This is a (very) preliminary design fro a "bridge" to join two bookcase units I built. The bottom of this unit will be seen; the top and sides will not. It would be approximately 48" x 23" x 12" deep.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...57632376881493

The bottom drawing shows the face frame as it would be seen; the top drawing is the plywood cabinet that would go behind it. I'm wondering if ...

1. The dado layout shown is sensible.
2. The dado layout shown will prove too complex for me to glue up properly in the allotted time.

Regarding (2.), I have made another diagram the shows the order I think I would need to glue up the pieces in:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7632376881493/

First the 4 Red pieces
Then the Orange piece
Then the two Yellow pieces
Then the two Green pieces
Lastly, the Blue piece.

[aside: Did anyone else learn the resistor color code? And yes, I know I left out Black and Brown. And yes, I have heard all of the various off-color mnemonics for it. And no, I won't be reproducing them here]

Maybe the blue piece should go on earlier? I think maybe it should, but I'm too lazy to redo the screenshot. The clamping would be a little tricky too, especially with my modest inventory. Does anyone ever clamp a box like this with it standing vertically? I'm guessing not; too easy to have it end up twisted.

As always, advice would be appreciated.

Greg Guarino wrote:
This is a (very) preliminary design fro a "bridge" to join two bookcase
units I built. The bottom of this unit will be seen; the top and sides
will not. It would be approximately 48" x 23" x 12" deep.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...57632376881493

The bottom drawing shows the face frame as it would be seen; the top
drawing is the plywood cabinet that would go behind it. I'm wondering if ...

1. The dado layout shown is sensible.
2. The dado layout shown will prove too complex for me to glue up
properly in the allotted time.


Ok, here are the changes that I would make. Eliminate the bottom piece of
plywood that goes all the way across. Going up to the three bottoms of each
section, make that a single piece that goes all the way across to form the
actual bottom and let it set in dados in the outer side panels like the top
panel does. Basically make the top and bottom panel exactly the same and
do not have the bottom panel on the very bottom. It will be much simpler
to cut and dado if the top and bottom panels are identical.

Optional,

Additionally, I would cut dados and groves in the back of the face frame to
accept all of the front edges of the plywood panels that it will be
covering. And I always like to have a back face frame attached the same
way too.

IMHO it is fine for the bottom to not appear all closed in.






Regarding (2.), I have made another diagram the shows the order I think I
would need to glue up the pieces in:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7632376881493/

First the 4 Red pieces
Then the Orange piece
Then the two Yellow pieces
Then the two Green pieces
Lastly, the Blue piece.

[aside: Did anyone else learn the resistor color code? And yes, I know I
left out Black and Brown. And yes, I have heard all of the various
off-color mnemonics for it. And no, I won't be reproducing them here]

Maybe the blue piece should go on earlier? I think maybe it should, but
I'm too lazy to redo the screenshot. The clamping would be a little
tricky too, especially with my modest inventory. Does anyone ever clamp a
box like this with it standing vertically? I'm guessing not; too easy to
have it end up twisted.

As always, advice would be appreciated.

If you go with my suggestion glue up would be a one step process for the
entire carcass. It would be all dado joints so every thing would stay in
place, starting with the center "H" section an finally adding the top,
bottom, and sides.


Another hint, use Titebond II Extend glue for thus glue up. It gives you
more working time and as always you should do a dry fit first.

I could provide a non scale drawing of how I actually do these type
cabinets if you would like.

As always, advice would be appreciated.

I am not sure why you have the two pieces so close along the bottom. I do see a small problem with dados in perfect alignment on both sides of the same piece at the center. I guess 1/4" dados in 3/4" ply is OK but seems would be good to avoid if possible.

I would assemble red. Then lay blue on table and assemble red into blue. Then roll over so it is on table as if looking down as pictures are drawn, then assemble and clamp the rest.

On 7/1/2013 3:00 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I am not sure why you have the two pieces so close along the bottom.

The other bookshelves sit on a set of cubbyhole units, and have 1x3
maple as the bottom of the face frame. I intend to carry this same
"design" over for the "bridge", but the bottom of the bridge will be
above eye height and will thus be seen. So the bottom piece of ply is to
make the bottom of the unit flush with the face frame. The pieces above
that will hold books and bric-a-brac flush with the top of the face
frame 1x3.

Leon has suggested that this is not necessary, that the face frame can
hang down below the actual bottom shelf. So far I don't think I like the
(imagined) look of that. But at this point I may redesign the whole
thing a few times before I build it anyway.

