I've ordered Silicon Carbide paper to 2000 grit
and have a flat slab of granite.

I have some left-over questions concerning "Scary Sharp".
Is using a leather "strop" an important part of the
"scary sharp" sharpening technique? Will the inside
of old wide leather belt (resting on the granite) work
for this? Any other compound suggested/required?
I can "roughen-up" the leather if that may help.

Thank you,
Bill

On 2/11/2010 3:07 PM, Bill wrote:
I've ordered Silicon Carbide paper to 2000 grit
and have a flat slab of granite.

I have some left-over questions concerning "Scary Sharp".
Is using a leather "strop" an important part of the
"scary sharp" sharpening technique? Will the inside
of old wide leather belt (resting on the granite) work
for this? Any other compound suggested/required?
I can "roughen-up" the leather if that may help.

Thank you,
Bill

I don't use the "scary sharp" (sandpaper) method (I use a Makita water grinder
with 1000 grit stone for shaping, and a Norton 1000/4000 water stone for
honing), but I definitely get my tools FRIGHTENLY sharp and a leather stop is a
must-have in the process. Yes, the back side of an old leather belt would work
great, and you are correct in thinking a polishing compound should be used in
conjunction with the stop; I suggest this:

http://www.woodcarvers.com/yellowstone.htm

In fact, once you get your tools initially sharp, periodically re-polishing
them on the strop is generally all that's needed unless you damage the cutting
edge.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 2/11/2010 4:03 PM, Steve Turner wrote:
I don't use the "scary sharp" (sandpaper) method (I use a Makita water
grinder with 1000 grit stone for shaping, and a Norton 1000/4000 water
stone for honing), but I definitely get my tools FRIGHTENLY sharp

(I knew "frightenly" didn't look right; that should have been FRIGHTENINGLY)

Also, I forgot to mention that when I use the Norton water stone (I rarely use
the 1000 side) it's all done by hand with no jigs. I can't count the number of
fancy sharpening jigs I've used over the years, but once you get the knack of
honing by hand you don't need any of 'em. I also have a couple of diamond
stones I use for various things, but not really to sharpen my chisels or plane
blades (card scrapers, mostly); I mention them here because they are what I use
to re-flatten my water stones, and they work great for that.

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:07:04 -0500, Bill
wrote:

I've ordered Silicon Carbide paper to 2000 grit
and have a flat slab of granite.

I have some left-over questions concerning "Scary Sharp".
Is using a leather "strop" an important part of the
"scary sharp" sharpening technique? Will the inside
of old wide leather belt (resting on the granite) work
for this? Any other compound suggested/required?
I can "roughen-up" the leather if that may help.

Thank you,
Bill


I use a wide leather belt (once used in a bowling alley to lift
bowling balls up onto a ramp). Stropping will produce a razor-sharp
edge.

On 2/11/10 4:16 PM, Phisherman wrote:
I use a wide leather belt (once used in a bowling alley to lift
bowling balls up onto a ramp). Stropping will produce a razor-sharp
edge.


Doesn't stropping simply remove the wire edge?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:11:09 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:
On 2/11/10 4:16 PM, Phisherman wrote:
I use a wide leather belt (once used in a bowling alley to lift
bowling balls up onto a ramp). Stropping will produce a razor-sharp
edge.


Doesn't stropping simply remove the wire edge?


No, it polishes.

Steven

On 2/11/2010 6:37 PM, Steven Wayne wrote:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:11:09 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:
On 2/11/10 4:16 PM, Phisherman wrote:
I use a wide leather belt (once used in a bowling alley to lift
bowling balls up onto a ramp). Stropping will produce a razor-sharp
edge.


Doesn't stropping simply remove the wire edge?


No, it polishes.

Steven

And it makes the blade sharp as hell. There's nothing quite so beautiful as
getting a mortise and tenon joint to fit perfectly by shaving just the right
amount of end grain off the shoulder with a freshly honed and stropped chisel.
Cuts like a hot knife through butta.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
On 2/11/10 4:16 PM, Phisherman wrote:
I use a wide leather belt (once used in a bowling alley to lift
bowling balls up onto a ramp). Stropping will produce a razor-sharp
edge.


