On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:09:10 -0400, Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:36:45 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:37:58 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:11:10 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:35:44 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 00:00:41 -0400, Bill wrote:

OK, but I don't see the correlation between Rolex and Apple. That you do,
says as much about you than it does those who you talk about.


I'm not sure. I heard about a 7 year-old today who asked his mom to buy
him an iPad. Do you think he saw *bling*?

Maybe but that just makes my point. *YOU* care about what some unknown little
boy wants.

No, I just happen to be in the coffee room when the said story was told.
You'll have to find someone else to argue with though.

Yes. If it didn't bother you (and it clearly does) that a little boy wanted
an iPad, you wouldn't have brought it up here. You really need to pay more
attention to yourself and your family and less to what others want.

I think it is noteworthy comment about our society that a 7-year old
asked his mom for an Ipad. I guess it's a sign that there is a lot of
marketing going on.

Good grief. You never asked your mother for a toy? Get over yourself and
stop worrying about what other people do. Busybody.

TROLL!

Did your mother have any live births?

There are no other kind of births, troll!

Ever hear of a still birth, moron? I'm *sure* your mother has.


I haven't heard yapping at your level since junior high...

It's all you've been doing in this entire thread; yapping about others
possessions.


My turn is over, please go amuse someone else.

You're not just a busybody but a passive-aggressive control freak. You could
have just dropped the conversation, some time back, even, but that wouldn't
have satisfied your need for control.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:09:10 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:36:45 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:37:58 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:11:10 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:35:44 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 00:00:41 -0400, Bill wrote:

OK, but I don't see the correlation between Rolex and Apple. That you do,
says as much about you than it does those who you talk about.


I'm not sure. I heard about a 7 year-old today who asked his mom to buy
him an iPad. Do you think he saw *bling*?

Maybe but that just makes my point. *YOU* care about what some unknown little
boy wants.

No, I just happen to be in the coffee room when the said story was told.
You'll have to find someone else to argue with though.

Yes. If it didn't bother you (and it clearly does) that a little boy wanted
an iPad, you wouldn't have brought it up here. You really need to pay more
attention to yourself and your family and less to what others want.

I think it is noteworthy comment about our society that a 7-year old
asked his mom for an Ipad. I guess it's a sign that there is a lot of
marketing going on.

Good grief. You never asked your mother for a toy? Get over yourself and
stop worrying about what other people do. Busybody.

TROLL!

Did your mother have any live births?

There are no other kind of births, troll!

Ever hear of a still birth, moron? I'm *sure* your mother has.


I haven't heard yapping at your level since junior high...

It's all you've been doing in this entire thread; yapping about others
possessions.


My turn is over, please go amuse someone else.

You're not just a busybody but a passive-aggressive control freak. You could
have just dropped the conversation, some time back, even, but that wouldn't
have satisfied your need for control.

I guess you know me pretty well. Move on.

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:21:38 -0400, "
That's because you're a troll!

Bill, do you really try to be an idiot or does it run in the family.

Actually, he was being polite to you. Fact is you're an asshole
everyday of the week.

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 23:45:19 -0400, Bill wrote:
You're not just a busybody but a passive-aggressive control freak. You could
have just dropped the conversation, some time back, even, but that wouldn't
have satisfied your need for control.

I guess you know me pretty well. Move on.

He is trolling you Bill and you're contributing to the problem because
you keep responding to the asshole.

On 8/30/2012 3:37 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Bill wrote:
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 00:00:41 -0400, Bill wrote:

OK, but I don't see the correlation between Rolex and Apple.
That you
do, says as much about you than it does those who you
talk about.

I'm not sure. I heard about a 7 year-old today who asked his mom
to buy him an iPad. Do you think he saw *bling*?

Maybe but that just makes my point. *YOU* care about what some
unknown little boy wants.

No, I just happen to be in the coffee room when the said story was
told. You'll have to find someone else to argue with though.

Yes. If it didn't bother you (and it clearly does) that a little
boy wanted an iPad, you wouldn't have brought it up here. You
really need to pay more attention to yourself and your family and
less to what others want.

I think it is noteworthy comment about our society that a 7-year old
asked his mom for an Ipad. I guess it's a sign that there is a lot of
marketing going on.

Perhaps, but I think it is more a reflection of what parents are giving
their kids these days. My own thoughts on that were - why in the hell
does
a 7 year old need and iPad? But - that's what parents do for and buy for
their kids these days.


Not to start another whole debate.... well, that *is* what we do, so
here goes.....

Kids, especially very young ones, are doing extremely well with learning
on tablets. The touch interface has opened up whole new realms of early
developmental learning that were never before thought possible.

They have been especially revolutionary in helping autistic kids learn
and *communicate* with others. There are videos out there showing before
and after of kids with autism and it brings tears to your eyes to see
the difference it makes in their lives. Turns out these kids are just as
intelligent as "normal" kids and these tablets have been they only
really effective conduit to learning and communication for them.

I have friends with preschooler who are learning to read and write with
things, much faster than old-school flash cards, etc. Best part... they
seem to take to it themselves with very little supervision. The touch
screen interface seems to be the magic part of the equation in the case
of the autistic kids.

Excellent response, Mike ... and one that shines a bright light on the
profound ignorance being shown in this thread by those who protest their
innocence of being dissembling, while, post after post, continue to spew
thinly veiled snideness about technologies of which they have no
experience or ken.

The iPad is, in particular, an excellent learning device for children,
the effectiveness of which the world has not previously experienced ...
the surface has barely been scratched in the regard.

Watching my 3 year old grandson, who has been using an iPad daily since
he was old enough to hold one, and is reading and comprehending the
written word better than most around here, recently proved that to me
without a shred of doubt.

Those with a literary bent might want to obtain a copy of Neal
Stephenson's "The Diamond Age", written in 1995 and eerily prescient of
the current technology's effect on learning for children.

... there is little doubt that Steve Jobs read this book at some point.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 23:45:19 -0400, Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:09:10 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:36:45 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:37:58 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:11:10 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:35:44 -0400, Bill wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 00:00:41 -0400, Bill wrote:

OK, but I don't see the correlation between Rolex and Apple. That you do,
says as much about you than it does those who you talk about.


I'm not sure. I heard about a 7 year-old today who asked his mom to buy
him an iPad. Do you think he saw *bling*?

Maybe but that just makes my point. *YOU* care about what some unknown little
boy wants.