That's one benefit of having no spare time; you get to devote a lot of
thinking to the project before there's an opportunity to build it.

So the bottom piece of ply is to

make the bottom of the unit flush with the face frame. The pieces above

that will hold books and bric-a-brac flush with the top of the face

frame 1x3.

OK, knowing this then I would delete the second horizontal piece from your dado'd internal structure design. Then after you have that built and the FF applied you can just drop in some additional pieces, sort of like an adjustable shelves, in the space where that second piece would have been. Either put little legs on these pieces to hold them at the right height or lay in some spacers underneath.

On 7/1/2013 3:04 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 7/1/2013 3:00 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I am not sure why you have the two pieces so close along the bottom.

The other bookshelves sit on a set of cubbyhole units, and have 1x3
maple as the bottom of the face frame. I intend to carry this same
"design" over for the "bridge", but the bottom of the bridge will be
above eye height and will thus be seen. So the bottom piece of ply is to
make the bottom of the unit flush with the face frame. The pieces above
that will hold books and bric-a-brac flush with the top of the face
frame 1x3.

Leon has suggested that this is not necessary, that the face frame can
hang down below the actual bottom shelf. So far I don't think I like the
(imagined) look of that. But at this point I may redesign the whole
thing a few times before I build it anyway.

That's one benefit of having no spare time; you get to devote a lot of
thinking to the project before there's an opportunity to build it.

Now if you would learn to use Sketchup you would not have to imagine how
anything would look. You could see exactly, at any angle, how it would look.

On 7/1/2013 8:38 PM, Leon wrote:
On 7/1/2013 3:04 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 7/1/2013 3:00 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I am not sure why you have the two pieces so close along the bottom.

The other bookshelves sit on a set of cubbyhole units, and have 1x3
maple as the bottom of the face frame. I intend to carry this same
"design" over for the "bridge", but the bottom of the bridge will be
above eye height and will thus be seen. So the bottom piece of ply is to
make the bottom of the unit flush with the face frame. The pieces above
that will hold books and bric-a-brac flush with the top of the face
frame 1x3.

Leon has suggested that this is not necessary, that the face frame can
hang down below the actual bottom shelf. So far I don't think I like the
(imagined) look of that. But at this point I may redesign the whole
thing a few times before I build it anyway.

That's one benefit of having no spare time; you get to devote a lot of
thinking to the project before there's an opportunity to build it.

Now if you would learn to use Sketchup you would not have to imagine how
anything would look. You could see exactly, at any angle, how it would
look.

With my (so far) simple designs, I think my ability to visualize is
pretty decent. Having said that, I have done some Sketchup drawings of
various things, and this design would be within my Sketchup skills. But
after having built the main bookcases in the same style, I felt that 2D
CAD would be more straightforward for sussing out the dadoes.

Maybe there's an easier way I haven't discovered yet, but the 3D nature
of Sketchup forces it to "guess" which plane I want to move a component
in, and it guesses wrong all too often.

Just last night I was trying to do a sketch of a simple open shelf with
wooden (kind-of trapezoidal) uprights at each end. I drew one end piece,
with the dado that would accept the shelf. Then I copied it, scaled it
to "-1" to make a mirror image piece (there's probably a more sensible
way) and attempted to fit the piece onto the other end of the shelf.
That must have required four or five rotations of view, zooms and
aborted attempts before I could get the component in the vicinity of the
right location. Sketchup seems to take a perverse pleasure in moving the
piece further and further from where I want it to go.

When 2D will do, I tend to use it.

Just last night I was trying to do a sketch of a simple open shelf with

wooden (kind-of trapezoidal) uprights at each end. I drew one end piece,

with the dado that would accept the shelf. Then I copied it, scaled it

to "-1" to make a mirror image piece (there's probably a more sensible

way) and attempted to fit the piece onto the other end of the shelf.

That must have required four or five rotations of view, zooms and

aborted attempts before I could get the component in the vicinity of the

right location. Sketchup seems to take a perverse pleasure in moving the

piece further and further from where I want it to go.



When 2D will do, I tend to use it.

Moving in 3D on a 2D screen has always been a difficult thing to emulate in any 3D CAD system (Ia m in the business and I know).

For Sketchup, I have found that to move you have to pick an exact point on the object you want to move and move it to another exact point on another object. You do this by picking on a corner and then again a corner. After you move it you can do a controlled rotation or two and maybe a slide move along an edge, etc. Trying to move freehand in 3D space is just too arbitrary on any system.

