Going to make the drawer boxes for the buffet out of 3/4 inch baltic birch with hard maple false fronts. Is it acceptable to attach the sides to the front and back using floating tenons? The drawers will be about 16" wide by 18" deep. Alternative is to buy one of those drawer box router bit sets. Haven't had much luck in using dovetails on plywood due to chip out.

Larry

On 2/15/2013 2:01 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
Going to make the drawer boxes for the buffet out of 3/4 inch baltic
birch with hard maple false fronts. Is it acceptable to attach the sides
to the front and back using floating tenons? The drawers will be about
16" wide by 18" deep. Alternative is to buy one of those drawer box
router bit sets. Haven't had much luck in using dovetails on plywood due
to chip out.


On a buffet I'd expect a lot of use...

I'd at least _try_ a sliding dovetail. I have to admit I've never used
baltic birch ply for anything--when I was doing cabinet work it was
essentially unheard of yet in the States and since just never had the
need--just use hardwood for drawer sides for everything I've ever built.

Anyway, all as a way to say I don't know how well it would machine but
my understanding is it ought to do ok that direction and you would have
a solid mechanical joint as well against the pulling force...

--

On 2/15/2013 2:01 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
Going to make the drawer boxes for the buffet out of 3/4 inch baltic birch with hard maple false fronts. Is it acceptable to attach the sides to the front and back using floating tenons? The drawers will be about 16" wide by 18" deep. Alternative is to buy one of those drawer box router bit sets. Haven't had much luck in using dovetails on plywood due to chip out.

Larry




I have make a whole bunch of drawers with 1/2 Balic birch, rabbit joints
front and back and reinforced with floating tenons. Tenons inserted
into plunge cuts mortises at the rabbit joint after the drawer is glued up.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...1932/lightbox/


Same here with 3/4" solid maple

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...1932/lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...1932/lightbox/

And on several other projects.

I will say that sanding the drawers can be a PIA.

I first use a 1/8" radius round over bit to round over the tops and
bottoms, insides and out on all 4 sides. I then sand all the interior
sides, then assemble, next day plunge cut the mortises, insert the
tenons, and finally sand the exterior. Rounding over the edges before
assembly saves a lot of time sanding.

On Friday, February 15, 2013 2:01:24 PM UTC-6, Gramp's shop wrote:
Going to make the drawer boxes for the buffet out of 3/4 inch baltic birch with hard maple false fronts. Is it acceptable to attach the sides to the front and back using floating tenons? The drawers will be about 16" wide by 18" deep. Alternative is to buy one of those drawer box router bit sets. Haven't had much luck in using dovetails on plywood due to chip out.



Larry

Leon ...

I recall seeing these pix before, but damned if I could find them again. This will be a good experiment for the JessEm mortiser. Thanks, too, for the sanding tips. Hadn't thought much about that.

Larry

On 2/15/2013 2:57 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
On Friday, February 15, 2013 2:01:24 PM UTC-6, Gramp's shop wrote:
Going to make the drawer boxes for the buffet out of 3/4 inch baltic birch with hard maple false fronts. Is it acceptable to attach the sides to the front and back using floating tenons? The drawers will be about 16" wide by 18" deep. Alternative is to buy one of those drawer box router bit sets. Haven't had much luck in using dovetails on plywood due to chip out.



Larry

Leon ...

I recall seeing these pix before, but damned if I could find them again. This will be a good experiment for the JessEm mortiser. Thanks, too, for the sanding tips. Hadn't thought much about that.

Larry



LOL, The round over before assembly trick is a relatively recent
discovery. It took me hundreds of drawers to come up with a faster and
easier way.

Gramp's shop wrote:
Going to make the drawer boxes for the buffet out of 3/4 inch baltic
birch with hard maple false fronts. Is it acceptable to attach the
sides to the front and back using floating tenons? The drawers will
be about 16" wide by 18" deep. Alternative is to buy one of those
drawer box router bit sets. Haven't had much luck in using dovetails
on plywood due to chip out.

As dpb said, sliding dovetails are nice; strong and easy to make. Ply does
to chip but that isn't an insurmountable problem.

