Bill wrote:

I'm talking about getting a flat face on a 5-foot length of lumber,
not an edge. If you don't like the question, please ignore it.
--------------------------------------------
If you get the face flat over 60%-70% of the surface, that is probably
good enough for the planer at least 90% of the time.

SFWIW, after I learned the proper technique to use a jointer,
it became a "go to" tool more often.

There is something about a 12" jointer.G

Lew

"Bill" wrote in message

dadiOH wrote:
BTW, the lack of a joiner is NP. A saw with a decent
blade can do an adequate job on the edges. If not, a
router table will (I often use mine to join edges
rather than using my joiner). So will a hand plane with
- or even without - a shooting board.

What about the "first face" on 5-foot lengths of lumber
that needs work? I suspect I could plane a reasonably
flat surface on glued-up boards. The results might depend
a little on the kitchen lighting.. You almost talked me
out of thinking I needed a jointer, so I'm definitely
still listening.

Various ways, depends on what tools you have. I have done the following...

1. Take to a millwork shop and pay them

2. By hand with a 7" disc sander and coarse paper; just keep eyeballing it
and use a straight edge frequently.

3. With a 9" soft pad, medium paper, on a radial saw (pad down, shove wood
under)

4. Depending on width, on a router table. Sometimes with the router
vertical, other times horizontal. That works OK up to about 3" (my longest
bit).

Now, I just use my drum sander Handiest machine I own. But I often
don't use it until AFTER I glue up a wider panel; not for thickness at
least, I always use it enough so I can see the grain/color of the wood which
often isn't enough to get it truly flat.

One can also make sort of double shooting boards, clamp the work between and
use a router. A router won't leave a very good surface as the bit is
cutting cross grain; a belt sander might work better.

Some (not me, maybe could if I tried) can do it with a plane. I once picked
up a teak board in Chicago to use to make a new dash for my car. It was too
thick, needed it skinnied down. I was living in Mexico so took it around
the corner to a carpenter's shop, figured he'd have a planer or joiner. He
did have a joiner but he didn't use it, used a hand plane and in 20 minutes
he'd reduced it from 3/4 to 1/2. I asked how much I owed, he said to give
him a six pack of Coca Cola sometime.

Regarding the joiner, I don't recall ever using it to get a face; mostly, to
clean up edges especially after ripping on my band saw. And lots of times I
use the router table for that.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

dadiOH wrote:
Now, I just use my drum sander Handiest machine I own. But I often
don't use it until AFTER I glue up a wider panel; not for thickness at
least, I always use it enough so I can see the grain/color of the wood
which often isn't enough to get it truly flat.

I noticed that Swingman appears to use a scraper for that. But he
probably joints the wood first (or equivalently, buys it freshly
jointed). I suspect that if one is going to build "inset" cabinet doors
(like I was "dared" to try : )), then his or her stock better be
"well-dimensioned". I have no argument that a drum sander would be
handy. That is a clever use for it you found for it--of using it to
help see the wood grain.

"Bill" wrote in message

dadiOH wrote:
Now, I just use my drum sander Handiest machine I
own. But I often don't use it until AFTER I glue up a
wider panel; not for thickness at least, I always use
it enough so I can see the grain/color of the wood
which often isn't enough to get it truly flat.

I noticed that Swingman appears to use a scraper for
that.

I think you are talking about his explanation of gluing up a wide table top
in stages, using a scraper to even up after the last, narrow board. I've
done the same thing.

My drum sander does 16" wide, 32" if I rotate the board (letting 16" hang
out). I was making a 48" round table, glued up and surfaced three 16x48+
panels, then glued the three together. Regardless of how careful one is
(this "one" at least) there is going to be a slight offset; a scraper gets
rid of it.
______________

But he probably joints the wood first (or
equivalently, buys it freshly jointed).

The former, I would guess

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 11/13/2013 9:16 AM, Bill wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
Now, I just use my drum sander Handiest machine I own. But I often
don't use it until AFTER I glue up a wider panel; not for thickness at
least, I always use it enough so I can see the grain/color of the wood
which often isn't enough to get it truly flat.

I noticed that Swingman appears to use a scraper for that. But he
probably joints the wood first (or equivalently, buys it freshly
jointed). I suspect that if one is going to build "inset" cabinet doors
(like I was "dared" to try : )), then his or her stock better be
"well-dimensioned". I have no argument that a drum sander would be
handy. That is a clever use for it you found for it--of using it to
help see the wood grain.

I joint the edges of all panel boards, and run each through the planer
to the desired finished thickness, thereby insuring the two faces are
parallel, and all boards are of equal thickness.

Not only do I joint the edges, but I joint them in a very specific
pattern/order:

I alternate the faces of adjacent boards against the jointer fence. IOW,
the top face of one board in a joint goes against the fence on the first
pass, and bottom face of the adjacent board goes against the fence on
the next pass.

Doing this takes advantage of principle of complementary angles,and
negates any mechanical error in the jointer fence being perpendicular to
the jointer table, and insures that the joint between adjacent edges is
precisely 90 degrees.

Taking the time to do this, along with proper clamping techniques, goes
a long way toward having a perfectly _flat_ panel, with no gaps at the
glue joints.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote:

I joint the edges of all panel boards, and run each through the
planer to the desired finished thickness, thereby insuring the two
faces are parallel, and all boards are of equal thickness.