No, I just happen to be in the coffee room when the said story was told.
You'll have to find someone else to argue with though.

Yes. If it didn't bother you (and it clearly does) that a little boy wanted
an iPad, you wouldn't have brought it up here. You really need to pay more
attention to yourself and your family and less to what others want.

I think it is noteworthy comment about our society that a 7-year old
asked his mom for an Ipad. I guess it's a sign that there is a lot of
marketing going on.

Good grief. You never asked your mother for a toy? Get over yourself and
stop worrying about what other people do. Busybody.

TROLL!

Did your mother have any live births?

There are no other kind of births, troll!

Ever hear of a still birth, moron? I'm *sure* your mother has.


I haven't heard yapping at your level since junior high...

It's all you've been doing in this entire thread; yapping about others
possessions.


My turn is over, please go amuse someone else.

You're not just a busybody but a passive-aggressive control freak. You could
have just dropped the conversation, some time back, even, but that wouldn't
have satisfied your need for control.

I guess you know me pretty well. Move on.

You're easy. If I was wrong, you would have dropped the issue some time back
but then wouldn't have the last word. Go ahead.

Swingman wrote:


Excellent response, Mike ... and one that shines a bright light on the
profound ignorance being shown in this thread by those who protest
their innocence of being dissembling, while, post after post,
continue to spew thinly veiled snideness about technologies of which
they have no experience or ken.

More of Karl's dribble where he tries to postion people in the way that he
wants them to appear. Great woodworker - horrible reader. Thinly veiled is
best applied to Karl's posts.


--

-Mike-

-MIKE- wrote:


Not to start another whole debate.... well, that *is* what we do, so
here goes.....

Kids, especially very young ones, are doing extremely well with
learning on tablets. The touch interface has opened up whole new
realms of early developmental learning that were never before thought
possible.

Agreed. I have seen that watching my own grandchildren.

They have been especially revolutionary in helping autistic kids learn
and *communicate* with others. There are videos out there showing
before and after of kids with autism and it brings tears to your eyes
to see the difference it makes in their lives. Turns out these kids
are just as intelligent as "normal" kids and these tablets have been
they only really effective conduit to learning and communication for
them.

Autism is a very special case, and while I agree that for those children the
benefits can be in one category, I don't think that is a universal
application. In other words - simply because Autism can benefit does not
mean that every child can derive the same benefit. BTW - it does not "turn
out" that these kids are just as intelligent - that has been known and
ackhowledged for a very long time now.


I have friends with preschooler who are learning to read and write
with things, much faster than old-school flash cards, etc. Best
part... they seem to take to it themselves with very little
supervision. The touch screen interface seems to be the magic part
of the equation in the case of the autistic kids.

I do not disagree with this at all. I have two granddaughters who have
different devices - toys if you will, that are touch screen interfaces.
They maneauver around those in a way that makes us marvel when we watch
them. At the same time, they are far more prolific with a simple Windows
interface than a lot of people our ages that were never exposed to computers
for a long time. My only point is that this stuff is a reflection of a
couple of things. It's indeed a reflection of the interface, but that is
not where it ends. It's also a reflection of when they get introduced to
it, and the fact that as their parents become more computer savy, that level
of comfort passes on down to the kids, and that becomes their starting
point. In the end, they very quickly show signs of advanced understanding -
or usage.

I never stated that I thought touch screen was useless or bad. I only
stated that it does not light my fire. I also said that it is great on my
cell phone but I don't see it as being so convenient on my laptop. That's
me - and that's what I have said throughout this thread. (Not suggesting
you are saying anything different - being more generalized here).

Just wanted to go on record as reiterating my points - though the history is
in this thread and it would be easy to see the things I have really said.
There is another poster here who likes to distort what others have said, and
I'd like my words to stand as I mean them, not as that person would like
them to appear.

--

-Mike-

On 8/31/2012 11:40 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:


Excellent response, Mike ... and one that shines a bright light on the
profound ignorance being shown in this thread by those who protest
their innocence of being dissembling, while, post after post,
continue to spew thinly veiled snideness about technologies of which
they have no experience or ken.

I wonder how many others here, even those that own the technology, would
have used the term "gestures" with the same authority I did in
describing the Ipad's user interface. This coming from a non-owner.
Thus, I suggest, lack of ownership does not necessarily imply a lack of
awareness. I have some ownership of the technology, as we all do, just
because it's part of our culture. I also performed some due-diligence.
Some might quibble about my use of the word ownership, but in my mind
all U.S citizens are owners of the government, our natural resources and
our national debt (too).

Bill




More of Karl's dribble where he tries to postion people in the way that he
wants them to appear. Great woodworker - horrible reader. Thinly veiled is
best applied to Karl's posts.

On 8/31/2012 9:47 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 23:45:19 -0400, wrote:

I haven't heard yapping at your level since junior high...

It's all you've been doing in this entire thread; yapping about others
possessions.


My turn is over, please go amuse someone else.

You're not just a busybody but a passive-aggressive control freak. You could
have just dropped the conversation, some time back, even, but that wouldn't
have satisfied your need for control.

I guess you know me pretty well. Move on.

You're easy. If I was wrong, you would have dropped the issue some time back
but then wouldn't have the last word. Go ahead.

krw,

I'll pray for you to be cured.

Best,
Bill

Bill wrote:

I wonder how many others here, even those that own the technology,
would have used the term "gestures" with the same authority

What do you mean by that Bill? The word gesture is pretty well understood
when it comes to touch interfaces. Not sure what you are trying to say
here.

I have some ownership of the technology, as we all do,
just because it's part of our culture. I also performed some
due-diligence. Some might quibble about my use of the word ownership,
but in my mind all U.S citizens are owners of the government, our
natural resources and our national debt (too).


I'm sure you meant to say something with that Bill but I must confess - it
went right over my head.

--

-Mike-

Bill wrote:


I'll pray for you to be cured.



Ugh-oh... that's going to start a new thread...

--

-Mike-

On 8/31/2012 12:26 PM, Bill wrote:
On 8/31/2012 11:40 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:


Excellent response, Mike ... and one that shines a bright light on the
profound ignorance being shown in this thread by those who protest
their innocence of being dissembling, while, post after post,
continue to spew thinly veiled snideness about technologies of which
they have no experience or ken.

