I have a cabinet to make with a couple of drawers. I'm considering
hand cutting dovetails for the drawers and for top rails of the
carcase. When I have cut dovetails previously I have used a tenon saw
or a "Junior" hacksaw with reasonable results, but I'm wondering if it
would be worthwhile buying a specialist dovetail saw. There appear to
be various types and makes available on the web including pull saws.
Any advice or recommendations?

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon so I don't want to spend a
lot of money on a machine jig. I also get more pleasure from "hand"
woodwork than "machine" woodwork.

TIA
Pete

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon

You missed that opportunity yesterday. Should have asked Santa to
bring you 1 or 2 saws.

I have a few fine toothed pull saws for that purpose, but I use the
router more often. Pull saws work fine for me, especially for large
dovetails.

Sonny

"petek" wrote in message
...

I have a cabinet to make with a couple of drawers. I'm considering
hand cutting dovetails for the drawers and for top rails of the
carcase. When I have cut dovetails previously I have used a tenon saw
or a "Junior" hacksaw with reasonable results, but I'm wondering if it
would be worthwhile buying a specialist dovetail saw. There appear to
be various types and makes available on the web including pull saws.
Any advice or recommendations?

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon so I don't want to spend a
lot of money on a machine jig. I also get more pleasure from "hand"
woodwork than "machine" woodwork.

TIA
Pete

These work quite well, and the price isn't quite as breathtaking as some of
the dovetail saws one sees in the locked cabinet at Woodcraft.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/0/2...-Dozuki-Z.aspx

On Jan 1, 5:45*pm, petek wrote:
I have a cabinet to make with a couple of drawers. I'm considering
hand cutting dovetails for the drawers and for top rails of the
carcase. When I have cut dovetails previously I have used a tenon saw
or a "Junior" hacksaw with reasonable results, but I'm wondering if it
would be worthwhile buying a specialist dovetail saw. There appear to
be various types and makes available on the web including pull saws.
Any advice or recommendations?

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon so I don't want to spend a
lot of money on a machine jig. I also get more pleasure from "hand"
woodwork than "machine" woodwork.

TIA
Pete

The box joints and dovetails I've hand-cut have been small-scale. The
two pull saws I've used work well for the job, once you learn how to
use them. The first one I bought several years ago, was a Shark Saw
fine cut double saw. It has 17 and 9 tpi and cost less than $20. The
second one I bought last year was an Irwin fine detail pull saw. It
has a 7 1/4 inch blade with 22 tpi and cost around $15. Both have
removable "replacable" blades, but I think the blades are about as
expensive as a new saw. Still these are inexpensive if you want to
try this style saw out. I was happy with both saws, and wish I hadn't
given the small one away.

Pete,

I tried using a Japanese style saw a while back, and loved it. This is
the Lee Valley model I use. The price is reasonable.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...29&cat=1,42884

Good luck,
Glen

petek wrote:
I have a cabinet to make with a couple of drawers. I'm considering
hand cutting dovetails for the drawers and for top rails of the
carcase. When I have cut dovetails previously I have used a tenon saw
or a "Junior" hacksaw with reasonable results, but I'm wondering if it
would be worthwhile buying a specialist dovetail saw. There appear to
be various types and makes available on the web including pull saws.
Any advice or recommendations?

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon so I don't want to spend a
lot of money on a machine jig. I also get more pleasure from "hand"
woodwork than "machine" woodwork.

TIA
Pete

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 06:25:16 -0800, the infamous Glen
scrawled the following:

Pete,

I tried using a Japanese style saw a while back, and loved it. This is
the Lee Valley model I use. The price is reasonable.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...29&cat=1,42884

Ditto that. I tried Lee Valley's French import dovie and found that I
didn't really like it. The $26 Gyokucho ryoba noko giri from
www.japanwoodworker.com has been my fave saw for many years now. FWW
used to have their sale coupons in them: a 10" ryoba for $25.99,
including shipping.

The last time I was by HF, I grabbed one of their $6 pullsaws and
tossed it in the truck. I haven't yet used it.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94722

I picked up an azibiki recently ($18 eBay, Japanese import) but
haven't used it yet. I got it for inside cuts, but it might turn into
my favorite dovie saw. We'll see.

Not that tool collectors make a lot of dovies...

