I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping about 100 linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces ranged in length from a few that were over 60" to large number between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went very smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did run into an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal tension and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the splitter. In some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway through the board before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out (with the saw off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other end to complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and then (somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the splitter/guard. I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones would have jammed around the splitter, but I can say for certain that none of the lighter ones did.

I have a 24 tooth ripping blade, but it is in serious need of sharpening. (In fact, I dropped it off at a saw and knife shop this morning) The 24 tooth cuts a wider kerf than the D1040X, so I might not have had the binding problem, but I don't think it was sharp enough to have given me such a clean edge. I have read about internal stresses causing kickback and other issues, but this was the first time that I actually experienced it first hand - not kickback, but the closing of the kerf on the splitter.

In any case, the ripping is done, I now have to wait for a decent dado set to magically appear in my shop so that I can start on the grooves and stub-tenons.

In the meantime, I'm going to build a *real* cross-cut sled to replace one I made years ago when I had even less of a clue than I have now. It works, but just barely, and it's not big enough for the MDF panels I'll need for the kitchen doors.

On 2/2/15 2:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping about
100 linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces ranged in
length from a few that were over 60" to large number between 25" and
35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went very
smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did run
into an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal
tension and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the
splitter. In some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway
through the board before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling
the boards back out (with the saw off, of course) flipping them and
coming in from the other end to complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards
aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and
then (somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the
splitter/guard. I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones
would have jammed around the splitter, but I can say for certain
that none of the lighter ones did.

I have a 24 tooth ripping blade, but it is in serious need of
sharpening. (In fact, I dropped it off at a saw and knife shop this
morning) The 24 tooth cuts a wider kerf than the D1040X, so I might
not have had the binding problem, but I don't think it was sharp
enough to have given me such a clean edge. I have read about
internal stresses causing kickback and other issues, but this was the
first time that I actually experienced it first hand - not kickback,
but the closing of the kerf on the splitter.

In any case, the ripping is done, I now have to wait for a decent
dado set to magically appear in my shop so that I can start on the
grooves and stub-tenons.


That's an interesting observation.
One I'll keep in mind next time rip some poplar.

By the way, next time that happens and the board starts to pinch the
splitter, try sticking a shim in the kerf to keep the two sides pushed
apart.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/2/2015 2:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
In any case, the ripping is done, I now have to wait for a decent dado set to magically appear in my shop so that I can start on the grooves and stub-tenons.

No problem, here's how I do that.

Whittle a 'wood eye' out a piece of dark reaction poplar and rub it
briskly while standing in the shop at the exact moment of sunrise,
chanting "Om... just a few brads until the glue dries, Om...", to the
tune of "Misty Mountains Cold". Then post a YouTube video link to the
wREc of your performance before sundown of the same day.

Never fails ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 4:52:04 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
On 2/2/2015 2:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
In any case, the ripping is done, I now have to wait for a decent dado set to magically appear in my shop so that I can start on the grooves and stub-tenons.

No problem, here's how I do that.

Whittle a 'wood eye' out a piece of dark reaction poplar

Wood Eye? Wood Eye?

Hair lip! Hair lip!


and rub it
briskly while standing in the shop at the exact moment of sunrise,
chanting "Om... just a few brads until the glue dries, Om...", to the
tune of "Misty Mountains Cold". Then post a YouTube video link to the
wREc of your performance before sundown of the same day.

Never fails ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/2/2015 2:27 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping about 100 linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces ranged in length from a few that were over 60" to large number between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went very smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did run into an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal tension and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the splitter. In some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway through the board before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out (with the saw off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other end to complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and then (somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the splitter/guard. I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones would have jammed around the splitter, but I can say for certain that none of the lighter ones did.

I have a 24 tooth ripping blade, but it is in serious need of sharpening. (In fact, I dropped it off at a saw and knife shop this morning) The 24 tooth cuts a wider kerf than the D1040X, so I might not have had the binding problem, but I don't think it was sharp enough to have given me such a clean edge. I have read about internal stresses causing kickback and other issues, but this was the first time that I actually experienced it first hand - not kickback, but the closing of the kerf on the splitter.

In any case, the ripping is done, I now have to wait for a decent dado set to magically appear in my shop so that I can start on the grooves and stub-tenons.

