Putting in a 6.44kw solar electric system through solarcity.com on a 20
year lease. I'll let you know next year if it's all that's advertised -
although to this point, they seem abnormally professional.

Details to follow after install and turn-on and a years experience.

PS: I probably don't have 20 years, but who cares...

Doug Winterburn wrote:
Putting in a 6.44kw solar electric system through solarcity.com on a 20
year lease. I'll let you know next year if it's all that's advertised -
although to this point, they seem abnormally professional.

Details to follow after install and turn-on and a years experience.

PS: I probably don't have 20 years, but who cares...

Good on you! Keep us updated if you don't mind.
--
www.ewoodshop.com

On 6/8/2011 9:35 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
Putting in a 6.44kw solar electric system through solarcity.com on a 20
year lease. I'll let you know next year if it's all that's advertised -
although to this point, they seem abnormally professional.

Details to follow after install and turn-on and a years experience.

PS: I probably don't have 20 years, but who cares...


Lets hope you enjoy seeing the limit of the lease come and go.

I am curious. Does that company maintain the equipment through out the
lease, are you liable for repairs as they are needed? Does the lease
guarantee a minimum level of performance?

On 06/09/2011 04:36 AM, Leon wrote:
On 6/8/2011 9:35 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
Putting in a 6.44kw solar electric system through solarcity.com on a 20
year lease. I'll let you know next year if it's all that's advertised -
although to this point, they seem abnormally professional.

Details to follow after install and turn-on and a years experience.

PS: I probably don't have 20 years, but who cares...


Lets hope you enjoy seeing the limit of the lease come and go.

I am curious. Does that company maintain the equipment through out the
lease, are you liable for repairs as they are needed? Does the lease
guarantee a minimum level of performance?

Yes, if you lease rather than purchase, they maintain. I didn't see any
reason to even think about purchase because of that.

And yes, they guarantee a minimum level of performance. They examine
your last years usage and size the system to at least reduce your cost.
If not, they will reimburse the difference at year end by 10 cents/kw.
You can opt to increase the capacity beyond this for a larger lease.

Also, you can buy down the lease. The first option is zero down and a
3.5% annual increase in the lease payment. I chose to put down a couple
of grand to eliminate the annual increase and to buy a whole house
energy checkup ($99 but normally $400 through APS). You can go all the
way and buy down the entire lease so you have zero monthly and they
still maintain for 20 years. In my case, that would have been just shy
of $10,000 - which I think was a bargain compared to about $17,000 for
purchase.

They also provide any necessary repairs and insure the installation
including any possible roof problems. The lease also include removal of
the equipment and restoration of the roof after 20 years.

They also install a special meter that will run backwards if you produce
more than you use. Any excess is "banked" in the grid and credited to
your account.

They monitor to make sure things are OK, so a high speed internet
connection is required. I can also monitor the system from anywhere.

And finally, they will host a "Solar Party" at you residence for friends
and neighbors. If any sign up, you get $400 for each. If this works
out, it'll be party time next year.

I haven't been of a peak/off-peak plan, but will definitely go on the
noon to 7pm on peak program and watch my usage. This particular design
should cover my on peak usage. Current rates here in AZ are about $0.06
off peak and $0.24 on peak through APS.


Honest, I don't work for them :-)

Check their site - I haven't found any negative reviews, but a lot of
positive ones.

On 06/09/2011 04:36 AM, Leon wrote:
On 6/8/2011 9:35 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
Putting in a 6.44kw solar electric system through solarcity.com on a 20
year lease. I'll let you know next year if it's all that's advertised -
although to this point, they seem abnormally professional.

Details to follow after install and turn-on and a years experience.

PS: I probably don't have 20 years, but who cares...


Lets hope you enjoy seeing the limit of the lease come and go.

I am curious. Does that company maintain the equipment through out the
lease, are you liable for repairs as they are needed? Does the lease
guarantee a minimum level of performance?

Yes, if you lease rather than purchase, they maintain. I didn't see any
reason to even think about purchase because of that.

And yes, they guarantee a minimum level of performance. They examine
your last years usage and size the system to at least reduce your cost.
If not, they will reimburse the difference at year end by 10 cents/kw.
You can opt to increase the capacity beyond this for a larger lease.