We are actually right now doing some study for using a paint brush type tool, like in photoshop where the cursor is a circle of a given size. We are scaling the size of the circle in realtime if are able to track the 3D object you are painting and add distance perspective. Difficult but pretty cool and necessary for the operation we are trying to support.

On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:11:39 PM UTC-4, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


Moving in 3D on a 2D screen has always been a difficult thing to emulate in any 3D CAD system (Ia m in the business and I know).


For Sketchup, I have found that to move you have to pick an exact point on the object you want to move and move it to another exact point on another object. You do this by picking on a corner and then again a corner.

Sure, and that's exactly what I do. In this case I chose one of the inner corners of the dado and the point at the mating edge of the shelf. And that works perfectly when the mating parts are already pretty close together. The program "gets" what I'm trying to do without much rigamarole.

But when I have to move a piece, say, to the other end of a 5' shelf, the problems start. There are only two dimensions on the screen, but the object can move left and right, up and down and fore and aft. All too frequently, I want it to move right, and it moves aft instead, to pick an arbitrary example. So I reposition the "view" and try again. I frequently need to do this several times, hoping to get the part a little closer to where it's supposed to go with each step.

On 7/2/2013 6:38 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:11:39 PM UTC-4, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


Moving in 3D on a 2D screen has always been a difficult thing to emulate in any 3D CAD system (Ia m in the business and I know).


For Sketchup, I have found that to move you have to pick an exact point on the object you want to move and move it to another exact point on another object. You do this by picking on a corner and then again a corner.

Sure, and that's exactly what I do. In this case I chose one of the inner corners of the dado and the point at the mating edge of the shelf. And that works perfectly when the mating parts are already pretty close together. The program "gets" what I'm trying to do without much rigamarole.

But when I have to move a piece, say, to the other end of a 5' shelf, the problems start. There are only two dimensions on the screen, but the object can move left and right, up and down and fore and aft. All too frequently, I want it to move right, and it moves aft instead, to pick an arbitrary example. So I reposition the "view" and try again. I frequently need to do this several times, hoping to get the part a little closer to where it's supposed to go with each step.


You can specify the direction of a movement in different ways.

1) You can use the arrow keys. The right arrow key will lock the movement
onto the red axis, The left arrow key will lock the movement onto the green
axis. The up or down arrow keys will lock the movement onto the blue axis.

2) If you get a movement started in the direction that you want, you can
hold down the shift key. This will lock the movement direction to be along
the current path.

3) If you hover the cursor over an edge until you get the 'on edge' message
then you can then 'lock' the movement direction to be along that edge by
using the shift key. This also works for faces.

'Locking' a movement direction can be really useful when the amount of the
movement needs to be specified by a surface or point which is not along the
desired movement path.

Besides locking a movement direction, you can also place guide points or
guide lines for your destination. You can also use the 'Measurement'
window to specify the amount of movement.

The are probably other ways to specify a movement.


Dan


PS. Many of the different 'locking' or 'inference' rules also work for other
actions like drawing or rotation.

Greg Guarino wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:11:39 PM UTC-4, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


Moving in 3D on a 2D screen has always been a difficult thing to emulate
in any 3D CAD system (Ia m in the business and I know).


For Sketchup, I have found that to move you have to pick an exact point
on the object you want to move and move it to another exact point on
another object. You do this by picking on a corner and then again a corner.

Sure, and that's exactly what I do. In this case I chose one of the inner
corners of the dado and the point at the mating edge of the shelf. And
that works perfectly when the mating parts are already pretty close
together. The program "gets" what I'm trying to do without much rigamarole.

But when I have to move a piece, say, to the other end of a 5' shelf, the
problems start. There are only two dimensions on the screen, but the
object can move left and right, up and down and fore and aft. All too
frequently, I want it to move right, and it moves aft instead, to pick an
arbitrary example. So I reposition the "view" and try again. I frequently
need to do this several times, hoping to get the part a little closer to
where it's supposed to go with each step.

It sounds like you are describing a situation that happens when trying to
remain in a 2D view when working with a 3D program. Naturally the object
may move along three different axis. When moving anything in a 3D program,
especially Sketchup, you need to be viewing in 3D. Learn the program!
You will be glad that you did.

The 2D view is for "viewing" and or adding dimensions or remarks. You do
not want to be drawing or modifying in 2D.

Draw in 3D and then you can revert the view back to 2D if you wish. Once
you learn how to draw properly in Sketchup it really really is a simple
program to use.

