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#1
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New Shop
Work begins today on my new shop, slab is being formed as I
type. 75 tons of #57 was delivered earlier in the week for the base pad. If the weather cooperates I should have a shiny new slab at the end of the day. It will be a combination woodworking/mechanic/metal shop with the meatal working portion sequestered on one end, 36'X72'. My requirements were for something relatively inexpensive, low maintenance and somewhat fire proof- slab on grade, cinderblock walls, steel trusses on 12' centers and galvalume roof, fits the bill. Once the blocks are laid all the work will be mine from that point forward. I'm building out of pocket and the work will have to stop for a couple of months after blocks are laid, mostly due to the fact that the college my eldest daughter goes to suddenly decided that they would no longer accept tuition payments by the quarter, only in full and upfront, a large expense I was not expecting. Pictures when there is something to see. basilisk |
#2
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New Shop
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 07:52:23 -0500, basilisk
Work begins today on my new shop, slab is being formed as I type. 75 tons of #57 was delivered earlier in the week for the base pad. Dimensions of this shop? And if you're up to it, perhaps some costs of putting it up along the way? Thanks. |
#3
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New Shop
On 8/2/2012 7:58 AM, Dave wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 07:52:23 -0500, Work begins today on my new shop, slab is being formed as I type. 75 tons of #57 was delivered earlier in the week for the base pad. Dimensions of this shop? And if you're up to it, perhaps some costs of putting it up along the way? Thanks. Quoting OP... ... woodworking/mechanic/metal shop with the me[a]tal working portion sequestered on one end, 36'X72'. I would presume that's overall. Didn't mention height, however... -- |
#4
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New Shop
On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:58:24 -0400, Dave wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 07:52:23 -0500, basilisk Work begins today on my new shop, slab is being formed as I type. 75 tons of #57 was delivered earlier in the week for the base pad. Dimensions of this shop? And if you're up to it, perhaps some costs of putting it up along the way? Thanks. 36 ft X 72 ft Cost of bare building including slab and wiring will be around 25k, give or take a couple. Lots of things conspire to help keep the cost down, for instance, gravel delivered at cost(friend in trucking business), poly to go under slab was acquired from a rail reloading yard, enough for 5 layers of fiberglass reinforced poly, concrete at $30 under market/ yard (friend in concrete business), concrete block factory that will sell direct and only 20 miles away, already been given enough 4/0 entrance cable for run from nearest power box (150ft)etc, etc. Even with all this I could have put up a Quoset type building for somewhat less, but damn those things are ugly. basilisk |
#5
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New Shop
On 8/2/2012 9:21 AM, basilisk wrote:
On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:58:24 -0400, Dave wrote: .... Dimensions of this shop? And if you're up to it, perhaps some costs of putting it up along the way? Thanks. 36 ft X 72 ft Inquiring minds and all that... What's eave height going to be? Cost of bare building including slab and wiring will be around 25k, give or take a couple. Lots of things conspire to help keep the cost down, .... Even with all this I could have put up a Quoset type building for somewhat less, but damn those things are ugly. I've ached for a enclosable-enough machine shed/shop area since returned to farm -- the old barn is a little bigger footprint but too short to get anything bigger than pickup into and alleyway designed for wagon means even the 3/4T is hard to get out of when in... The old machine shed was fine for the 30's-40's but it's only 24x40 and only 10-ft height. I can get the big truck (barely) and the manlift in but it's 3/4 full after doing so and it's just a homebuilt pole barn. It is surely cold in winter and hot in summer to try to have to work on equipment... I had thought to put the woodworking shop in the barn loft but it'll take putting together a lift of old forklift mast or some such and it's still not heatable or even feasible to consider closing it up tight enough to try... But, at this age it's hard to bring self to spend the amount req'd when not that long a horizon ahead any longer...could have built a Morton or similar for the amount put into the old barn restoration but just couldn't stand the thought of it going away--it's the last old wood barn left in the county that I'm aware of that isn't nearly completely gone at best... -- |
#6
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New Shop