Also, you can buy down the lease. The first option is zero down and a
3.5% annual increase in the lease payment. I chose to put down a couple
of grand to eliminate the annual increase and to buy a whole house
energy checkup ($99 but normally $400 through APS). You can go all the
way and buy down the entire lease so you have zero monthly and they
still maintain for 20 years. In my case, that would have been just shy
of $10,000 - which I think was a bargain compared to about $17,000 for
purchase.

They also provide any necessary repairs and insure the installation
including any possible roof problems. The lease also include removal of
the equipment and restoration of the roof after 20 years.

They also install a special meter that will run backwards if you produce
more than you use. Any excess is "banked" in the grid and credited to
your account.

They monitor to make sure things are OK, so a high speed internet
connection is required. I can also monitor the system from anywhere.

And finally, they will host a "Solar Party" at you residence for friends
and neighbors. If any sign up, you get $400 for each. If this works
out, it'll be party time next year.

I haven't been of a peak/off-peak plan, but will definitely go on the
noon to 7pm on peak program and watch my usage. This particular design
should cover my on peak usage. Current rates here in AZ are about $0.06
off peak and $0.24 on peak through APS.


Honest, I don't work for them :-)

Check their site - I haven't found any negative reviews, but a lot of
positive ones.

Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 06/09/2011 04:36 AM, Leon wrote:
On 6/8/2011 9:35 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
Putting in a 6.44kw solar electric system through solarcity.com on
a 20 year lease. I'll let you know next year if it's all that's
advertised - although to this point, they seem abnormally
professional. Details to follow after install and turn-on and a years
experience.

PS: I probably don't have 20 years, but who cares...


Lets hope you enjoy seeing the limit of the lease come and go.

I am curious. Does that company maintain the equipment through out
the lease, are you liable for repairs as they are needed? Does the
lease guarantee a minimum level of performance?

Yes, if you lease rather than purchase, they maintain. I didn't see
any reason to even think about purchase because of that.

And yes, they guarantee a minimum level of performance. They examine
your last years usage and size the system to at least reduce your
cost. If not, they will reimburse the difference at year end by 10
cents/kw. You can opt to increase the capacity beyond this for a
larger lease.
Also, you can buy down the lease. The first option is zero down and a
3.5% annual increase in the lease payment. I chose to put down a
couple of grand to eliminate the annual increase and to buy a whole
house energy checkup ($99 but normally $400 through APS). You can go
all the way and buy down the entire lease so you have zero monthly
and they still maintain for 20 years. In my case, that would have
been just shy of $10,000 - which I think was a bargain compared to
about $17,000 for purchase.

They also provide any necessary repairs and insure the installation
including any possible roof problems. The lease also include removal
of the equipment and restoration of the roof after 20 years.

They also install a special meter that will run backwards if you
produce more than you use. Any excess is "banked" in the grid and
credited to your account.

They monitor to make sure things are OK, so a high speed internet
connection is required. I can also monitor the system from anywhere.

And finally, they will host a "Solar Party" at you residence for
friends and neighbors. If any sign up, you get $400 for each. If
this works out, it'll be party time next year.

I haven't been of a peak/off-peak plan, but will definitely go on the
noon to 7pm on peak program and watch my usage. This particular design
should cover my on peak usage. Current rates here in AZ are
about $0.06 off peak and $0.24 on peak through APS.


Honest, I don't work for them :-)

Check their site - I haven't found any negative reviews, but a lot of
positive ones.

i have a 7.7kw system, installed 5/10 in the same area. you should still use
your power during off-peak, as they pay you more for the onpeak generated
power. i'm on the 9am-9pm peak, and last year i had a surplus that they
credited me on the 1/11 bill. the first year savings was ~$1500, and i
generated about 14.5mwh. peak generation is april/may, lowest is dec/jan.

if you can, get them to install it on frames that can vary the tilt of the
panels. that will get you more generation during winter months if you can
tilt them more, and summer you tilt them less.

you'll want to wash the panels once/month for peak generation.

i have my system computer monitored, so have full graphs. if you have any
questions, feel free to ask.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

On Jun 9, 7:51*am, "chaniarts" wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 06/09/2011 04:36 AM, Leon wrote:
On 6/8/2011 9:35 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
Putting in a 6.44kw solar electric system through solarcity.com on
a 20 year lease. I'll let you know next year if it's all that's
advertised - although to this point, they seem abnormally
professional. Details to follow after install and turn-on and a years
experience.

