic "enamel" so stuff doesn't stick to it. I did use it as an
after thought on an oak dining table; originally, I used BLO but
some months later decided I wanted somethng more durable so wiped
on a few coats of water poly. There, it looks OK because the oil
provided color to the wood.

When I wipe it on, one coat follows another in an hour or less.
________________

Apropos to what John said about poly being a mix of poly and
acrylic, I believe that is correct for water base but IIRC the oil
base is a mix of poly and alkyd.

Leon wrote:


FWIW "varnish" is pretty much a generic term to describe any clear
protective finish including shellac, lacquer, etc. Basically a resin
dissolved in a liquid.


Now that's not at all what I have always understood varnish to be. In fact,
I've always understood it to be distinctly different from shellac. Nothing
similar in their qualities. Likewise lacquer. That might explain some of
the things that have come up in this thread. Shellac for example, behaves
much differently than polyurethane varnish does. It takes recoats
differently, etc. It reacts or cooperates with other finishes much
differently than other finishes do. I've just never seen the term varnish
to be a generic term - rather, a more specific term. I can't tell you the
chemical composition, but I've always seen it to be a very specific
compound. I don't really think it's safe to say "a resin dissolved in a
liquid" - that leaves way too much room for definition.

Having said that - Leon may be correct in that the term has roots in the way
he's saying, but I believe in today's vocabulary, the term varnish has a
completely different (more specific) meaning.

--

-Mike-

On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 5:01:04 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/31/2015 2:55 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 3:22:48 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 10:28:04 AM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, polyurethanes take 100 hours or more to
completely cure. So you should be safe applying a new coat
within that time without sanding, it will chemically bond to
the coat below. Of course, it likely does vary between
varnish types and brands. As Mike says, check the
manufacture's instructions (altho those are probably
conservative).

I assume by "conservative" that you mean they probably want you
to wait longer than is actually necessary.

The problem is, the Minwax WOP says to sand it after 2-3 hours.
After 2-3 hours, in my experience, the WOP still seems to be too
wet/tacky/sticky (pick a term) to sand. 2-3 hours seems - at
least to me - to be a far cry from conservative.

You've never said whether you are using oil or water base varnish
but still sticky after 2-3 hours would indicate oil, right?

Actually, I never said I was using varnish. I am not. I am using
Minwax Wipe On Poly, but yes, it's the oil based version.

FWIW "varnish" is pretty much a generic term to describe any clear
protective finish including shellac, lacquer, etc. Basically a resin
dissolved in a liquid.



Uh oh...I suspect some interesting reactions to that statement.

While you are correct in saying that varnish is often used as a generic name for various clear finishes, I'm not sure that the wRec is the right environment to propagate the myth that all clear coatings are varnishes. You'll just confuse people like me!

We shouldn't call all photocopies "Xerox copies", we shouldn't call all personal watercraft "Jet Skis" and we shouldn't call all peanut butter and marshmallow spread sandwiches "Fluffernutters" - ahh...the memories. :-)

Since this thread is discussing - in detail - the application methods, dry time and durability of various finishes, I think it would be confusing if I responded to dadiOH by saying I was using an "oil based varnish" after I started the thread by saying I was using Wipe On Polyurethane.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

You've never said whether you are using oil or water base varnish
but still
sticky after 2-3 hours would indicate oil, right?

Actually, I never said I was using varnish. I am not. I am using
Minwax Wipe On Poly, but yes, it's the oil based version.

It is still varnish.

"Mike Marlow" wrote:
Leon wrote:


FWIW "varnish" is pretty much a generic term to describe any clear
protective finish including shellac, lacquer, etc. Basically a resin
dissolved in a liquid.


Now that's not at all what I have always understood varnish to be. In fact,
I've always understood it to be distinctly different from shellac. Nothing
similar in their qualities. Likewise lacquer. That might explain some of
the things that have come up in this thread. Shellac for example, behaves
much differently than polyurethane varnish does. It takes recoats
differently, etc. It reacts or cooperates with other finishes much
differently than other finishes do. I've just never seen the term varnish
to be a generic term - rather, a more specific term. I can't tell you the
chemical composition, but I've always seen it to be a very specific
compound. I don't really think it's safe to say "a resin dissolved in a
liquid" - that leaves way too much room for definition.

Having said that - Leon may be correct in that the term has roots in the way
he's saying, but I believe in today's vocabulary, the term varnish has a
completely different (more specific) meaning.