Leon's suggestion is a good one too. I have a 72" x 24" x about 30" storage
table in my shop. It has three tiers of drawers, four drawers in each tier
(top two are shallow, bottom two are deeper). Some of the drawers are quite
heavy, all slide wood on wood. All have the sides into a dado on the front,
sides are pinned with two to four 1/8" dowels. I built it 20 years ago, no
drawer has failed. Not *nearly* as elegant as Leon's mortices though.
IIRC, the backs are just butted to the sides, pinned too.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...

I have make a whole bunch of drawers with 1/2 Balic birch, rabbit joints front and
back and reinforced with floating tenons. Tenons inserted into plunge cuts
mortises at the rabbit joint after the drawer is glued up.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...1932/lightbox/


Very nice design & execution. I filed it away in my idea file.

It does remind me of an old saying that I updated with you in mind.
"When the only tool you have is a Domino all problems look
like a floating tenon." ;~)
Art

On 2/15/2013 3:44 PM, Artemus wrote:
"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...

I have make a whole bunch of drawers with 1/2 Balic birch, rabbit joints front and
back and reinforced with floating tenons. Tenons inserted into plunge cuts
mortises at the rabbit joint after the drawer is glued up.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb1121...1932/lightbox/


Very nice design & execution. I filed it away in my idea file.

Thank you! It has been a big hit. I believe it has influenced the
closing of the deal on my last four big jobs.


It does remind me of an old saying that I updated with you in mind.
"When the only tool you have is a Domino all problems look
like a floating tenon." ;~)
Art


LOL

On 2/15/2013 2:01 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:

Going to make the drawer boxes for the buffet out of 3/4 inch baltic birch with hard maple false fronts. Is it acceptable to attach the sides to the front and back using floating tenons? The drawers will be about 16" wide by 18" deep. Alternative is to buy one of those drawer box router bit sets. Haven't had much luck in using dovetails on plywood due to chip out.

Just something else to consider is a locking rabbet joint drawer using a
table saw to make the joints instead of a router bit set. (you will need
a miter gauge and sacrificial fence)

I like them because you can make a fairly nice, and relatively strong,
and inexpensive plywood drawer quickly and still not be ashamed, leaving
a possible better drawer to a future time and circumstances:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...71459780698114

Here's how I do a locking rabbet joint on the table saw:

http://youtu.be/1w7iQFW4hq8

(you can easily dimension that for 3/4" sides and fronts)

And, for the Sketchup jockeys, here's the actual file:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...&prevs tart=0

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/15/13 8:40 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/15/2013 2:01 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:

Going to make the drawer boxes for the buffet out of 3/4 inch baltic
birch with hard maple false fronts. Is it acceptable to attach the
sides to the front and back using floating tenons? The drawers will
be about 16" wide by 18" deep. Alternative is to buy one of those
drawer box router bit sets. Haven't had much luck in using dovetails
on plywood due to chip out.

Just something else to consider is a locking rabbet joint drawer using a
table saw to make the joints instead of a router bit set. (you will need
a miter gauge and sacrificial fence)

I like them because you can make a fairly nice, and relatively strong,
and inexpensive plywood drawer quickly and still not be ashamed, leaving
a possible better drawer to a future time and circumstances:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...71459780698114


Here's how I do a locking rabbet joint on the table saw:

http://youtu.be/1w7iQFW4hq8


That what I did on my last set of drawers!
I was done before I could've had the dovetail jig and router set-up.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/15/2013 8:40 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/15/2013 2:01 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:

Going to make the drawer boxes for the buffet out of 3/4 inch baltic
birch with hard maple false fronts. Is it acceptable to attach the
sides to the front and back using floating tenons? The drawers will
be about 16" wide by 18" deep. Alternative is to buy one of those
drawer box router bit sets. Haven't had much luck in using dovetails
on plywood due to chip out.