"basilisk" wrote in message ... On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:58:24 -0400, Dave wrote: Cost of bare building including slab and wiring will be around 25k, give or take a couple. Lots of things conspire to help keep the cost down, The one thing that keeps me from doing something like this, or an oversize garage/shop is that the additional taxes (which are based on the market assessment vs. the cost) and utilities would be unpleasant. For example, a friend of mine built a house by himself with about half out of pocket. Including the land he had about $150K in it. The tax assessors decided it was worth $450K based on comps... The guy was working for the town at the time and his wife was not employed. Getting hit with $16K tax bills on a $45K salary about killed him... he had to change jobs and eliminate about everything but food from his life. They are virtual prisoners in their home between the taxes, mortgage and utilities... his truck is aging and the RE market is down. Another friend increased the size of his mud room by about 20 sq feet while replacing the rotted out one and got totally creamed on his reassessment. His case is a good example of why people don't get building permits! While I figured out that I could put up a building myself, with similar help from my friends, for around $15-18K it looks like the assessment would be more like $50-60K at a minimum. That would add at least $2K, and likely much more, to the tax bill each year forever... The last time the area was reassessed they increased one of my properties by 285%. Yes, two hundred and eighty five percent! With the help of a realtor friend of mine who pulled comps for me I successfully documented and fought it. At the same time I personally knew others who had similar things happen who flat out lost their appeals because they tried to argue it was "too high" without anything to back it. Adding additions or new structures to my property opens me up to a reassessment that could be very difficult to fight... Adding in maintenance and the additional utilities to make it usable year round makes keeping my shop within my existing footprint very attractive... and forces me to keep in clean! John |
#7
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New Shop
On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 09:38:48 -0500, dpb wrote:
On 8/2/2012 9:21 AM, basilisk wrote: On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:58:24 -0400, Dave wrote: ... Dimensions of this shop? And if you're up to it, perhaps some costs of putting it up along the way? Thanks. 36 ft X 72 ft Inquiring minds and all that... What's eave height going to be? Block walls will be 9' 3", however, the trusses I'm going to use will be higher in the middle and won't be quite so confining. Enough height in the middle to drive the backhoe through. Cost of bare building including slab and wiring will be around 25k, give or take a couple. Lots of things conspire to help keep the cost down, ... Even with all this I could have put up a Quoset type building for somewhat less, but damn those things are ugly. I've ached for a enclosable-enough machine shed/shop area since returned to farm -- the old barn is a little bigger footprint but too short to get anything bigger than pickup into and alleyway designed for wagon means even the 3/4T is hard to get out of when in... The old machine shed was fine for the 30's-40's but it's only 24x40 and only 10-ft height. I can get the big truck (barely) and the manlift in but it's 3/4 full after doing so and it's just a homebuilt pole barn. It is surely cold in winter and hot in summer to try to have to work on equipment... I had thought to put the woodworking shop in the barn loft but it'll take putting together a lift of old forklift mast or some such and it's still not heatable or even feasible to consider closing it up tight enough to try... Heating isn't a problem in AL, cooling is though, I expect to have some big ass fans in the end walls. But, at this age it's hard to bring self to spend the amount req'd when not that long a horizon ahead any longer...could have built a Morton or similar for the amount put into the old barn restoration but just couldn't stand the thought of it going away--it's the last old wood barn left in the county that I'm aware of that isn't nearly completely gone at best... I would have been better financialy prepared in a couple more years but I am old enough to appreciate "if not now when"? basilisk |
#8
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New Shop
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 11:08:10 -0400, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"basilisk" wrote in message ... On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:58:24 -0400, Dave wrote: Cost of bare building including slab and wiring will be around 25k, give or take a couple. Lots of things conspire to help keep the cost down, The one thing that keeps me from doing something like this, or an oversize garage/shop is that the additional taxes (which are based on the market assessment vs. the cost) and utilities would be unpleasant. For example, a friend of mine built a house by himself with about half out of pocket. Including the land he had about $150K in it. The tax assessors decided it was worth $450K based on comps... The guy was working for the town at the