. There can be varnish in your carb. :-).

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 5:01:04 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 7/31/2015 2:55 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 3:22:48 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 10:28:04 AM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, polyurethanes take 100 hours or more to
completely cure. So you should be safe applying a new coat
within that time without sanding, it will chemically bond to
the coat below. Of course, it likely does vary between
varnish types and brands. As Mike says, check the
manufacture's instructions (altho those are probably
conservative).

I assume by "conservative" that you mean they probably want you
to wait longer than is actually necessary.

The problem is, the Minwax WOP says to sand it after 2-3 hours.
After 2-3 hours, in my experience, the WOP still seems to be too
wet/tacky/sticky (pick a term) to sand. 2-3 hours seems - at
least to me - to be a far cry from conservative.

You've never said whether you are using oil or water base varnish
but still sticky after 2-3 hours would indicate oil, right?

Actually, I never said I was using varnish. I am not. I am using
Minwax Wipe On Poly, but yes, it's the oil based version.

FWIW "varnish" is pretty much a generic term to describe any clear
protective finish including shellac, lacquer, etc. Basically a resin
dissolved in a liquid.



Uh oh...I suspect some interesting reactions to that statement.

While you are correct in saying that varnish is often used as a generic
name for various clear finishes, I'm not sure that the wRec is the right
environment to propagate the myth that all clear coatings are varnishes.
You'll just confuse people like me!

We shouldn't call all photocopies "Xerox copies", we shouldn't call all
personal watercraft "Jet Skis" and we shouldn't call all peanut butter
and marshmallow spread sandwiches "Fluffernutters" - ahh...the memories. :-)

Since this thread is discussing - in detail - the application methods,
dry time and durability of various finishes, I think it would be
confusing if I responded to dadiOH by saying I was using an "oil based
varnish" after I started the thread by saying I was using Wipe On Polyurethane.

:-)

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

FWIW "varnish" is pretty much a generic term to describe any clear
protective finish including shellac, lacquer, etc. Basically a resin
dissolved in a liquid.

Well, the Oxford English Dictionary agrees with you (and traces
the word back to a Greek word referring to a place in Asia Minor
where tree resin was collected).

But like Mike, I think in modern usage shellac and lacquer are
considered different, and varnish refers to the finishes which
have a polymerization reaction - polyurethane, epoxy, etc.

John

On 8/1/2015 9:07 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

FWIW "varnish" is pretty much a generic term to describe any clear
protective finish including shellac, lacquer, etc. Basically a resin
dissolved in a liquid.

Well, the Oxford English Dictionary agrees with you (and traces
the word back to a Greek word referring to a place in Asia Minor
where tree resin was collected).

But like Mike, I think in modern usage shellac and lacquer are
considered different, and varnish refers to the finishes which
have a polymerization reaction - polyurethane, epoxy, etc.

John


I'm not real sure if you could find a printed modern definition that
states your last paragraph, or something like that.
But I will agree that varnish is seen as something more specific.
Today a varnish is often simply called by its make up.

Hey BOB!, what kind of gasoline do you use in your car? I don't use
gasoline, I use Premium! LOL

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 9:07 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

FWIW "varnish" is pretty much a generic term to describe any clear
protective finish including shellac, lacquer, etc. Basically a resin
dissolved in a liquid.

Well, the Oxford English Dictionary agrees with you (and traces
the word back to a Greek word referring to a place in Asia Minor
where tree resin was collected).

But like Mike, I think in modern usage shellac and lacquer are
considered different, and varnish refers to the finishes which
have a polymerization reaction - polyurethane, epoxy, etc.

John


I'm not real sure if you could find a printed modern definition that
states your last paragraph, or something like that.
But I will agree that varnish is seen as something more specific.
Today a varnish is often simply called by its make up.

Hey BOB!, what kind of gasoline do you use in your car? I don't use
gasoline, I use Premium! LOL

More like "what kind of gasoline do you use in your care? I don't use
gasoline, I use diesel".

On Saturday, August 1, 2015 at 10:33:35 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 8/1/2015 9:07 AM, John McCoy wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

FWIW "varnish" is pretty much a generic term to describe any clear
protective finish including shellac, lacquer, etc. Basically a resin
dissolved in a liquid.

Well, the Oxford English Dictionary agrees with you (and traces
the word back to a Greek word referring to a place in Asia Minor
where tree resin was collected).