In the meantime, I'm going to build a *real* cross-cut sled to replace one I made years ago when I had even less of a clue than I have now. It works, but just barely, and it's not big enough for the MDF panels I'll need for the kitchen doors.


And I feel that poplar smells an awful lot like cotton candy when cut. ;~)

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping about 100
linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces ranged in length
from a few that were over 60" to large number between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went very
smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did run into
an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal tension
and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the splitter.
In
some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway through the board
before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out
(with
the saw off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other end
to
complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards
aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and then
(somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the splitter/guard.
I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones would have jammed
around the splitter, but I can say for certain that none of the lighter
ones did.

I've used a fair amount of poplar and have never encountered that problem.
I'm fixing to need another 150-200 board feet of it so hope I never do

The only times I have ever had a kerf close up is when ripping white wood
2x4s for this and that. I just stick a wedge in the kerf.

In the meantime, I'm going to build a *real* cross-cut sled to replace
one I made years ago when I had even less of a clue than I have now. It
works, but just barely, and it's not big enough for the MDF panels I'll
need for the kitchen doors.

I made one just for ripping panels out of mel board. I can do any length,
up to 36" wide. Two runners, white oak.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 5:40:26 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping about 100
linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces ranged in length
from a few that were over 60" to large number between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went very
smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did run into
an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal tension
and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the splitter.
In
some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway through the board
before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out
(with
the saw off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other end
to
complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards
aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and then
(somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the splitter/guard.
I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones would have jammed
around the splitter, but I can say for certain that none of the lighter
ones did.

I've used a fair amount of poplar and have never encountered that problem.
I'm fixing to need another 150-200 board feet of it so hope I never do

The only times I have ever had a kerf close up is when ripping white wood
2x4s for this and that. I just stick a wedge in the kerf.

....Snip...

dadiOH


I mic'd the blade and the splitter. They both read 3/32" with a digital micrometer that reads down to 1/64". It seems like it wouldn't take too much movement to get things to bind up.

Is your ripping blade a full 1/8"?

Maybe I should sand the paint off of the splitter. ;-)

On Mon, 02 Feb 2015 12:27:46 -0800, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal tension
and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the splitter.
In some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway through the board
before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out
(with the saw off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other
end to complete the rip.

It's not just poplar. Seems like all the wood I've bought in the last
few years has a good proportion of case hardened pieces.

I just let it go far enough past the blade that it's starting to close
and then wedge an appropriately sized nail in the cut to hold it open.

And for all the horrified gasps I'm about to get, do NOT do this unless
you're using anti-kickback rollers! Shooting a nail across the shop is a
BAD idea. Use a wooden wedge instead.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 5:40:26 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping about
100 linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces ranged in
length from a few that were over 60" to large number between 25" and
35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went very
smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did run
into an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal
tension
and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the
splitter.
In
some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway through the board
before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out
(with
the saw off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other
end
to
complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards
aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and
then (somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the
splitter/guard. I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones
would have jammed around the splitter, but I can say for certain
that
none of the lighter ones did.

I've used a fair amount of poplar and have never encountered that
problem. I'm fixing to need another 150-200 board feet of it so hope I
never do

The only times I have ever had a kerf close up is when ripping white
wood 2x4s for this and that. I just stick a wedge in the kerf.

...Snip...

dadiOH


I mic'd the blade and the splitter. They both read 3/32" with a digital
micrometer that reads down to 1/64". It seems like it wouldn't take too
much movement to get things to bind up.

Is your ripping blade a full 1/8"?

No. Can't say what it is, but 3/32 sounds about right.

Maybe I should sand the paint off of the splitter. ;-)

I just don't use it

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 2/3/2015 8:35 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 5:40:26 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping about 100
linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces ranged in length
from a few that were over 60" to large number between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went very
smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did run into
an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal tension
and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the splitter.
In
some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway through the board
before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out
(with
the saw off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other end
to
complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards
aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and then
(somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the splitter/guard.
I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones would have jammed
around the splitter, but I can say for certain that none of the lighter
ones did.

I've used a fair amount of poplar and have never encountered that problem.
I'm fixing to need another 150-200 board feet of it so hope I never do

The only times I have ever had a kerf close up is when ripping white wood
2x4s for this and that. I just stick a wedge in the kerf.

...Snip...

dadiOH


I mic'd the blade and the splitter. They both read 3/32" with a digital micrometer that reads down to 1/64". It seems like it wouldn't take too much movement to get things to bind up.

