These clowns have revisionist views of what they do.
The General feels that modifying the encryption, and getting the
encryption values are fully legal because they go after foreign
entitities, but the reality is it went after our own people.

These are traitors to the American people, and they cloak it in
protection. Defeating our own encryption does not protect us. It
creates holes that open us up. If one foreign entity gets hold of that
flaw, all of our systems are at risk. Phone systems which use the RSA
key, financial systems which use the RSA key... lets assume power
systems also use it. I have not worked for the power systems but have to
assume they use the RSA vpn key...



--
Jeff

woodchucker wrote:
These clowns have revisionist views of what they do.
The General feels that modifying the encryption, and getting the
encryption values are fully legal because they go after foreign
entitities, but the reality is it went after our own people.

These are traitors to the American people, and they cloak it in
protection. Defeating our own encryption does not protect us. It
creates holes that open us up. If one foreign entity gets hold of that
flaw, all of our systems are at risk. Phone systems which use the RSA
key, financial systems which use the RSA key... lets assume power
systems also use it. I have not worked for the power systems but have
to assume they use the RSA vpn key...

Unfortunately, the country is full of stupid people these days who are not
just stupid, but lazy as well. They don't want to take the time and/or the
energy to understand (even at a superficial level), the risks of things like
this. History is lost on them. That backdoors have typically been
exploited. That codes have been cracked. But - tell them that what the
government wants to do is for their protection, and they roll over and sign
on to the program. It's easier that way. They can feel good about it.
Snowden means nothing to them. They don't realize that he was one
government employee who became disgruntled and exposed secrets of the
highest order. Fortunately - he is a good guy of sorts. Imagine if he had
malicious intents.

--

-Mike-

On 12/29/2013 11:35 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
woodchucker wrote:
These clowns have revisionist views of what they do.
The General feels that modifying the encryption, and getting the
encryption values are fully legal because they go after foreign
entitities, but the reality is it went after our own people.

These are traitors to the American people, and they cloak it in
protection. Defeating our own encryption does not protect us. It
creates holes that open us up. If one foreign entity gets hold of that
flaw, all of our systems are at risk. Phone systems which use the RSA
key, financial systems which use the RSA key... lets assume power
systems also use it. I have not worked for the power systems but have
to assume they use the RSA vpn key...

Unfortunately, the country is full of stupid people these days who are not
just stupid, but lazy as well. They don't want to take the time and/or the
energy to understand (even at a superficial level), the risks of things like
this. History is lost on them. That backdoors have typically been
exploited. That codes have been cracked. But - tell them that what the
government wants to do is for their protection, and they roll over and sign
on to the program. It's easier that way. They can feel good about it.
Snowden means nothing to them. They don't realize that he was one
government employee who became disgruntled and exposed secrets of the
highest order. Fortunately - he is a good guy of sorts. Imagine if he had
malicious intents.

Imagine what might happen if all of our systems were hacked, including
the bios of all systems. I believe this happened in Saudi Arabia or UAE,
can't remember, all of there systems had to be thrown out, as they could
not trust the bios.

Imagine the chaos here if every system were at risk.



In the interest of protecting us

--
Jeff

woodchucker wrote in
:

On 12/29/2013 11:35 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
woodchucker wrote:
These clowns have revisionist views of what they do.
The General feels that modifying the encryption, and
getting the encryption values are fully legal because
they go after foreign entitities, but the reality is it
went after our own people.

These are traitors to the American people, and they cloak
it in protection. Defeating our own encryption does not
protect us. It creates holes that open us up. If one
foreign entity gets hold of that flaw, all of our systems
are at risk. Phone systems which use the RSA key,
financial systems which use the RSA key... lets assume
power systems also use it. I have not worked for the
power systems but have to assume they use the RSA vpn
key...

Unfortunately, the country is full of stupid people these
days who are not just stupid, but lazy as well. They
don't want to take the time and/or the energy to
understand (even at a superficial level), the risks of
things like this. History is lost on them. That
backdoors have typically been exploited. That codes have
been cracked. But - tell them that what the government
wants to do is for their protection, and they roll over
and sign on to the program. It's easier that way. They
can feel good about it. Snowden means nothing to them.
They don't realize that he was one government employee who
became disgruntled and exposed secrets of the highest
order. Fortunately - he is a good guy of sorts. Imagine
if he had malicious intents.

Imagine what might happen if all of our systems were
hacked, including the bios of all systems. I believe this
happened in Saudi Arabia or UAE, can't remember, all of
there systems had to be thrown out, as they could not trust
the bios.

Imagine the chaos here if every system were at risk.



In the interest of protecting us


There is speculation that is exactly what happened with the
Trusted Platform Module (TPM).

What the government has done has eroded the trust that is
necessary for for both businesses and individuals to feel
secure. This is already being seen in contracts that now
require data to be stored off-shore and will cost American
companies billions of dollars. Telco's are feeling the heat as
well as developers of closed source software. Closing all of
the backdoors and coming clean is the only way to restore that
trust, neither of which is likely to happen.

The biggest problem as you have said is the uninformed,
apathetic citizen. They accept this spying by both
corporations and government as part of everyday life. Many
grew up in an age where they had never had any privacy because
of the Internet.

I asked a co-worker about their iPhone (Android is just as
bad) the other day. If I were to follow her around all day
long, make note of her travels, log all of her calls, log her
purchases, intercept her email and texts, would it be OK? I
suspect I would be arrested for stalking but it's fine if
Google or Apple or your phone provider does this.