Doesn't stropping simply remove the wire edge?




No.

Think straight razor and the barber strop.
And then a sharp shave...

Martin

Steve Turner wrote:
On 2/11/2010 6:37 PM, Steven Wayne wrote:
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:11:09 -0600, -MIKE-
wrote:
On 2/11/10 4:16 PM, Phisherman wrote:
I use a wide leather belt (once used in a bowling alley to lift
bowling balls up onto a ramp). Stropping will produce a razor-sharp
edge.


Doesn't stropping simply remove the wire edge?


No, it polishes.

Steven

And it makes the blade sharp as hell. There's nothing quite so
beautiful as getting a mortise and tenon joint to fit perfectly by
shaving just the right amount of end grain off the shoulder with a
freshly honed and stropped chisel. Cuts like a hot knife through butta.

.... *Yes, the back side of an old leather belt would work great, and you are correct in thinking a polishing compound should be used in conjunction with the stop; I suggest this:

http://www.woodcarvers.com/yellowstone.htm

Yellowstone was made and sold by the late Herb Dunkle. He lived for a
long time in Great Fall, VA, and made and sold some of the best wood
carving knives ever. Apparently his Yellowstone compound was being
imitated, so he changed the color to peach.

I hone with a leather strip, suede side up, glued onto a board that's
been coated with Yellowstone powder. I scrape the powder onto the
strop with a short piece of a bandsaw blade. Works like a charm.

If the blade is well honed frequently, you rarely have to sharpen it
with a stone or sandpaper.

Joel

"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...


And it makes the blade sharp as hell. There's nothing quite so beautiful
as getting a mortise and tenon joint to fit perfectly by shaving just the
right amount of end grain off the shoulder with a freshly honed and
stropped chisel. Cuts like a hot knife through butta.


Ok, this thread has intrigued me, since hair cutting sharp isn't sharp
enough for me. I have to admit to something of a quest for even sharper on
the things I sharpen. So tell me - how do you guys strop a chisel?

--

-Mike-

-MIKE- wrote:
On 2/11/10 4:16 PM, Phisherman wrote:
I use a wide leather belt (once used in a bowling alley to lift
bowling balls up onto a ramp). Stropping will produce a razor-sharp
edge.


Doesn't stropping simply remove the wire edge?

Yes. And shape the edge.

Steel is hard, leather is soft and isn't going to do diddly squat to remove
steel unless the strop has been charged with an abrasive paste, of which
there are numerous. Personally, I charge the canvas strop, leave the
leather pristine. I say that after having used straight razors for most of
my 76 years - those after puberty at least. These folks agree with me...

http://www.eknifework.com/knifecente...instrazor.html

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On 02/12/2010 06:23 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
"Steve wrote in message
...


And it makes the blade sharp as hell. There's nothing quite so beautiful
as getting a mortise and tenon joint to fit perfectly by shaving just the
right amount of end grain off the shoulder with a freshly honed and
stropped chisel. Cuts like a hot knife through butta.


Ok, this thread has intrigued me, since hair cutting sharp isn't sharp
enough for me. I have to admit to something of a quest for even sharper on
the things I sharpen. So tell me - how do you guys strop a chisel?

Well nothing I do is particularly scientific (certainly not to the degree practiced by the
straight razor aficionados referenced in dadiOH's post) but it works for me and the results
are far better than what you get coming straight off a 4000 grit water stone. Ideally, I'd
also like to progress on to an 8000 grit stone before going to the strop, but I've yet to
fork over the $80 (or more) that Norton wants for those things...