PS: I probably don't have 20 years, but who cares...

Lets hope you enjoy seeing the limit of the lease come and go.

I am curious. Does that company maintain the equipment through out
the lease, are you liable for repairs as they are needed? Does the
lease guarantee a minimum level of performance?

Yes, if you lease rather than purchase, they maintain. *I didn't see
any reason to even think about purchase because of that.

And yes, they guarantee a minimum level of performance. *They examine
your last years usage and size the system to at least reduce your
*cost. If not, they will reimburse the difference at year end by 10
*cents/kw. You can opt to increase the capacity beyond this for a
larger lease.
Also, you can buy down the lease. *The first option is zero down and a
3.5% annual increase in the lease payment. *I chose to put down a
couple of grand to eliminate the annual increase and to buy a whole
house energy checkup ($99 but normally $400 through APS). *You can go
all the way and buy down the entire lease so you have zero monthly
and they still maintain for 20 years. *In my case, that would have
been just shy of $10,000 - which I think was a bargain compared to
about $17,000 for purchase.

They also provide any necessary repairs and insure the installation
including any possible roof problems. *The lease also include removal
of the equipment and restoration of the roof after 20 years.

They also install a special meter that will run backwards if you
produce more than you use. *Any excess is "banked" in the grid and
credited to your account.

They monitor to make sure things are OK, so a high speed internet
connection is required. *I can also monitor the system from anywhere.

And finally, they will host a "Solar Party" at you residence for
friends and neighbors. *If any sign up, you get $400 for each. *If
this works out, it'll be party time next year.

I haven't been of a peak/off-peak plan, but will definitely go on the
noon to 7pm on peak program and watch my usage. This particular design
should cover my on peak usage. *Current rates here in AZ are
about $0.06 off peak and $0.24 on peak through APS.

Honest, I don't work for them :-)

Check their site - I haven't found any negative reviews, but a lot of
positive ones.

i have a 7.7kw system, installed 5/10 in the same area. you should still use
your power during off-peak, as they pay you more for the onpeak generated
power. i'm on the 9am-9pm peak, and last year i had a surplus that they
credited me on the 1/11 bill. the first year savings was ~$1500, and i
generated about 14.5mwh. peak generation is april/may, lowest is dec/jan.

if you can, get them to install it on frames that can vary the tilt of the
panels. that will get you more generation during winter months if you can
tilt them more, and summer you tilt them less.

you'll want to wash the panels once/month for peak generation.

i have my system computer monitored, so have full graphs. if you have any
questions, feel free to ask.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

Are you all electric or do you also have NG. I have a gas furnace and
water heater as well as the BBQ. House is 1850 sq ft. APS on-peak is
noon to 7pm M-F.

BTW, anyone having problems with astraweb not showing posts? I see
your reply on google groups, but not on my astraweb account where I
originally posted.

Doug wrote:
On Jun 9, 7:51 am, "chaniarts" wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 06/09/2011 04:36 AM, Leon wrote:
On 6/8/2011 9:35 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
Putting in a 6.44kw solar electric system through solarcity.com on
a 20 year lease. I'll let you know next year if it's all that's
advertised - although to this point, they seem abnormally
professional. Details to follow after install and turn-on and a
years experience.

PS: I probably don't have 20 years, but who cares...

Lets hope you enjoy seeing the limit of the lease come and go.

I am curious. Does that company maintain the equipment through out
the lease, are you liable for repairs as they are needed? Does the
lease guarantee a minimum level of performance?

Yes, if you lease rather than purchase, they maintain. I didn't see
any reason to even think about purchase because of that.

And yes, they guarantee a minimum level of performance. They examine
your last years usage and size the system to at least reduce your
cost. If not, they will reimburse the difference at year end by 10
cents/kw. You can opt to increase the capacity beyond this for a
larger lease.
Also, you can buy down the lease. The first option is zero down and
a
3.5% annual increase in the lease payment. I chose to put down a
couple of grand to eliminate the annual increase and to buy a whole
house energy checkup ($99 but normally $400 through APS). You can go
all the way and buy down the entire lease so you have zero monthly
and they still maintain for 20 years. In my case, that would have
been just shy of $10,000 - which I think was a bargain compared to
about $17,000 for purchase.