Is your ripping blade a full 1/8"?

Maybe I should sand the paint off of the splitter. ;-)


No, get a blade that has a 1/8" kerf. That helps with all kinds of
issues that are introduced with think kerf blades. If a thin kerf blade
flexes in the cut it can cut unparalleled to the fence and cause the
wood to pull away from the fence. A thin kerf can flex if it get hot or
hits hard and soft spots in the wood.

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 1:11:46 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/3/2015 8:35 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 5:40:26 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping about 100
linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces ranged in length
from a few that were over 60" to large number between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went very
smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did run into
an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal tension
and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the splitter..
In
some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway through the board
before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out
(with
the saw off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other end
to
complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards
aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and then
(somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the splitter/guard.
I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones would have jammed
around the splitter, but I can say for certain that none of the lighter
ones did.

I've used a fair amount of poplar and have never encountered that problem.
I'm fixing to need another 150-200 board feet of it so hope I never do

The only times I have ever had a kerf close up is when ripping white wood
2x4s for this and that. I just stick a wedge in the kerf.

...Snip...

dadiOH


I mic'd the blade and the splitter. They both read 3/32" with a digital micrometer that reads down to 1/64". It seems like it wouldn't take too much movement to get things to bind up.

Is your ripping blade a full 1/8"?

Maybe I should sand the paint off of the splitter. ;-)


No, get a blade that has a 1/8" kerf. That helps with all kinds of
issues that are introduced with think kerf blades. If a thin kerf blade
flexes in the cut it can cut unparalleled to the fence and cause the
wood to pull away from the fence. A thin kerf can flex if it get hot or
hits hard and soft spots in the wood.

But that 1/32" of an inch is a waste of our natural resources. How will I sleep at night? ;-)

OK, now this may be a really stupid question:

Many have mentioned that they insert a wedge in the kerf to keep it open. OK, where should this wedge be placed? I assume that it should go into the kerf after it has passed splitter, but what if the board hasn't made it past the splitter yet?

I don't recall the exact situation, but I think I remember times when the board bound up before it was past the splitter. Is it safe to put a wedge just behind the (stopped) blade and then continue ripping, letting the wedge fall out (?) when it contacts the splitter? Something just doesn't sound safe with that method.

On 2/3/15 2:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 1:11:46 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/3/2015 8:35 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 5:40:26 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of
ripping about 100 linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend.
The pieces ranged in length from a few that were over 60" to
large number between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping
went very smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all
boards, but I did run into an interesting (at least to me)
situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the
internal tension and the more apt that the kerf was going to
close around the splitter. In some cases I wasn't able to
rip more than halfway through the board before it would bind
up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out (with the saw
off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other
end to complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker
boards aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter
installed, and then (somewhat nervously) ripping the darker
ones without the splitter/guard. I don't know for sure that
all of the darker ones would have jammed around the
splitter, but I can say for certain that none of the lighter
ones did.

I've used a fair amount of poplar and have never encountered
that problem. I'm fixing to need another 150-200 board feet of
it so hope I never do

The only times I have ever had a kerf close up is when ripping
white wood 2x4s for this and that. I just stick a wedge in
the kerf.

...Snip...

dadiOH


I mic'd the blade and the splitter. They both read 3/32" with a
digital micrometer that reads down to 1/64". It seems like it
wouldn't take too much movement to get things to bind up.

Is your ripping blade a full 1/8"?

Maybe I should sand the paint off of the splitter. ;-)


No, get a blade that has a 1/8" kerf. That helps with all kinds of
issues that are introduced with think kerf blades. If a thin kerf
blade flexes in the cut it can cut unparalleled to the fence and
cause the wood to pull away from the fence. A thin kerf can flex
if it get hot or hits hard and soft spots in the wood.

But that 1/32" of an inch is a waste of our natural resources. How
will I sleep at night? ;-)

OK, now this may be a really stupid question:

Many have mentioned that they insert a wedge in the kerf to keep it
open. OK, where should this wedge be placed? I assume that it should
go into the kerf after it has passed splitter, but what if the board
hasn't made it past the splitter yet?

I don't recall the exact situation, but I think I remember times
when the board bound up before it was past the splitter. Is it safe
to put a wedge just behind the (stopped) blade and then continue
ripping, letting the wedge fall out (?) when it contacts the
splitter? Something just doesn't sound safe with that method.