But like Mike, I think in modern usage shellac and lacquer are
considered different, and varnish refers to the finishes which
have a polymerization reaction - polyurethane, epoxy, etc.

John


I'm not real sure if you could find a printed modern definition that
states your last paragraph, or something like that.
But I will agree that varnish is seen as something more specific.
Today a varnish is often simply called by its make up.


This site seems to do a decent job of differentiating between varnish and polyurethane. Well, at least is seems like a decent job to a rookie like me.

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.shesails.net/tag/varnish-vs-polyurethane/

Varnish:

Varnish is made from a combination of resin (either plant-derived or synthetic), drying oils (most often tung or linseed), solvents (turpentine, etc.), UV protectors, and sometimes driers. Traditional knowledge says that varnishes give superior UV protection to wood that gets sun exposure, and a relatively long-lasting, flexible finish. Varnish's flexibility makes it ideal for moving parts which might cause other harder finishes to crack, allowing moisture to damage the wood.

A proper varnish job requires a somewhat experienced hand, not only for a nice-looking finish, but also to ensure that the finish takes. If done improperly, varnish can crack, peel, delaminate, bubble, or never fully harden. Varnishing also requires a somewhat dust-free environment, nice weather, and lots of time to apply many coats. For our purposes on Clearwater, we tend only to use varnish on exterior wood that has a low likelihood of getting banged or chafed, such as hatch covers, since touch-ups are somewhat challenging and time consuming. Someone who knows what they are doing should scuff and apply a top coat of varnish once per season.

Polyurethane:

Polyurethane is a finish/sealant that has a very similar application and appearance to varnish, and therefore the two are often used interchangeably. Polyurethane differs from varnish in many ways that don't matter to us very much, namely the way it is made, and the chemical process it goes through to "kick". What IS relevant to us is that a polyurethane finish tends to be MUCH harder than varnish, meaning it holds up much better under certain circumstances. The down side is that it also tends to be less flexible, which means that it will crack much more easily on pieces that flex.

A point about UV protection: I've always been told that the difference between varnish and poly is that varnish protects against UV damage and poly doesn't. From what I gather, this isn't fully true, at least anymore. Both varnish and poly CAN contain UV protective additives, but from what I've read, over the long haul, the UV filters in polyurethane break down faster than those in varnish. I have not myself worked on the same piece of half-varnished and half-polyurethaned wood for 10 years, so I can't speak from personal experience.

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

On Saturday, August 1, 2015 at 10:33:35 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 8/1/2015 9:07 AM, John McCoy wrote:

But like Mike, I think in modern usage shellac and lacquer are
considered different, and varnish refers to the finishes which
have a polymerization reaction - polyurethane, epoxy, etc.

I'm not real sure if you could find a printed modern definition that
states your last paragraph, or something like that.

I doubt you could. It's just what "I think" when I hear varnish.
I don't think of shellac or lacquer, I think of poly or epoxy
or something like that, and I think that's a common reaction.

This site seems to do a decent job of differentiating between varnish
and polyurethane. Well, at least is seems like a decent job to a
rookie like me.

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.shesails.net/tag/varnish-vs-polyurethane/

That site is comparing what we used to call "spar varnish" with
polyurethane varnish. I wouldn't take it as the definitive
word (and even amoung sailors, in my experience "varnish"
isn't taken to mean exclusively spar varnish, unless it's
obvious from the context).

John

DerbyDad03 wrote:

This site seems to do a decent job of differentiating between varnish
and polyurethane. Well, at least is seems like a decent job to a
rookie like me.

I keep telling you...oil poly IS varnish. (So is water poly, just not a
very good one).

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.shesails.net/tag/varnish-vs-polyurethane/

Varnish:

Varnish is made from a combination of resin (either plant-derived or
synthetic), drying oils (most often tung or linseed), solvents
(turpentine, etc.), UV protectors, and sometimes driers.

Urethane/polyurethane is a resin. Mix it with the other stuff and you have
varnish.

On 8/1/2015 3:32 PM, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

This site seems to do a decent job of differentiating between varnish
and polyurethane. Well, at least is seems like a decent job to a
rookie like me.

I keep telling you...oil poly IS varnish. (So is water poly, just not a
very good one).

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.shesails.net/tag/varnish-vs-polyurethane/

Varnish:

Varnish is made from a combination of resin (either plant-derived or
synthetic), drying oils (most often tung or linseed), solvents
(turpentine, etc.), UV protectors, and sometimes driers.