All I did was to get a chunk of good quality cowhide, smooth on one side and grainy on the
other, and glue it smooth side down onto a flat piece of wood. Liberally sprinkle the
aforementioned yellow stone over the surface (using a cheese grater or something similar)
then just start running the freshly-honed blade over the surface. You don't start getting
*really* good results until the compound is thoroughly worked into the leather, to the point
where you get a gooey black paste on the surface, and you want to keep it that way; don't be
shy about adding more compound. Polish both sides of the blade, and by the time you're done
you should be able to see yourself in the mirror-like finish.

--
What percentage of the driving populace do you suppose actually
understands the rules of engagement at a four-way stop?
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

For more than you would think possible to write or describe, for more
than you could possibly want to know, search this site:

http://www.bladeforums.com/

Many there are professional knife/blade makers, and some have been
doing it for years.

Without fail, they will tell you a couple of things. One being that
while certain men's belts are OK for stropping, most are a waste of
time. They recommend a compressed or pressure rolled leather strip
from someone like Hand America.

Last, the guys that make their knives out of the really high
performance steels have found that NO compound is the way to go when
finishing an edge. There is apparently enough silica in a good piece
of tough shoulder hide to cut even the high performance steels these
guys are turning out at 60+ pts. Rockwell.

Some will use fine compounds to start the honing process, but none
finish with any of them. Some can literally shave their faces (arm/
leg hair is the defacto standard for a proper pocket knife edge there)
with their large hunting knives.

A little too much for me. For my smaller pocket knives I can do a
rudimentary strop on a piece of heavy brown cardboard that suits me
just fine.

Refining the edge is much more than just removing the wire edge or
"burr" from sharpening. You can do that with a chef's steel. A honed
and polished edge reduces the friction of the cut as well as creating
a convex edge which provides better fine edge geometry/strength for
use.

That's a fun site. I have been participating there for a while now
and it has really rekindled my age old interest in pocket knives,
especially the old fashioned patterns.

The irony I noticed is just how far behind woodworking tools are in
regards to what materials are being used. Probably the most common
steel used for a very fine forged chisel for a woodworker is 1095, but
more likely it is 1084, etc.

Yet those steels are considered the low end work horses of the blade
and cutting edge community. There are a lot of fine knives being made
from those steels, but it is not considered anything special.

I would love to see a set of high performance stainless chisels made
from some of the Swedish steels - no doubt they would be wonderful.
Unaffordable to be sure, but it would be great to have one super
chisel that was your prized bull.

Robert

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:07:04 -0500, the infamous Bill
scrawled the following:

I've ordered Silicon Carbide paper to 2000 grit
and have a flat slab of granite.

Remember that how you apply the glue will determine the actual
flatness of the surface for your ScarySharp(tm) setup. The only spray
glue I found which wouldn't leave lumps in my NoteSHADES(tm) was 3M's
Super 77. All others hardened and lumped horribly. Super 77 stayed
liquid until the fabric was laid and pressed.


I have some left-over questions concerning "Scary Sharp".
Is using a leather "strop" an important part of the
"scary sharp" sharpening technique?

Not if you go to super-fine stones (4000, 8000.) I found a strop much
more satisfying and a whole lot cheaper. I've used it for resharpening
my razor blades, too. I could make another one for my exactos, but the
1200 diamond paddle works well enough.


Will the inside
of old wide leather belt (resting on the granite) work
for this? Any other compound suggested/required?

Lee Valley green compound is my favorite.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...84&cat=1,43072


I can "roughen-up" the leather if that may help.

I used the -smooth- side of a strip of thick, chrome-tanned leather I
got. I made a strop out of a stick of plywood and the leather, glued
together. The leather is about 1-1/2" x 12".
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,43072&p=32999

--
In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are
needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And
they must have a sense of success in it.
-- John Ruskin, Pre-Raphaelitism, 1850

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:11:09 -0600, the infamous -MIKE-
scrawled the following:

On 2/11/10 4:16 PM, Phisherman wrote:
I use a wide leather belt (once used in a bowling alley to lift
bowling balls up onto a ramp). Stropping will produce a razor-sharp
edge.


Doesn't stropping simply remove the wire edge?

Yes, as a first step, but then it sharpens the area under the wire
edge.

