It's a little late to ask at this point, as I've already glued three of
the four assemblies with the most dowels, but I've noticed some
inconsistencies.

I'm doing this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/

to make four of these:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/

I'm only using glue for the top and bottom rails, plus two of the eight
"rungs" in-between. To leave as little work to do as possible during the
open time of the glue, I first inserted all of the dowels that will not
be glued, along with their respective "rungs".

The glue is Titebond I, the dowels store-bought, 3/8", fluted.

I drizzle some glue into each hole in the first stile and spread it onto
the walls of the hole with a thin metal rod. Then I insert the dowels
and tap them in with a mallet. I do the same procedure on the first end
of each rail. I can usually wiggle the parts together without any added
persuasion.

The second side is a different story, as I have to mate all of the
dowels and holes at once. Beyond getting everything aligned, I think the
slightly greater "waiting" time after applying the glue swells the wood
inside the holes. (on the first side, I can apply the glue for each
joint, then immediately put the parts together).

In any case, last night I glued up the third ladder assembly. There was
a little more squeeze-out than I had expected on two of the joints, and
I took a minute to wipe it down. (in previous projects I didn't worry as
much, as all the parts were prefinished).

Possibly because of that (short) delay, I had a heck of a time getting
the joints together, resorting to a heavier rubber mallet and some
pretty energetic pounding. It worked out OK in the end, but it was
worrisome at the time.

So I'm wondering if this is just par for the course and working quickly
is the only recommendation, or if there are any other tips anyone can
offer.

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On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:45:34 AM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote:
It's a little late to ask at this point, as I've already glued three of

the four assemblies with the most dowels, but I've noticed some

inconsistencies.



Are you using clamps to squeeze your rails tight to your stiles after you glue? It seems risky not to glue everything at once, square it, and clamp it.

On 8/12/2014 11:58 AM, Michael wrote:
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:45:34 AM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote:
It's a little late to ask at this point, as I've already glued three of

the four assemblies with the most dowels, but I've noticed some

inconsistencies.



Are you using clamps to squeeze your rails tight to your stiles after you glue? It seems risky not to glue everything at once, square it, and clamp it.

I'm not using clamps per se, but I am clamping and squaring the assembly
with a jig and wedges:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/

The jig consists of two straight-edges screwed down to the work surface
at right angles to one another. Small blocks of 1x2 and shims provide
the clamping.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/

The first two assemblies went together square with no adjusting. The
third was the tiniest bit out; there was a gap of maybe 1/32 between one
leg and the jig. I used a clamp to snug that up and then applied the
wedges as before.

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On 8/12/2014 10:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

The glue is Titebond I, the dowels store-bought, 3/8", fluted.

Open time appears to be your enemy.

Use a glue with an longer "open" time on the difficult side. Titebond
"extend" is good to have on hand.

As previously noted, good clamps can do a better job of getting the
parts together, particularly with a rubber mallet, which has too much
bounce back, compared to a dead blow mallet, which takes advantage of
inertia.

Don't have a dead blow mallet? Should be your next purchase if you're
both fitting and glueing parts.


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 8/12/2014 11:06 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 8/12/2014 11:58 AM, Michael wrote:
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:45:34 AM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote:
It's a little late to ask at this point, as I've already glued three of

the four assemblies with the most dowels, but I've noticed some

inconsistencies.



Are you using clamps to squeeze your rails tight to your stiles after
you glue? It seems risky not to glue everything at once, square it,
and clamp it.

I'm not using clamps per se, but I am clamping and squaring the assembly
with a jig and wedges:

Nothing works quite like clamps. You get a lot of pressure with out
pounding.

On 8/12/2014 10:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
It's a little late to ask at this point, as I've already glued three of
the four assemblies with the most dowels, but I've noticed some
inconsistencies.

I'm doing this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/


to make four of these:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/


I'm only using glue for the top and bottom rails, plus two of the eight
"rungs" in-between. To leave as little work to do as possible during the
open time of the glue, I first inserted all of the dowels that will not
be glued, along with their respective "rungs".

The glue is Titebond I, the dowels store-bought, 3/8", fluted.