IMO, if your board is binding in the couple inches between the back of
the blade and the splitter, there is something wrong with your set-up.

As as already been discussed, although it is improbably that the
splitter is wider than the blade kerf, it is very possible for the
splitter to be left or right of the blade kerf due to poor set-up. The
arbor could actually be NOT perfectly perpendicular to the miter slot
and fence. There are ways to adjust that which could involve a sledge
hammer, if there are no adjustment bolts. :-)
The splitter could be bent in any number of ways. The splitter could
need shimmed left or right depending on the blade. Just a tiny bit of
deflection in any direction in the splitter is enough to cause what
you're describing.

Even in a board with high tension, you should be able to get past the
splitter before needing to insert a wedge. I have run across a board or
two with extreme tension that started to close up before the splitter,
even when the saw was set-up perfectly. You can do two things...
1. Back the board out and re-cut into the pinch. Turn the saw off
before backing out if you're uncomfortable with that procedure.
2. Raise the blade all the way up before cutting. This will actually
cut the pinched wood again on the back side of the blade. Plus there
will be less space between the blade and splitter. Careful, it may want
to lift a bit if pinching on the back of the blade. Be sure you are
pressing down as you always should. If you end up having to back out
again, the blade won't kick back as much since it is cutting in a more
downward motion.

However you end up ripping a board with tension. I would recommend
ripping to rough widths on the first pass. Then the final width on a
second pass. If you're only cutting off a fraction of an inch, there
won't be enough, or any, wood to bind.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 3:37:20 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/3/15 2:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


....Portions snipped...See OP for more info...


IMO, if your board is binding in the couple inches between the back of
the blade and the splitter, there is something wrong with your set-up.

While I tend to agree with you, perhaps I should clarify: Of the 50+ boards that I ripped, maybe 1/2 dozen or so presented this problem. Maybe I made it sound more extreme then it was and for that I apologize. It only took a couple of binding episodes for me to notice that it was the darker wood, so I grabbed another dark one: it bound. Then I grabbed a light one: it was like butter. That indicated to me that the darker boards were the issue, not my set-up.

Trust me, I checked my set up carefully since I am still in the "I don't know what I don't know" phase. The only variation between "bind" and "like butter" was the color of the wood.

....possible set-up related remedies snipped...


Even in a board with high tension, you should be able to get past the
splitter before needing to insert a wedge. I have run across a board or
two with extreme tension that started to close up before the splitter,
even when the saw was set-up perfectly. You can do two things...

Actually 3...


1. Back the board out and re-cut into the pinch. Turn the saw off
before backing out if you're uncomfortable with that procedure.
2. Raise the blade all the way up before cutting. This will actually
cut the pinched wood again on the back side of the blade. Plus there
will be less space between the blade and splitter. Careful, it may want
to lift a bit if pinching on the back of the blade. Be sure you are
pressing down as you always should. If you end up having to back out
again, the blade won't kick back as much since it is cutting in a more
downward motion.

3: Back the board out and restart the rip from the other end. That worked for me.

However, I do like the higher blade method and will keep that in mind. Thanks for that!


However you end up ripping a board with tension. I would recommend
ripping to rough widths on the first pass. Then the final width on a
second pass. If you're only cutting off a fraction of an inch, there
won't be enough, or any, wood to bind.


Umm...true for the second rip, but that doesn't solve the initial binding problem. Maybe I'm missing something...

I was ripping 1x6's essentially in half. I used the narrowest of the 50+ pieces to determine what the narrowest "1/2" would be and set the fence to rip each board to that width. Therefore for each board, the first rip was to final width, leaving the "cutoff" rough. That piece was then ripped to remove that "fraction of an inch", which changed slightly for each board. Even if the first rip was rough, the binding issue would still have been present since I would have been ripping a full width board, regardless if it was to final width or rough. Am I missing something in your suggestion?

On 2/3/15 3:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 3:37:20 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/3/15 2:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


...Portions snipped...See OP for more info...


IMO, if your board is binding in the couple inches between the
back of the blade and the splitter, there is something wrong with
your set-up.

While I tend to agree with you, perhaps I should clarify: Of the 50+
boards that I ripped, maybe 1/2 dozen or so presented this problem.
Maybe I made it sound more extreme then it was and for that I
apologize. It only took a couple of binding episodes for me to
notice that it was the darker wood, so I grabbed another dark one: it
bound. Then I grabbed a light one: it was like butter. That indicated
to me that the darker boards were the issue, not my set-up.