--
In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are
needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And
they must have a sense of success in it.
-- John Ruskin, Pre-Raphaelitism, 1850

On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:23:42 -0500, the infamous "Mike Marlow"
scrawled the following:


"Steve Turner" wrote in message
...


And it makes the blade sharp as hell. There's nothing quite so beautiful
as getting a mortise and tenon joint to fit perfectly by shaving just the
right amount of end grain off the shoulder with a freshly honed and
stropped chisel. Cuts like a hot knife through butta.


Ok, this thread has intrigued me, since hair cutting sharp isn't sharp

at all.


enough for me. I have to admit to something of a quest for even sharper on
the things I sharpen. So tell me - how do you guys strop a chisel?

Only on the pull stroke.

--
In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are
needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And
they must have a sense of success in it.
-- John Ruskin, Pre-Raphaelitism, 1850

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:07:04 -0500, the infamous Bill
scrawled the following:

I've ordered Silicon Carbide paper to 2000 grit
and have a flat slab of granite.

Remember that how you apply the glue will determine the actual
flatness of the surface for your ScarySharp(tm) setup. The only
spray
glue I found which wouldn't leave lumps in my NoteSHADES(tm) was
3M's
Super 77. All others hardened and lumped horribly. Super 77
stayed
liquid until the fabric was laid and pressed.


I have some left-over questions concerning "Scary Sharp".
Is using a leather "strop" an important part of the
"scary sharp" sharpening technique?

Not if you go to super-fine stones (4000, 8000.) I found a
strop much
more satisfying and a whole lot cheaper. I've used it for
resharpening
my razor blades, too. I could make another one for my exactos,
but the
1200 diamond paddle works well enough.


Will the inside
of old wide leather belt (resting on the granite) work
for this? Any other compound suggested/required?

Lee Valley green compound is my favorite.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...84&cat=1,43072


I can "roughen-up" the leather if that may help.

I used the -smooth- side of a strip of thick, chrome-tanned
leather I
got. I made a strop out of a stick of plywood and the leather,
glued
together. The leather is about 1-1/2" x 12".
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,43072&p=32999

Is leather somehow an important component of a strop, or could
wood or even glass be used as the holder for the compound?


--
Nonny

ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:35:14 -0800, "Nonny" wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:07:04 -0500, the infamous Bill
scrawled the following:

I've ordered Silicon Carbide paper to 2000 grit
and have a flat slab of granite.

Remember that how you apply the glue will determine the actual
flatness of the surface for your ScarySharp(tm) setup. The only
spray
glue I found which wouldn't leave lumps in my NoteSHADES(tm) was
3M's
Super 77. All others hardened and lumped horribly. Super 77
stayed
liquid until the fabric was laid and pressed.


I have some left-over questions concerning "Scary Sharp".
Is using a leather "strop" an important part of the
"scary sharp" sharpening technique?

Not if you go to super-fine stones (4000, 8000.) I found a
strop much
more satisfying and a whole lot cheaper. I've used it for
resharpening
my razor blades, too. I could make another one for my exactos,
but the
1200 diamond paddle works well enough.


Will the inside
of old wide leather belt (resting on the granite) work
for this? Any other compound suggested/required?

Lee Valley green compound is my favorite.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...84&cat=1,43072


I can "roughen-up" the leather if that may help.

I used the -smooth- side of a strip of thick, chrome-tanned
leather I
got. I made a strop out of a stick of plywood and the leather,
glued
together. The leather is about 1-1/2" x 12".
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,43072&p=32999

Is leather somehow an important component of a strop, or could
wood or even glass be used as the holder for the compound?


Compound may help, but leather alone does a fine polishing job. Try
it for yourself.

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:35:14 -0800, the infamous "Nonny"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
I used the -smooth- side of a strip of thick, chrome-tanned
leather I
got. I made a strop out of a stick of plywood and the leather,
glued
together. The leather is about 1-1/2" x 12".
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...,43072&p=32999

Is leather somehow an important component of a strop, or could
wood or even glass be used as the holder for the compound?