I drizzle some glue into each hole in the first stile and spread it onto
the walls of the hole with a thin metal rod. Then I insert the dowels
and tap them in with a mallet. I do the same procedure on the first end
of each rail. I can usually wiggle the parts together without any added
persuasion.

The second side is a different story, as I have to mate all of the
dowels and holes at once. Beyond getting everything aligned, I think the
slightly greater "waiting" time after applying the glue swells the wood
inside the holes. (on the first side, I can apply the glue for each
joint, then immediately put the parts together).

In any case, last night I glued up the third ladder assembly. There was
a little more squeeze-out than I had expected on two of the joints, and
I took a minute to wipe it down. (in previous projects I didn't worry as
much, as all the parts were prefinished).

Possibly because of that (short) delay, I had a heck of a time getting
the joints together, resorting to a heavier rubber mallet and some
pretty energetic pounding. It worked out OK in the end, but it was
worrisome at the time.

So I'm wondering if this is just par for the course and working quickly
is the only recommendation, or if there are any other tips anyone can
offer.

Once the glue touches the other side of the joint it begins to set.
With all of those dowels you have a huge amount of friction to overcome.
Add to that glue that is setting and things get interesting.

An extended open time glue can help.

ALSO, Your dowels have ridges around the perimeter, ideally this allows
excess glue AND air to escape. Works OK with a few dowels going
together quickly but not so well when that are a bunch.

I flatten one side of the dowels with a disk sander to make a bigger
path for the glue and air to escape. That will probably help more than
anything.

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

It's a little late to ask at this point, as I've already glued three of
the four assemblies with the most dowels, but I've noticed some
inconsistencies.

I'm doing this:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/

to make four of these:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/

I'm only using glue for the top and bottom rails, plus two of the eight
"rungs" in-between. To leave as little work to do as possible during the
open time of the glue, I first inserted all of the dowels that will not
be glued, along with their respective "rungs".

The glue is Titebond I, the dowels store-bought, 3/8", fluted.

I drizzle some glue into each hole in the first stile and spread it onto
the walls of the hole with a thin metal rod. Then I insert the dowels
and tap them in with a mallet. I do the same procedure on the first end
of each rail. I can usually wiggle the parts together without any added
persuasion.

The second side is a different story, as I have to mate all of the
dowels and holes at once. Beyond getting everything aligned, I think the
slightly greater "waiting" time after applying the glue swells the wood
inside the holes. (on the first side, I can apply the glue for each
joint, then immediately put the parts together).

In any case, last night I glued up the third ladder assembly. There was
a little more squeeze-out than I had expected on two of the joints, and
I took a minute to wipe it down. (in previous projects I didn't worry as
much, as all the parts were prefinished).

Possibly because of that (short) delay, I had a heck of a time getting
the joints together, resorting to a heavier rubber mallet and some
pretty energetic pounding. It worked out OK in the end, but it was
worrisome at the time.

So I'm wondering if this is just par for the course and working quickly
is the only recommendation, or if there are any other tips anyone can
offer.

Clamps work better than hammers. IME, YMMV, HTH, HAND. Et cetera.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 1:32:12 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:


As previously noted, good clamps can do a better job of getting the

parts together, particularly with a rubber mallet, which has too much

bounce back, compared to a dead blow mallet, which takes advantage of

inertia.

After application, how much time does he have to get the piece set up? I looked up the specs on the Titebond web site, and I can't find it.

On 8/12/2014 2:32 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/12/2014 10:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

The glue is Titebond I, the dowels store-bought, 3/8", fluted.

Open time appears to be your enemy.

Use a glue with an longer "open" time on the difficult side. Titebond
"extend" is good to have on hand.

As previously noted, good clamps can do a better job of getting the
parts together, particularly with a rubber mallet, which has too much
bounce back, compared to a dead blow mallet, which takes advantage of
inertia.

Don't have a dead blow mallet? Should be your next purchase if you're
both fitting and glueing parts.

Thanks. Interesting suggestions. I suppose I will have to find a space
on the board for yet another mallet. And a longer open time glue sounds
like a good idea for someone at my stage of anxiety, uh, woodworking.