time and his wife was not employed. Getting hit with $16K tax bills on a $45K salary about killed him... he had to change jobs and eliminate about everything but food from his life. They are virtual prisoners in their home between the taxes, mortgage and utilities... his truck is aging and the RE market is down. Another friend increased the size of his mud room by about 20 sq feet while replacing the rotted out one and got totally creamed on his reassessment. His case is a good example of why people don't get building permits! While I figured out that I could put up a building myself, with similar help from my friends, for around $15-18K it looks like the assessment would be more like $50-60K at a minimum. That would add at least $2K, and likely much more, to the tax bill each year forever... Great guns! I don't recall what the assessed value of my property is but in real dollars of worth to dollars paid in taxes it works out to $2.50 taxes to 1000k in prperty value. Property in AL is usually under assessed not over assessed. The last time the area was reassessed they increased one of my properties by 285%. Yes, two hundred and eighty five percent! With the help of a realtor friend of mine who pulled comps for me I successfully documented and fought it. At the same time I personally knew others who had similar things happen who flat out lost their appeals because they tried to argue it was "too high" without anything to back it. Adding additions or new structures to my property opens me up to a reassessment that could be very difficult to fight... Adding in maintenance and the additional utilities to make it usable year round makes keeping my shop within my existing footprint very attractive... and forces me to keep in clean! John Property taxes are low here, and as the county I'm in has no permitting structure it may be years before the shop even adds anything to them. They will add it at the next physical assessment. Power company doesn't care what you do as long as you pay your bill and don't do something idiotic to shut their system. I had the foresight to put a 400 amp service in my house and everything feeds from there.(albeit at the expense of running heavy cable underground all over the place) basilisk basilisk |
#9
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New Shop
On Thursday, August 2, 2012 8:08:10 AM UTC-7, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"basilisk" wrote in message ... On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:58:24 -0400, Dave wrote: Cost of bare building including slab and wiring will be around 25k, give or take a couple. Lots of things conspire to help keep the cost down, The one thing that keeps me from doing something like this, or an oversize garage/shop is that the additional taxes (which are based on the market assessment vs. the cost) and utilities would be unpleasant. For example, a friend of mine built a house by himself with about half out of pocket. Including the land he had about $150K in it. The tax assessors decided it was worth $450K based on comps... The guy was working for the town at the time and his wife was not employed. Getting hit with $16K tax bills on a $45K salary about killed him... he had to change jobs and eliminate about everything but food from his life. They are virtual prisoners in their home between the taxes, mortgage and utilities... his truck is aging and the RE market is down. Another friend increased the size of his mud room by about 20 sq feet while replacing the rotted out one and got totally creamed on his reassessment. His case is a good example of why people don't get building permits! While I figured out that I could put up a building myself, with similar help from my friends, for around $15-18K it looks like the assessment would be more like $50-60K at a minimum. That would add at least $2K, and likely much more, to the tax bill each year forever... The last time the area was reassessed they increased one of my properties by 285%. Yes, two hundred and eighty five percent! With the help of a realtor friend of mine who pulled comps for me I successfully documented and fought it. At the same time I personally knew others who had similar things happen who flat out lost their appeals because they tried to argue it was "too high" without anything to back it. Adding additions or new structures to my property opens me up to a reassessment that could be very difficult to fight... Adding in maintenance and the additional utilities to make it usable year round makes keeping my shop within my existing footprint very attractive... and forces me to keep in clean! John Hey, they didn't build that on their own. They need to pay back the gov't for all the roads and briges and the teachers that help them make it to where they are. It's only faor that the half of the population that is paying taxes pays more if they have any success from their hard work so those who aren't paying taxes can still get all of their freebies. |
#10
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New Shop