They also provide any necessary repairs and insure the installation
including any possible roof problems. The lease also include removal
of the equipment and restoration of the roof after 20 years.

They also install a special meter that will run backwards if you
produce more than you use. Any excess is "banked" in the grid and
credited to your account.

They monitor to make sure things are OK, so a high speed internet
connection is required. I can also monitor the system from anywhere.

And finally, they will host a "Solar Party" at you residence for
friends and neighbors. If any sign up, you get $400 for each. If
this works out, it'll be party time next year.

I haven't been of a peak/off-peak plan, but will definitely go on
the noon to 7pm on peak program and watch my usage. This particular
design should cover my on peak usage. Current rates here in AZ are
about $0.06 off peak and $0.24 on peak through APS.

Honest, I don't work for them :-)

Check their site - I haven't found any negative reviews, but a lot
of positive ones.

i have a 7.7kw system, installed 5/10 in the same area. you should
still use your power during off-peak, as they pay you more for the
onpeak generated power. i'm on the 9am-9pm peak, and last year i had
a surplus that they credited me on the 1/11 bill. the first year
savings was ~$1500, and i generated about 14.5mwh. peak generation
is april/may, lowest is dec/jan.

if you can, get them to install it on frames that can vary the tilt
of the panels. that will get you more generation during winter
months if you can tilt them more, and summer you tilt them less.

you'll want to wash the panels once/month for peak generation.

i have my system computer monitored, so have full graphs. if you
have any questions, feel free to ask.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

Are you all electric or do you also have NG. I have a gas furnace and
water heater as well as the BBQ. House is 1850 sq ft. APS on-peak is
noon to 7pm M-F.

BTW, anyone having problems with astraweb not showing posts? I see
your reply on google groups, but not on my astraweb account where I
originally posted.

no NG in my area. i have a buried 500 gallon propane tank for hot water,
heating, drier, fireplaces. house is 2700sqft. aps doesn't offer the 9am-9pm
M-F peak rate anymore, but in comparing with another solar house on a
noon-7pm, i have much larger savings. depends upon how strictly you can
control your on-peak demand. my wife retired recently, so is home most days,
so the a/c bill went up. for some reason she doesn't like it when the
setback thermostat kicks in and raises the temps into the 80s during the
summer days.

i run an 8kw kiln off peak most times, so have heavy demand loads at times.

This is VERY cool.

So much variability in days/hours of sunshine, from place to place,
availability (or lack thereof) of tax incentives/subsidies, and the
cost of the energy that you buy ... that ... where I've lived ... I
couldn't make the payback pencil (usually about seven years after the
predicted end-of-life of the equipment).

While I'll pay SOME incremental costs for SOME things for SOME
reasons ... I just couldn't get good with the PV setup for our house.

So .... whatever pieces of the calculus added up to make it worth YOUR
while ... I just think that's great, and -- like others -- will look
forward to keeping current with your progress updates !

Doug wrote in news:9c94e515-2f08-4505-8237-
:

BTW, anyone having problems with astraweb not showing posts? I see
your reply on google groups, but not on my astraweb account where I
originally posted.

I had problems with the rec.w on astraweb for a few days. I unsibscribed
and resubscribed. Seems to have done away with the problems, but time will
tell. MY XNews would say in the summary so many unread posts in this NG,
and then there were none when I opened the newsgroup. Seemed to be limited
to rec.woodworking.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Jun 8, 10:35*pm, Doug Winterburn wrote:
Putting in a 6.44kw solar electric system through solarcity.com on a 20
year lease. *I'll let you know next year if it's all that's advertised -
although to this point, they seem abnormally professional.

Details to follow after install and turn-on and a years experience.

PS: I probably don't have 20 years, but who cares...

Ohhhh, this is NOT about going 'GREEN' as in Festool.....

On 06/09/2011 11:06 AM, Neil Brooks wrote:
This is VERY cool.