As for "good" strong clamps, my selection is limited. I have a couple of
Cabinet Masters and some pipe clamps. But the self-squaring "jig" has
been of great comfort to me. I suppose I could rebuild it with "gaps"
for the clamp jaws, but I think that might have to wait for a future
project. I have only one more "ladder" to glue up, so I'll probably just
tweak the system for now.



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On 8/12/2014 2:55 PM, Leon wrote:
On 8/12/2014 11:06 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 8/12/2014 11:58 AM, Michael wrote:
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:45:34 AM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote:
It's a little late to ask at this point, as I've already glued three of

the four assemblies with the most dowels, but I've noticed some

inconsistencies.



Are you using clamps to squeeze your rails tight to your stiles after
you glue? It seems risky not to glue everything at once, square it,
and clamp it.

I'm not using clamps per se, but I am clamping and squaring the assembly
with a jig and wedges:

Nothing works quite like clamps. You get a lot of pressure with out
pounding.

I'll have to try that, but maybe on the next project, and maybe after I
find a deal on a couple more good clamps.


---
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On 8/12/2014 3:01 PM, Leon wrote:

I flatten one side of the dowels with a disk sander to make a bigger
path for the glue and air to escape. That will probably help more than
anything.

Well, I don't believe I would ever have thought of that on my own. I'm
glad I asked. I don't have a disk sander, but I'm sure I could come up
with some way to accomplish it. Maybe a vee shaped recess with a stop to
hold the dowel, and a block plane? How much of a flat do you make?

Have you still got fingerprints, by the way? Those are awfully small
objects to hold against a disk sander.

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On 8/12/2014 3:39 PM, dadiOH wrote:

Clamps work better than hammers.

Huh. But you do miss out on the psychic benefits of hitting something.

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"Greg Guarino" wrote:

And a longer open time glue sounds like a good idea for someone at
my stage of anxiety, uh, woodworking.
----------------------------------------
Epoxy is your friend, 25 Min @ 77F pot life.

Lew

On 8/12/2014 3:41 PM, Michael wrote:
After application, how much time does he have to get the piece set up? I looked up the specs on the Titebond web site, and I can't find it.

Except for the last assembly I did, I doubt there was more than three or
four minutes between glue application (in the first hole) and fitting
the pieces together.

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Greg Guarino wrote in
:


Well, I don't believe I would ever have thought of that on my own. I'm
glad I asked. I don't have a disk sander, but I'm sure I could come up
with some way to accomplish it. Maybe a vee shaped recess with a stop
to hold the dowel, and a block plane? How much of a flat do you make?

Have you still got fingerprints, by the way? Those are awfully small
objects to hold against a disk sander.


I saw a tip in an old WOOD magazine where a fellow drilled a hole in the
end of a piece of stock to hold a dowel. He then used the bandsaw to cut
a groove in the dowel.

I'd probably go for the groove and stop, as it would seem to be much
faster to make.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 8/12/2014 2:56 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 8/12/2014 2:55 PM, Leon wrote:
On 8/12/2014 11:06 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 8/12/2014 11:58 AM, Michael wrote:
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:45:34 AM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote:
It's a little late to ask at this point, as I've already glued
three of

the four assemblies with the most dowels, but I've noticed some

inconsistencies.



Are you using clamps to squeeze your rails tight to your stiles after
you glue? It seems risky not to glue everything at once, square it,
and clamp it.

I'm not using clamps per se, but I am clamping and squaring the assembly
with a jig and wedges:

Nothing works quite like clamps. You get a lot of pressure with out
pounding.

I'll have to try that, but maybe on the next project, and maybe after I
find a deal on a couple more good clamps.


Seriously, make a flat spot in the side of the dowel too it will relieve
the compression that you are working against.




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On 8/12/2014 2:41 PM, Michael wrote:
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 1:32:12 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:


As previously noted, good clamps can do a better job of getting the

parts together, particularly with a rubber mallet, which has too much

bounce back, compared to a dead blow mallet, which takes advantage of

inertia.

After application, how much time does he have to get the piece set up? I looked up the specs on the Titebond web site, and I can't find it.



IIRC the extend glue allow up to another 3~5 minutes of open time over
regular glue.

