I'm using a very standard old wooden chair for my
desk (it feels good, for some reason), but the dowels
that hold it together have come loose.

I've been gluing wood in various ways and for various
purposes for 20 years, but I cannot seem to get glue
to hold this chair together for more than a few days.

I've tried yellow glue, polyurethane glue, cyanoacrylate
glue, even tried epoxy resin. But those joints just don't
hold, esp. where the seat meets the back.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

s

An antique dealer I used to work for swore by using strips torn from
bandages. She disassembled the chair enough to get to the glue joints,
scraped off the old glue, then wrapped the end with the bandage pieces,
applied plenty of glue. OPnce it was all clamped back together, she used a
sharp knife to cut away the excess bandage material and let it all dry.

Worked for her. She said the key was to get all of the old glue out so the
new glue could bind it all together.
Anne

"sam" wrote in message
...
I'm using a very standard old wooden chair for my
desk (it feels good, for some reason), but the dowels
that hold it together have come loose.

On 2/1/2010 6:53 PM anne watson spake thus:

An antique dealer I used to work for swore by using strips torn from
bandages. She disassembled the chair enough to get to the glue joints,
scraped off the old glue, then wrapped the end with the bandage pieces,
applied plenty of glue. OPnce it was all clamped back together, she used a
sharp knife to cut away the excess bandage material and let it all dry.

Worked for her. She said the key was to get all of the old glue out so the
new glue could bind it all together.

That actually doesn't sound like a bad way to approach it.

The problem with the OP's attempts to reglue the spindles is that you
can't just pour or smear more glue on a bad joint and expect it to hold.
To do it right, you really need to disassemble the joint and clean it,
as you said. Now you're undoubtedly left with a joint with a gap, so you
need to fill the gap.

I actually think the bandage idea, as weird as it sounds, is a lot
better than, say, trying to get sawdust mixed with glue in there, though
even that would be better than nothing.

And please don't let's anyone suggest epoxy, Bondo or such. It should be
possible to fix this with the normal wood adhesives.


"sam" wrote in message
...

I'm using a very standard old wooden chair for my
desk (it feels good, for some reason), but the dowels
that hold it together have come loose.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On Feb 2, 12:48*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 2/1/2010 6:53 PM anne watson spake thus:

An antique dealer I used to work for swore by using strips torn from
bandages. *She disassembled the chair enough to get to the glue joints,
scraped off the old glue, then wrapped the end with the bandage pieces,
applied plenty of glue. *OPnce it was all clamped back together, she used a
sharp knife to cut away the excess bandage material and let it all dry.

Worked for her. *She said the key was to get all of the old glue out so the
new glue could bind it all together.

That actually doesn't sound like a bad way to approach it.

The problem with the OP's attempts to reglue the spindles is that you
can't just pour or smear more glue on a bad joint and expect it to hold.
To do it right, you really need to disassemble the joint and clean it,
as you said. Now you're undoubtedly left with a joint with a gap, so you
need to fill the gap.

I actually think the bandage idea, as weird as it sounds, is a lot
better than, say, trying to get sawdust mixed with glue in there, though
even that would be better than nothing.

And please don't let's anyone suggest epoxy, Bondo or such. It should be
possible to fix this with the normal wood adhesives.



"sam" wrote in message
m...

I'm using a very standard old wooden chair for my
desk (it feels good, for some reason), but the dowels
that hold it together have come loose.

--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

Two ideas:

First, Rockler (and I'm sure it is available elsewhere) sells a
product that allows you to inject a liquid into loose fitting joints
with a syringe. The liquid swells the wood and tightens the joint. I
haven't tried it, but the representative I spoke with said it really
works well.

The second idea is that I came across a product that is basicall small
metal strips that have serrated teeth. These are used to wrap around
the dowel or mortise and reinsert back into the joint. Made by
"Woodmate's" and called "Mr Grip Furniture repair kit"

Hope that helps

As noted, the joints have to be cleaned of the old glue. Replace any
dowels with larger dowels, where applicable.

I use the gauze bandage technique occassionally, as well as paper
towels for that type of filling. Instead of wrapping it around the
dowel, cut the gauze or paper towel into a cross, like the American
Red Cross' symbol, and it stuffs into the dowel hole similar to
loading a cloth wad into a muzzle loader. It folds itself into the
hole. This allows for dry fitting, too, if you need multiple crosses.
In cases where you think the stuffing may be too much and splitting of
the wood is suspect: prior to assembly, tighten a screw clamp (hose
clamp) around the suspect piece, then assemble. On a square member,
where a screw clamp won't make complete contact on all surfaces,
insert wedges into the spaces for more even compression all around.

Additionally, to assure your repair doesn't fail, never remove the
clamps. Is it April 1st, yet?

Sonny

On 2 Feb, 02:28, sam wrote:

I cannot seem to get glue
to hold this chair together for more than a few days.

That's usual for chairs - they see a hard life with lots of racking
stresses on the leg joints.

There are three good approaches:

1. Veritas' "Chair Doctor" glue. This is a watery glue that swells
the existing tenons.
When it works, it works well. However a chair that has been broken for
long will have worn and rounded tenons and you need something that's
gap filling too.

2. Epoxy with a filler. Use good epoxy (West System) and an
appropriate fibre filler, mixed to the consistency of mayonnaise. If
it's really bad, use the epoxy on the tenon first (and stiffened to
peanut butter texture) to get the tenon back to shape, let that cure
and then shape it to fit, before re-gluing with slightly thinner epoxy
(maybe microballoon filler rather than fibres).