Leon wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:11:39 PM UTC-4, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


Moving in 3D on a 2D screen has always been a difficult thing to emulate
in any 3D CAD system (Ia m in the business and I know).


For Sketchup, I have found that to move you have to pick an exact point
on the object you want to move and move it to another exact point on
another object. You do this by picking on a corner and then again a corner.

Sure, and that's exactly what I do. In this case I chose one of the inner
corners of the dado and the point at the mating edge of the shelf. And
that works perfectly when the mating parts are already pretty close
together. The program "gets" what I'm trying to do without much rigamarole.

But when I have to move a piece, say, to the other end of a 5' shelf, the
problems start. There are only two dimensions on the screen, but the
object can move left and right, up and down and fore and aft. All too
frequently, I want it to move right, and it moves aft instead, to pick an
arbitrary example. So I reposition the "view" and try again. I frequently
need to do this several times, hoping to get the part a little closer to
where it's supposed to go with each step.

It sounds like you are describing a situation that happens when trying to
remain in a 2D view when working with a 3D program. Naturally the object
may move along three different axis. When moving anything in a 3D program,
especially Sketchup, you need to be viewing in 3D. Learn the program!
You will be glad that you did.

The 2D view is for "viewing" and or adding dimensions or remarks. You do
not want to be drawing or modifying in 2D.

Draw in 3D and then you can revert the view back to 2D if you wish. Once
you learn how to draw properly in Sketchup it really really is a simple
program to use.




AND as a follow up to what I just mentioned, always immediately make each
piece of your project into a component before attaching/moving it next too
another piece of the project. If you don't, both objects basically become
the same object and that opens a whole new can of worms.

On 7/3/2013 9:03 AM, Leon wrote:
Leon wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:11:39 PM UTC-4, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


Moving in 3D on a 2D screen has always been a difficult thing to emulate
in any 3D CAD system (Ia m in the business and I know).


For Sketchup, I have found that to move you have to pick an exact point
on the object you want to move and move it to another exact point on
another object. You do this by picking on a corner and then again a corner.

Sure, and that's exactly what I do. In this case I chose one of the inner
corners of the dado and the point at the mating edge of the shelf. And
that works perfectly when the mating parts are already pretty close
together. The program "gets" what I'm trying to do without much rigamarole.

But when I have to move a piece, say, to the other end of a 5' shelf, the
problems start. There are only two dimensions on the screen, but the
object can move left and right, up and down and fore and aft. All too
frequently, I want it to move right, and it moves aft instead, to pick an
arbitrary example. So I reposition the "view" and try again. I frequently
need to do this several times, hoping to get the part a little closer to
where it's supposed to go with each step.

It sounds like you are describing a situation that happens when trying to
remain in a 2D view when working with a 3D program. Naturally the object
may move along three different axis. When moving anything in a 3D program,
especially Sketchup, you need to be viewing in 3D. Learn the program!
You will be glad that you did.

The 2D view is for "viewing" and or adding dimensions or remarks. You do
not want to be drawing or modifying in 2D.

Draw in 3D and then you can revert the view back to 2D if you wish. Once
you learn how to draw properly in Sketchup it really really is a simple
program to use.

I was not even aware that there was a 2D view; I mean that the screen
itself, and for that matter the movement of the mouse on my desk, only
have two dimensions. If I move the mouse to the right, Sketchup
"guesses" which axis I want to move the part in, and frequently guesses
wrong. Likewise I have many times drawn a line that seems to be in the
proper orientation only to find that it is somewhere else entirely when
I rotate the view. It's like being in one of those "false perspective"
rooms.

Just this morning, as per a suggestion here, I tried the arrow keys to
restrict the movement to a certain axis. That seems to work. I'm going
to try that when drawing (some) lines too to see if it helps.

I should say that I've been blundering my way through learning the
program. I hate that the "Help" I found consists mostly of videos; it's
simply too consuming of time I don't have to watch through a video (or
several) to find the one tidbit I'm looking for at the moment.

AND as a follow up to what I just mentioned, always immediately make each
piece of your project into a component before attaching/moving it next too
another piece of the project. If you don't, both objects basically become
the same object and that opens a whole new can of worms.

Yup. That much I knew. It can be a pain to select all of the entities
that make up a component when those entities are surrounded by other
components. That's another operation that usually finds me swiveling the
drawing in all directions to find just the right angle of attack.
Perhaps there's a trick for that as well?

On 7/3/2013 8:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 7/3/2013 9:03 AM, Leon wrote:
Leon wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:11:39 PM UTC-4, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


Moving in 3D on a 2D screen has always been a difficult thing to
emulate
in any 3D CAD system (Ia m in the business and I know).