On 8/12/2014 3:00 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 8/12/2014 3:01 PM, Leon wrote:

I flatten one side of the dowels with a disk sander to make a bigger
path for the glue and air to escape. That will probably help more than
anything.

Well, I don't believe I would ever have thought of that on my own. I'm
glad I asked. I don't have a disk sander, but I'm sure I could come up
with some way to accomplish it. Maybe a vee shaped recess with a stop to
hold the dowel, and a block plane? How much of a flat do you make?

the flat spot is only one way, easy for me, you could also drill a hole
down the center. It only needs to be large enough to relieve the
compression that builds up in the hole.





Have you still got fingerprints, by the way? Those are awfully small
objects to hold against a disk sander.

I use domino's now. ;~) the beauty to the domino is that the side that
receives the Domino first is an exact fit. A hammer over comes the
resistance with each one placed one at a time. When bring the mating
side though I use the elongated slot setting on the Domino mortiser to
effectively relieve all possibility of compression.

IIRC I used my ROS to flatten the sides of the dowels, It does not take
much at all. Hold the dowel with a pair of plyers.




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"Greg Guarino" wrote in message ...

So I'm wondering if this is just par for the course and working quickly is
the only recommendation, or if there are any other tips anyone can offer.

Instead of using something like Titebond, which is undoubtedly swelling the
dowels during the assembly time (they're designed to do that, when used with
a water-based glue), consider using something like Nexabond, which is not
water-based and will not cause swelling in the dowels.

Tom

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

On 8/12/2014 2:32 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/12/2014 10:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

The glue is Titebond I, the dowels store-bought, 3/8", fluted.

Open time appears to be your enemy.

Use a glue with an longer "open" time on the difficult side. Titebond
"extend" is good to have on hand.

As previously noted, good clamps can do a better job of getting the
parts together, particularly with a rubber mallet, which has too much
bounce back, compared to a dead blow mallet, which takes advantage of
inertia.

Don't have a dead blow mallet? Should be your next purchase if you're
both fitting and glueing parts.

Thanks. Interesting suggestions. I suppose I will have to find a space
on the board for yet another mallet.

Clamps beat mallets everytime.

And a longer open time glue sounds
like a good idea for someone at my stage of anxiety, uh, woodworking.

Epoxy takes a _long_ time to set up. So does plastic resin glue
(Weldwood). So does resorcinol.

As for "good" strong clamps, my selection is limited. I have a couple of
Cabinet Masters and some pipe clamps. But the self-squaring "jig" has
been of great comfort to me. I suppose I could rebuild it with "gaps"
for the clamp jaws, but I think that might have to wait for a future
project. I have only one more "ladder" to glue up, so I'll probably just
tweak the system for now.

You could use clamps to assemble, then put it in your jig to square it up.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message

On 8/12/2014 3:01 PM, Leon wrote:

I flatten one side of the dowels with a disk sander to make a bigger
path for the glue and air to escape. That will probably help more
than
anything.

Well, I don't believe I would ever have thought of that on my own. I'm
glad I asked. I don't have a disk sander, but I'm sure I could come up
with some way to accomplish it. Maybe a vee shaped recess with a stop to
hold the dowel, and a block plane? How much of a flat do you make?

Have you still got fingerprints, by the way? Those are awfully small
objects to hold against a disk sander.

So use a pocket knife. Or a chisel. Or a rasp.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 8/12/2014 2:54 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 8/12/2014 2:32 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/12/2014 10:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

The glue is Titebond I, the dowels store-bought, 3/8", fluted.

Open time appears to be your enemy.

Use a glue with an longer "open" time on the difficult side. Titebond
"extend" is good to have on hand.

As previously noted, good clamps can do a better job of getting the
parts together, particularly with a rubber mallet, which has too much
bounce back, compared to a dead blow mallet, which takes advantage of
inertia.

Don't have a dead blow mallet? Should be your next purchase if you're
both fitting and glueing parts.

Thanks. Interesting suggestions. I suppose I will have to find a space
on the board for yet another mallet. And a longer open time glue sounds
like a good idea for someone at my stage of anxiety, uh, woodworking.