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message ... Hey, they didn't build that on their own. They need to pay back the gov't for all the roads and briges and the teachers that help them make it to where they are. It's only fair that the half of the population that is paying taxes pays more if they have any success from their hard work so those who aren't paying taxes can still get all of their freebies. Yup... as long as the part of the population that votes for a living grows at a faster rate than the part of the population that works for a living the problems will continue and will get worse. We clearly haven't learned from the failures in Europe.... |
#11
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New Shop
basilisk writes:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 14:52:15 -0400, John Grossbohlin wrote: Mind you, these people aren't particularly rich, they happened to end up in houses that happened to end up with high assessments as the area grew in desirability post 9/11 and the RE market ran out of control. Location and size killed them... This would be hard on me, I'd be ****ed 6 months before property taxes became due and 6 months after I paid them. One of the nice things about Proposition 13 - it limits increases to 2% year over year from the base value (assessed when the home was purchased or had an addition done) (and the 2% is a maximum increase - mine has been adjusted _down_ twice over the last twenty years during economic slumps). And the tax rate is slightly over $10 per $1000 assessed value when sewerage and various school bonds are summed in (call it 1.1%) The downside is that municipalities and counties have to rely on state funding and sales taxes for revenue. The upside is retirees can plan for their property taxes well in advance without unpleasant surprises. scott |
#12
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New Shop
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 11:17:00 -0500, basilisk wrote:
On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 11:08:10 -0400, John Grossbohlin wrote: "basilisk" wrote in message ... On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:58:24 -0400, Dave wrote: Cost of bare building including slab and wiring will be around 25k, give or take a couple. Lots of things conspire to help keep the cost down, The one thing that keeps me from doing something like this, or an oversize garage/shop is that the additional taxes (which are based on the market assessment vs. the cost) and utilities would be unpleasant. For example, a friend of mine built a house by himself with about half out of pocket. Including the land he had about $150K in it. The tax assessors decided it was worth $450K based on comps... The guy was working for the town at the time and his wife was not employed. Getting hit with $16K tax bills on a $45K salary about killed him... he had to change jobs and eliminate about everything but food from his life. They are virtual prisoners in their home between the taxes, mortgage and utilities... his truck is aging and the RE market is down. Another friend increased the size of his mud room by about 20 sq feet while replacing the rotted out one and got totally creamed on his reassessment. His case is a good example of why people don't get building permits! While I figured out that I could put up a building myself, with similar help from my friends, for around $15-18K it looks like the assessment would be more like $50-60K at a minimum. That would add at least $2K, and likely much more, to the tax bill each year forever... Great guns! I don't recall what the assessed value of my property is but in real dollars of worth to dollars paid in taxes it works out to $2.50 taxes to 1000k in prperty value. Property in AL is usually under assessed not over assessed. $2.50 per million? Alabama has the lowest property taxes in the nation but that's ridiculous! ;-) I assume you mean $2.50 per hundred? Even that sounds high for Alabama. The taxes on my Alabama house are closer to $.50 per hundred ($1500 on $300000). I haven't gotten the assessment for the GA house yet for some reason. ... |
#13
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New Shop
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#14
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New Shop
"basilisk" wrote in message ... On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 14:52:15 -0400, John Grossbohlin wrote: Mind you, these people aren't particularly rich, they happened to end up in houses that happened to end up with high assessments as the area grew in desirability post 9/11 and the RE market ran out of control. Location and size killed them... This would be hard on me, I'd be ****ed 6 months before property taxes became due and 6 months after I paid them. That about describes the situation for the many that "needed" that bigger house... It was fine when everyone had a job and assumed that real estate was a sure bet and they'd be able to sell for a profit at retirement time. I was much more conservative... I couldn't see anything tangible to justify the housing market or the stock market. When I saw near idiots that were marginally employeed getting "liar mortgages" and moving into big houses my thoughts were confirmed that there was no tangible reason for the market levels... I spent my money on tools! John |
#15