I wonder how many others here, even those that own the technology, would
have used the term "gestures" with the same authority I did in
describing the Ipad's user interface. This coming from a non-owner.
Thus, I suggest, lack of ownership does not necessarily imply a lack of
awareness. I have some ownership of the technology, as we all do, just
because it's part of our culture. I also performed some due-diligence.
Some might quibble about my use of the word ownership, but in my mind
all U.S citizens are owners of the government, our natural resources and
our national debt (too).

Bill

I noticed I use the words own and/or ownership in at least two different
ways. My meaning should be clear from the context. I apologize for any
inconvenience.







More of Karl's dribble where he tries to postion people in the way
that he
wants them to appear. Great woodworker - horrible reader. Thinly
veiled is
best applied to Karl's posts.

On 8/30/2012 2:44 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 00:00:41 -0400, Bill wrote:

OK, but I don't see the correlation between Rolex and Apple. That you
do, says as much about you than it does those who you
talk about.

I'm not sure. I heard about a 7 year-old today who asked his mom
to buy him an iPad. Do you think he saw *bling*?

Maybe but that just makes my point. *YOU* care about what some
unknown little boy wants.

No, I just happen to be in the coffee room when the said story was
told. You'll have to find someone else to argue with though.

Yes. If it didn't bother you (and it clearly does) that a little
boy wanted an iPad, you wouldn't have brought it up here. You
really need to pay more attention to yourself and your family and
less to what others want.

I think it is noteworthy comment about our society that a 7-year old
asked his mom for an Ipad. I guess it's a sign that there is a lot of
marketing going on.

Perhaps, but I think it is more a reflection of what parents are giving
their kids these days. My own thoughts on that were - why in the hell does
a 7 year old need and iPad? But - that's what parents do for and buy for
their kids these days.



Not every 7 year old needs to have an iPad. We still need people to
collect garbage, read electric meters, mow yards, etc.
Keep up or fall behind, that is a plain and simple fact of life.
The same thing was asked 10 years ago about lap tops.

FWIW with the public education system we have today our kids need every
advantage available to them. My son, just turned 25, has always been
around a PC. He sat in my lap at age 2 working letter and number games
on the computer.

Basically speaking here, you cannot start teaching kids values, common
sense, and educating them young enough.

On 8/31/2012 11:26 AM, Bill wrote:
On 8/31/2012 11:40 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Swingman wrote:


Excellent response, Mike ... and one that shines a bright light on the
profound ignorance being shown in this thread by those who protest
their innocence of being dissembling, while, post after post,
continue to spew thinly veiled snideness about technologies of which
they have no experience or ken.

I wonder how many others here, even those that own the technology, would
have used the term "gestures" with the same authority I did in
describing the Ipad's user interface. This coming from a non-owner.
Thus, I suggest, lack of ownership does not necessarily imply a lack of
awareness. I have some ownership of the technology, as we all do, just
because it's part of our culture. I also performed some due-diligence.
Some might quibble about my use of the word ownership, but in my mind
all U.S citizens are owners of the government, our natural resources and
our national debt (too).

Bill


The citizens of the US do own the government, natural resources, and
especially the national debt.

Unfortunately a majority of those in government office do not want you
to believe this fact, except for maybe the one about the national debt.

Unfortunately a majority of the citizens also believe as the government
wants you to believe.

Leon wrote:

Not every 7 year old needs to have an iPad. We still need people to
collect garbage, read electric meters, mow yards, etc.
Keep up or fall behind, that is a plain and simple fact of life.
The same thing was asked 10 years ago about lap tops.

Actually - I do not recall that same thing being asked 10 years ago. I
don't recall at all that 7 year olds needed laptops. Now - having said
that - we have always been a technology household. My kids got to enjoy
some things from a technology perspective that were years ahead of what
their peers would ever see - so I'm not the voice that argues with the
underlying thought. It's the measure of that value that I engage
conversation about. It's one thing to blindly say that everything is good
because it advances knowldege, but it's totally another thing to really
measure and assess that gain.


FWIW with the public education system we have today our kids need
every advantage available to them. My son, just turned 25, has
always been around a PC. He sat in my lap at age 2 working letter
and number games on the computer.

And that is great! That though, does not dispute the only point that I
raised.


Basically speaking here, you cannot start teaching kids values, common
sense, and educating them young enough.

We homeschooled 2 kids. They went on to receive awards and scholarships
from very prestigious schools, and took the schools of their chosing. I
know and I understand the value of teaching kids, of embracing forward
thinking ideas, etc. Maybe more than some here. I also know - from both my
professional life where I observe the outcome of all of these "promises",
and from just being a 59 year old old fart, that so much of this stuff is
just hype. It sounds good, but the measureable results are not as real as
the "promise". Don't get me wrong - I'm not "arguing" against it, I'm
raising a thinking point - which seems to be something of a nusance around
here..

--

-Mike-

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:38:02 -0400, Bill wrote:

On 8/31/2012 9:47 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 23:45:19 -0400, wrote:

I haven't heard yapping at your level since junior high...

It's all you've been doing in this entire thread; yapping about others
possessions.


My turn is over, please go amuse someone else.

You're not just a busybody but a passive-aggressive control freak. You could
have just dropped the conversation, some time back, even, but that wouldn't
have satisfied your need for control.

I guess you know me pretty well. Move on.

You're easy. If I was wrong, you would have dropped the issue some time back
but then wouldn't have the last word. Go ahead.

krw,

I'll pray for you to be cured.

Bill, if your intellect is the "cure", I don't want any.

On 8/31/12 11:06 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
I never stated that I thought touch screen was useless or bad. I only
stated that it does not light my fire. I also said that it is great
on my
cell phone but I don't see it as being so convenient on my laptop.
That's
me - and that's what I have said throughout this thread. (Not suggesting
you are saying anything different - being more generalized here).


I haven't paid close enough attention to know the specifics of the
latest bickering :-).....

For me, the touch screen will be of particular convenience for what I do
as a drummer. At some point I the near future, I will be replacing all
the electronics I use in live performance with an iPad or similar
tablet. Right now, I have many stand-alone devices that take up a lot of
space and need to be wired together. When using a laptop, I need to have
separate trigger pas if anything is to be done during a song. A mouse
just doesn't cut it when both your hands are busy. Even between songs,
having to put down the stick, grab the mouse to click of stuff is very
awkward.

