I've never had occasion to use dye so don't know how strong a color one can
get.

I have need to get some work to a semi-gloss jet black. I had planned to
use black paint topped with poly - and if I can find some black, alkyd
enameI probably will - but I hate the idea of having to use acrylic...I
don't have spray equipment so will need something I can sand to get a nice
surface.

Would black dye get me a jet black? I don't mind wood texture showing but
not grain pattern. How about dye topped with poly that has some black tint
in it? Would light wood (eg, poplar) work better or a dark one (eg, walnut
or mahogany)? Maybe Peruvian walnut?

All opinions welcome but experience gets extra points

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 6/24/2014 6:37 AM, dadiOH wrote:
I've never had occasion to use dye so don't know how strong a color one can
get.

I have need to get some work to a semi-gloss jet black. I had planned to
use black paint topped with poly - and if I can find some black, alkyd
enameI probably will - but I hate the idea of having to use acrylic...I
don't have spray equipment so will need something I can sand to get a nice
surface.

Would black dye get me a jet black? I don't mind wood texture showing but
not grain pattern. How about dye topped with poly that has some black tint
in it? Would light wood (eg, poplar) work better or a dark one (eg, walnut
or mahogany)? Maybe Peruvian walnut?

All opinions welcome but experience gets extra points

Some years ago, well before I was the expert woodworker that I have so
recently become, I built a cubbyhole unit to go over a desk. It spans
the space between two armoires that we had had built by a local shop to
hold my music gear. The armoires were a cordovan dark maroon.

I decided to try to approximate the color of the armoires for the
cubbyhole unit. I bought four colors of dye; three powders and one
liquid (TransTint Cordovan). One of the powders was black.

I had kind of hoped that the Cordovan dye would be a good match by
itself. No such luck. I made a positively ridiculous number of samples.
At one point I had a 6' 1x2 with a different color "swatch" every three
inches, and that was *after* I had made a dozen or so separate pieces,
some with a different dye mix on each side.

One of the problems was getting the wood dark enough. That's why I
bought the black. At some point I believe I tried mixing as much black
powder as would dissolve in a small amount of alcohol, with no other
colors added. It was just another 3" of wood, after all.

If memory serves, this did produce somewhat blackened wood, but not
nearly what you seem to be describing. There were variations in color
and the grain was plainly visible. So if you give my expertise and
experience the weight they deserve...

.... well, you'll pretty much be back where you started, because the
characterization of my skills above is pure bunk. Having said that, I do
not believe that any mixture of the powdered black dye I bought will
give you the look I think you want. I made it "rich" enough that there
was still a little undissolved powder at the bottom; the solution was
saturated.

I think you need something that will obscure the wood, and - again,
consider the source - I don't think that's what dyes are good for.

Although I can easily see the difference between the color, sheen and
grain of my cubbyhole unit and the armoires, I get many compliments on
the match, so I guess it came out OK in the end. As an added plus, the
weeks of sample making - "I'm adding Eye of Newt tonight honey, and a
little Wolfsbane. Wish me luck!" - was a source of great mirth in the
Guarino household.



---
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"dadiOH" wrote in message

I've never had occasion to use dye so don't know how strong a color one
can get.

I have need to get some work to a semi-gloss jet black. I had planned to
use black paint topped with poly - and if I can find some black, alkyd
enameI probably will - but I hate the idea of having to use acrylic...I
don't have spray equipment so will need something I can sand to get a nice
surface.

Would black dye get me a jet black? I don't mind wood texture showing but
not grain pattern. How about dye topped with poly that has some black
tint in it? Would light wood (eg, poplar) work better or a dark one (eg,
walnut or mahogany)? Maybe Peruvian walnut?

All opinions welcome but experience gets extra points

Thank you, folks, black paint (or lacquer) it will be. I'd prefer the
lacquer, fast dry and less cat hair would get stuck in it Rattle cans
are even a bonus, easier to use on my project (some vanity face frames) than
even a pad.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

dadiOH wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in message

I've never had occasion to use dye so don't know how strong a color
one can get.

I have need to get some work to a semi-gloss jet black. I had
planned to use black paint topped with poly - and if I can find some
black, alkyd enameI probably will - but I hate the idea of having to
use acrylic...I don't have spray equipment so will need something I
can sand to get a nice surface.

Would black dye get me a jet black? I don't mind wood texture
showing but not grain pattern. How about dye topped with poly that
has some black tint in it? Would light wood (eg, poplar) work better
or a dark one (eg, walnut or mahogany)? Maybe Peruvian walnut?