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New Shop
On Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:39:55 PM UTC-7, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote in message ... Hey, they didn't build that on their own. They need to pay back the gov't for all the roads and briges and the teachers that help them make it to where they are. It's only fair that the half of the population that is paying taxes pays more if they have any success from their hard work so those who aren't paying taxes can still get all of their freebies. Yup... as long as the part of the population that votes for a living grows at a faster rate than the part of the population that works for a living the problems will continue and will get worse. We clearly haven't learned from the failures in Europe.... We can only hope this November returns us to some adult supervision. |
#16
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New Shop
On 8/2/2012 7:52 AM, basilisk wrote:
Work begins today on my new shop, slab is being formed as I type. 75 tons of #57 was delivered earlier in the week for the base pad. If the weather cooperates I should have a shiny new slab at the end of the day. It will be a combination woodworking/mechanic/metal shop with the meatal working portion sequestered on one end, 36'X72'. My requirements were for something relatively inexpensive, low maintenance and somewhat fire proof- slab on grade, cinderblock walls, steel trusses on 12' centers and galvalume roof, fits the bill. Once the blocks are laid all the work will be mine from that point forward. I'm building out of pocket and the work will have to stop for a couple of months after blocks are laid, mostly due to the fact that the college my eldest daughter goes to suddenly decided that they would no longer accept tuition payments by the quarter, only in full and upfront, a large expense I was not expecting. Pictures when there is something to see. basilisk you gonna pex up the floor for radiant heat? Well worth it! -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#17
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New Shop
Steve Barker wrote in
: On 8/2/2012 7:52 AM, basilisk wrote: Work begins today on my new shop, slab is being formed as I type. 75 tons of #57 was delivered earlier in the week for the base pad. If the weather cooperates I should have a shiny new slab at the end of the day. It will be a combination woodworking/mechanic/metal shop with the meatal working portion sequestered on one end, 36'X72'. My requirements were for something relatively inexpensive, low maintenance and somewhat fire proof- slab on grade, cinderblock walls, steel trusses on 12' centers and galvalume roof, fits the bill. Once the blocks are laid all the work will be mine from that point forward. I'm building out of pocket and the work will have to stop for a couple of months after blocks are laid, mostly due to the fact that the college my eldest daughter goes to suddenly decided that they would no longer accept tuition payments by the quarter, only in full and upfront, a large expense I was not expecting. Pictures when there is something to see. basilisk you gonna pex up the floor for radiant heat? Well worth it! I'll second that! I love the infloor heat in the garshop. It's especially nice if you need to open the big door for some reason. The temperature drops some, but recovers quickly. Do make sure you install air conditioning. A building that size is just too big to be unlivable for 4 months of the year. (If you're in AL, that might be 6.) I don't have AC in the garshop, and haven't been able to do a serious woodworking project in almost 3 months. Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit. |
#18
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New Shop
On 04 Aug 2012 11:08:46 GMT, Puckdropper wrote:
Steve Barker wrote in : On 8/2/2012 7:52 AM, basilisk wrote: Work begins today on my new shop, slab is being formed as I type. 75 tons of #57 was delivered earlier in the week for the base pad. If the weather cooperates I should have a shiny new slab at the end of the day. It will be a combination woodworking/mechanic/metal shop with the meatal working portion sequestered on one end, 36'X72'. My requirements were for something relatively inexpensive, low maintenance and somewhat fire proof- slab on grade, cinderblock walls, steel trusses on 12' centers and galvalume roof, fits the bill. Once the blocks are laid all the work will be mine from that point forward. I'm building out of pocket and the work will have to stop for a couple of months after blocks are laid, mostly due to the fact that the college my eldest daughter goes to suddenly decided that they would no longer accept tuition payments by the quarter, only in full and upfront, a large expense I was not expecting. Pictures when there is something to see. basilisk you gonna pex up the floor for radiant heat? Well worth it! I'll second that! I love the infloor heat in the garshop. It's especially nice if you need to open the big door for some reason. The temperature drops some, but recovers quickly. Do make sure you install air conditioning. A building that size is just too big to be unlivable for 4 months of the