These tablets and their apps combine so much of my hardware into one
little box. The touch interface and having most everything on one screen
makes life soooo much easier on stage.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/31/2012 1:27 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:38:02 -0400, wrote:

On 8/31/2012 9:47 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 23:45:19 -0400, wrote:

I haven't heard yapping at your level since junior high...

It's all you've been doing in this entire thread; yapping about others
possessions.


My turn is over, please go amuse someone else.

You're not just a busybody but a passive-aggressive control freak. You could
have just dropped the conversation, some time back, even, but that wouldn't
have satisfied your need for control.

I guess you know me pretty well. Move on.

You're easy. If I was wrong, you would have dropped the issue some time back
but then wouldn't have the last word. Go ahead.

krw,

I'll pray for you to be cured.

Bill, if your intellect is the "cure", I don't want any.

It's not a matter of intellect. I think you might find a cure in
something more spiritual--not necessarily organized religion, but it
still starts with an r.

-MIKE- wrote:


For me, the touch screen will be of particular convenience for what I
do as a drummer. At some point I the near future, I will be replacing
all the electronics I use in live performance with an iPad or similar
tablet. Right now, I have many stand-alone devices that take up a lot
of space and need to be wired together. When using a laptop, I need
to have separate trigger pas if anything is to be done during a song.
A mouse just doesn't cut it when both your hands are busy. Even
between songs, having to put down the stick, grab the mouse to click
of stuff is very awkward.


So - talk to me about that. As I have said in a previous post - I use the
term mouse to be the same as eraser head, track ball, and any other
alternative that may be out there. I tend to think of eraser heads or pads
these days. So, as I think of it, they seem to be quite intuitive and
quick. It is clear that you find the touch screen to be quicker or more
intuitive. Remember - I'm a touch screen guy - my Galaxy S3 has a great
touch screen that I love. But - I'm thinking simply in terms of how I use
my laptop and what touch screen would mean to that usage, so since you use
yours differently, I'm interested in what you have to say.

It may be that we use our junk differently and that that's just how it is,
for those who really proclaim the values of touch screen, I'm interested in
hearing why they feel that way.

These tablets and their apps combine so much of my hardware into one
little box. The touch interface and having most everything on one
screen makes life soooo much easier on stage.

I can see some of that. Partial vision if you will. It's hard to really
grasp it because I don't really know what you are doing in total. You
know - it's what you don't know that you don't know.

--

-Mike-

On 8/31/2012 12:26 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:

Not every 7 year old needs to have an iPad. We still need people to
collect garbage, read electric meters, mow yards, etc.
Keep up or fall behind, that is a plain and simple fact of life.
The same thing was asked 10 years ago about lap tops.

Actually - I do not recall that same thing being asked 10 years ago. I
don't recall at all that 7 year olds needed laptops. Now - having said
that - we have always been a technology household. My kids got to enjoy
some things from a technology perspective that were years ahead of what
their peers would ever see - so I'm not the voice that argues with the
underlying thought. It's the measure of that value that I engage
conversation about. It's one thing to blindly say that everything is good
because it advances knowldege, but it's totally another thing to really
measure and assess that gain.

Sorry for not showing the natural progression, 10 years ago not all
college students needed laptops. That is a given now. It all trickles
down. In a competitive world time waits for no one. The younger the
kids have the educational technology the better.




FWIW with the public education system we have today our kids need
every advantage available to them. My son, just turned 25, has
always been around a PC. He sat in my lap at age 2 working letter
and number games on the computer.

And that is great! That though, does not dispute the only point that I
raised.

Why does a 7 year old need an iPad? I responded that they don't. We
will still need garbage collectors, meter readers, and yard mowers. You
might as well ask why a 7 year old needs books.



Basically speaking here, you cannot start teaching kids values, common
sense, and educating them young enough.

We homeschooled 2 kids. They went on to receive awards and scholarships
from very prestigious schools, and took the schools of their chosing. I
know and I understand the value of teaching kids, of embracing forward
thinking ideas, etc. Maybe more than some here. I also know - from both my
professional life where I observe the outcome of all of these "promises",
and from just being a 59 year old old fart, that so much of this stuff is
just hype. It sounds good, but the measureable results are not as real as
the "promise". Don't get me wrong - I'm not "arguing" against it, I'm
raising a thinking point - which seems to be something of a nusance around
here..

Your kids are probably an exception, they turned out fine with your home
schooling and close supervision. My son IMHO did exceptionally well but
did not go to the best schools with the exception of his HS.
Until he started Kerr HS I would have called him a little better than
average student. At Kerr HS I would have called him an average student
however that school was new, small, and loaded with technology with a
college atmosphere. He graduated suma cum laude from the Bauer Honors
College at UofH and before turning 23 had his masters degree with deans
honors and after graduating passed all 4 of his CPA exams first try with
an average score of 92.
His scholarships probably paid for 75% of his education. Yes I am
bragging. ;~) If an iPad had been available when he was 7 he would
have had that too.

On 8/31/2012 1:17 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:


For me, the touch screen will be of particular convenience for what I
do as a drummer. At some point I the near future, I will be replacing
all the electronics I use in live performance with an iPad or similar
tablet. Right now, I have many stand-alone devices that take up a lot
of space and need to be wired together. When using a laptop, I need
to have separate trigger pas if anything is to be done during a song.
A mouse just doesn't cut it when both your hands are busy. Even
between songs, having to put down the stick, grab the mouse to click
of stuff is very awkward.


So - talk to me about that. As I have said in a previous post - I use the
term mouse to be the same as eraser head, track ball, and any other
alternative that may be out there. I tend to think of eraser heads or pads
these days. So, as I think of it, they seem to be quite intuitive and
quick. It is clear that you find the touch screen to be quicker or more
intuitive. Remember - I'm a touch screen guy - my Galaxy S3 has a great
touch screen that I love. But - I'm thinking simply in terms of how I use
my laptop and what touch screen would mean to that usage, so since you use
yours differently, I'm interested in what you have to say.

It may be that we use our junk differently and that that's just how it is,
for those who really proclaim the values of touch screen, I'm interested in
hearing why they feel that way.

These tablets and their apps combine so much of my hardware into one
little box. The touch interface and having most everything on one
screen makes life soooo much easier on stage.

I can see some of that. Partial vision if you will. It's hard to really
grasp it because I don't really know what you are doing in total. You
know - it's what you don't know that you don't know.