Urethane/polyurethane is a resin. Mix it with the other stuff and you have
varnish.


Yup! LOL As many don't understand, varnish is not made a specific way.
Varnish is made many many many many ways.

What kind of wood did you use? I did not use wood, I used oak.

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 3:32 PM, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

This site seems to do a decent job of differentiating between varnish
and polyurethane. Well, at least is seems like a decent job to a
rookie like me.

I keep telling you...oil poly IS varnish. (So is water poly, just not a
very good one).

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.shesails.net/tag/varnish-vs-polyurethane/

Varnish:

Varnish is made from a combination of resin (either plant-derived or
synthetic), drying oils (most often tung or linseed), solvents
(turpentine, etc.), UV protectors, and sometimes driers.

Urethane/polyurethane is a resin. Mix it with the other stuff and you have
varnish.


Yup! LOL As many don't understand, varnish is not made a specific way.
Varnish is made many many many many ways.

What kind of wood did you use? I did not use wood, I used oak.

The distinction is generally that the "resin" in varnish is soluble in
the carrier--recoat and it blends right in. Cured polyurethane is not
soluble in much and certainly not in the carrier solvent.

On 8/1/2015 5:03 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 3:32 PM, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

This site seems to do a decent job of differentiating between varnish
and polyurethane. Well, at least is seems like a decent job to a
rookie like me.

I keep telling you...oil poly IS varnish. (So is water poly, just not a
very good one).

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.shesails.net/tag/varnish-vs-polyurethane/

Varnish:

Varnish is made from a combination of resin (either plant-derived or
synthetic), drying oils (most often tung or linseed), solvents
(turpentine, etc.), UV protectors, and sometimes driers.

Urethane/polyurethane is a resin. Mix it with the other stuff and you have
varnish.


Yup! LOL As many don't understand, varnish is not made a specific way.
Varnish is made many many many many ways.

What kind of wood did you use? I did not use wood, I used oak.

The distinction is generally that the "resin" in varnish is soluble in
the carrier--recoat and it blends right in. Cured polyurethane is not
soluble in much and certainly not in the carrier solvent.


FWIW my current gel varnish of choice is Old Masters.

If you do a search of varnish on their site it brings up Spar-Marine
Varnish, Oil-based Polyurethane, Tung Oil Varnish, Penetrating sealer
to just name the first 4.

http://www.myoldmasters.com/search.htm

Additionally, the specific product that I use is

http://www.myoldmasters.com/products...ed-gelpoly.htm

It is a gel polyurethane varnish. Application indicated dry to touch in
5 to 6 hours and wait at least 6 hours before reapplication.
Sanding between coats in not necessary. Reapply, 2~3 coats and
basically the more the better.
Given those specific instructions, there is no maximum wait time between
coats indicated. I have reapplied as long as a year later using this
specific product.

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 5:03 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 3:32 PM, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

This site seems to do a decent job of differentiating between varnish
and polyurethane. Well, at least is seems like a decent job to a
rookie like me.

I keep telling you...oil poly IS varnish. (So is water poly, just not a
very good one).

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.shesails.net/tag/varnish-vs-polyurethane/

Varnish:

Varnish is made from a combination of resin (either plant-derived or
synthetic), drying oils (most often tung or linseed), solvents
(turpentine, etc.), UV protectors, and sometimes driers.

Urethane/polyurethane is a resin. Mix it with the other stuff and you have
varnish.


Yup! LOL As many don't understand, varnish is not made a specific way.
Varnish is made many many many many ways.

What kind of wood did you use? I did not use wood, I used oak.

The distinction is generally that the "resin" in varnish is soluble in
the carrier--recoat and it blends right in. Cured polyurethane is not
soluble in much and certainly not in the carrier solvent.


FWIW my current gel varnish of choice is Old Masters.

If you do a search of varnish on their site it brings up Spar-Marine
Varnish, Oil-based Polyurethane, Tung Oil Varnish, Penetrating sealer
to just name the first 4.

http://www.myoldmasters.com/search.htm

Additionally, the specific product that I use is

http://www.myoldmasters.com/products...ed-gelpoly.htm

It is a gel polyurethane varnish. Application indicated dry to touch in
5 to 6 hours and wait at least 6 hours before reapplication.
Sanding between coats in not necessary. Reapply, 2~3 coats and
basically the more the better.
Given those specific instructions, there is no maximum wait time between
coats indicated. I have reapplied as long as a year later using this
specific product.