For Sketchup, I have found that to move you have to pick an exact
point
on the object you want to move and move it to another exact point on
another object. You do this by picking on a corner and then again
a corner.

Sure, and that's exactly what I do. In this case I chose one of the
inner
corners of the dado and the point at the mating edge of the shelf. And
that works perfectly when the mating parts are already pretty close
together. The program "gets" what I'm trying to do without much
rigamarole.

But when I have to move a piece, say, to the other end of a 5'
shelf, the
problems start. There are only two dimensions on the screen, but the
object can move left and right, up and down and fore and aft. All too
frequently, I want it to move right, and it moves aft instead, to
pick an
arbitrary example. So I reposition the "view" and try again. I
frequently
need to do this several times, hoping to get the part a little
closer to
where it's supposed to go with each step.

It sounds like you are describing a situation that happens when
trying to
remain in a 2D view when working with a 3D program. Naturally the
object
may move along three different axis. When moving anything in a 3D
program,
especially Sketchup, you need to be viewing in 3D. Learn the program!
You will be glad that you did.

The 2D view is for "viewing" and or adding dimensions or remarks. You do
not want to be drawing or modifying in 2D.

Draw in 3D and then you can revert the view back to 2D if you wish.
Once
you learn how to draw properly in Sketchup it really really is a simple
program to use.

I was not even aware that there was a 2D view; I mean that the screen
itself, and for that matter the movement of the mouse on my desk, only
have two dimensions. If I move the mouse to the right, Sketchup
"guesses" which axis I want to move the part in, and frequently guesses
wrong.

If you are only see 2 dimensions, height and width, you are in 2D
viewing mode.

If the drawings of the "bridge" were done in Sketchup you were in 2D
view. If you only see one side at a time and everything appears square
on the screen you are viewing in 2D

If you go to the the menu bar and select View, Tool Bars, and add the
Views tool bar you will get a tool bat that looks like simple icons that
look a house. The first 3D icon of th house will put you in 3D mode
all of the rest will put you in a 2D viewing mode. those show the top,
and sides views.

When you are viewing in 3D moving along the correct axis is pretty simple.

FWIW if you type "O" for orbit you can click your mouse and you
instantly move and view in 3D mode.




Likewise I have many times drawn a line that seems to be in the
proper orientation only to find that it is somewhere else entirely when
I rotate the view. It's like being in one of those "false perspective"
rooms.

That is because when you draw in 2D mode it is hard to determine if you
are actually in front of or behind the object you are trying to add too
or move to. 3D lets you see what is actually going on. Additionally
when have drawn to or moved to a specific point, like the middle or end
of a line you will get a small snap to object indicating where the
modification is going to end up. When in 2D mode you may be 40 feet
away and not realize it even though you think you are on top of the object.






Just this morning, as per a suggestion here, I tried the arrow keys to
restrict the movement to a certain axis. That seems to work. I'm going
to try that when drawing (some) lines too to see if it helps.

The arrow keys help if you are in the correct location to begin with but
if your 2D drawing is not on the same 3D plane they act like you are
describing.





I should say that I've been blundering my way through learning the
program. I hate that the "Help" I found consists mostly of videos; it's
simply too consuming of time I don't have to watch through a video (or
several) to find the one tidbit I'm looking for at the moment.

I can assure the video's are well worth the time spent. Pay attention
to all of it as it sounds like you are really doing quite a few thing
wrong. FWIW I had the same problems.



AND as a follow up to what I just mentioned, always immediately make
each
piece of your project into a component before attaching/moving it next
too
another piece of the project. If you don't, both objects basically
become
the same object and that opens a whole new can of worms.

Yup. That much I knew. It can be a pain to select all of the entities
that make up a component when those entities are surrounded by other
components. That's another operation that usually finds me swiveling the
drawing in all directions to find just the right angle of attack.
Perhaps there's a trick for that as well?



It could be your mouse that makes this a chore. I use a Logitech thumb
marble track ball, I can orbit all over the place in a drawing, zoom
in, pan, etc with out moving my hand. All done with clicks, and
rotating the ball with my thumb.

And remember selection entities can be done by dragging a selection box
around them. Click and drag from top left and drag to bottom right and
every thing in the box is selected. Click bottom right and drag to top
left and only those entities that are totally contained in the box are
selected. That last selection method helps to not select a component
that you may be adding another part too that is not yet a component.
Still if you select too much you can always press the "Shift" key and
click on the item you want unselected.