So much variability in days/hours of sunshine, from place to place,
availability (or lack thereof) of tax incentives/subsidies, and the
cost of the energy that you buy ... that ... where I've lived ... I
couldn't make the payback pencil (usually about seven years after the
predicted end-of-life of the equipment).

While I'll pay SOME incremental costs for SOME things for SOME
reasons ... I just couldn't get good with the PV setup for our house.

So .... whatever pieces of the calculus added up to make it worth YOUR
while ... I just think that's great, and -- like others -- will look
forward to keeping current with your progress updates !

The main reason I signed up for this was economic, and secondarily for
the feel good factor. If it doesn't work out, the feel good factor will
evaporate.

I suspect solar power for residences has now reached the break even
point, particularly in the desert southwest. If I felt it wasn' at
least a break even proposition, I would have opted out.

Unfortunately, this may not make sense for the more northern/rainy
climes. Also, if there appears any reasonable alternative to
transportation fuel, I'll give that a try. Ain't here yet though,
regardless of Lew's hopes and wishes. I can only afford one run around
vehicle, and electric won't even get me to see my grandkids 50 miles
away - one way, and I can't afford the extension cord. Also, electric
(batteries) at this point should make anyone loose their feel good
factor in an instant.

On 6/9/2011 8:42 AM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 06/09/2011 04:36 AM, Leon wrote:
On 6/8/2011 9:35 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
Putting in a 6.44kw solar electric system through solarcity.com on a 20
year lease. I'll let you know next year if it's all that's advertised -
although to this point, they seem abnormally professional.

Details to follow after install and turn-on and a years experience.

PS: I probably don't have 20 years, but who cares...


Lets hope you enjoy seeing the limit of the lease come and go.

I am curious. Does that company maintain the equipment through out the
lease, are you liable for repairs as they are needed? Does the lease
guarantee a minimum level of performance?

Yes, if you lease rather than purchase, they maintain. I didn't see any
reason to even think about purchase because of that.

And yes, they guarantee a minimum level of performance. They examine
your last years usage and size the system to at least reduce your cost.
If not, they will reimburse the difference at year end by 10 cents/kw.
You can opt to increase the capacity beyond this for a larger lease.

Also, you can buy down the lease. The first option is zero down and a
3.5% annual increase in the lease payment. I chose to put down a couple
of grand to eliminate the annual increase and to buy a whole house
energy checkup ($99 but normally $400 through APS). You can go all the
way and buy down the entire lease so you have zero monthly and they
still maintain for 20 years. In my case, that would have been just shy
of $10,000 - which I think was a bargain compared to about $17,000 for
purchase.

They also provide any necessary repairs and insure the installation
including any possible roof problems. The lease also include removal of
the equipment and restoration of the roof after 20 years.

They also install a special meter that will run backwards if you produce
more than you use. Any excess is "banked" in the grid and credited to
your account.

They monitor to make sure things are OK, so a high speed internet
connection is required. I can also monitor the system from anywhere.

And finally, they will host a "Solar Party" at you residence for friends
and neighbors. If any sign up, you get $400 for each. If this works out,
it'll be party time next year.

I haven't been of a peak/off-peak plan, but will definitely go on the
noon to 7pm on peak program and watch my usage. This particular design
should cover my on peak usage. Current rates here in AZ are about $0.06
off peak and $0.24 on peak through APS.


Honest, I don't work for them :-)

Check their site - I haven't found any negative reviews, but a lot of
positive ones.

Thank you for the run down Doug. Sounds like an interesting investment.

On Thu, 09 Jun 2011 06:42:49 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

On 06/09/2011 04:36 AM, Leon wrote:
On 6/8/2011 9:35 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
Putting in a 6.44kw solar electric system through solarcity.com on a 20
year lease. I'll let you know next year if it's all that's advertised -
although to this point, they seem abnormally professional.

Details to follow after install and turn-on and a years experience.

PS: I probably don't have 20 years, but who cares...


Lets hope you enjoy seeing the limit of the lease come and go.

I am curious. Does that company maintain the equipment through out the
lease, are you liable for repairs as they are needed? Does the lease
guarantee a minimum level of performance?

Yes, if you lease rather than purchase, they maintain. I didn't see any
reason to even think about purchase because of that.

Grok that. How does it affect the price? Ideally, there will be zero
maintenance, or do they come out and wax the panels on occasion? Got
tree droppings on your roof?