As for "good" strong clamps, my selection is limited. I have a couple of
Cabinet Masters and some pipe clamps. But the self-squaring "jig" has
been of great comfort to me. I suppose I could rebuild it with "gaps"
for the clamp jaws, but I think that might have to wait for a future
project. I have only one more "ladder" to glue up, so I'll probably just
tweak the system for now.



Keep in mind also the more precise you build the less you have to work
about keeping the work square. Square cut joints will naturally square
the assembly as you apply the clamp pressure.

The head board pics that I posted a few days ago were only squared up by
applying clamp pressure to the 4 rails where they met the 2 stiles.
Basically if the joint is closed the angle is as it was cut to be.

On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:06:34 AM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote:
I'm not using clamps per se, but I am clamping and squaring the assembly with a jig and wedges: https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/ The jig consists of two straight-edges screwed down to the work surface at right angles to one another. Small blocks of 1x2 and shims provide the clamping. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/

The first two assemblies went together square with no adjusting. The third was the tiniest bit out;

I've ocassionally used wedges for similar clamping. Driving one wedge in, from one direction, only, sometimes causes the clamped piece to move, along with the wedge, as the wedge is being driven snug. If this is the sort of misaligning you're speaking of, with the third assembly, then it would be best to use two wedges, at each point, and snug them from different directions, so that the clamped piece doesn't move out of alignment. This double wedging approach is used in other circumstances, also, somewhat like shimming door jams (from both sides of the doorway).

Sonny

On 8/12/2014 11:27 PM, Leon wrote:
On 8/12/2014 2:56 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 8/12/2014 2:55 PM, Leon wrote:
On 8/12/2014 11:06 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 8/12/2014 11:58 AM, Michael wrote:
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 10:45:34 AM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote:
It's a little late to ask at this point, as I've already glued
three of

the four assemblies with the most dowels, but I've noticed some

inconsistencies.



Are you using clamps to squeeze your rails tight to your stiles after
you glue? It seems risky not to glue everything at once, square it,
and clamp it.

I'm not using clamps per se, but I am clamping and squaring the
assembly
with a jig and wedges:

Nothing works quite like clamps. You get a lot of pressure with out
pounding.

I'll have to try that, but maybe on the next project, and maybe after I
find a deal on a couple more good clamps.


Seriously, make a flat spot in the side of the dowel too it will relieve
the compression that you are working against.

I figure I have only ten dowels to reshape, so I do plan to do it, even
if I don't find an efficient method.


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On 8/13/2014 9:07 AM, Leon wrote:
On 8/12/2014 2:54 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 8/12/2014 2:32 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/12/2014 10:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

The glue is Titebond I, the dowels store-bought, 3/8", fluted.

Open time appears to be your enemy.

Use a glue with an longer "open" time on the difficult side. Titebond
"extend" is good to have on hand.

As previously noted, good clamps can do a better job of getting the
parts together, particularly with a rubber mallet, which has too much
bounce back, compared to a dead blow mallet, which takes advantage of
inertia.

Don't have a dead blow mallet? Should be your next purchase if you're
both fitting and glueing parts.

Thanks. Interesting suggestions. I suppose I will have to find a space
on the board for yet another mallet. And a longer open time glue sounds
like a good idea for someone at my stage of anxiety, uh, woodworking.

As for "good" strong clamps, my selection is limited. I have a couple of
Cabinet Masters and some pipe clamps. But the self-squaring "jig" has
been of great comfort to me. I suppose I could rebuild it with "gaps"
for the clamp jaws, but I think that might have to wait for a future
project. I have only one more "ladder" to glue up, so I'll probably just
tweak the system for now.



Keep in mind also the more precise you build the less you have to work
about keeping the work square. Square cut joints will naturally square
the assembly as you apply the clamp pressure.

The head board pics that I posted a few days ago were only squared up by
applying clamp pressure to the 4 rails where they met the 2 stiles.
Basically if the joint is closed the angle is as it was cut to be.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, my tools and skills have resulted -
at least in previous projects - in a bit of inaccuracy. I have been
gratified to find that these "ladders" have gone together square
"naturally", as you suggest they would if cut properly. The worst one so
far needed to be tweaked perhaps a thirty-second. Still, it was nice to
be able to see and check those good results quickly by lining the work
up with the jig.