Not only do I joint the edges, but I joint them in a very specific
pattern/order:

I alternate the faces of adjacent boards against the jointer fence.
IOW, the top face of one board in a joint goes against the fence on
the first pass, and bottom face of the adjacent board goes against
the fence on the next pass.

Doing this takes advantage of principle of complementary angles,and
negates any mechanical error in the jointer fence being
perpendicular to the jointer table, and insures that the joint
between adjacent edges is precisely 90 degrees.

Taking the time to do this, along with proper clamping techniques,
goes a long way toward having a perfectly _flat_ panel, with no gaps
at the glue joints.
---------------------------------------------------
The above technique is almost mandatory if you are using a T/S rather
than a jointer.

Eliminates a lot of problems.

I still run the assembled panel thru the drum sander when able.

A 48" drum sander simplifies the hell out of woodworking life.

To bad my guy went up and died.

Have to find a new source.


Lew

Swingman wrote:
On 11/13/2013 9:16 AM, Bill wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
Now, I just use my drum sander Handiest machine I own. But I often
don't use it until AFTER I glue up a wider panel; not for thickness at
least, I always use it enough so I can see the grain/color of the wood
which often isn't enough to get it truly flat.

I noticed that Swingman appears to use a scraper for that. But he
probably joints the wood first (or equivalently, buys it freshly
jointed). I suspect that if one is going to build "inset" cabinet doors
(like I was "dared" to try : )), then his or her stock better be
"well-dimensioned". I have no argument that a drum sander would be
handy. That is a clever use for it you found for it--of using it to
help see the wood grain.

I joint the edges of all panel boards, and run each through the planer
to the desired finished thickness, thereby insuring the two faces are
parallel, and all boards are of equal thickness.

Not only do I joint the edges, but I joint them in a very specific
pattern/order:

I alternate the faces of adjacent boards against the jointer fence.
IOW, the top face of one board in a joint goes against the fence on
the first pass, and bottom face of the adjacent board goes against the
fence on the next pass.

Doing this takes advantage of principle of complementary angles,and
negates any mechanical error in the jointer fence being perpendicular
to the jointer table, and insures that the joint between adjacent
edges is precisely 90 degrees.

Taking the time to do this, along with proper clamping techniques,
goes a long way toward having a perfectly _flat_ panel, with no gaps
at the glue joints.

Thank you very much for sharing your technique!

On 11/13/2013 6:24 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
A 48" drum sander simplifies the hell out of woodworking life.

To bad my guy went up and died.

With my luck I would up and die the minute I had a shop big enough to
put one in.


--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/13/2013 6:45 PM, Bill wrote:


Thank you very much for sharing your technique!

Por nada .. that's what we're all here for.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
google.com/+KarlCaillouet
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Lew Hodgett wrote:
A 48" drum sander simplifies the hell out of woodworking life.

To bad my guy went up and died.

-------------------------------------------------
"Swingman" wrote:

With my luck I would up and die the minute I had a shop big enough
to put one in.
-------------------------------------------
Sounds about right.

The one I used had three (3), 25 HP motors each driving a different
sanding
drum as well as a 20 HP for the dust collector.

The thing req'd a bigger foot print than a two (2) car garage.

He charged $25 to turn it on, then $1/min after the first 15 minutes.


Lew

On Wed, 13 Nov 2013 10:16:27 -0500, Bill
wrote:

dadiOH wrote:
Now, I just use my drum sander Handiest machine I own. But I often
don't use it until AFTER I glue up a wider panel; not for thickness at
least, I always use it enough so I can see the grain/color of the wood
which often isn't enough to get it truly flat.

I noticed that Swingman appears to use a scraper for that. But he
probably joints the wood first (or equivalently, buys it freshly
jointed). I suspect that if one is going to build "inset" cabinet doors
(like I was "dared" to try : )), then his or her stock better be
"well-dimensioned". I have no argument that a drum sander would be
handy. That is a clever use for it you found for it--of using it to
help see the wood grain.

There are jig designs out there to suface plane a board face with a
router. Generally you would only use it for wide surfaces do to the
time it would take. If your going to buy unmilled lumber you'll want
a jointer & used 6" ones aren't that expensive. I've been looking at
8" jointers just because my 6" jointer won't always do a wide enough
board, but I can rip them and glue them back together until I can
afford it.

Mike M

On 11/14/2013 12:37 AM, Mike M wrote:

There are jig designs out there to suface plane a board face with a
router. Generally you would only use it for wide surfaces do to the
time it would take. If your going to buy unmilled lumber you'll want
a jointer & used 6" ones aren't that expensive. I've been looking at
8" jointers just because my 6" jointer won't always do a wide enough
board, but I can rip them and glue them back together until I can
afford it.

Mike M


You may wish to look at Grizzly G0490--$925 plus $150 delivery. An extra
$300+ if you want the "luxury" of carbide cutters. This 8" jointer runs
on 240v of course. I did my own homework on the cutters, so there is no
need to debate the virtues of carbide cutters on my account. My first
name may be "Bill", but my last name isn't "Gates"--mimicking the lyrics
to a gen-u-ine recorded song from quite a while back. I don't recall
who recorded the song and whether it named "Henry Ford" or "Andrew
Carnegie", or someone else. The current price and model number of the
jointer I remembered! : )

Bill