This might be a comparison, Galaxy S3 to an iPad as is the comparison of
a Festool vac to a "Shop Vac. Just because they are similar does not
mean that they are comparable.

Would you consider using your Galaxy in place of a laptop? Just asking
as I don't know what it's capabilities are.

Leon wrote:


Why does a 7 year old need an iPad? I responded that they don't. We
will still need garbage collectors, meter readers, and yard mowers. You
might as well ask why a 7 year old needs books.


I guess I felt a sentimental response to that Leon. I think that statements
like that are very condescending and very presumptuous. To suggest that
kids who don't enjoy these types of advantage are good candidates for
garbage collectors is really wrong. I'm sorry Leon - I am not trying to
offend you, but that is a really ostentatious statement. It's even more
peculiar in the face of the number of comments here about the value of
traditional teachings and all that stuff. I guess this is a point that we
might agree to disagree on to some point. We would both agree on the value
of technology, but I think we disagree on simply embracing any one
technology simply because it is there.



Your kids are probably an exception, they turned out fine with your
home schooling and close supervision. My son IMHO did exceptionally
well but did not go to the best schools with the exception of his HS.
Until he started Kerr HS I would have called him a little better than
average student. At Kerr HS I would have called him an average
student however that school was new, small, and loaded with
technology with a college atmosphere. He graduated suma cum laude
from the Bauer Honors College at UofH

Suma cum laude here too. Sure does make a parent proud - doesn't it?

and before turning 23 had his
masters degree with deans honors and after graduating passed all 4 of
his CPA exams first try with an average score of 92.

In the world of social work/psychology, that is harder to obtain in that
same time frame, but our middle got there in admirable time. Too bad that a
Masters just does not mean that much...

The others have done as well but in their fields, it's just a "requirement".
Really sucks - they do all of this work just to meet a minimum requirement.


--

-Mike-

Leon wrote:


This might be a comparison, Galaxy S3 to an iPad as is the comparison
of a Festool vac to a "Shop Vac. Just because they are similar does
not mean that they are comparable.

Would you consider using your Galaxy in place of a laptop? Just
asking as I don't know what it's capabilities are.

Not sure, but maybe not so much of an analogy Leon. I get where you are
trying to go, but in the case of the Galaxy and the iPod - they are much
more similar in the user interface (which is what we are talking about). In
fact, the recent lawsuit settlement just declaired that very thing - that
Samsung had too much "copied" the Apple stuff. So - not so much of a
comparison to the Festool/any-other-tool comparison.

--

-Mike-

I walk right past the sequin-coated iphone covers and would run away
from a sequin-covered festool. I saw a derringer once where the grip
was diamonds in lucite. I had one thought ... why?
Casper

You sir, are a man of discrimating tastes. Hats off to ya!
Mike Marlow

LOL .. thanks for the compliment .. just one thing .. I'm a woman.
Casper

Even better! I'd ask "34B?" but that would be inappropriate, so I won't...
Mike Marlow

Maybe yesterday .. not today .. not after the mammogram machines. :/

On 8/31/12 1:17 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:


For me, the touch screen will be of particular convenience for what I
do as a drummer. At some point I the near future, I will be replacing
all the electronics I use in live performance with an iPad or similar
tablet. Right now, I have many stand-alone devices that take up a lot
of space and need to be wired together. When using a laptop, I need
to have separate trigger pas if anything is to be done during a song.
A mouse just doesn't cut it when both your hands are busy. Even
between songs, having to put down the stick, grab the mouse to click
of stuff is very awkward.


So - talk to me about that. As I have said in a previous post - I use the
term mouse to be the same as eraser head, track ball, and any other
alternative that may be out there. I tend to think of eraser heads or pads
these days. So, as I think of it, they seem to be quite intuitive and
quick.

I see the touch screen for computers as the same revolutionary
breakthrough that was the mouse. Before you have to type in codes on a
keyboard to get the computer to do a task. With the mouse, you point,
click and drag to do the task. That was obviously more intuitive,
simpler, and the user certainly had to "think" less about what he was
doing in order to get it done.
With the touch screen, the conduit between my hand and screen, that was
the mouse (trackball, etc.), is now erased and nothing stands between me
pointing, clicking and dragging. My hand is now the only conduit between
by brain and the task I wish the computer to do. Voice command, which
will improve in leaps and bounds, now removes the the hand as the
conduit. The next obvious revolution is to remove all conduits between
the brain and the computer by developing brain reading capabilities. :-)

So obviously, for me and I would think, most... touching the screen is
much more efficient than touching another object and having to
manipulate it to translate my intentions. Now, there are still times
when I like to have a mouse and keyboard, but I suspect that's just
because software hasn't kept up with interface technology.


It is clear that you find the touch screen to be quicker or more
intuitive. Remember - I'm a touch screen guy - my Galaxy S3 has a great
touch screen that I love. But - I'm thinking simply in terms of how I use
my laptop and what touch screen would mean to that usage, so since you use
yours differently, I'm interested in what you have to say.

It may be that we use our junk differently and that that's just how it is,
for those who really proclaim the values of touch screen, I'm interested in
hearing why they feel that way.

These tablets and their apps combine so much of my hardware into one
little box. The touch interface and having most everything on one
screen makes life soooo much easier on stage.

I can see some of that. Partial vision if you will. It's hard to really
grasp it because I don't really know what you are doing in total. You
know - it's what you don't know that you don't know.


Here's what going on when I'm performing on stage with the use of
electronics. The reasons and specific situation that might lead to me
using one or more of these devices isn't pertinent, so I get into the whys.

In any given performance/rehearsal situation, I may have one, more, or
all of the following devices on stage, beside me. Metronome("click"),
laptop, loops/drum machine, triggering pads/pedals, audio/midi
interface, digital music player, in-ear monitor amp and mixer, beat-bug
device (drumming "tachometer" tell me how fact I'm playing), chart book
of songs, set list, and whatever else I'm forgetting.

In addition to actually performing music on stage, my hands and/or feet
are also periodically occupied with pushing buttons and turning knobs on
all these devices, and using the mouse to do stuff on the laptop.

Many to most of these tasks are done between songs, like flipping the
page in the chart book, setting the click to the next song, setting the
music player to the next song and listening to its preview, selecting
the next song on the computer to play loops and/or accompanying tracks,
selecting the next bank of samples on the triggering device, etc.