I made almost all of the cuts for this project with a miter saw, but
this time I took some pains to set it up correctly, using a couple of
drafting triangles, a 1-2-3 block and a wixie box. It seems to have worked.

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On 8/13/2014 9:14 AM, Sonny wrote:
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 11:06:34 AM UTC-5, Greg Guarino wrote:
I'm not using clamps per se, but I am clamping and squaring the assembly with a jig and wedges: https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/ The jig consists of two straight-edges screwed down to the work surface at right angles to one another. Small blocks of 1x2 and shims provide the clamping. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...1490/lightbox/

The first two assemblies went together square with no adjusting. The third was the tiniest bit out;

I've ocassionally used wedges for similar clamping. Driving one wedge in, from one direction, only, sometimes causes the clamped piece to move, along with the wedge, as the wedge is being driven snug. If this is the sort of misaligning you're speaking of, with the third assembly, then it would be best to use two wedges, at each point, and snug them from different directions, so that the clamped piece doesn't move out of alignment. This double wedging approach is used in other circumstances, also, somewhat like shimming door jams (from both sides of the doorway).

Sonny

My second "wedge" was fixed, but I set them up such that driving the
movable wedge in could only tend to move the work *into* the squaring
jig, not away.

What I meant was that when I put the first two units into the squaring
jig, they lined up perfectly right off. The third had one "leg" away
from the end of the jig by a very small amount, maybe a thirty-second. A
very slight amount of pressure got it perfect.

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On 8/12/2014 11:48 PM, tdacon wrote:


"Greg Guarino" wrote in message ...

So I'm wondering if this is just par for the course and working
quickly is the only recommendation, or if there are any other tips
anyone can offer.

Instead of using something like Titebond, which is undoubtedly swelling
the dowels during the assembly time (they're designed to do that, when
used with a water-based glue), consider using something like Nexabond,
which is not water-based and will not cause swelling in the dowels.

Tom

I guess it would behoove me to learn something about glues. The first
thing I wonder is about squeeze-out. I know (sort-of) how to deal with
it with Titebond, but epoxy, nexabond, polyurethane?

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On 8/12/2014 3:00 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Well, I don't believe I would ever have thought of that on my own. I'm
glad I asked. I don't have a disk sander, but I'm sure I could come up
with some way to accomplish it. Maybe a vee shaped recess with a stop to
hold the dowel, and a block plane? How much of a flat do you make?

No need to get fancy. Sometimes all you need is to squeeze them slightly
with a pair of pliers. With the right pliers you can even get a groove
of sorts for the glue to escape.

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On 8/13/2014 9:15 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 8/13/2014 9:07 AM, Leon wrote:
On 8/12/2014 2:54 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 8/12/2014 2:32 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/12/2014 10:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

The glue is Titebond I, the dowels store-bought, 3/8", fluted.

Open time appears to be your enemy.

Use a glue with an longer "open" time on the difficult side. Titebond
"extend" is good to have on hand.

As previously noted, good clamps can do a better job of getting the
parts together, particularly with a rubber mallet, which has too much
bounce back, compared to a dead blow mallet, which takes advantage of
inertia.

Don't have a dead blow mallet? Should be your next purchase if you're
both fitting and glueing parts.

Thanks. Interesting suggestions. I suppose I will have to find a space
on the board for yet another mallet. And a longer open time glue sounds
like a good idea for someone at my stage of anxiety, uh, woodworking.

As for "good" strong clamps, my selection is limited. I have a couple of
Cabinet Masters and some pipe clamps. But the self-squaring "jig" has
been of great comfort to me. I suppose I could rebuild it with "gaps"
for the clamp jaws, but I think that might have to wait for a future
project. I have only one more "ladder" to glue up, so I'll probably just
tweak the system for now.



Keep in mind also the more precise you build the less you have to work
about keeping the work square. Square cut joints will naturally square
the assembly as you apply the clamp pressure.