3. Antiques use hide glue, nothing else. Sometimes some complicated
joinery too.

Cleaning off old glue first is important if it's thick, or if you're
gap filling.

Don't use foxed wedges in tenons.

Without a big dissasemble and re-build pretty much any liquid solution
won't stand up to the pressures a chair takes. Not sure how precious
this chair is but I would consider long screws. Pre-drill from the
back side and try to drill right down the center of the dowel. Use a
screw that is longer than the dowel. Counter bore the hole so the
screw head is below the surface and you can plug the hole with a
dowel. Find a chart that tells you the drill bit size for a pilot hole
and shaft hole. The screw should really just bite into the second
piece so the first piece has a slightly larger hole. Finally, use
epoxy on the dowels and joint as best possible before screwing.

On Feb 1, 6:28*pm, sam wrote:
I'm using a very standard old wooden chair for my
desk (it feels good, for some reason), but the dowels
that hold it together have come loose.

I've been gluing wood in various ways and for various
purposes for 20 years, but I cannot seem to get glue
to hold this chair together for more than a few days.

I've tried yellow glue, polyurethane glue, cyanoacrylate
glue, even tried epoxy resin. But those joints just don't
hold, esp. where the seat meets the back.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

s

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 05:00:13 -0800, billtvt wrote:

First, Rockler (and I'm sure it is available elsewhere) sells a product
that allows you to inject a liquid into loose fitting joints with a
syringe. The liquid swells the wood and tightens the joint. I haven't
tried it, but the representative I spoke with said it really works well.

I have tried it, and it does. IIRC, its called Chair Doctor.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

In article , says...

On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 05:00:13 -0800, billtvt wrote:

First, Rockler (and I'm sure it is available elsewhere) sells a product
that allows you to inject a liquid into loose fitting joints with a
syringe. The liquid swells the wood and tightens the joint. I haven't
tried it, but the representative I spoke with said it really works well.

I have tried it, and it does. IIRC, its called Chair Doctor.

I'm going by Rockler's today to try this before the other
solutions mentioned here. Thanks everyone!

s

Subject

Until you are willing to take the chair apart and clean out the joints
removing ALL the old glue, NOTHING including epoxy thickened with
micro-balloons is going to solve your problem.

Lew

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 05:00:13 -0800, billtvt wrote:

First, Rockler (and I'm sure it is available elsewhere) sells a
product that allows you to inject a liquid into loose fitting joints
with a syringe. The liquid swells the wood and tightens the joint. I
haven't tried it, but the representative I spoke with said it really
works well.

I have tried it, and it does. IIRC, its called Chair Doctor.

FWIW, a friend of mine had a chair that was getting loose. Chair doctor
fixed it for a while but then it loosened up again. I offered to tear it
down and reglue it for him, but he's pushing 100 and it's a cheap chair and
he'd rather a quick fix--he figures that at his age _something_ is gonna get
him pretty soon--so I put corner plates between each rail and each leg--it's
been two years now and it's still fine.

In article ,
says...

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 02 Feb 2010 05:00:13 -0800, billtvt wrote:

First, Rockler (and I'm sure it is available elsewhere) sells a
product that allows you to inject a liquid into loose fitting joints
with a syringe. The liquid swells the wood and tightens the joint. I
haven't tried it, but the representative I spoke with said it really
works well.

I have tried it, and it does. IIRC, its called Chair Doctor.

FWIW, a friend of mine had a chair that was getting loose. Chair doctor
fixed it for a while but then it loosened up again. I offered to tear it
down and reglue it for him, but he's pushing 100 and it's a cheap chair and
he'd rather a quick fix--he figures that at his age _something_ is gonna get
him pretty soon--so I put corner plates between each rail and each leg--it's
been two years now and it's still fine.

I went to Rocklers and they now sell something called
Tite Chairs. It's made of ethyl cyanoacrylate and it
cost 11 bucks. I wonder why I don't just use superglue.

s

[...snip...]

The second idea is that I came across a product that is basicall small
metal strips that have serrated teeth. These are used to wrap around
the dowel or mortise and reinsert back into the joint. Made by
"Woodmate's" and called "Mr Grip Furniture repair kit"


I've used those. They do help loose joints grip. I don't think they
would work well over the long haul in a chair, however.

Jim Weisgram wrote:
[...snip...]

The second idea is that I came across a product that is basicall
small metal strips that have serrated teeth. These are used to wrap
around the dowel or mortise and reinsert back into the joint. Made by
"Woodmate's" and called "Mr Grip Furniture repair kit"


I've used those. They do help loose joints grip. I don't think they
would work well over the long haul in a chair, however.

FWIW, there's a Bruce Hoadley article on dowel joints in the Fine
Woodworking archive that might be of interest--he explains why they fail and
has some suggestions on what do do about it. The article can be reached
from
http://www.finewoodworking.com/Skill...F.aspx?id=2044,
but you need to have a Fine Woodworking Online subscription to see it--they
have a two week free trial so you don't have to pay anything to get it
unless you've already used up your trial.

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:49:31 -0800, the infamous "Lew Hodgett"
scrawled the following:

Subject

Until you are willing to take the chair apart and clean out the joints
removing ALL the old glue, NOTHING including epoxy thickened with
micro-balloons is going to solve your problem.

Yeah, what he said.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw