CNN: "Toyota's president Akio Toyoda apologized for the gas pedal
problems that have forced the recall of millions of vehicles, Japanese
media reported."

What a difference from the approach other auto manufacturer's have
used when faced with a major problem. Apologize. The norm has been
deny it. deny it. deny it. Then grudgingly fix it while continuing
to deny a real problem.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:11:59 -0800 (PST), RonB
wrote:

CNN: "Toyota's president Akio Toyoda apologized for the gas pedal
problems that have forced the recall of millions of vehicles, Japanese
media reported."

What a difference from the approach other auto manufacturer's have
used when faced with a major problem. Apologize. The norm has been
deny it. deny it. deny it. Then grudgingly fix it while continuing
to deny a real problem.


My first car was a Honda Civic. Honda recalled the fenders because
mud collected up underneath and rusted the fender out from the inside.
They replaced my fenders, no charge. They stood by their product and
when I needed a new car I remembered what happened and my new car was
another Honda. Perhaps American auto-makers do not stand behind
their product like others which explains why Japanese owners are so
loyal to their brand.

On Jan 30, 8:25*am, Phisherman wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:11:59 -0800 (PST), RonB
wrote:

CNN: *"Toyota's president Akio Toyoda apologized for the gas pedal
problems that have forced the recall of millions of vehicles, Japanese
media reported."

What a difference from the approach other auto manufacturer's have
used when faced with a major problem. *Apologize. * The norm has been
deny it. *deny it. deny it. *Then grudgingly fix it while continuing
to deny a real problem.

My first car was a Honda Civic. *Honda recalled the fenders because
mud collected up underneath and rusted the fender out from the inside.
They replaced my fenders, no charge. *They stood by their product and
when I needed a new car I remembered what happened and my new car was
another Honda. * Perhaps American auto-makers do not stand behind
their product like others which explains why Japanese owners are so
loyal to their brand.

Yep. Japan gained their foothold in the American auto industry during
the early to mid 1970's when Detroit started building disposable
cars. During that period we owned a 71 Chevy Vega GT and I needn't
say anything more (Except it was Motor Trend's car of the year -
Yipee!). After a combined 6 months in the shop waiting for parts and
repairs, we traded for a new 74 Cutlass Supreme. In four months we
started seeing rust around the opera windows. GM "fixed" that and it
immediately restarted. The electrical system was a mess. When we got
rid of it three years later the entire car was rusted out. The trunk
latch was held in place with bondo. That is when we traded for a
Volvo which we drove 130K miles and turned it over to our daughter for
a college car and she put 40+K more on it before trade. When Volvo
out priced us (2 cars later) we turned to Hondas, and our current
160,000 mile Toyota. Other than normal maintenance (shocks, brakes,
etc) the Toyota has NEVER BEEN REPAIRED! In fairness, our other
vehicle, a Chevy Duramax has also been very good at 42K miles. Also,
by comparison, we slipped an '86 Blazer in with the Volvos and drove
it for 8-10 years. But it saw three radiators, a steering sector, two
water pumps, etc, etc, etc.

RonB

RonB wrote:
CNN: "Toyota's president Akio Toyoda apologized for the gas pedal
problems that have forced the recall of millions of vehicles, Japanese
media reported."

What a difference from the approach other auto manufacturer's have
used when faced with a major problem. Apologize. The norm has been
deny it. deny it. deny it. Then grudgingly fix it while continuing
to deny a real problem.

Well, I'd say it's not been much different afaict. They started out w/
"no problem" and "driver error" and blaming floor mats for the problem
and have only now come out since it's clear that it's going to be a
major financial hit so they're trying to recover.

That said, the congresscritters trying to make hay w/ hearings, etc.,
are entirely out of line, too...

--

Well, I'd say it's not been much different afaict. *They started out w/
"no problem" and "driver error" and blaming floor mats for the problem
and have only now come out since it's clear that it's going to be a
major financial hit so they're trying to recover.

That said, the congresscritters trying to make hay w/ hearings, etc.,
are entirely out of line, too...

--

Yes, they danced a bit too. But a public apology is not common in
that industry. Attorneys usually won't stand for it. It probably
speaks to the Japanese honor system. But it still outclasses the
approach Ford, Chevy and Audi used. "Nothing really wrong, they made
us fix it."

"dpb" wrote in message
...
RonB wrote:
CNN: "Toyota's president Akio Toyoda apologized for the gas pedal
problems that have forced the recall of millions of vehicles, Japanese
media reported."

What a difference from the approach other auto manufacturer's have
used when faced with a major problem. Apologize. The norm has been
deny it. deny it. deny it. Then grudgingly fix it while continuing
to deny a real problem.

Well, I'd say it's not been much different afaict. They started out w/
"no problem" and "driver error" and blaming floor mats for the problem and
have only now come out since it's clear that it's going to be a major
financial hit so they're trying to recover.

Actually the floor mats wher part of the problem the rest of the problem is
the American company made parts.





That said, the congresscritters trying to make hay w/ hearings, etc., are
entirely out of line, too...

--

"RonB" wrote in message
...
CNN: "Toyota's president Akio Toyoda apologized for the gas pedal
problems that have forced the recall of millions of vehicles, Japanese
media reported."

What a difference from the approach other auto manufacturer's have
used when faced with a major problem. Apologize. The norm has been
deny it. deny it. deny it. Then grudgingly fix it while continuing
to deny a real problem.

Ford in China too has suspended production and sales of their larger
vehicles. Apparently CTI located in Elkhart IN is the maker of the pedals
with the problems. I would not rule out other auto makers in the near
future. Apparently the Pontiac Vibe has the pedal also.

Toyota has been denying it. They had a smaller, quieter recall last
year for a related issue. Supposedly the rugs were catching the gas
petals.

Isn't that president supposed to commit harry carry after a major
embarrassment such as this?

RonB wrote:
CNN: "Toyota's president Akio Toyoda apologized for the gas pedal
problems that have forced the recall of millions of vehicles, Japanese
media reported."

What a difference from the approach other auto manufacturer's have
used when faced with a major problem. Apologize. The norm has been
deny it. deny it. deny it. Then grudgingly fix it while continuing
to deny a real problem.

"dpb" wrote in message
...
RonB wrote:
CNN: "Toyota's president Akio Toyoda apologized for the gas pedal
problems that have forced the recall of millions of vehicles, Japanese
media reported."

What a difference from the approach other auto manufacturer's have
used when faced with a major problem. Apologize. The norm has been
deny it. deny it. deny it. Then grudgingly fix it while continuing
to deny a real problem.

Well, I'd say it's not been much different afaict. They started out w/
"no problem" and "driver error" and blaming floor mats for the problem and
have only now come out since it's clear that it's going to be a major
financial hit so they're trying to recover.

That said, the congresscritters trying to make hay w/ hearings, etc., are
entirely out of line, too...


The first year that the Ford Focus was manufactured there were 156 campaign
notices that the dealers had to deal with. Do you recall the last Toyota
recall? GM had an ongoing repair campaign on most any one of their vehicles
when I worked for an Oldsmobile dealer for 10 years in the lat 70's and
80's. I don't recall Ford ever admitting that their older Mustangs and
Pintos were bombs on wheels and were likely to explode when rear ended. The
later Crown Victoria's had the problem also. Police departments dropped
them like used condo__.

As far as Toyota claiming driver error, I don't recall that being said but
would agree that drive error is what results in a majority of the accidents
caused by a stuck accelerator pedal. If you are driving you should know how
to stop the vehicle, simply turning off the ignition, shifting into neutral,
or pushing in on the clutch should not be that much of a request to stop a
vehicle. And there is the brake pedal.. Tests shown in Car and Driver
indicate that a V6 Camry requires 16 additional feet to stop from 70 mph
under full throttle when braking than with no throttle, about 88 additional
feet when braking from 100 mph. IIRC drivers training instructs the many
ways to stop a vehicle should something like this happen.

I currently have an affected 07 Tundra and I am concerned but not in any way
fearful of driving the vehicle or think that Toyota should be doing anything
different than what they are currently doing to solve the problem. The
problem was brought to my attention by Toyota late last summer.

I think the question should be what is CTI, the American maker of the pedal,
doing to do to help resolve the problem.

"Michael Kenefick" wrote in message
...
Toyota has been denying it. They had a smaller, quieter recall last year
for a related issue. Supposedly the rugs were catching the gas petals.


How have they been denying it???? I was informed by Toyota last year of the
problem as was all of the other owners with affected cars. Do you own an
affected Toyota? Because the recall has not made the news does tham make
Toyota quilty of denying?

All of the auto makers have campaign recalls on going most all of the time,
that is not news.

While we are at it, lets take a moment to honor the king of the
Detroit disposables.

The Chevy Chevette

Yes, the Vega was a contender but they didn't build enough of those to
fill salvage yards like the Chevette. Most of the Pintos burned.

We did a floor-up restoration of a 67 Camaro during the late 80's and
I was frequenting a couple of local salvage yards for pieces. It
dawned on me that there was an enormous number of Chevettes in these
yards. I started looking at a few because the bodies and interiors on
many looked pretty good. I was surprised at the number of them with
odometer readings in the 40-50K range.

I mentioned it to one of the salvage yard guys. "Hell we could run
this place on Chevettes. They are the ultimate throw-away car. You
buy one and it's worn out in 50,000 miles. Then we get it and use it
to keep the other poor *******s going for a few miles. Love 'em!"

Leon wrote:
....

I think the question should be what is CTI, the American maker of the pedal,
doing to do to help resolve the problem.

AFAICT, building to spec on the originals and shipping a redesigned part...

--

"dpb" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
...

I think the question should be what is CTI, the American maker of the
pedal, doing to do to help resolve the problem.

AFAICT, building to spec on the originals and shipping a redesigned
part...


It would seem odd that the the manufacturers that used CTI and are stopping
production would submit defective spec's to CTI to start with. Perhaps QC
was a problem, from what I understand the pedals wore or broke prematurely.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:17:36 -0500, Michael Kenefick
wrote:

Toyota has been denying it. They had a smaller, quieter recall last
year for a related issue. Supposedly the rugs were catching the gas
petals.

Isn't that president supposed to commit harry carry after a major
embarrassment such as this?

RonB wrote:
CNN: "Toyota's president Akio Toyoda apologized for the gas pedal
problems that have forced the recall of millions of vehicles, Japanese
media reported."

What a difference from the approach other auto manufacturer's have
used when faced with a major problem. Apologize. The norm has been
deny it. deny it. deny it. Then grudgingly fix it while continuing
to deny a real problem.


My 2006 Tundra was recalled in 2007. The Toyota dealer notified me
and replaced the front ball joints. And then, sometimes the Toyota
dealer can be a pest, trying me to trade for a newer model. Geez, my
truck is barely broken in at 16,000 miles. Overall, it's a good
solid truck and hope to take it to well-over 100,000 miles. If at the
time I was truck shopping, if I did not cut a good deal, I was ready
to look at Ford 150s where there are more choices and high demand. I
think Ford makes a good truck, certainly better looking than a Tundra.

Leon wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
...

I think the question should be what is CTI, the American maker of the
pedal, doing to do to help resolve the problem.
AFAICT, building to spec on the originals and shipping a redesigned
part...


It would seem odd that the the manufacturers that used CTI and are stopping
production would submit defective spec's to CTI to start with. Perhaps QC
was a problem, from what I understand the pedals wore or broke prematurely.

Why? Things like that happen all the time.

What I've seen indicates they're a wire design, not purely mechanical
and (inferring) the failure is actually electronic. That's from news
reports which are, of course, inherently suspect on anything at all
technical as for getting the details right.

--

On Jan 30, 1:19*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message

...

Leon wrote:
...

I think the question should be what is CTI, the American maker of the
pedal, doing to do to help resolve the problem.

AFAICT, building to spec on the originals and shipping a redesigned
part...

It would seem odd that the the manufacturers that used CTI and are stopping
production *would submit defective spec's to CTI to start with. *Perhaps QC
was a problem, from what I understand the pedals wore or broke prematurely.

I know I'm going to get raspberries from many here, but this IS my
theory......
Toyota has decided to allow GM to regain some of their foothold in the
market. Those guys have been in bed together for quite a long time and
many projects (Tundra, Matrix/Vibe etc...) Industry insiders tell me
that gas pedal issue is nowhere near the catastrophe Toyota has made
it out to be. I think they are helping out their GM buddies. Call me
crazy.

On Jan 30, 2:04*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Jan 30, 1:19*pm, "Leon" wrote:



"dpb" wrote in message

...

Leon wrote:
...

I think the question should be what is CTI, the American maker of the
pedal, doing to do to help resolve the problem.

AFAICT, building to spec on the originals and shipping a redesigned
part...

It would seem odd that the the manufacturers that used CTI and are stopping
production *would submit defective spec's to CTI to start with. *Perhaps QC
was a problem, from what I understand the pedals wore or broke prematurely.

I know I'm going to get raspberries from many here, but this IS my
theory......
Toyota has decided to allow GM to regain some of their foothold in the
market. Those guys have been in bed together for quite a long time and
many projects (Tundra, Matrix/Vibe etc...) Industry insiders tell me
that gas pedal issue is nowhere near the catastrophe Toyota has made
it out to be. I think they are helping out their GM buddies. Call me
crazy.

Let's see. How do you spell a raspberry:

"Ppppppfffffffftttttttt!!!!!

Did I do good? :^)

On Jan 30, 3:18*pm, RonB wrote:
On Jan 30, 2:04*pm, Robatoy wrote:





On Jan 30, 1:19*pm, "Leon" wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message

...

Leon wrote:
...

I think the question should be what is CTI, the American maker of the
pedal, doing to do to help resolve the problem.

AFAICT, building to spec on the originals and shipping a redesigned
part...

It would seem odd that the the manufacturers that used CTI and are stopping
production *would submit defective spec's to CTI to start with. *Perhaps QC
was a problem, from what I understand the pedals wore or broke prematurely.

I know I'm going to get raspberries from many here, but this IS my
theory......
Toyota has decided to allow GM to regain some of their foothold in the
market. Those guys have been in bed together for quite a long time and
many projects (Tundra, Matrix/Vibe etc...) Industry insiders tell me
that gas pedal issue is nowhere near the catastrophe Toyota has made
it out to be. I think they are helping out their GM buddies. Call me
crazy.

Let's see. *How do you spell a raspberry:

"Ppppppfffffffftttttttt!!!!!

Did I do good? * :^)

Not enough spray....LOL

On Jan 30, 3:18*pm, RonB wrote:
On Jan 30, 2:04*pm, Robatoy wrote:





On Jan 30, 1:19*pm, "Leon" wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message

...

Leon wrote:
...

I think the question should be what is CTI, the American maker of the
pedal, doing to do to help resolve the problem.

AFAICT, building to spec on the originals and shipping a redesigned
part...

It would seem odd that the the manufacturers that used CTI and are stopping
production *would submit defective spec's to CTI to start with. *Perhaps QC
was a problem, from what I understand the pedals wore or broke prematurely.

I know I'm going to get raspberries from many here, but this IS my
theory......
Toyota has decided to allow GM to regain some of their foothold in the
market. Those guys have been in bed together for quite a long time and
many projects (Tundra, Matrix/Vibe etc...) Industry insiders tell me
that gas pedal issue is nowhere near the catastrophe Toyota has made
it out to be. I think they are helping out their GM buddies. Call me
crazy.

Let's see. *How do you spell a raspberry:

"Ppppppfffffffftttttttt!!!!!

Did I do good? * :^)

THIS is 'good'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWGn6_EH2gM

On Jan 30, 2:19*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Jan 30, 3:18*pm, RonB wrote:



On Jan 30, 2:04*pm, Robatoy wrote:

On Jan 30, 1:19*pm, "Leon" wrote:

"dpb" wrote in message

...

Leon wrote:
...

I think the question should be what is CTI, the American maker of the
pedal, doing to do to help resolve the problem.

AFAICT, building to spec on the originals and shipping a redesigned
part...

It would seem odd that the the manufacturers that used CTI and are stopping
production *would submit defective spec's to CTI to start with. *Perhaps QC
was a problem, from what I understand the pedals wore or broke prematurely.

I know I'm going to get raspberries from many here, but this IS my
theory......
Toyota has decided to allow GM to regain some of their foothold in the
market. Those guys have been in bed together for quite a long time and
many projects (Tundra, Matrix/Vibe etc...) Industry insiders tell me
that gas pedal issue is nowhere near the catastrophe Toyota has made
it out to be. I think they are helping out their GM buddies. Call me
crazy.

Let's see. *How do you spell a raspberry:

"Ppppppfffffffftttttttt!!!!!

Did I do good? * :^)

Not enough spray....LOL

You are right
""""""""Ppppppfffffffftttttttt!!!!! """""""""

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...


I know I'm going to get raspberries from many here, but this IS my
theory......
Toyota has decided to allow GM to regain some of their foothold in the
market. Those guys have been in bed together for quite a long time and
many projects (Tundra, Matrix/Vibe etc...) Industry insiders tell me
that gas pedal issue is nowhere near the catastrophe Toyota has made
it out to be. I think they are helping out their GM buddies. Call me
crazy.

IMHO the big deal is that Toyota "has" a recall. When I was working for an
Olds dealer in 1986 we built a new dealership near a new Toyota dealership.
Dealers hold on to warranty replacement parts until a factory rep examines
them or gives the "ok" to scrap the parts. When we and the Toyota
dealership had been in our new locations for 3 or so months I visited the
Toyota parts manager and noticed his "warranty bin". IIRC there were 4 or 5
warranty parts, my warranty bin probably had 80-90 defective parts. Toyota
and GM have been in business together since the come back of the Nova in the
early 80's and the Geo car line that Chevrolet used to sell. AAMOF GM was
building one of the Honda models at one time, although it was sold directly
by Isuzu to Honda. Isuzu had the same vehicle but GM built that vehicle for
Isuzu. Long ago Isuzu built the small Chevy Luv pickups, some time in the
90's that reversed and GM built Isuzu pickups.
They are all in bed with each other in some way shape or form but it is not
news to hear about an American car builder with recall problems, it is out
of the ordinary for Toyota or Honda to have recalls at all.
IIRC this recall is supposed to cost Toyota $240,000,000.00. That is a mere
drop in the bucket compared to what a typical GM recall would cost. I would
speculate to say that GM probably would not have been in trouble at all had
it not spent so much money on correcting something that should not have been
a problem to start with.

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:17:36 -0500, Michael Kenefick
wrote:


My 2006 Tundra was recalled in 2007. The Toyota dealer notified me
and replaced the front ball joints. And then, sometimes the Toyota
dealer can be a pest, trying me to trade for a newer model. Geez, my
truck is barely broken in at 16,000 miles. Overall, it's a good
solid truck and hope to take it to well-over 100,000 miles.

I hope you out last the truck... At the rate you are going you will have it
25 years before you reach 100K.


If at the
time I was truck shopping, if I did not cut a good deal, I was ready
to look at Ford 150s where there are more choices and high demand. I
think Ford makes a good truck, certainly better looking than a Tundra.

Ford certainly makes a good looking truck but IMHO they are spending more on
looks than dependability and that is probably the single reason why the
imports are starting to gain on the big truck market. I absolutely hated
the looks of the new 07 Tundras. I shopped Ford, GMC, Chevrolet and Toyota.
I have only owned GM trucks and was totally turned off by both GMC and
Chevrolet. The backs seats were to up right to be comfortable and the back
doors wiggled visibly on the highway. Our 97 Chevy was great but my wife
could not get comfortable in the 07 GM trucks. I had about decided to not
buy a new truck but went ahead and test drove the Tundra. I almost knew
before getting out of the lot for a test drive that I would probably but the
Tundra, it felt that much better. I wanted quality for a change, so far no
disappointment.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:04:14 -0800, Robatoy wrote:

Industry insiders tell me that
gas pedal issue is nowhere near the catastrophe Toyota has made it out
to be.

I came to the same conclusion. It was reported that the problem was
gradual. The pedal progressively got "stickier" over time. In addition,
it was said that the cause was friction between two parts of the linkage
caused by condensation.

Back when drivers knew how their cars worked and paid attention to things
that changed, they (or at least I) would have raised the hood, sprayed on
a little WD-40, and repeated as necessary :-).

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 00:26:22 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:04:14 -0800, Robatoy wrote:

Industry insiders tell me that
gas pedal issue is nowhere near the catastrophe Toyota has made it out
to be.

I came to the same conclusion. It was reported that the problem was
gradual. The pedal progressively got "stickier" over time. In addition,
it was said that the cause was friction between two parts of the linkage
caused by condensation.

Back when drivers knew how their cars worked and paid attention to things
that changed, they (or at least I) would have raised the hood, sprayed on
a little WD-40, and repeated as necessary :-).

But the part is apparently enclosed. Some word out about a "fix" being
the insertion of a metal shim to provide clearance on vehicles "in the
field".

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:19:16 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"dpb" wrote in message
...
Leon wrote:
...

I think the question should be what is CTI, the American maker of the
pedal, doing to do to help resolve the problem.

AFAICT, building to spec on the originals and shipping a redesigned
part...


It would seem odd that the the manufacturers that used CTI and are stopping
production would submit defective spec's to CTI to start with. Perhaps QC
was a problem, from what I understand the pedals wore or broke prematurely.

Condensation (+ rust?) was apparently the culprit.

"Toyota dealers in the U.S. have been swamped with calls from
concerned owners but had few answers as the recalls snowballed.
Elkhart, Ind.-based CTS Corp., which made the parts, is cranking out
redesigned gas pedal assemblies that fix the problem, which is caused
by condensation around an arm attached to the pedal and springs that
send the pedal back to the idle position.Toyota dealers in the U.S.
have been swamped with calls from concerned owners but had few answers
as the recalls snowballed. Elkhart, Ind.-based CTS Corp., which made
the parts, is cranking out redesigned gas pedal assemblies that fix
the problem, which is caused by condensation around an arm attached to
the pedal and springs that send the pedal back to the idle position."

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:24:06 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy
scrawled the following:

THIS is 'good'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWGn6_EH2gM

No, Toy. That's just downright SCARY!

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:32:51 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"Michael Kenefick" wrote in message
...
Toyota has been denying it. They had a smaller, quieter recall last year
for a related issue. Supposedly the rugs were catching the gas petals.


How have they been denying it???? I was informed by Toyota last year of the
problem as was all of the other owners with affected cars. Do you own an
affected Toyota? Because the recall has not made the news does tham make
Toyota quilty of denying?

Toyota denying it? 2.4 million vehicles being recalled DID make the
news, guys. I got my notice, too, but my pedal has 2.5" of clearance
from my floor mat so it wasn't a life-threatener. We'll see what
comes of it. My throttle feel hasn't changed in 2 years, and that's
something I would have noticed.


All of the auto makers have campaign recalls on going most all of the time,
that is not news.

Yes it is. It's bad news, every time, to somebody.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 14:14:03 -0500, the infamous Phisherman
scrawled the following:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:17:36 -0500, Michael Kenefick
wrote:

Toyota has been denying it. They had a smaller, quieter recall last
year for a related issue. Supposedly the rugs were catching the gas
petals.

Isn't that president supposed to commit harry carry after a major
embarrassment such as this?

RonB wrote:
CNN: "Toyota's president Akio Toyoda apologized for the gas pedal
problems that have forced the recall of millions of vehicles, Japanese
media reported."

What a difference from the approach other auto manufacturer's have
used when faced with a major problem. Apologize. The norm has been
deny it. deny it. deny it. Then grudgingly fix it while continuing
to deny a real problem.


My 2006 Tundra was recalled in 2007. The Toyota dealer notified me
and replaced the front ball joints. And then, sometimes the Toyota
dealer can be a pest, trying me to trade for a newer model. Geez, my
truck is barely broken in at 16,000 miles. Overall, it's a good
solid truck and hope to take it to well-over 100,000 miles. If at the
time I was truck shopping, if I did not cut a good deal, I was ready
to look at Ford 150s where there are more choices and high demand. I
think Ford makes a good truck, certainly better looking than a Tundra.

Perhaps, but I wouldn't trade my Tundra for ten F-series trucks. I ran
my old truck ('90 F-150) for 17 years and was absolutely astounded
when I drove a new one. What a difference! Then I tried the Tacoma
(not bad, but hated the wimpy brake system) and the Tundra. I
instantly fell head over heels for the Tundra. It didn't hurt that the
vehicle I bought was $14k less than the equivalent F-series.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 16:09:06 -0600, the infamous "Leon"
scrawled the following:


"Phisherman" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:17:36 -0500, Michael Kenefick
wrote:


My 2006 Tundra was recalled in 2007. The Toyota dealer notified me
and replaced the front ball joints. And then, sometimes the Toyota
dealer can be a pest, trying me to trade for a newer model. Geez, my
truck is barely broken in at 16,000 miles. Overall, it's a good
solid truck and hope to take it to well-over 100,000 miles.

I hope you out last the truck... At the rate you are going you will have it
25 years before you reach 100K.

At 6k a year, my Tundra oughta outlast me, too.



If at the
time I was truck shopping, if I did not cut a good deal, I was ready
to look at Ford 150s where there are more choices and high demand. I
think Ford makes a good truck, certainly better looking than a Tundra.

Ford certainly makes a good looking truck but IMHO they are spending more on
looks than dependability and that is probably the single reason why the
imports are starting to gain on the big truck market. I absolutely hated
the looks of the new 07 Tundras. I shopped Ford, GMC, Chevrolet and Toyota.
I have only owned GM trucks and was totally turned off by both GMC and
Chevrolet. The backs seats were to up right to be comfortable and the back
doors wiggled visibly on the highway. Our 97 Chevy was great but my wife
could not get comfortable in the 07 GM trucks. I had about decided to not
buy a new truck but went ahead and test drove the Tundra. I almost knew
before getting out of the lot for a test drive that I would probably but the
Tundra, it felt that much better. I wanted quality for a change, so far no
disappointment.

Dittoes on all the concepts and realizations you stated above, 'cept
I've never owned (and never will) a Chebby truck. insert Robatoy
Raspberry here for GM

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On 2010-01-30 11:27:22 -0500, "Leon" said:

Do you recall the last Toyota recall?