Trust me, I checked my set up carefully since I am still in the "I
don't know what I don't know" phase. The only variation between
"bind" and "like butter" was the color of the wood.


Yes, we are well into the "sake of discussion" portion of internet
threads. :-)
Just talking about general processes for the sake future problems or for
anyone else listening in.



Even in a board with high tension, you should be able to get past
the splitter before needing to insert a wedge. I have run across
a board or two with extreme tension that started to close up
before the splitter, even when the saw was set-up perfectly. You
can do two things...

Actually 3...


1. Back the board out and re-cut into the pinch. Turn the saw off
before backing out if you're uncomfortable with that procedure. 2.
Raise the blade all the way up before cutting. This will actually
cut the pinched wood again on the back side of the blade. Plus
there will be less space between the blade and splitter. Careful,
it may want to lift a bit if pinching on the back of the blade. Be
sure you are pressing down as you always should. If you end up
having to back out again, the blade won't kick back as much since
it is cutting in a more downward motion.

3: Back the board out and restart the rip from the other end. That
worked for me.

However, I do like the higher blade method and will keep that in
mind. Thanks for that!


However you end up ripping a board with tension. I would recommend
ripping to rough widths on the first pass. Then the final width
on a second pass. If you're only cutting off a fraction of an
inch, there won't be enough, or any, wood to bind.


Umm...true for the second rip, but that doesn't solve the initial
binding problem. Maybe I'm missing something...

I was ripping 1x6's essentially in half. I used the narrowest of the
50+ pieces to determine what the narrowest "1/2" would be and set
the fence to rip each board to that width. Therefore for each board,
the first rip was to final width, leaving the "cutoff" rough. That
piece was then ripped to remove that "fraction of an inch", which
changed slightly for each board. Even if the first rip was rough, the
binding issue would still have been present since I would have been
ripping a full width board, regardless if it was to final width or
rough. Am I missing something in your suggestion?


Again, just speaking of general technique when dealing with board tension.
Sometimes the first rip or two that relieves tension in a board produces
a poor cut, yielding burn marks or steps and saw marks in the cut line.
This can happen with a great blade.

Since I am accustomed to glue-edge ready cuts on my table saw, I'm
sharing what I usually do to get them. If someone had a long jointer,
they could go straight from the table saw to the jointer to remove any
of those imperfection I mentioned. I've found it's simpler for me to
just make a final edge cut on the table saw to exact width that leaves a
ready-for-glue or ready-to-sand edge.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal
tension and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around
the splitter.

then (somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the
splitter/guard.

I mic'd the blade and the splitter. They both read 3/32" with a
digital micrometer that reads down to 1/64". It seems like it wouldn't
take too much movement to get things to bind up.

You do realize that the entire purpose of the splitter is for
the wood to bind on the splitter before it binds on the blade,
right? I would never consider ripping without a splitter (or
riving knife), _especially_ if I knew that wood was likely to
close the kerf.

John

On 2/3/2015 1:37 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/3/15 2:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 1:11:46 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/3/2015 8:35 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 5:40:26 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of
ripping about 100 linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend.
The pieces ranged in length from a few that were over 60" to
large number between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping
went very smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all
boards, but I did run into an interesting (at least to me)
situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the
internal tension and the more apt that the kerf was going to
close around the splitter. In some cases I wasn't able to
rip more than halfway through the board before it would bind
up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out (with the saw
off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other
end to complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker
boards aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter
installed, and then (somewhat nervously) ripping the darker
ones without the splitter/guard. I don't know for sure that
all of the darker ones would have jammed around the
splitter, but I can say for certain that none of the lighter
ones did.

I've used a fair amount of poplar and have never encountered
that problem. I'm fixing to need another 150-200 board feet of
it so hope I never do

The only times I have ever had a kerf close up is when ripping
white wood 2x4s for this and that. I just stick a wedge in
the kerf.

...Snip...

dadiOH


I mic'd the blade and the splitter. They both read 3/32" with a
digital micrometer that reads down to 1/64". It seems like it
wouldn't take too much movement to get things to bind up.

Is your ripping blade a full 1/8"?