Just something else to consider is a locking rabbet joint drawer using a
table saw to make the joints instead of a router bit set. (you will need
a miter gauge and sacrificial fence)

I like them because you can make a fairly nice, and relatively strong,
and inexpensive plywood drawer quickly and still not be ashamed, leaving
a possible better drawer to a future time and circumstances:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...71459780698114


Here's how I do a locking rabbet joint on the table saw:

http://youtu.be/1w7iQFW4hq8

(you can easily dimension that for 3/4" sides and fronts)

And, for the Sketchup jockeys, here's the actual file:

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehou...&prevs tart=0




I have not tried this but was wondering if it would work. Have you ever
considered cutting the front/back rabbits with the end of the board on
the table, pointing up and down and the resulting tongue being between
the blade and fence? If you set the fence the same distance away from
the blade as the width of the dado cut you may be able to use the same
fence setting for the dado and rabbit cut and no sacrificial fence or
blade height adjustment.

Of course the dado width would have to be exactly half the width of the
stock.

On 2/16/2013 10:42 AM, Leon wrote:
I have not tried this but was wondering if it would work. Have you ever
considered cutting the front/back rabbits with the end of the board on
the table, pointing up and down and the resulting tongue being between
the blade and fence? If you set the fence the same distance away from
the blade as the width of the dado cut you may be able to use the same
fence setting for the dado and rabbit cut and no sacrificial fence or
blade height adjustment.

Of course the dado width would have to be exactly half the width of the
stock.

You mean like when cutting tenons on the TS with a jig?

Would you not need some kind of 'fence riding jig' to keep the vertical
board in position through the drag of the dado stack cut, especially in
a less wide drawer part?

Or, maybe my mental floss didn't work all that well this morning?

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/16/2013 11:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/16/2013 10:42 AM, Leon wrote:
I have not tried this but was wondering if it would work. Have you ever
considered cutting the front/back rabbits with the end of the board on
the table, pointing up and down and the resulting tongue being between
the blade and fence? If you set the fence the same distance away from
the blade as the width of the dado cut you may be able to use the same
fence setting for the dado and rabbit cut and no sacrificial fence or
blade height adjustment.

Of course the dado width would have to be exactly half the width of the
stock.

You mean like when cutting tenons on the TS with a jig?

Yeah kind'a sort't.

Would you not need some kind of 'fence riding jig' to keep the vertical
board in position through the drag of the dado stack cut, especially in
a less wide drawer part?

Well you are only cutting about 1/4" deep so I don't think keeping it
against the fence would be an issue however you could use a 1x6 to go
through first, laying flat, and that could create a recess that could
hold the bottom of the board against the fence before and after the cut
and to push the bottom through.

Narrower drawers would probably be more difficult.

I was going to try it out but my dado stack is .245", baltic birch is
..476. AND my 1/4" dado insert has been used for wider cuts so the piece
would drop down into the saw. Not a good situation.

I left it at that.


I was looking at the beginning of a WOOD you tube video and it mentioned
how to make this joint with out changing the set up. But of course the
video only wets your whistle and then wants $3 to view something that
you probably already know.

Pay attention to the last sentence he says on this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THwogrdeA0M




Or, maybe my mental floss didn't work all that well this morning?

On 2/16/13 12:47 PM, Leon wrote:
On 2/16/2013 11:20 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/16/2013 10:42 AM, Leon wrote:
I have not tried this but was wondering if it would work. Have you ever
considered cutting the front/back rabbits with the end of the board on
the table, pointing up and down and the resulting tongue being between
the blade and fence? If you set the fence the same distance away from
the blade as the width of the dado cut you may be able to use the same
fence setting for the dado and rabbit cut and no sacrificial fence or
blade height adjustment.

Of course the dado width would have to be exactly half the width of the
stock.

You mean like when cutting tenons on the TS with a jig?

Yeah kind'a sort't.

Would you not need some kind of 'fence riding jig' to keep the vertical
board in position through the drag of the dado stack cut, especially in
a less wide drawer part?

Well you are only cutting about 1/4" deep so I don't think keeping it
against the fence would be an issue however you could use a 1x6 to go
through first, laying flat, and that could create a recess that could
hold the bottom of the board against the fence before and after the cut
and to push the bottom through.