But many of these tasks and others are done during a song performance,
during a tacet section or while I'm actually still playing drums...
adjusting my in-ear mix/volume, adjusting the click or beat bug,
triggering samples/loops/backing tracks, doing tasks on some devices to
set up the next song if there is little or no break between the next
song, and other stuff I forget.

An iPad or similar tablet removes many of these separate devices from
the equation and combines them into one box, in many cases for cheaper
than the sum total of all the devices. It removes a lot of the wiring
and inter-connectivity. It takes up a fraction of the space. It gives me
ONE surface on which to make adjustments for many tasks that previously
required different surfaces in different locations. It removes the
mouse/track pad from the equation and allows me to touch what I want to
happen. That alone, for my specific use in stage performance, makes it
totally worth the price of admission.

There are tablet apps out there right now, that allow you to make a set
list for a performance that includes your sheet music/charts, a
metronome/click, and audio samples of each song... all of which get
triggered by touching the next song on the screen... OR can be set to
start automatically after the previous song stops. Rearranging the set
list is as easy as touching and dragging each song title up or down on
the screen and could take less than a minute. It could take 20 minutes
with all the separate devices. 20 minutes may not seem like long, unless
the artists decides to change the set list 5 minutes before curtain. :-)

I'll stop there, because it's already very long winded... hopefully
that's a good enough explanation.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Casper wrote:
I walk right past the sequin-coated iphone covers and would run away
from a sequin-covered festool. I saw a derringer once where the grip
was diamonds in lucite. I had one thought ... why?
Casper

You sir, are a man of discrimating tastes. Hats off to ya!
Mike Marlow

LOL .. thanks for the compliment .. just one thing .. I'm a woman.
Casper

Even better! I'd ask "34B?" but that would be inappropriate, so I
won't... Mike Marlow

Maybe yesterday .. not today .. not after the mammogram machines. :/

Ugh! My wife advises me about that torture. I'm almost glad about the
afflictions I deal with as a guy compared to what she tells me...

--

-Mike-

-MIKE- wrote:
On 8/31/12 1:17 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:


I'll stop there, because it's already very long winded... hopefully
that's a good enough explanation.

It was Mike - thanks for the effort. All I can say is that you do way, way,
way too much! As a musician, I cannot imagine doing all of that stuff you
outlined. Nor could I imagine putting up with someone who was that focused
on things besides making the music. God Bless ya - I just can't understand
it. I think you have created a technology trap of your own devices, but - I
get it. You are trying to do something and you're using everything that
fits that effort. I've just never - not ever, played with any musician that
was this encumbered by technology. And I've played with some real
technology nuts...

--

-Mike-

On 8/31/2012 3:02 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
An iPad or similar tablet removes many of these separate devices from
the equation and combines them into one box, in many cases for cheaper
than the sum total of all the devices. It removes a lot of the wiring
and inter-connectivity. It takes up a fraction of the space. It gives me
ONE surface on which to make adjustments for many tasks that previously
required different surfaces in different locations. It removes the
mouse/track pad from the equation and allows me to touch what I want to
happen. That alone, for my specific use in stage performance, makes it
totally worth the price of admission.

There are tablet apps out there right now, that allow you to make a set
list for a performance that includes your sheet music/charts, a
metronome/click, and audio samples of each song... all of which get
triggered by touching the next song on the screen... OR can be set to
start automatically after the previous song stops. Rearranging the set
list is as easy as touching and dragging each song title up or down on
the screen and could take less than a minute. It could take 20 minutes
with all the separate devices. 20 minutes may not seem like long, unless
the artists decides to change the set list 5 minutes before curtain. :-)

I've been using the iPad app "OnSong" for chord charts and music when
playing.

Freaking awesome is the only way to describe it.

You can enter charts a number of ways, including downloading them off
the 'net; multiple charts/set lists for playing with different bands;
charts can be set to the tempo of the tune so they scroll up the screen,
in time, as the tune is being played, no page turning; you can set it to
follow along with music on the device; transposing keys on chord charts
is a one touch gesture (great for when singers sit in and don't sing it
the band's usual key); it can be synched to other devices in the band
over BT, onstage while playing; plays a click track; works with foot
pedals, will output to VGA/HDMI stage monitor; DropBox import/export; no
need for music stand lights, ad infinitum.

Use it once onstage and you won't go back to a songbook or paper chord
charts, guaranteed.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 14:01:00 -0400, Bill wrote:

On 8/31/2012 1:27 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:38:02 -0400, wrote:

On 8/31/2012 9:47 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 23:45:19 -0400, wrote:

I haven't heard yapping at your level since junior high...

It's all you've been doing in this entire thread; yapping about others
possessions.


My turn is over, please go amuse someone else.

You're not just a busybody but a passive-aggressive control freak. You could
have just dropped the conversation, some time back, even, but that wouldn't
have satisfied your need for control.

I guess you know me pretty well. Move on.

You're easy. If I was wrong, you would have dropped the issue some time back
but then wouldn't have the last word. Go ahead.

krw,

I'll pray for you to be cured.

Bill, if your intellect is the "cure", I don't want any.

It's not a matter of intellect. I think you might find a cure in
something more spiritual--not necessarily organized religion, but it
still starts with an r.

Idiot.

On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 14:01:00 -0400, Bill
wrote:

On 8/31/2012 1:27 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:38:02 -0400, wrote:

On 8/31/2012 9:47 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 23:45:19 -0400, wrote:


Buy a clue.

--
I have the consolation of having added nothing to my private fortune during
my public service, and of retiring with hands clean as they are empty.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Count Diodati, 1807

Too bad -none- of the current CONgresscritters are willing to do that. -LJ

On 8/31/2012 1:25 PM, Leon wrote:

His scholarships probably paid for 75% of his education. Yes I am
bragging. ;~) If an iPad had been available when he was 7 he would
have had that too.

Keep looking for the "Like" button ... damned technology.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Bill wrote:
On 8/31/2012 12:26 PM, Bill posted a quote:

More of Karl's dribble where he tries to postion people in the way
that he
wants them to appear. Great woodworker - horrible reader. Thinly
veiled is best applied to Karl's posts.

LOL ... Normally would not have seen it, but coming directly from an
expert in the practice, that latter should be taken as a compliment.