Maybe I should sand the paint off of the splitter. ;-)


No, get a blade that has a 1/8" kerf. That helps with all kinds of
issues that are introduced with think kerf blades. If a thin kerf
blade flexes in the cut it can cut unparalleled to the fence and
cause the wood to pull away from the fence. A thin kerf can flex
if it get hot or hits hard and soft spots in the wood.

But that 1/32" of an inch is a waste of our natural resources. How
will I sleep at night? ;-)

OK, now this may be a really stupid question:

Many have mentioned that they insert a wedge in the kerf to keep it
open. OK, where should this wedge be placed? I assume that it should
go into the kerf after it has passed splitter, but what if the board
hasn't made it past the splitter yet?

I don't recall the exact situation, but I think I remember times
when the board bound up before it was past the splitter. Is it safe
to put a wedge just behind the (stopped) blade and then continue
ripping, letting the wedge fall out (?) when it contacts the
splitter? Something just doesn't sound safe with that method.


IMO, if your board is binding in the couple inches between the back of
the blade and the splitter, there is something wrong with your set-up.

As as already been discussed, although it is improbably that the
splitter is wider than the blade kerf, it is very possible for the
splitter to be left or right of the blade kerf due to poor set-up. The
arbor could actually be NOT perfectly perpendicular to the miter slot
and fence. There are ways to adjust that which could involve a sledge
hammer, if there are no adjustment bolts. :-)
The splitter could be bent in any number of ways. The splitter could
need shimmed left or right depending on the blade. Just a tiny bit of
deflection in any direction in the splitter is enough to cause what
you're describing.

Even in a board with high tension, you should be able to get past the
splitter before needing to insert a wedge. I have run across a board or
two with extreme tension that started to close up before the splitter,
even when the saw was set-up perfectly. You can do two things...
1. Back the board out and re-cut into the pinch. Turn the saw off
before backing out if you're uncomfortable with that procedure.
2. Raise the blade all the way up before cutting. This will actually
cut the pinched wood again on the back side of the blade. Plus there
will be less space between the blade and splitter. Careful, it may want
to lift a bit if pinching on the back of the blade. Be sure you are
pressing down as you always should. If you end up having to back out
again, the blade won't kick back as much since it is cutting in a more
downward motion.

However you end up ripping a board with tension. I would recommend
ripping to rough widths on the first pass. Then the final width on a
second pass. If you're only cutting off a fraction of an inch, there
won't be enough, or any, wood to bind.

When I bought my (used) Delta the blade guard and splitter were missing.
I used a piece of 12 gauge steel and made a splitter about 12" long.
(12 gauge is 7/64")
Never had a binding problem.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 1:11:46 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 2/3/2015 8:35 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 at 5:40:26 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping about 100
linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces ranged in length
from a few that were over 60" to large number between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went very
smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did run into
an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal tension
and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the splitter.
In
some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway through the board
before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out
(with
the saw off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other end
to
complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards
aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and then
(somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the splitter/guard.
I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones would have jammed
around the splitter, but I can say for certain that none of the lighter
ones did.

I've used a fair amount of poplar and have never encountered that problem.
I'm fixing to need another 150-200 board feet of it so hope I never do

The only times I have ever had a kerf close up is when ripping white wood
2x4s for this and that. I just stick a wedge in the kerf.

...Snip...

dadiOH


I mic'd the blade and the splitter. They both read 3/32" with a digital
micrometer that reads down to 1/64". It seems like it wouldn't take too
much movement to get things to bind up.

Is your ripping blade a full 1/8"?

Maybe I should sand the paint off of the splitter. ;-)


No, get a blade that has a 1/8" kerf. That helps with all kinds of
issues that are introduced with think kerf blades. If a thin kerf blade
flexes in the cut it can cut unparalleled to the fence and cause the
wood to pull away from the fence. A thin kerf can flex if it get hot or
hits hard and soft spots in the wood.

But that 1/32" of an inch is a waste of our natural resources. How will I
sleep at night? ;-)

Not when a resulting bad cut wastes more wood.

OK, now this may be a really stupid question:

Many have mentioned that they insert a wedge in the kerf to keep it open.
OK, where should this wedge be placed? I assume that it should go into
the kerf after it has passed splitter, but what if the board hasn't made
it past the splitter yet

If the wood is pinching bewerrn the blade and splitter, just pull the wood
out and cut again. The wedge should only be after the splitter if you need
it.