Tacoma frame rust-out.

On 2010-01-30 17:09:06 -0500, "Leon" said:

Ford certainly makes a good looking truck but IMHO they are spending
more on looks than dependability and that is probably the single
reason why the imports are starting to gain on the big truck market.
I absolutely hated the looks of the new 07 Tundras. I shopped Ford,
GMC, Chevrolet and Toyota. I have only owned GM trucks and was totally
turned off by both GMC and Chevrolet.

After years of driving Volvos (including the 1800S and ES!), I switched
to Toyotas. We've been quite happy with them. Maybe not exciting cars,
but certainly drivable.

Then I was seduced by a gloriously yellow ("DOT yellow") Chevy
Colorado. I liked that truck -- it was the right size, had some
amenities, and it was YELLOW! But there were some niggling little
things, like the radio antenna. It was just about 1/4 inch too near the
windshield for the wiper blade to clear when you scrubbed the
windshield. And the parking brake peddle snagged my cuff EVERY time I
got in the damn truck...

But the real kicker came in the three months immediately prior to the
warranty expiration.

Month 3: replaced the heater blower motor (under warranty).

Month 2: replaced the heater blower motor (under warranty).

Month 1: replaced the heater -- bet you thought I was going to write
"blower moter," didnt you? -- control switch.

Month 0: replaced the truck. I'm back in a Toyota. It's red.

Able to haul a lot of wood and machinery in that, too!

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:03:55 -0600, the infamous Dave Balderstone
scrawled the following:

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

Perhaps, but I wouldn't trade my Tundra for ten F-series trucks. I ran
my old truck ('90 F-150) for 17 years and was absolutely astounded
when I drove a new one. What a difference! Then I tried the Tacoma
(not bad, but hated the wimpy brake system) and the Tundra. I
instantly fell head over heels for the Tundra. It didn't hurt that the
vehicle I bought was $14k less than the equivalent F-series.

Yabbut...

I still recall fondly standing INSIDE the engine compartment of an old
F150 straight 6 doing a complete tuneup including valve adjustments...

Deep sigh...

Ditto, next to my 312 V-8 on the '61 F-100, my very first truck.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:03:55 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

Perhaps, but I wouldn't trade my Tundra for ten F-series trucks. I ran
my old truck ('90 F-150) for 17 years and was absolutely astounded
when I drove a new one. What a difference! Then I tried the Tacoma
(not bad, but hated the wimpy brake system) and the Tundra. I
instantly fell head over heels for the Tundra. It didn't hurt that the
vehicle I bought was $14k less than the equivalent F-series.

Yabbut...

I still recall fondly standing INSIDE the engine compartment of an old
F150 straight 6 doing a complete tuneup including valve adjustments...

The bad news was that you *had* to do frequent tune-ups. Good
riddance coils and points!

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:53:05 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article , krw
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:03:55 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

Perhaps, but I wouldn't trade my Tundra for ten F-series trucks. I ran
my old truck ('90 F-150) for 17 years and was absolutely astounded
when I drove a new one. What a difference! Then I tried the Tacoma
(not bad, but hated the wimpy brake system) and the Tundra. I
instantly fell head over heels for the Tundra. It didn't hurt that the
vehicle I bought was $14k less than the equivalent F-series.

Yabbut...

I still recall fondly standing INSIDE the engine compartment of an old
F150 straight 6 doing a complete tuneup including valve adjustments...

The bad news was that you *had* to do frequent tune-ups. Good
riddance coils and points!

Anyone want to buy a used points file?

;-)
How about a dwell meter and timing light??? Or a tachometer, even?????

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
Snip\\


Dittoes on all the concepts and realizations you stated above, 'cept
I've never owned (and never will) a Chebby truck. insert Robatoy
Raspberry here for GM

I did not have the incentive to continure with GM trucks this time
aroundalthough the GMC I looked at was offered at $5k less than the Toyota.
My employeer sold GMC when I bought GMC, great price, and I looked better
buying what I sold, so to speak. My 97 Chevy was $3500. below dealer
invoice using my bank of credit dollars on my GM CCard.

"Steve" wrote in message
g.com...
On 2010-01-30 17:09:06 -0500, "Leon" said:

Ford certainly makes a good looking truck but IMHO they are spending more
on looks than dependability and that is probably the single reason why
the imports are starting to gain on the big truck market. I absolutely
hated the looks of the new 07 Tundras. I shopped Ford, GMC, Chevrolet
and Toyota. I have only owned GM trucks and was totally turned off by
both GMC and Chevrolet.