--
www.ewoodshop.com

On 8/31/12 3:19 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
-MIKE- wrote:
On 8/31/12 1:17 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:


I'll stop there, because it's already very long winded... hopefully
that's a good enough explanation.

It was Mike - thanks for the effort. All I can say is that you do way, way,
way too much!

That's one perspective. :-) It seems like a lot when it's all
written out but it's just been a natural evolution of making things
better and easier to do in making music. A lot like woodworking...
after years of doing it, we acquire a lot of tools, jigs and gadgets.
From the outside someone might look at all the stuff we use and like we
do way, way, way to much just to make a simple chair. We didn't decide,
one day, to be a woodworker and go to woodcraft and buy everything in
our shop in one afternoon. We also made our first chair using a lot,
lot few things than we now use.


As a musician, I cannot imagine doing all of that stuff you
outlined. Nor could I imagine putting up with someone who was that focused
on things besides making the music. God Bless ya - I just can't understand
it.

It's not a matter of putting up with them. It's a matter of wanting to...
1. offer the best possible situation to those hiring me,
2. be as competitive as possible as a professional musician, and
3. make my job easier.
You may look at all that stuff as being more difficult, but it actually
makes my job as a professional side man easier.

One year, I looked back at my charts from the previous couple years
(never throw them out!) and realized that I had to "learn" over 300
songs in that period of time. I put "learn" in quote because often times
you never end up actually learning the tunes. When I get called to sub a
weekend road gig on Wednesday and the bus leaves Friday, there's no way
I'm going to "learn" 16 songs in 36 hours. Hopefully, the regular
drummer gives me his charts. But other times, it's a new artist who goes
through a lot of musicians and they just haven't planned ahead enough,
so I have to chart them all.

I have a shorthand charting system, similar to the Nashville Number
System, that I use to write out a quick road map of the song. I can do
about a song an hour that includes playing through the song on drums a
couple times, but sometimes I don't get to do that. In most cases, I
haven't even heard most of the songs before (if I'm lucky, I'm familiar
with some of the covers), let alone played them enough to look at a
title on a set list and instantly recognize the tempo, groove, and intro
fill, so I can count it in and go. That's what the metronome, mp3
player/laptop, and charts are for.

In the time it would take me to look at a chart and read whatever
rhythms I notated or slang terms I used to tell me how the song starts
(120bpm / Bo Diddley beat / intro: pat boone-debbie boone), I can listen
to the beginning of the song cued up on the mp3 player or laptop through
my in-ears and be instantly reminded of the tempo, the groove, and
exactly how the song starts and am already singing it in my head. I can
be a lot more confident that way and I can start the song with a lot
more authority. Singers and players notice those things and it makes
them play better and enjoy the performance more. It also keeps the phone
ringing. :-)

The BeatBug device is also something that makes life a lot easier when
you have to play with an artist and other musicians with which you may
have never played. If a metronome is cruise control, then the BeatBug is
a speedometer. It doesn't tell me how fast to play, it tells me how fast
I am playing. As we all know, many groups play songs faster or slower
than they are on their records. Other times, there are just a lot of
people on stage with horrible time and they just will not stay with you
no matter how hard you pull the reigns. These are a couple reasons I
might have to either turn the click off or pay a lot more attention than
usual to the tempo of the song. I can glance at the BeatBug to see where
we are playing the song and if it feels good, notate that on my chart.
If if felt great to everyone, I can start that song at that tempo the
next night. If the singer or band leader says, "Hey, insert title here
was a bit too fast" or "was dragging a bit," I can reference the tempo I
marked down and adjust accordingly. If the singer says, "It was took
fast" and the BL says, "It was dragging," then I know I'm in for a fun
weekend. :-)


I think you have created a technology trap of your own devices, but - I
get it. You are trying to do something and you're using everything that
fits that effort. I've just never - not ever, played with any musician that
was this encumbered by technology. And I've played with some real
technology nuts...


See, you call it encumbering, whereas I call it enabling.
It's all still making music, even though you may see it as "other
things." There are times when I show up with nothing more than drum
sticks and music is made, sometimes it's great music, sometimes, bad.
There are those who saw electronic keyboards as cheating or focusing on
sounds rather than music. I see them as just another way for an artist
to bring across what he hears in his head. That's what all the other
things I use (laptop/tracks/loops/samples/trigger pads) do for the
artists for whom I play. It allows an artist who can't afford an
orchestra, horn section, or 9 piece rhythm section to still sound the
way she does on her CD with 3 or 4 accompanying musicians. It allows her
to still give her audience a 'big' show and still be an affordable act
for the promoter.

Now you may be tempted to start lamenting modern music and its use of
backing tracks and how bands were so much better back in the day when
they only had 4 guys and they played everything themselves. Before you
do, go on Youtube and do a search for The Who. Check out the old clips
of the original band and you'll see a lot of live performances with
Keith Moon wearing big studio headphones. It wasn't because he started
to take an interest in protecting his hearing. It's because Pete started
writing his songs with synthesizer and they recorded with string
sections and other instruments they didn't play live, but they wanted
the audience to hear the whole songs, live. Keith wore the headphones to
hear the tape playback and stay in time. They weren't the only band
doing that.

What is done in live performance, now, is not new. It's just more
affordable, portable and accessible.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 8/31/12 3:51 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 8/31/2012 3:02 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
An iPad or similar tablet removes many of these separate devices from
the equation and combines them into one box, in many cases for cheaper
than the sum total of all the devices. It removes a lot of the wiring
and inter-connectivity. It takes up a fraction of the space. It gives me
ONE surface on which to make adjustments for many tasks that previously
required different surfaces in different locations. It removes the
mouse/track pad from the equation and allows me to touch what I want to
happen. That alone, for my specific use in stage performance, makes it
totally worth the price of admission.

There are tablet apps out there right now, that allow you to make a set
list for a performance that includes your sheet music/charts, a
metronome/click, and audio samples of each song... all of which get
triggered by touching the next song on the screen... OR can be set to
start automatically after the previous song stops. Rearranging the set
list is as easy as touching and dragging each song title up or down on
the screen and could take less than a minute. It could take 20 minutes
with all the separate devices. 20 minutes may not seem like long, unless
the artists decides to change the set list 5 minutes before curtain. :-)

I've been using the iPad app "OnSong" for chord charts and music when
playing.

Freaking awesome is the only way to describe it.