On 7/3/2013 9:21 AM, Leon wrote:
On 7/3/2013 8:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 7/3/2013 9:03 AM, Leon wrote:
Leon wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:11:39 PM UTC-4, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


Moving in 3D on a 2D screen has always been a difficult thing to
emulate
in any 3D CAD system (Ia m in the business and I know).


For Sketchup, I have found that to move you have to pick an exact
point
on the object you want to move and move it to another exact
point on
another object. You do this by picking on a corner and then again
a corner.

Sure, and that's exactly what I do. In this case I chose one of the
inner
corners of the dado and the point at the mating edge of the shelf. And
that works perfectly when the mating parts are already pretty close
together. The program "gets" what I'm trying to do without much
rigamarole.

But when I have to move a piece, say, to the other end of a 5'
shelf, the
problems start. There are only two dimensions on the screen, but the
object can move left and right, up and down and fore and aft. All too
frequently, I want it to move right, and it moves aft instead, to
pick an
arbitrary example. So I reposition the "view" and try again. I
frequently
need to do this several times, hoping to get the part a little
closer to
where it's supposed to go with each step.

It sounds like you are describing a situation that happens when
trying to
remain in a 2D view when working with a 3D program. Naturally the
object
may move along three different axis. When moving anything in a 3D
program,
especially Sketchup, you need to be viewing in 3D. Learn the
program!
You will be glad that you did.

The 2D view is for "viewing" and or adding dimensions or remarks.
You do
not want to be drawing or modifying in 2D.

Draw in 3D and then you can revert the view back to 2D if you wish.
Once
you learn how to draw properly in Sketchup it really really is a simple
program to use.

I was not even aware that there was a 2D view; I mean that the screen
itself, and for that matter the movement of the mouse on my desk, only
have two dimensions. If I move the mouse to the right, Sketchup
"guesses" which axis I want to move the part in, and frequently guesses
wrong.

If you are only see 2 dimensions, height and width, you are in 2D
viewing mode.

If the drawings of the "bridge" were done in Sketchup you were in 2D
view. If you only see one side at a time and everything appears square
on the screen you are viewing in 2D

If you go to the the menu bar and select View, Tool Bars, and add the
Views tool bar you will get a tool bat that looks like simple icons that
look a house. The first 3D icon of th house will put you in 3D mode
all of the rest will put you in a 2D viewing mode. those show the top,
and sides views.

When you are viewing in 3D moving along the correct axis is pretty simple.

FWIW if you type "O" for orbit you can click your mouse and you
instantly move and view in 3D mode.




Likewise I have many times drawn a line that seems to be in the
proper orientation only to find that it is somewhere else entirely when
I rotate the view. It's like being in one of those "false perspective"
rooms.

That is because when you draw in 2D mode it is hard to determine if you
are actually in front of or behind the object you are trying to add too
or move to. 3D lets you see what is actually going on. Additionally
when have drawn to or moved to a specific point, like the middle or end
of a line you will get a small snap to object indicating where the
modification is going to end up. When in 2D mode you may be 40 feet
away and not realize it even though you think you are on top of the object.






Just this morning, as per a suggestion here, I tried the arrow keys to
restrict the movement to a certain axis. That seems to work. I'm going
to try that when drawing (some) lines too to see if it helps.

The arrow keys help if you are in the correct location to begin with but
if your 2D drawing is not on the same 3D plane they act like you are
describing.





I should say that I've been blundering my way through learning the
program. I hate that the "Help" I found consists mostly of videos; it's
simply too consuming of time I don't have to watch through a video (or
several) to find the one tidbit I'm looking for at the moment.

I can assure the video's are well worth the time spent. Pay attention
to all of it as it sounds like you are really doing quite a few thing
wrong. FWIW I had the same problems.



AND as a follow up to what I just mentioned, always immediately make
each
piece of your project into a component before attaching/moving it next
too
another piece of the project. If you don't, both objects basically
become
the same object and that opens a whole new can of worms.

Yup. That much I knew. It can be a pain to select all of the entities
that make up a component when those entities are surrounded by other
components. That's another operation that usually finds me swiveling the
drawing in all directions to find just the right angle of attack.
Perhaps there's a trick for that as well?



It could be your mouse that makes this a chore. I use a Logitech thumb
marble track ball, I can orbit all over the place in a drawing, zoom
in, pan, etc with out moving my hand. All done with clicks, and
rotating the ball with my thumb.