--
Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness.
--Thomas Paine

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 15:45:11 -0800 (PST), petek
wrote:

I have a cabinet to make with a couple of drawers. I'm considering
hand cutting dovetails for the drawers and for top rails of the
carcase. When I have cut dovetails previously I have used a tenon saw
or a "Junior" hacksaw with reasonable results, but I'm wondering if it
would be worthwhile buying a specialist dovetail saw. There appear to
be various types and makes available on the web including pull saws.
Any advice or recommendations?

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon so I don't want to spend a
lot of money on a machine jig. I also get more pleasure from "hand"
woodwork than "machine" woodwork.

TIA
Pete

Get a saw or two with fine teeth with a comfortable handle. The
better saws will feel good when using it. With that, I'd try to find
the highest quality dovetail saw I could find. I have a Disston with
over 30 years of use, and it is accurate with a good feel.

You can buy a reasonably priced dovetail(rip) saw, sharpen it with a $6
or $7 file if necessary, set the teeth if needed, usually not on a new
saw, and get a perfectly adequate, fast cutting, saw for dovetails. The
teeth are filed perpendicular to the saw blade. One and half strokes on
each tooth is normally adequate. No angle to maintain other than that.
The proper set/kerf of the teeth allows the rest of the blade to move
easily in the cut. Too much set and the blade slops around in the cut
and may not cut straight or smoothly. Not enough set and the blade
rubs, pinches and makes it difficult to cut. I like the somewhat
standard 15 teeth per inch. The more teeth per inch the easier it is to
start the cut but the slower and harder it is to complete the rest of
the cut. Starting the cut should be done with the push stroke with only
20% of the weight of the saw pushing on the wood. The higher end saws
have stronger backs and better steel. In other words, the blade has less
tendency to get out of alignment and it stays sharper longer. If you
sight down the saw and see a bend. Mark a line where bend is most
severe, put that line at the end of your vise, tighten down and gently
bend the saw in the opposite direction to straighten. Pistol grip
dovetail saws are easier to keep perpendicular when cutting, in my
opinion. It fits into your hand the same way everytime. Japanese pull
saws have thin, finer teeth, take longer to make the cut, break off
easily and are next to impossible to sharpen. I have read that they are
not really well suited for western hardwoods like maple and the blade
will wander a bit on the back side of the cut. I have and use a couple
Japanese saws but would not use them for precision dovetail work.
Others here do, obviously, and successfully. Yep, different strokes for
different folks.. -Jim.

On 1/1/2010 3:45 PM, petek wrote:
I have a cabinet to make with a couple of drawers. I'm considering
hand cutting dovetails for the drawers and for top rails of the
carcase. When I have cut dovetails previously I have used a tenon saw
or a "Junior" hacksaw with reasonable results, but I'm wondering if it
would be worthwhile buying a specialist dovetail saw. There appear to
be various types and makes available on the web including pull saws.
Any advice or recommendations?

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon so I don't want to spend a
lot of money on a machine jig. I also get more pleasure from "hand"
woodwork than "machine" woodwork.

TIA
Pete

"petek" wrote in message
...
I have a cabinet to make with a couple of drawers. I'm considering
hand cutting dovetails for the drawers and for top rails of the
carcase. When I have cut dovetails previously I have used a tenon saw
or a "Junior" hacksaw with reasonable results, but I'm wondering if it
would be worthwhile buying a specialist dovetail saw. There appear to
be various types and makes available on the web including pull saws.
Any advice or recommendations?

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon so I don't want to spend a
lot of money on a machine jig. I also get more pleasure from "hand"
woodwork than "machine" woodwork.

Is it an old school kinda thing? I use a dovetail jig and a router.

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 20:50:21 -0800, "DGDevin" wrote:


"petek" wrote in message
...

I have a cabinet to make with a couple of drawers. I'm considering
hand cutting dovetails for the drawers and for top rails of the
carcase. When I have cut dovetails previously I have used a tenon saw
or a "Junior" hacksaw with reasonable results, but I'm wondering if it
would be worthwhile buying a specialist dovetail saw. There appear to
be various types and makes available on the web including pull saws.
Any advice or recommendations?

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon so I don't want to spend a
lot of money on a machine jig. I also get more pleasure from "hand"
woodwork than "machine" woodwork.