The head board pics that I posted a few days ago were only squared up by
applying clamp pressure to the 4 rails where they met the 2 stiles.
Basically if the joint is closed the angle is as it was cut to be.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, my tools and skills have resulted -
at least in previous projects - in a bit of inaccuracy. I have been
gratified to find that these "ladders" have gone together square
"naturally", as you suggest they would if cut properly. The worst one so
far needed to be tweaked perhaps a thirty-second. Still, it was nice to
be able to see and check those good results quickly by lining the work
up with the jig.

I made almost all of the cuts for this project with a miter saw, but
this time I took some pains to set it up correctly, using a couple of
drafting triangles, a 1-2-3 block and a wixie box. It seems to have worked.


Practice makes perfect!

FWIW your doing well, IMHO.

On 8/13/2014 9:47 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I guess it would behoove me to learn something about glues.

Can't hurt at all.

That said, It's not usually the swelling of the dowels that is the
problem - and it's biscuits that are purposely designed to swell, not
necessarily dowels.

AAMOF, with the initial coating (and providing the piston effect is
mitigated) you may notice a slight lubrication effect at first ... until
the glue starts to set.

Also, you may also have this same sticky problem, from exceeding the
open time slightly, when gluing mortise and tenon joints that are sloppy
enough that the piston effect is not an issue.

IOW, and with most hardwood dowels, I question, from experience, that it
is water based glue at the root of the problem.

Non water based glues, like Nexabond are great for smaller and/or
special applications, but for gluing most furniture and cabinet
projects, prepare to dent the hell out of your budget, and possibly
still not solve the issue if you exceed the open time.

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Firstly, thanks for the tip about flattening one side of the dowels.
That made things much easier. And I thought of a very simple way to do
it efficiently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtk7...ature=youtu.be

The "jig" probably took all of a minute to make. As an added bonus, my
fingers are just as long as before I started.

Subject

Got a vice?

Got a 10" Flat ******* File?

The rest is an exercise in flattening.

Lew

On 8/13/2014 9:59 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
Subject

Got a vice?

Got a 10" Flat ******* File?

The rest is an exercise in flattening.

Lew


I wanted a way to avoid all of the clamping and unclamping, and found one.

Lew Hodgett wrote:

Subject

Got a vice?

Got a 10" Flat ******* File?

The rest is an exercise in flattening.

Lew
-------------------------------------------

"Greg Guarino" wrote:


I wanted a way to avoid all of the clamping and unclamping, and
found one.
-------------------------------------------------------
So did I.

Lew

In the time before time, before biscuits and Dominoes there reigned the dowel.

We made our own dowels many a time as they could be hard to get. Without a thickness planer, it was too hard to make great fitting splines quickly, but you could take your calipers and find rod stock that would work somewhere and buy a couple of sticks that would last a long time. If the stock was too large, we simply put a piece in a drill chuck and "reduced it" with a piece of 80gr. You would be surprised how well that worked.

For striations, I came up with my own method. I drilled several holes in a straight line from edge to edge (not lengthwise) and cut the board in two down the middle of the holes. I put the dowels I had cut to length into my holding jigs and just used masking tape to hold them into the concave cut outs in the board. I could easily get two lengthwise air/glue relief cuts on each dowel by just touching it to a band saw blade, since I only needed about 1/32" deep.

Using a piece of 1x4 scrap, I could about 5 dowels per board half, and the dowels were cut to length and ready to go when I pulled the tape off. This really just took a few minutes to make a bunch. The beauty is that you aren't confined to one size of dowel and this method will work on any size wood rod you find that matches up to your drill bits. When I made larger, custom dowels, I used a piece of 2X6 for the holding jig and cut 3/4 dowels from rod stock. On these (used in making/repairing doors) I would rotate the dowel stock and cut a couple more striations on the opposing side of the first cuts.

That all came to me one day while in the shop and I couldn't get the dowels I wanted. Never seen anyone do it that way... but I can testify it works like a champ.

Robert

On 8/13/2014 8:36 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Firstly, thanks for the tip about flattening one side of the dowels.
That made things much easier. And I thought of a very simple way to do
it efficiently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtk7...ature=youtu.be

The "jig" probably took all of a minute to make. As an added bonus, my
fingers are just as long as before I started.


Good Idea but you probably only need to make 2 passes at the most. You
are only providing a passage for air and glue to escape.