And remember selection entities can be done by dragging a selection box
around them. Click and drag from top left and drag to bottom right and
every thing in the box is selected. Click bottom right and drag to top
left and only those entities that are totally contained in the box are
selected. That last selection method helps to not select a component
that you may be adding another part too that is not yet a component.
Still if you select too much you can always press the "Shift" key and
click on the item you want unselected.





and another thing!!!!! LOL For drawing in 3D you are aware to use the
push/pull command, right. It is the absolute best and fastest way to
make a 2D object into a 3D object. In fact it tales longer to draw one
side of a cube or box than it does to add the other 5 sides, unless you
use the rectangle tool to make the first side.

On 7/3/2013 10:21 AM, Leon wrote:
On 7/3/2013 8:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 7/3/2013 9:03 AM, Leon wrote:
Leon wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:11:39 PM UTC-4, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


Moving in 3D on a 2D screen has always been a difficult thing to
emulate
in any 3D CAD system (Ia m in the business and I know).


For Sketchup, I have found that to move you have to pick an exact
point
on the object you want to move and move it to another exact
point on
another object. You do this by picking on a corner and then again
a corner.

Sure, and that's exactly what I do. In this case I chose one of the
inner
corners of the dado and the point at the mating edge of the shelf. And
that works perfectly when the mating parts are already pretty close
together. The program "gets" what I'm trying to do without much
rigamarole.

But when I have to move a piece, say, to the other end of a 5'
shelf, the
problems start. There are only two dimensions on the screen, but the
object can move left and right, up and down and fore and aft. All too
frequently, I want it to move right, and it moves aft instead, to
pick an
arbitrary example. So I reposition the "view" and try again. I
frequently
need to do this several times, hoping to get the part a little
closer to
where it's supposed to go with each step.

It sounds like you are describing a situation that happens when
trying to
remain in a 2D view when working with a 3D program. Naturally the
object
may move along three different axis. When moving anything in a 3D
program,
especially Sketchup, you need to be viewing in 3D. Learn the
program!
You will be glad that you did.

The 2D view is for "viewing" and or adding dimensions or remarks.
You do
not want to be drawing or modifying in 2D.

Draw in 3D and then you can revert the view back to 2D if you wish.
Once
you learn how to draw properly in Sketchup it really really is a simple
program to use.

I was not even aware that there was a 2D view; I mean that the screen
itself, and for that matter the movement of the mouse on my desk, only
have two dimensions. If I move the mouse to the right, Sketchup
"guesses" which axis I want to move the part in, and frequently guesses
wrong.

If you are only see 2 dimensions, height and width, you are in 2D
viewing mode.

I can assure you that I have never used Sketchup in 2D mode, unless one
can rotate the object in any direction and see it from any point of view
and still somehow be in 2D mode.

If the drawings of the "bridge" were done in Sketchup you were in 2D
view. If you only see one side at a time and everything appears square
on the screen you are viewing in 2D

The drawing of the bridge was done with a 2D CAD program.

If you go to the the menu bar and select View, Tool Bars, and add the
Views tool bar you will get a tool bat that looks like simple icons that
look a house. The first 3D icon of th house will put you in 3D mode
all of the rest will put you in a 2D viewing mode. those show the top,
and sides views.

When you are viewing in 3D moving along the correct axis is pretty simple.

It hardly seems so, in my experience. If I'm looking at a side of the
object straight on, then it tends to stick to L/R and Up/Down, but even
a relatively small angle opens up a can of worms. The arrow keys look to
be a very helpful tip.

FWIW if you type "O" for orbit you can click your mouse and you
instantly move and view in 3D mode.




Likewise I have many times drawn a line that seems to be in the
proper orientation only to find that it is somewhere else entirely when
I rotate the view. It's like being in one of those "false perspective"
rooms.

That is because when you draw in 2D mode it is hard to determine if you
are actually in front of or behind the object you are trying to add too
or move to. 3D lets you see what is actually going on. Additionally
when have drawn to or moved to a specific point, like the middle or end
of a line you will get a small snap to object indicating where the
modification is going to end up. When in 2D mode you may be 40 feet
away and not realize it even though you think you are on top of the object.






Just this morning, as per a suggestion here, I tried the arrow keys to
restrict the movement to a certain axis. That seems to work. I'm going
to try that when drawing (some) lines too to see if it helps.

The arrow keys help if you are in the correct location to begin with but
if your 2D drawing is not on the same 3D plane they act like you are
describing.