And yes, they guarantee a minimum level of performance. They examine
your last years usage and size the system to at least reduce your cost.
If not, they will reimburse the difference at year end by 10 cents/kw.
You can opt to increase the capacity beyond this for a larger lease.

Also, you can buy down the lease. The first option is zero down and a
3.5% annual increase in the lease payment. I chose to put down a couple
of grand to eliminate the annual increase and to buy a whole house
energy checkup ($99 but normally $400 through APS). You can go all the
way and buy down the entire lease so you have zero monthly and they
still maintain for 20 years. In my case, that would have been just shy
of $10,000 - which I think was a bargain compared to about $17,000 for
purchase.

That's a great savings. Does it still qualify you for a tax writeoff?


They also provide any necessary repairs and insure the installation
including any possible roof problems. The lease also include removal of
the equipment and restoration of the roof after 20 years.

They also install a special meter that will run backwards if you produce
more than you use. Any excess is "banked" in the grid and credited to
your account.

They monitor to make sure things are OK, so a high speed internet
connection is required. I can also monitor the system from anywhere.

And finally, they will host a "Solar Party" at you residence for friends
and neighbors. If any sign up, you get $400 for each. If this works
out, it'll be party time next year.

g


I haven't been of a peak/off-peak plan, but will definitely go on the
noon to 7pm on peak program and watch my usage. This particular design
should cover my on peak usage. Current rates here in AZ are about $0.06
off peak and $0.24 on peak through APS.

We're about 6 cents/kwh. Dunno about off/on peak prices.


Honest, I don't work for them :-)

Check their site - I haven't found any negative reviews, but a lot of
positive ones.

I used their calculator and could save $60/yr! I'm only paying $35-40
on a normal month for electricity. (I took Earth Day to heart back in
1971.)

--
Never underestimate the innate animosity of inanimate objects.
--anon

Also, you can buy down the lease. The first option is zero down and a
3.5% annual increase in the lease payment. I chose to put down a couple
of grand to eliminate the annual increase and to buy a whole house
energy checkup ($99 but normally $400 through APS). You can go all the
way and buy down the entire lease so you have zero monthly and they
still maintain for 20 years. In my case, that would have been just shy
of $10,000 - which I think was a bargain compared to about $17,000 for
purchase.

That's a great savings. Does it still qualify you for a tax writeoff?

They get the tax write off as well as the credits from the powers that
be for (my) share of their total green power generation. If the power
supplier doesn't do their share of green, they get fined/taxed or
whatever. When your supplier advertises some percentage of green power
generation, that includes your part of green-ness.

On 6/9/2011 10:10 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

SFWIW, Los Angeles has just completed converting the public bus fleet
from diesel to N/G.

All the while screaming, ranting and throwing hissy fits against
drilling, and pipelines ruining the environment.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote in news:HP-dnUY3nbrYn2
:

On 6/9/2011 10:10 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

SFWIW, Los Angeles has just completed converting the public bus fleet
from diesel to N/G.

All the while screaming, ranting and throwing hissy fits against
drilling, and pipelines ruining the environment.

But, Karl, there isn't anything contradictory about that, IMNSHO. Natural
gas is a good, albeit fossil, fuel - clean, easily gotten, easily
transportable. Just like nuclear has some problems that technology and
human engineering needs to take care off (pun), drilling and transporting
NG needs to be done responsibly.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 06:38:40 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 6/9/2011 10:10 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

SFWIW, Los Angeles has just completed converting the public bus fleet
from diesel to N/G.

All the while screaming, ranting and throwing hissy fits against
drilling, and pipelines ruining the environment.

They must not have read this:
http://waste360.com/mag/waste_trucks_fueling_diesel

And California got into the super tight spot of natural gas power
plants just AFTER it went through a shortage of natural gas via the
pipeline the year before. I was astounded to read that as I was
moving out of the state.

But the new sulfur-free diesel isn't without problems. They changed
from overt, visible, large particulate release to fine, lung-damaging
particulates.

And, as with all alternative fuels, it's far less efficient at 60%.
They now spend more miles driving back to the fueling station, too.

As I've said before, I hate the ecoterrorists!

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from the
effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
--Herbert Spencer