TIA
Pete

These work quite well, and the price isn't quite as breathtaking as some of
the dovetail saws one sees in the locked cabinet at Woodcraft.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/0/2...-Dozuki-Z.aspx


Here's a cheap option - closeout at $5. I fiddled with it a bit today, and don't think I will like
it. Cuts slow, but I did not give it a full test and will play with it some more tomorrow. Worst
case is I will take it apart, grind off the teeth and see if it will make a card scraper. Metal
mikes at about 0.030 which is a little thin for an 80 or 81.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/202...Tenon-Saw.aspx

Can I answer that too.. from my perspective..

It definitely is old school in a sense. I'm not sure you can justify
hand cut dovetails from an economic stand point unless you're really
good at it.. I mean once you've got the dovetail jig set up, which can
be a bit of a PITA to do at times, you can bang out dovetail joints
pretty darn fast. A lot faster than I can by hand at this point. I
still use a dovetail jig. I have an old craftsman I bought in 1971 and
a newer Leigh jig. If its drawers for a shop or plywood cabinet I use
the jig.. If its a piece of furniture I want to be a family heirloom,
I'll consider hand cut dovetails first. Hand cut dovetails allow much
more flexibility in the size, shape and location of dovetail joint. I
must say though that probably the average person wouldn't know the
difference. Only those of us building or selling furniture will spot it..

I'm finding myself more and more reaching for hand tools vs power tools
when I have the choice and confidence. Take the dovetail template and
the router.. You know what its like, that incessant screaming sound of
the router, chips and sawdust flying everywhere and then there's that
accidental catch and tear.. If you make them by hand, I think you have
more control and it's quite and peaceful or how bout the belt sander
spewing sawdust around the shop vs a jointer or smoothing plane for
flattening a board. For me, it just makes the whole experience much
more enjoyable and rewarding to use hand tools when I can.

On 1/2/2010 7:49 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
"petek" wrote in message
...
I have a cabinet to make with a couple of drawers. I'm considering
hand cutting dovetails for the drawers and for top rails of the
carcase. When I have cut dovetails previously I have used a tenon saw
or a "Junior" hacksaw with reasonable results, but I'm wondering if it
would be worthwhile buying a specialist dovetail saw. There appear to
be various types and makes available on the web including pull saws.
Any advice or recommendations?

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon so I don't want to spend a
lot of money on a machine jig. I also get more pleasure from "hand"
woodwork than "machine" woodwork.

Is it an old school kinda thing? I use a dovetail jig and a router.

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:55:45 -0800, the infamous Jim Hall
scrawled the following:

Can I answer that too.. from my perspective..

It definitely is old school in a sense. I'm not sure you can justify
hand cut dovetails from an economic stand point unless you're really
good at it.. I mean once you've got the dovetail jig set up, which can
be a bit of a PITA to do at times, you can bang out dovetail joints
pretty darn fast. A lot faster than I can by hand at this point. I
still use a dovetail jig. I have an old craftsman I bought in 1971 and
a newer Leigh jig. If its drawers for a shop or plywood cabinet I use
the jig.. If its a piece of furniture I want to be a family heirloom,
I'll consider hand cut dovetails first. Hand cut dovetails allow much
more flexibility in the size, shape and location of dovetail joint. I
must say though that probably the average person wouldn't know the
difference. Only those of us building or selling furniture will spot it..

I'm finding myself more and more reaching for hand tools vs power tools
when I have the choice and confidence. Take the dovetail template and
the router.. You know what its like, that incessant screaming sound of
the router, chips and sawdust flying everywhere and then there's that
accidental catch and tear.. If you make them by hand, I think you have
more control and it's quite and peaceful or how bout the belt sander
spewing sawdust around the shop vs a jointer or smoothing plane for
flattening a board. For me, it just makes the whole experience much
more enjoyable and rewarding to use hand tools when I can.

Pick up a copy of Frank Klausz' DVD if you want to learn how to get
good quickly. He really is a master at handcut dovies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-o4jryTkUc the quick version g
Otherwise, it's "Dovetail a Drawer"
http://fwd4.me/A5J Under $20, delivered to your door!

Frank's The Man.

--
Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness.
--Thomas Paine

On Jan 1, 6:45*pm, petek wrote:
I have a cabinet to make with a couple of drawers. I'm considering
hand cutting dovetails for the drawers and for top rails of the
carcase. When I have cut dovetails previously I have used a tenon saw
or a "Junior" hacksaw with reasonable results, but I'm wondering if it
would be worthwhile buying a specialist dovetail saw. There appear to
be various types and makes available on the web including pull saws.
Any advice or recommendations?