I don't recall the exact situation, but I think I remember times when the
board bound up before it was past the splitter. Is it safe to put a wedge
just behind the (stopped) blade and then continue ripping, letting the
wedge fall out (?) when it contacts the splitter? Something just doesn't
sound safe with that method.

On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 2:27:48 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping about 100 linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces ranged in length from a few that were over 60" to large number between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went very smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did run into an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal tension and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the splitter. In some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway through the board before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out (with the saw off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other end to complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and then (somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the splitter/guard. I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones would have jammed around the splitter, but I can say for certain that none of the lighter ones did.

I have a 24 tooth ripping blade, but it is in serious need of sharpening. (In fact, I dropped it off at a saw and knife shop this morning) The 24 tooth cuts a wider kerf than the D1040X, so I might not have had the binding problem, but I don't think it was sharp enough to have given me such a clean edge. I have read about internal stresses causing kickback and other issues, but this was the first time that I actually experienced it first hand - not kickback, but the closing of the kerf on the splitter.

In any case, the ripping is done, I now have to wait for a decent dado set to magically appear in my shop so that I can start on the grooves and stub-tenons.

In the meantime, I'm going to build a *real* cross-cut sled to replace one I made years ago when I had even less of a clue than I have now. It works, but just barely, and it's not big enough for the MDF panels I'll need for the kitchen doors.

Don't write the darker poplar off entirely. Some of it it is pretty. In fact, poplar gets kind of a bad rap for being a featureless, utility wood and it can stain up very nicely.

Our son is a construction superintendent for an an area company. He was building an office building in Bentonville, AR that had some pretty nice conference rooms. He called me one evening and asked me about poplar because the architect had specified poplar for a lot of the conference room trim, chair rails, etc. I asked how it was going to be finished and he read the finish spec from his plans. I asked him if he had faith in his finisher; and also ask if he was going to pre-treat the wood before staining. He had previous good-history with the finisher and I just said "get out of his way."

He called a week or so later and said the finish in the rooms was beautiful.. I got to go down a month or two later and he was right. The architect and finisher turned lowly poplar into a cherry look-alike.

RonB

"John McCoy" wrote in message
. ..

DerbyDad03 wrote in
:

I mic'd the blade and the splitter. They both read 3/32" with a
digital micrometer that reads down to 1/64". It seems like it wouldn't
take too much movement to get things to bind up.

You do realize that the entire purpose of the splitter is for
the wood to bind on the splitter before it binds on the blade,
right? I would never consider ripping without a splitter (or
riving knife), _especially_ if I knew that wood was likely to
close the kerf.

+1

John

On 2/4/15 10:07 AM, RonB wrote:
On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 2:27:48 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping
about 100 linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces
ranged in length from a few that were over 60" to large number
between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went
very smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did
run into an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal
tension and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around
the splitter. In some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway
through the board before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling
the boards back out (with the saw off, of course) flipping them
and coming in from the other end to complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards
aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and
then (somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the
splitter/guard. I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones
would have jammed around the splitter, but I can say for certain
that none of the lighter ones did.

I have a 24 tooth ripping blade, but it is in serious need of
sharpening. (In fact, I dropped it off at a saw and knife shop this
morning) The 24 tooth cuts a wider kerf than the D1040X, so I might
not have had the binding problem, but I don't think it was sharp
enough to have given me such a clean edge. I have read about
internal stresses causing kickback and other issues, but this was
the first time that I actually experienced it first hand - not
kickback, but the closing of the kerf on the splitter.

In any case, the ripping is done, I now have to wait for a decent
dado set to magically appear in my shop so that I can start on the
grooves and stub-tenons.

In the meantime, I'm going to build a *real* cross-cut sled to
replace one I made years ago when I had even less of a clue than I
have now. It works, but just barely, and it's not big enough for
the MDF panels I'll need for the kitchen doors.

Don't write the darker poplar off entirely. Some of it it is pretty.
In fact, poplar gets kind of a bad rap for being a featureless,
utility wood and it can stain up very nicely.

Our son is a construction superintendent for an an area company. He
was building an office building in Bentonville, AR that had some
pretty nice conference rooms. He called me one evening and asked me
about poplar because the architect had specified poplar for a lot of
the conference room trim, chair rails, etc. I asked how it was
going to be finished and he read the finish spec from his plans. I
asked him if he had faith in his finisher; and also ask if he was
going to pre-treat the wood before staining. He had previous
good-history with the finisher and I just said "get out of his way."