Does that method work 20 years later like it does with the kind of
varnish in which the carrier is the solvent for the resin?

On 8/1/2015 5:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 5:03 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 3:32 PM, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

This site seems to do a decent job of differentiating between varnish
and polyurethane. Well, at least is seems like a decent job to a
rookie like me.

I keep telling you...oil poly IS varnish. (So is water poly, just not a
very good one).

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.shesails.net/tag/varnish-vs-polyurethane/

Varnish:

Varnish is made from a combination of resin (either plant-derived or
synthetic), drying oils (most often tung or linseed), solvents
(turpentine, etc.), UV protectors, and sometimes driers.

Urethane/polyurethane is a resin. Mix it with the other stuff and you have
varnish.


Yup! LOL As many don't understand, varnish is not made a specific way.
Varnish is made many many many many ways.

What kind of wood did you use? I did not use wood, I used oak.

The distinction is generally that the "resin" in varnish is soluble in
the carrier--recoat and it blends right in. Cured polyurethane is not
soluble in much and certainly not in the carrier solvent.


FWIW my current gel varnish of choice is Old Masters.

If you do a search of varnish on their site it brings up Spar-Marine
Varnish, Oil-based Polyurethane, Tung Oil Varnish, Penetrating sealer
to just name the first 4.

http://www.myoldmasters.com/search.htm

Additionally, the specific product that I use is

http://www.myoldmasters.com/products...ed-gelpoly.htm

It is a gel polyurethane varnish. Application indicated dry to touch in
5 to 6 hours and wait at least 6 hours before reapplication.
Sanding between coats in not necessary. Reapply, 2~3 coats and
basically the more the better.
Given those specific instructions, there is no maximum wait time between
coats indicated. I have reapplied as long as a year later using this
specific product.

Does that method work 20 years later like it does with the kind of
varnish in which the carrier is the solvent for the resin?



What method? I have been using gel varnishes since 1989. I have had to
clean and reapply the gel varnish on our old kitchen that I built in
1991. That was probably over 8 years ago. My son now owns that house
and there is no issue. The original gel varnish was Bartleys. I either
recoated with Bartleys or Lawrence McFadden. I was switching brands
when LMcF bought Bartleys gel stains and varnishes and I was buying
direct from LMcF.

In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 5:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 5:03 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 3:32 PM, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

This site seems to do a decent job of differentiating between varnish
and polyurethane. Well, at least is seems like a decent job to a
rookie like me.

I keep telling you...oil poly IS varnish. (So is water poly, just not a
very good one).

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.shesails.net/tag/varnish-vs-polyurethane/

Varnish:

Varnish is made from a combination of resin (either plant-derived or
synthetic), drying oils (most often tung or linseed), solvents
(turpentine, etc.), UV protectors, and sometimes driers.

Urethane/polyurethane is a resin. Mix it with the other stuff and you have
varnish.


Yup! LOL As many don't understand, varnish is not made a specific way.
Varnish is made many many many many ways.

What kind of wood did you use? I did not use wood, I used oak.

The distinction is generally that the "resin" in varnish is soluble in
the carrier--recoat and it blends right in. Cured polyurethane is not
soluble in much and certainly not in the carrier solvent.


FWIW my current gel varnish of choice is Old Masters.

If you do a search of varnish on their site it brings up Spar-Marine
Varnish, Oil-based Polyurethane, Tung Oil Varnish, Penetrating sealer
to just name the first 4.

http://www.myoldmasters.com/search.htm

Additionally, the specific product that I use is

http://www.myoldmasters.com/products...ed-gelpoly.htm

It is a gel polyurethane varnish. Application indicated dry to touch in
5 to 6 hours and wait at least 6 hours before reapplication.
Sanding between coats in not necessary. Reapply, 2~3 coats and
basically the more the better.
Given those specific instructions, there is no maximum wait time between
coats indicated. I have reapplied as long as a year later using this
specific product.

Does that method work 20 years later like it does with the kind of
varnish in which the carrier is the solvent for the resin?



What method? I have been using gel varnishes since 1989. I have had to
clean and reapply the gel varnish on our old kitchen that I built in
1991.

Clean and reapply is not the same as repairing a damaged spot.