You can enter charts a number of ways, including downloading them off
the 'net; multiple charts/set lists for playing with different bands;
charts can be set to the tempo of the tune so they scroll up the screen,
in time, as the tune is being played, no page turning; you can set it to
follow along with music on the device; transposing keys on chord charts
is a one touch gesture (great for when singers sit in and don't sing it
the band's usual key); it can be synched to other devices in the band
over BT, onstage while playing; plays a click track; works with foot
pedals, will output to VGA/HDMI stage monitor; DropBox import/export; no
need for music stand lights, ad infinitum.

Use it once onstage and you won't go back to a songbook or paper chord
charts, guaranteed.


That looks like another good one, Karl. Great thing about an iPad for
what I do, is that they are coming out with new apps (freakin cheap,
too) all the time or upgrading the one you already have for cheap. So
instead of trying to sell outdated hardware to upgrade to the improved
stuff, you just buy another app.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:


Now you may be tempted to start lamenting modern music and its use of
backing tracks and how bands were so much better back in the day when
they only had 4 guys and they played everything themselves. Before you
do, go on Youtube and do a search for The Who. Check out the old clips
of the original band and you'll see a lot of live performances with
Keith Moon wearing big studio headphones. It wasn't because he started
to take an interest in protecting his hearing. It's because Pete
started writing his songs with synthesizer and they recorded with
string sections and other instruments they didn't play live, but they
wanted
the audience to hear the whole songs, live. Keith wore the headphones
to hear the tape playback and stay in time. They weren't the only band
doing that.

Yeah - The Who made extensive use of backing tracks. I remember being
disappointed in seeing them live the first time and realizing that they were
using tracks, but it just became the way they did it and it was all good.

--

-Mike-

Ok guys - think of the old days.

Speak and Spell. several versions - math and language..

The price on those were up there.

How about Star War toys - way up there.

The schools are promoting apple products for some time.

Lots of kid stuff on them and maybe a friend had one or their Mom did....

Could be worse. At least they are thinking computers. Jobs nowadays
require computer backgrounds. Even the UPS people use scanners and GPS.....



Martin

On 8/30/2012 2:44 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 00:00:41 -0400, Bill wrote:

OK, but I don't see the correlation between Rolex and Apple. That you
do, says as much about you than it does those who you
talk about.

I'm not sure. I heard about a 7 year-old today who asked his mom
to buy him an iPad. Do you think he saw *bling*?

Maybe but that just makes my point. *YOU* care about what some
unknown little boy wants.

No, I just happen to be in the coffee room when the said story was
told. You'll have to find someone else to argue with though.

Yes. If it didn't bother you (and it clearly does) that a little
boy wanted an iPad, you wouldn't have brought it up here. You
really need to pay more attention to yourself and your family and
less to what others want.

I think it is noteworthy comment about our society that a 7-year old
asked his mom for an Ipad. I guess it's a sign that there is a lot of
marketing going on.

Perhaps, but I think it is more a reflection of what parents are giving
their kids these days. My own thoughts on that were - why in the hell does
a 7 year old need and iPad? But - that's what parents do for and buy for
their kids these days.

I think one concept to consider - hand -eye coordination.

They want to press that button to see the Pig fly. They learn
like eating. Natural and more.

Martin

On 8/30/2012 3:37 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 8/30/12 2:44 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Bill wrote:
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2012 00:00:41 -0400, Bill wrote:

OK, but I don't see the correlation between Rolex and Apple.
That you
do, says as much about you than it does those who you
talk about.

I'm not sure. I heard about a 7 year-old today who asked his mom
to buy him an iPad. Do you think he saw *bling*?

Maybe but that just makes my point. *YOU* care about what some
unknown little boy wants.

No, I just happen to be in the coffee room when the said story was
told. You'll have to find someone else to argue with though.

Yes. If it didn't bother you (and it clearly does) that a little
boy wanted an iPad, you wouldn't have brought it up here. You
really need to pay more attention to yourself and your family and
less to what others want.

I think it is noteworthy comment about our society that a 7-year old
asked his mom for an Ipad. I guess it's a sign that there is a lot of
marketing going on.

Perhaps, but I think it is more a reflection of what parents are giving
their kids these days. My own thoughts on that were - why in the hell
does
a 7 year old need and iPad? But - that's what parents do for and buy for
their kids these days.


Not to start another whole debate.... well, that *is* what we do, so
here goes.....

Kids, especially very young ones, are doing extremely well with learning
on tablets. The touch interface has opened up whole new realms of early
developmental learning that were never before thought possible.

They have been especially revolutionary in helping autistic kids learn
and *communicate* with others. There are videos out there showing before
and after of kids with autism and it brings tears to your eyes to see
the difference it makes in their lives. Turns out these kids are just as
intelligent as "normal" kids and these tablets have been they only
really effective conduit to learning and communication for them.

I have friends with preschooler who are learning to read and write with
things, much faster than old-school flash cards, etc. Best part... they
seem to take to it themselves with very little supervision. The touch
screen interface seems to be the magic part of the equation in the case
of the autistic kids.

Swingman wrote:
Bill wrote:
On 8/31/2012 12:26 PM, Bill posted a quote:

More of Karl's dribble where he tries to postion people in the way
that he
wants them to appear. Great woodworker - horrible reader. Thinly
veiled is best applied to Karl's posts.

LOL ... Normally would not have seen it, but coming directly from an
expert in the practice, that latter should be taken as a compliment.



Swing, I did NOT WRITE ANY of the above.

On 8/31/2012 1:47 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


Why does a 7 year old need an iPad? I responded that they don't. We
will still need garbage collectors, meter readers, and yard mowers. You
might as well ask why a 7 year old needs books.


I guess I felt a sentimental response to that Leon. I think that statements
like that are very condescending and very presumptuous. To suggest that
kids who don't enjoy these types of advantage are good candidates for
garbage collectors is really wrong. I'm sorry Leon - I am not trying to
offend you, but that is a really ostentatious statement. It's even more
peculiar in the face of the number of comments here about the value of
traditional teachings and all that stuff. I guess this is a point that we
might agree to disagree on to some point. We would both agree on the value
of technology, but I think we disagree on simply embracing any one
technology simply because it is there.

I am inferring more that some one that does not believe a child should
not have every advantage is the person that might hold the child back,
intentional or not. If parents can afford to supply their child with
the latest and greatest educational material and devices they should do so.