All opinions welcome but experience gets extra points

Thank you, folks, black paint (or lacquer) it will be. I'd prefer the
lacquer, fast dry and less cat hair would get stuck in it Rattle
cans are even a bonus, easier to use on my project (some vanity face
frames) than even a pad.

You might be very disappointed. You're going to end up with a very thin
finish that does not fill at all. You might want to consider at least a
grain filler prior to painting.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message

dadiOH wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in message

I've never had occasion to use dye so don't know how strong a color
one can get.

I have need to get some work to a semi-gloss jet black. I had
planned to use black paint topped with poly - and if I can find some
black, alkyd enameI probably will - but I hate the idea of having to
use acrylic...I don't have spray equipment so will need something I
can sand to get a nice surface.

Would black dye get me a jet black? I don't mind wood texture
showing but not grain pattern. How about dye topped with poly that
has some black tint in it? Would light wood (eg, poplar) work better
or a dark one (eg, walnut or mahogany)? Maybe Peruvian walnut?

All opinions welcome but experience gets extra points

Thank you, folks, black paint (or lacquer) it will be. I'd prefer the
lacquer, fast dry and less cat hair would get stuck in it Rattle
cans are even a bonus, easier to use on my project (some vanity face
frames) than even a pad.

You might be very disappointed. You're going to end up with a very thin
finish that does not fill at all. You might want to consider at least a
grain filler prior to painting.

Not to worry, it will get filled. If I use lacquer I might use brushing Deft
to smooth up the surface, it builds fast and sands easy, then the color
coats. I'd be sure to check compatibility.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

I saw the subject "wood dye" and just couldn't help it, so sue me.

A fellow lost an eye in an accident, and was fitted with an eye made of
wood. (This makes the joke on topic.)

He became very self-conscious and something of a recluse. A friend
finally convinced him to try socializing again, so he went to a local
dance, but he stood back in the shadows while the fun passed him by.
Finally he noticed a pretty girl sitting alone and looking forlorn..
Looking closer, he saw that she had lost a leg and had an artificial one
to walk with. He thought to himself, "Since she's handicapped too,
maybe she'd dance with me."

So, screwing up his courage, he approached her and hesitantly asked her
if she would like to dance.

She looked up at him with a grateful smile and exclaimed, "Would I!
Would I!"

So he pointed his finger and shouted back, "Peg leg! Peg leg!"

On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 3:21:44 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

Not to worry, it will get filled. If I use lacquer I might use brushing Deft

to smooth up the surface, it builds fast and sands easy, then the color

coats. I'd be sure to check compatibility.

As a suggestion, use this instead:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Zinsser-1...1008/100398390

Applying lacquer, whether sprayed, brushed or padded won't do much to fill pores. It is a top coat. That is why in a traditional french polish finish you must have several coats to cut through. Trust me on this; the lacquer and subsequent build coats will only reflect and transfer the texture underneath the coating.

The above mentioned primer will sit on top of the wood because it has so many solvents suspended in the spray solution. It won't hide the pores, but if you brush a couple on, depending on the wood you can go a long way to mitigating their appearance. After all, you don't want it to look like plastic, right?

You can prime with this and immediately go to paint after an hour or so.

If you go to lacquer, wait 48 to 72 hours to let the alcohol in the primer completely dissipate. Shellac uses modified alcohol as a solvent/carrier, and lacquer uses lacquer thinner which is a hot (high VOC) petroleum product.. The two are not miscible and will not bind unless the primer is cured. BIN says 45 minutes or something along those lines... don't believe it when you switch products and solvent bases.

One more thing... in an earlier post you were thinking of putting urethane on top of paint. Don't do it! The resins in the paint will set up when cured and if they are high quality paints, they will NOT adhere properly. They may not even go on well. And when the urethane dries, it may craze. Not a good idea. If you are bound to use poly, buy the black stuff. Paint is a top coat made to resist humidity, movement, abrasion, adhesion of foreign substances (coca cola, water, bird poop, food, dirt, etc.) and it will certainly resist the adhesion of another coating. I have literally seen poly peel off oil based paint in sheets.

Woodworking poly isn't like the stuff Mike Marlow shoots on his vehicles. He shoots a specialized SYSTEM of coatings that he can paint, top coat, and all other kinds of stuff that he does and still maintain compatibility. That is a completely different animal, much more sophisticated in its engineering and the components are made to be applied to strict standards.

Not so with most wood coatings unless specially designed to do so. I don't personally know of any different types of finish top coats that are guaranteed to be compatible.

Robert