That was probably over 8 years ago. My son now owns that house
and there is no issue.

What "issue" would there be?

The original gel varnish was Bartleys. I either
recoated with Bartleys or Lawrence McFadden. I was switching brands
when LMcF bought Bartleys gel stains and varnishes and I was buying
direct from LMcF.

I wasn't talking about "recoating".

On 8/1/2015 5:56 PM, Leon wrote:

What kind of wood did you use? I did not use wood, I used oak.


OK then don't varnish it. Paint it and buy a kit to make it look like
pine.

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

The distinction is generally that the "resin" in varnish is soluble in
the carrier--recoat and it blends right in. Cured polyurethane is not
soluble in much and certainly not in the carrier solvent.

OK, that's a new one that I hadn't ever heard before (altho
just as valid as the definition I gave a couple of posts
up thread, I guess).

Aside from shellac and lacquer, which finishes dissolve and
blend with prior coats? I don't think any of those which are
commonly sold with "varnish" in the name do so...

John

In article ,
says...

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

The distinction is generally that the "resin" in varnish is soluble in
the carrier--recoat and it blends right in. Cured polyurethane is not
soluble in much and certainly not in the carrier solvent.

OK, that's a new one that I hadn't ever heard before (altho
just as valid as the definition I gave a couple of posts
up thread, I guess).

Aside from shellac and lacquer, which finishes dissolve and
blend with prior coats? I don't think any of those which are
commonly sold with "varnish" in the name do so...

The urethanes certainly don't. But the alkyds can--most drying oils are
soluble in fairly mild solvents. Really depends on how it's made.

On 8/1/2015 8:28 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 5:49 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 5:03 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , lcb11211
@swbelldotnet says...

On 8/1/2015 3:32 PM, dadiOH wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

This site seems to do a decent job of differentiating between varnish
and polyurethane. Well, at least is seems like a decent job to a
rookie like me.

I keep telling you...oil poly IS varnish. (So is water poly, just not a
very good one).

Stolen without permission from:

http://www.shesails.net/tag/varnish-vs-polyurethane/

Varnish:

Varnish is made from a combination of resin (either plant-derived or
synthetic), drying oils (most often tung or linseed), solvents
(turpentine, etc.), UV protectors, and sometimes driers.

Urethane/polyurethane is a resin. Mix it with the other stuff and you have
varnish.


Yup! LOL As many don't understand, varnish is not made a specific way.
Varnish is made many many many many ways.

What kind of wood did you use? I did not use wood, I used oak.

The distinction is generally that the "resin" in varnish is soluble in
the carrier--recoat and it blends right in. Cured polyurethane is not
soluble in much and certainly not in the carrier solvent.


FWIW my current gel varnish of choice is Old Masters.

If you do a search of varnish on their site it brings up Spar-Marine
Varnish, Oil-based Polyurethane, Tung Oil Varnish, Penetrating sealer
to just name the first 4.

http://www.myoldmasters.com/search.htm

Additionally, the specific product that I use is

http://www.myoldmasters.com/products...ed-gelpoly.htm

It is a gel polyurethane varnish. Application indicated dry to touch in
5 to 6 hours and wait at least 6 hours before reapplication.
Sanding between coats in not necessary. Reapply, 2~3 coats and
basically the more the better.
Given those specific instructions, there is no maximum wait time between
coats indicated. I have reapplied as long as a year later using this
specific product.

Does that method work 20 years later like it does with the kind of
varnish in which the carrier is the solvent for the resin?



What method? I have been using gel varnishes since 1989. I have had to
clean and reapply the gel varnish on our old kitchen that I built in
1991.

Clean and reapply is not the same as repairing a damaged spot.

That was probably over 8 years ago. My son now owns that house
and there is no issue.

What "issue" would there be?

The original gel varnish was Bartleys. I either
recoated with Bartleys or Lawrence McFadden. I was switching brands
when LMcF bought Bartleys gel stains and varnishes and I was buying
direct from LMcF.

I wasn't talking about "recoating".


I don't recall any one mentioning anything other than applying another
coat to a well cured surface.

J. Clarke wrote:

The distinction is generally that the "resin" in varnish is soluble in
the carrier--recoat and it blends right in.

Not IMO unless you consider shellac and lacqer to be varnish. Which I
don't.

Cured polyurethane is not
soluble in much and certainly not in the carrier solvent.

Neither is alkyd or phenolic resin, acrylic either for that matter.