year. (If you're in AL, that might be 6.) I don't have AC in the garshop, and haven't been able to do a serious woodworking project in almost 3 months. Puckdropper Wood heat, cheap and readily available when needed, some years we won't have any days when it doesn't warm up to freezing, when working (unless gluing) anything over 45f is fine with me. Will have gable fans to reduced inside temp to ambient, AC would be nice but that's not going to happen, too expensive to operate in a block building. It's all what you are used to anyway, I was thiry five before I ever lived or worked in air conditioning, and still spend a great deal of time outside at work and home. Al heat/humidity + lack of any sort of noticable wind speed, can be brutal to the unsuspecting, on the other hand I doubt I would survive a winter in Canada. basilisk |
#19
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New Shop
On 04 Aug 2012 11:08:46 GMT, Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:
Steve Barker wrote in m: On 8/2/2012 7:52 AM, basilisk wrote: Work begins today on my new shop, slab is being formed as I type. 75 tons of #57 was delivered earlier in the week for the base pad. If the weather cooperates I should have a shiny new slab at the end of the day. It will be a combination woodworking/mechanic/metal shop with the meatal working portion sequestered on one end, 36'X72'. My requirements were for something relatively inexpensive, low maintenance and somewhat fire proof- slab on grade, cinderblock walls, steel trusses on 12' centers and galvalume roof, fits the bill. Once the blocks are laid all the work will be mine from that point forward. I'm building out of pocket and the work will have to stop for a couple of months after blocks are laid, mostly due to the fact that the college my eldest daughter goes to suddenly decided that they would no longer accept tuition payments by the quarter, only in full and upfront, a large expense I was not expecting. Pictures when there is something to see. basilisk you gonna pex up the floor for radiant heat? Well worth it! I'll second that! I love the infloor heat in the garshop. It's especially nice if you need to open the big door for some reason. The temperature drops some, but recovers quickly. Do make sure you install air conditioning. A building that size is just too big to be unlivable for 4 months of the year. (If you're in AL, that might be 6.) I don't have AC in the garshop, and haven't been able to do a serious woodworking project in almost 3 months. Nah, Alabama isn't nearly that bad. Generally mid-June to mid-September it's in the 90s, with mid-July to Sept-1 the worst. Yes, we're in the middle of the worst. :-( The other nine months, it's beautiful. It's a *lot* better than the four good months (July-October) (maybe) we got in Vermont. I've moved my tools (except drill press, compressor, and DC) to our house in Georgia - waiting for the heat to break so I can get a shop set up in the 2000+ sq.ft. basement. ;-) It's uninsulated, though (really dumb), so that's the first order of business for this Winter. I won't need heat but I'm already thinking about AC. There are two 150A service panels in the basement, half full, so I should be all set. ;-) |
#21
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New Shop
On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 12:01:17 -0400, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote:
On 8/4/2012 10:52 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote: Nah, Alabama isn't nearly that bad. Generally mid-June to mid-September it's in the 90s, with mid-July to Sept-1 the worst. Yes, we're in the middle of the worst. :-( The other nine months, it's beautiful. It's a *lot* better than the four good months (July-October) (maybe) we got in Vermont. I've moved my tools (except drill press, compressor, and DC) to our house in Georgia - waiting for the heat to break so I can get a shop set up in the 2000+ sq.ft. basement. ;-) It's uninsulated, though (really dumb), so that's the first order of business for this Winter. I won't need heat but I'm already thinking about AC. There are two 150A service panels in the basement, half full, so I should be all set. ;-) Spray insulation. Too expensive. I did regular insulation in my basement, it doesn't work that well. Some , but could be better in the winter. It's half studded. The only basements here are where the house is built on a hill, so it's a walk-out. I won't bother insulating the concrete. The "frost line" is only 6". Not sure how much of an advantage that is in the south. My ground temp is about 56degrees 2 feet down, year round. So it feels cold in the winter, but comfortable in the summer. In VT the frost line was officially 4' but it wasn't unusual for it to go 6' and several water mains down 8' burst one Winter. If it's a cold Winter after a wet fall with no snow cover the frost line can really get down there. My basement got *cold*. I assume you have a higher ground temp down south. Lots. ;-) Like I said, the official frost line is 6" and I doubt it gets down that far for more than a week (last Winter, not much more than the grass tip froze . |
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