After years of driving Volvos (including the 1800S and ES!), I switched to
Toyotas. We've been quite happy with them. Maybe not exciting cars, but
certainly drivable.

Then I was seduced by a gloriously yellow ("DOT yellow") Chevy Colorado. I
liked that truck -- it was the right size, had some amenities, and it was
YELLOW! But there were some niggling little things, like the radio
antenna. It was just about 1/4 inch too near the windshield for the wiper
blade to clear when you scrubbed the windshield. And the parking brake
peddle snagged my cuff EVERY time I got in the damn truck...

The Colorado and Canyon days are numbered.





But the real kicker came in the three months immediately prior to the
warranty expiration.

Month 3: replaced the heater blower motor (under warranty).

One of the parts that GM refuses to build better, I stocked at any given
time probably 2-3 hundred blower motors.


Month 2: replaced the heater blower motor (under warranty).

Month 1: replaced the heater -- bet you thought I was going to write
"blower moter," didnt you? -- control switch.

Naw, LOL you were at your quota.

Given enough time you certianly would have replaced the alternator, I
stocked close to 1K of assorted numbers. And the AC compressor, those were
ordered by the hundreds per part number. When GM dropped the rebuildable A6
axial compressor and when with the radial in the mid 70's reliability
failed.

"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message
news:300120102103557945%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderst one.ca...
In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

Perhaps, but I wouldn't trade my Tundra for ten F-series trucks. I ran
my old truck ('90 F-150) for 17 years and was absolutely astounded
when I drove a new one. What a difference! Then I tried the Tacoma
(not bad, but hated the wimpy brake system) and the Tundra. I
instantly fell head over heels for the Tundra. It didn't hurt that the
vehicle I bought was $14k less than the equivalent F-series.

Yabbut...

I still recall fondly standing INSIDE the engine compartment of an old
F150 straight 6 doing a complete tuneup including valve adjustments...

Deep sigh...

Yabbut they have not built them that way for a few decades now.

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:03:55 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:
I still recall fondly standing INSIDE the engine compartment of an old
F150 straight 6 doing a complete tuneup including valve adjustments...

The bad news was that you *had* to do frequent tune-ups. Good
riddance coils and points!

True, about every 12,000 miles but it typically took less time to change the
plugs, points, condenser, and rotor than it did to change the oil. That
said, my 97 Chevy pu had close to 80K when I traded it in and it had the
original plugs.

On Jan 31, 7:18*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"krw" wrote in message

...

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:03:55 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:
I still recall fondly standing INSIDE the engine compartment of an old
F150 straight 6 doing a complete tuneup including valve adjustments...

The bad news was that you *had* to do frequent tune-ups. *Good
riddance coils and points!

True, about every 12,000 miles but it typically took less time to change the
plugs, points, condenser, and rotor than it did to change the oil. *That
said, my 97 Chevy pu had close to 80K when I traded it in and it had the
original plugs.

They'd go on my cars on *the* nastiest day of the year (33F and
rain). No thanks.
I think my Ranger still has its original plugs (9 years/90Kmi). I
know it has its original wires.

OTOH, I had a '93 Eagle Vision that would throw a set of wires every
year. The book said it was a 3-hour job but I got it down to an hour
clock time by making my own tools to route the wires under the intake
manifold and fuel rail. A set of wires was $100 from Chrysler and the
after-market wires did not fit. It turns out that the label on the
engine had the wrong spark gap listed. It was only off by a factor of
two. :-(

On Feb 1, 9:02*am, " wrote:
On Jan 31, 7:18*pm, "Leon" wrote:



"krw" wrote in message

.. .

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:03:55 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:
I still recall fondly standing INSIDE the engine compartment of an old
F150 straight 6 doing a complete tuneup including valve adjustments....

The bad news was that you *had* to do frequent tune-ups. *Good
riddance coils and points!

True, about every 12,000 miles but it typically took less time to change the
plugs, points, condenser, and rotor than it did to change the oil. *That
said, my 97 Chevy pu had close to 80K when I traded it in and it had the
original plugs.

They'd go on my cars on *the* nastiest day of the year (33F and
rain). *No thanks.
I think my Ranger still has its original plugs (9 years/90Kmi). *I
know it has its original wires.

33F and rain is the nastiest day of the year!!!

Holy crap. What is your address in heaven?

RonB