He called a week or so later and said the finish in the rooms was
beautiful. I got to go down a month or two later and he was right.
The architect and finisher turned lowly poplar into a cherry
look-alike.

RonB


I love poplar and use it often, but I only use it for painted projects.
I call it snot-wood for a reason. As you say, it is a beautiful wood...
until you run into a one of its infamous green-yellow streaks and then
you're screwed.

Perhaps this particular supplier offers cherry-picked (PUN!) stock that
doesn't have any snot-wood in it. But around here, I've found I end up
having to order twice as much poplar as I would a more expensive wood,
so I usually just go with birch or maple to avaoid the hassle of cutting
around all the snot.

BTW, I'm curious if the "cherry look-alike" finish you mentioned is the
real cherry as in a natural blonde that patinas over time or what Ikea
considers "cherry" which is something stained to be the color of the
skin of the cherry fruit. Like this...

http://goo.gl/YDMWH4


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 at 11:07:20 AM UTC-5, RonB wrote:
On Monday, February 2, 2015 at 2:27:48 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm learning stuff...

As my kitchen upgrade continues, I had the pleasure of ripping about 100 linear feet of 1 x 6 Poplar this weekend. The pieces ranged in length from a few that were over 60" to large number between 25" and 35".

I was using a 40 tooth GP blade, Freud D1040X. The ripping went very smoothly and I got a pretty good edge on all boards, but I did run into an interesting (at least to me) situation.

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal tension and the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the splitter. In some cases I wasn't able to rip more than halfway through the board before it would bind up. Early on I was pulling the boards back out (with the saw off, of course) flipping them and coming in from the other end to complete the rip.

I eventually got to the point where I was putting the darker boards aside, ripping the "lighter" ones with the splitter installed, and then (somewhat nervously) ripping the darker ones without the splitter/guard. I don't know for sure that all of the darker ones would have jammed around the splitter, but I can say for certain that none of the lighter ones did.

I have a 24 tooth ripping blade, but it is in serious need of sharpening. (In fact, I dropped it off at a saw and knife shop this morning) The 24 tooth cuts a wider kerf than the D1040X, so I might not have had the binding problem, but I don't think it was sharp enough to have given me such a clean edge. I have read about internal stresses causing kickback and other issues, but this was the first time that I actually experienced it first hand - not kickback, but the closing of the kerf on the splitter.

In any case, the ripping is done, I now have to wait for a decent dado set to magically appear in my shop so that I can start on the grooves and stub-tenons.

In the meantime, I'm going to build a *real* cross-cut sled to replace one I made years ago when I had even less of a clue than I have now. It works, but just barely, and it's not big enough for the MDF panels I'll need for the kitchen doors.
.....
Don't write the darker poplar off entirely. Some of it it is pretty. In fact, poplar gets kind of a bad rap for being a featureless, utility wood and it can stain up very nicely.

....snip...

I'm not sure where you got the impression that I was "writing off the darker poplar". I merely mentioned that it acted differently while ripping, so I used a different process to rip it, i.e. no splitter.

It's all going to be painted, so the original color is not an issue for me.

(BTW...I'm glad it all worked out nicely for your son)

In article ,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

I learned that the darker the Poplar, the greater the internal tension and
the more apt that the kerf was going to close around the splitter.

I've never seen that with poplar, but our northern version may be
different.

Hickory, OTOH...

djb

--
³Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness
sobered, but stupid lasts forever.² -- Aristophanes

On 2/4/2015 10:07 AM, RonB wrote:
Don't write the darker poplar off entirely. Some of it it is pretty. In fact, poplar gets kind of a bad rap for being a featureless, utility wood and it can stain up very nicely.

True, dat.

I do find that a dark gel stain works best with poplar though,
particularly if there is much heartwood in the project.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/5/2015 7:37 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/4/2015 10:07 AM, RonB wrote:
Don't write the darker poplar off entirely. Some of it it is pretty.
In fact, poplar gets kind of a bad rap for being a featureless,
utility wood and it can stain up very nicely.

True, dat.

I do find that a dark gel stain works best with poplar though,
particularly if there is much heartwood in the project.


Some furniture manufacturers will use stained poplar in place of walnut
when the part is not in a prime viewing location.
Reinforcements/bracing that might sometimes be visible.