I should say that I've been blundering my way through learning the
program. I hate that the "Help" I found consists mostly of videos; it's
simply too consuming of time I don't have to watch through a video (or
several) to find the one tidbit I'm looking for at the moment.

I can assure the video's are well worth the time spent. Pay attention
to all of it as it sounds like you are really doing quite a few thing
wrong. FWIW I had the same problems.



AND as a follow up to what I just mentioned, always immediately make
each
piece of your project into a component before attaching/moving it next
too
another piece of the project. If you don't, both objects basically
become
the same object and that opens a whole new can of worms.

Yup. That much I knew. It can be a pain to select all of the entities
that make up a component when those entities are surrounded by other
components. That's another operation that usually finds me swiveling the
drawing in all directions to find just the right angle of attack.
Perhaps there's a trick for that as well?



It could be your mouse that makes this a chore. I use a Logitech thumb
marble track ball, I can orbit all over the place in a drawing, zoom
in, pan, etc with out moving my hand. All done with clicks, and
rotating the ball with my thumb.

And remember selection entities can be done by dragging a selection box
around them.

That's what I do. But it's most convenient to draw objects using
previously drawn objects as reference points. When there get to be a
bunch of them in close proximity, it can be a drag to select only what
you want.

Click and drag from top left and drag to bottom right and
every thing in the box is selected. Click bottom right and drag to top
left and only those entities that are totally contained in the box are
selected. That last selection method helps to not select a component
that you may be adding another part too that is not yet a component.
Still if you select too much you can always press the "Shift" key and
click on the item you want unselected.

On 7/2/2013 11:27 PM, Dan Coby wrote:
On 7/2/2013 6:38 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On Tuesday, July 2, 2013 5:11:39 PM UTC-4, SonomaProducts.com wrote:


Moving in 3D on a 2D screen has always been a difficult thing to
emulate in any 3D CAD system (Ia m in the business and I know).


For Sketchup, I have found that to move you have to pick an exact
point on the object you want to move and move it to another exact
point on another object. You do this by picking on a corner and
then again a corner.

Sure, and that's exactly what I do. In this case I chose one of the
inner corners of the dado and the point at the mating edge of the
shelf. And that works perfectly when the mating parts are already
pretty close together. The program "gets" what I'm trying to do
without much rigamarole.

But when I have to move a piece, say, to the other end of a 5' shelf,
the problems start. There are only two dimensions on the screen, but
the object can move left and right, up and down and fore and aft. All
too frequently, I want it to move right, and it moves aft instead, to
pick an arbitrary example. So I reposition the "view" and try again. I
frequently need to do this several times, hoping to get the part a
little closer to where it's supposed to go with each step.


You can specify the direction of a movement in different ways.

1) You can use the arrow keys. The right arrow key will lock the movement
onto the red axis, The left arrow key will lock the movement onto the green
axis. The up or down arrow keys will lock the movement onto the blue axis.

2) If you get a movement started in the direction that you want, you can
hold down the shift key. This will lock the movement direction to be along
the current path.

3) If you hover the cursor over an edge until you get the 'on edge' message
then you can then 'lock' the movement direction to be along that edge by
using the shift key. This also works for faces.

'Locking' a movement direction can be really useful when the amount of the
movement needs to be specified by a surface or point which is not along the
desired movement path.

Besides locking a movement direction, you can also place guide points or
guide lines for your destination. You can also use the 'Measurement'
window to specify the amount of movement.

The are probably other ways to specify a movement.


Dan


PS. Many of the different 'locking' or 'inference' rules also work for
other
actions like drawing or rotation.

I gave the arrow keys a quick try this morning. That looks like a very
valuable tip. Thanks.

On 7/3/2013 8:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I should say that I've been blundering my way through learning the
program. I hate that the "Help" I found consists mostly of videos; it's
simply too consuming of time I don't have to watch through a video (or
several) to find the one tidbit I'm looking for at the moment.

On 7/3/2013 9:03 AM, Leon wrote:

I can assure the video's are well worth the time spent. Pay attention to all of it as it sounds like you are really doing quite a few thing wrong. FWIW I had the same problems.

I would also like to strongly suggest that you take Leon's advice and
spend some time with the video tutorials. Trying to learn Sketchup by
trial and error can be extremely frustrating. I gave up on the program
after my first efforts without watching the tutorials. I had the same
sort of problems that you have been describing. Much later I made a
second attempt at learning the program. Things became much clearer after
watching the tutorials and then doing some playing around. As Leon
said, the time spent watching the tutorials will be well spent.


Dan