Society needs to revolt against this wholesale collection of
data and the perpetrators in government should be arrested,
jailed and convicted. The longer it goes on the harder it will
be to fix the problem if we're not already past the point of
no return.

Good reading on this subject can be found at:
http://www.schneier.com

Larry

On 12/29/2013 12:37 PM, Larry wrote:
woodchucker wrote in
:

On 12/29/2013 11:35 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
woodchucker wrote:
These clowns have revisionist views of what they do.
The General feels that modifying the encryption, and
getting the encryption values are fully legal because
they go after foreign entitities, but the reality is it
went after our own people.

These are traitors to the American people, and they cloak
it in protection. Defeating our own encryption does not
protect us. It creates holes that open us up. If one
foreign entity gets hold of that flaw, all of our systems
are at risk. Phone systems which use the RSA key,
financial systems which use the RSA key... lets assume
power systems also use it. I have not worked for the
power systems but have to assume they use the RSA vpn
key...

Unfortunately, the country is full of stupid people these
days who are not just stupid, but lazy as well. They
don't want to take the time and/or the energy to
understand (even at a superficial level), the risks of
things like this. History is lost on them. That
backdoors have typically been exploited. That codes have
been cracked. But - tell them that what the government
wants to do is for their protection, and they roll over
and sign on to the program. It's easier that way. They
can feel good about it. Snowden means nothing to them.
They don't realize that he was one government employee who
became disgruntled and exposed secrets of the highest
order. Fortunately - he is a good guy of sorts. Imagine
if he had malicious intents.

Imagine what might happen if all of our systems were
hacked, including the bios of all systems. I believe this
happened in Saudi Arabia or UAE, can't remember, all of
there systems had to be thrown out, as they could not trust
the bios.

Imagine the chaos here if every system were at risk.



In the interest of protecting us


There is speculation that is exactly what happened with the
Trusted Platform Module (TPM).

What the government has done has eroded the trust that is
necessary for for both businesses and individuals to feel
secure. This is already being seen in contracts that now
require data to be stored off-shore and will cost American
companies billions of dollars. Telco's are feeling the heat as
well as developers of closed source software. Closing all of
the backdoors and coming clean is the only way to restore that
trust, neither of which is likely to happen.

The biggest problem as you have said is the uninformed,
apathetic citizen. They accept this spying by both
corporations and government as part of everyday life. Many
grew up in an age where they had never had any privacy because
of the Internet.

I asked a co-worker about their iPhone (Android is just as
bad) the other day. If I were to follow her around all day
long, make note of her travels, log all of her calls, log her
purchases, intercept her email and texts, would it be OK? I
suspect I would be arrested for stalking but it's fine if
Google or Apple or your phone provider does this.

Society needs to revolt against this wholesale collection of
data and the perpetrators in government should be arrested,
jailed and convicted. The longer it goes on the harder it will
be to fix the problem if we're not already past the point of
no return.

Good reading on this subject can be found at:
http://www.schneier.com

Larry



It's worse sending data offshore.
India is awful, they have no regard for laws theirs or ours.
I watch many Indian's I work with think nothing of assigning a password
that would be considered a joke.. Also they have a habit of sharing
their own accounts, which totally astounded me.

China, don't trust it.

I trust these countries, the Swiss, Germany and (Austria), and France (I
know but they are a little more concerned than we are).



--
Jeff

On 12/29/2013 09:46 AM, woodchucker wrote:
These clowns have revisionist views of what they do.
The General feels that modifying the encryption, and getting the encryption values are fully legal because they go after foreign entitities, but the reality is it went after our own people.

These are traitors to the American people, and they cloak it in protection. Defeating our own encryption does not protect us. It creates holes that open us up. If one foreign entity gets hold of that flaw, all of our systems are at risk. Phone systems which use the RSA key, financial systems which use the RSA key... lets assume power systems also use it. I have not worked for the power systems but have to assume they use the RSA vpn key...





A part of me agrees with you fully. However, it's hard to get too excited
about this when our nation of halfwits is busy giving away its liberty
to politicians who promise them "free" stuff (like healthcare). Similarly,
the aforementioned are busy giving away their privacy as they vomit forth
every personal detail of their lives on Facebook and Twitter.

The NSA isn't really the threat. The people are their own worst enemy as
they march willingly into servitude. Bear in mind that almost every
despot of history in the past few hundred years had the wholehearted
support of a good deal of the public...
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

Tim Daneliuk wrote:

A part of me agrees with you fully. However, it's hard to get too
excited about this when our nation of halfwits is busy giving away
its liberty to politicians who promise them "free" stuff (like
healthcare). Similarly, the aforementioned are busy giving away their
privacy as
they vomit forth every personal detail of their lives on Facebook and
Twitter.

Preach it brother! A nation of stupid people who live in a world of
make-me-feel-good. No sense ofr concience, no sense of reality.

The NSA isn't really the threat. The people are their own worst
enemy as they march willingly into servitude. Bear in mind that
almost every despot of history in the past few hundred years had the
wholehearted support of a good deal of the public...

Oh come on - that can't really be true, can it? That would be too hard for
the feel good crowd to accept.

--

-Mike-

On 12/29/2013 05:08 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
No sense ofr concience, no sense of reality.


Most importantly, no sense of personal accountability.
People have outsourced their moral responsibility and
their obligation to each other to government and thus no
longer feel any personal moral accountability. This does not
end well:

http://culturewrench.com/?p=10

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/