I think it's used primarily because it's tough, textured to hold
compound, and has some silica in it in the first place.

On glass, you'd simply push the abrasive around, abrading it nearly as
much as you did the metal.

Semi-soft, open-pored wood could probably be used fairly well. AAMOF,
for curved gouges, wood works extremely well. Cut a curl in the wood
(without removing the chip), rub compound into the gap, and you can
hone both sides of the gouge at once.

I've seen grainy rubber compound holders for gouges, too.

--
It's a great life...once you weaken.
--author James Hogan

On Feb 15, 8:32*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:

I think it's used primarily because it's tough, textured to hold
compound, and has some silica in it in the first place.


I think you are right. That seems to be the consensus.


Semi-soft, open-pored wood could probably be used fairly well. *AAMOF,
for curved gouges, wood works extremely well. Cut a curl in the wood
(without removing the chip), rub compound into the gap, and you can
hone both sides of the gouge at once.

I hadn't thought of that until you posted, but one of the wood carvers
I know and one of the wood turners I know have made their own wheels
out of dense MDF to fit on their Tormek knock off machines.

The turned the wheel round, but a "one fits all" groove in it, and
they charge it with the Tormek stuff and polish away at a slow speed.

The guy that was telling me about it said he got the idea from one of
his carving buddies that has thick pieces of MDF with the shape of the
carving tool (groove, "V", round, etc.) cut into the MDF by the tool
itself. To sharpen, he simply puts a bit of compound into the correct
groove and polishes on the MDF strop.

Some pretty smart guys out there....

Robert

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:49:41 -0800 (PST), the infamous
" scrawled the
following:

On Feb 15, 8:32*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:

I think it's used primarily because it's tough, textured to hold
compound, and has some silica in it in the first place.


I think you are right. That seems to be the consensus.


Semi-soft, open-pored wood could probably be used fairly well. *AAMOF,
for curved gouges, wood works extremely well. Cut a curl in the wood
(without removing the chip), rub compound into the gap, and you can
hone both sides of the gouge at once.

I hadn't thought of that until you posted, but one of the wood carvers
I know and one of the wood turners I know have made their own wheels
out of dense MDF to fit on their Tormek knock off machines.

The turned the wheel round, but a "one fits all" groove in it, and
they charge it with the Tormek stuff and polish away at a slow speed.

The guy that was telling me about it said he got the idea from one of
his carving buddies that has thick pieces of MDF with the shape of the
carving tool (groove, "V", round, etc.) cut into the MDF by the tool
itself. To sharpen, he simply puts a bit of compound into the correct
groove and polishes on the MDF strop.

Here's the static version of that.
http://www.carvingpatterns.com/sharpening-2.htm


Some pretty smart guys out there....

Ayup, and "cheap" begets "innovation", Naily.

--
It's a great life...once you weaken.
--author James Hogan

On Feb 16, 11:02*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:

Ayup, and "cheap" begets "innovation", Naily. *

Gotcha covered on that!

*chuckle*

Robert

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 11:35:14 -0800, "Nonny" wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:07:04 -0500, the infamous Bill
scrawled the following:

I've ordered Silicon Carbide paper to 2000 grit
and have a flat slab of granite.

Remember that how you apply the glue will determine the actual
flatness of the surface for your ScarySharp(tm) setup. The only
spray
glue I found which wouldn't leave lumps in my NoteSHADES(tm) was
3M's
Super 77. All others hardened and lumped horribly. Super 77
stayed
liquid until the fabric was laid and pressed.


I have some left-over questions concerning "Scary Sharp".
Is using a leather "strop" an important part of the
"scary sharp" sharpening technique?
[...snip...]

People use maple or MDF as well as leather. Sometimes with diamond
paste, which is likely more uniform sized than honing compound.

The thing I've learned is you need to keep the material, whatever it
is, very clean, or you can pick up impurities that can scratch the
metal you are honing.