Narrower drawers would probably be more difficult.

I was going to try it out but my dado stack is .245", baltic birch is
.476. AND my 1/4" dado insert has been used for wider cuts so the piece
would drop down into the saw. Not a good situation.

I left it at that.


I was looking at the beginning of a WOOD you tube video and it mentioned
how to make this joint with out changing the set up. But of course the
video only wets your whistle and then wants $3 to view something that
you probably already know.

Pay attention to the last sentence he says on this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THwogrdeA0M




Or, maybe my mental floss didn't work all that well this morning?



http://www.woodsmithshop.com/downloa...bet-joints.pdf


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/16/2013 12:53 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

http://www.woodsmithshop.com/downloa...bet-joints.pdf

I've seen that in the past. I can make a lot of drawers using my
preferred method (certainly not _my method_ as its been around for
years) by the time I get around to making and using jigs for a fairly
simple operation.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/16/2013 12:47 PM, Leon wrote:
I was looking at the beginning of a WOOD you tube video and it mentioned
how to make this joint with out changing the set up. But of course the
video only wets your whistle and then wants $3 to view something that
you probably already know.

Pay attention to the last sentence he says on this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THwogrdeA0M


Yep, have seen it ... and remember being ****ed when something on
youtube was put behind a ****ing paywall ... WOOD can kiss my ass for
that particular mindset.

I can think of a number of ways to skin this particular cat, but I've
gotten used to doing it the way I showed on the TS, with a good deal of
success, and with minimum fussing with the fit, or having to use a jig.

My cheese gets moved around too damn much with all this estrogen in the
air, as it is.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/16/2013 1:23 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/16/2013 12:47 PM, Leon wrote:
I was looking at the beginning of a WOOD you tube video and it mentioned
how to make this joint with out changing the set up. But of course the
video only wets your whistle and then wants $3 to view something that
you probably already know.

Pay attention to the last sentence he says on this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THwogrdeA0M


Yep, have seen it ... and remember being ****ed when something on
youtube was put behind a ****ing paywall ... WOOD can kiss my ass for
that particular mindset.

I can think of a number of ways to skin this particular cat, but I've
gotten used to doing it the way I showed on the TS, with a good deal of
success, and with minimum fussing with the fit, or having to use a jig.

My cheese gets moved around too damn much with all this estrogen in the
air, as it is.



I was hoping to discover a set up like I use for my "lap joints" that I
use on my back face frames. They make a clean recess for the back panel
to be attached to. I set the fence and never move it but do adjust the
cutting height however.

On 2/16/13 1:13 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/16/2013 12:53 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

http://www.woodsmithshop.com/downloa...bet-joints.pdf

I've seen that in the past. I can make a lot of drawers using my
preferred method (certainly not _my method_ as its been around for
years) by the time I get around to making and using jigs for a fairly
simple operation.


I just posted that because it looked like what was in the other link,
without having to pay to watch it.

Like I said, I've done it your way... but I've also done it this way,
because I already have the jig I made for cutting tenons and shaker panels.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/15/2013 12:01 PM, Gramp's shop wrote:
Going to make the drawer boxes for the buffet out of 3/4 inch baltic birch with hard maple false fronts. Is it acceptable to attach the sides to the front and back using floating tenons? The drawers will be about 16" wide by 18" deep. Alternative is to buy one of those drawer box router bit sets. Haven't had much luck in using dovetails on plywood due to chip out.

Larry


Look up "lock rabbet joint" for a quick and easy joint for
drawers.

Quick and easy, can be done with a router table
or a table saw.

http://www.woodmagazine.com/woodwork...drawer-joints/

It can also be pinned from the side, although it's not needed.

It also will cut down or eliminate any chipping on plywood.

On 2/15/2013 6:40 PM, Swingman wrote:

Just something else to consider is a locking rabbet joint drawer using a
table saw to make the joints instead of a router bit set. (you will need
a miter gauge and sacrificial fence)


Here's how I do a locking rabbet joint on the table saw:

http://youtu.be/1w7iQFW4hq8


Nice video on "how to do it" Karl...