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon so I don't want to spend a
lot of money on a machine jig. I also get more pleasure from "hand"
woodwork than "machine" woodwork.

These work well, and will set you back $13 --
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/202...t-Backsaw.aspx

X-Acto backsaw blades do a good job, too.

Frank is also one hell of a nice guy. I met him at the Woodworking Show
(SoCal) a few years back and I mentioned that one of my students
borrowed my DVD of him and was practicing his technique. He cut some
dovetails and autographed them and asked me to pass them along to my
student. A real gentleman.

Glen

Larry Jaques wrote:


Pick up a copy of Frank Klausz' DVD if you want to learn how to get
good quickly. He really is a master at handcut dovies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-o4jryTkUc the quick version g
Otherwise, it's "Dovetail a Drawer"
http://fwd4.me/A5J Under $20, delivered to your door!

Frank's The Man.

--
Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness.
--Thomas Paine

I know, but that giant bow saw for cutting blind dovetails looks tough
to use. I like the way he follows up and finishes the cut with a broken
off piece of bandsaw blade.. That was cool. I swear everyone seems to
have their own way of cutting dovetails.. I was watching Tim Rosseau
make some on Fine Woodworking.com and he uses templates and the bandsaw
to make the cuts on all but blind dovetails. Some drill out the waist on
the drill table before cleaning out.. There clearly in my mind anyway
is no right way to do it, rather its just what feels right to you.. -Jim

On 1/3/2010 7:21 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 20:55:45 -0800, the infamous Jim Hall
scrawled the following:

Can I answer that too.. from my perspective..

It definitely is old school in a sense. I'm not sure you can justify
hand cut dovetails from an economic stand point unless you're really
good at it.. I mean once you've got the dovetail jig set up, which can
be a bit of a PITA to do at times, you can bang out dovetail joints
pretty darn fast. A lot faster than I can by hand at this point. I
still use a dovetail jig. I have an old craftsman I bought in 1971 and
a newer Leigh jig. If its drawers for a shop or plywood cabinet I use
the jig.. If its a piece of furniture I want to be a family heirloom,
I'll consider hand cut dovetails first. Hand cut dovetails allow much
more flexibility in the size, shape and location of dovetail joint. I
must say though that probably the average person wouldn't know the
difference. Only those of us building or selling furniture will spot it..

I'm finding myself more and more reaching for hand tools vs power tools
when I have the choice and confidence. Take the dovetail template and
the router.. You know what its like, that incessant screaming sound of
the router, chips and sawdust flying everywhere and then there's that
accidental catch and tear.. If you make them by hand, I think you have
more control and it's quite and peaceful or how bout the belt sander
spewing sawdust around the shop vs a jointer or smoothing plane for
flattening a board. For me, it just makes the whole experience much
more enjoyable and rewarding to use hand tools when I can.

Pick up a copy of Frank Klausz' DVD if you want to learn how to get
good quickly. He really is a master at handcut dovies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-o4jryTkUc the quick versiong
Otherwise, it's "Dovetail a Drawer"
http://fwd4.me/A5J Under $20, delivered to your door!

Frank's The Man.

--
Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness.
--Thomas Paine

On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 12:58:41 -0800, the infamous Glen
scrawled the following:

Frank is also one hell of a nice guy. I met him at the Woodworking Show
(SoCal) a few years back and I mentioned that one of my students
borrowed my DVD of him and was practicing his technique. He cut some
dovetails and autographed them and asked me to pass them along to my
student. A real gentleman.

Glen

Glen, did you also take his seminar in Sandy Eggo, I think it was
sometime after 2000. He did a special for us members of the San Diego
Fine Woodworkers Association. That's where I picked up his term
"Hungarian paper towels", the floaty plane shavings on his floor. He
picks up a handful and wipes glue off his glueup and hands with those.
Yeah, he's a real nice guy. I got a pic with him, too.

--
Society is produced by our wants and government by our wickedness.
--Thomas Paine

If you are into "hand cut", then this is your deal:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...18&cat=1,42884

petek wrote:

I only cut dovetails once in a blue moon so I don't want to spend a
lot of money on a machine jig. I also get more pleasure from "hand"
woodwork than "machine" woodwork.

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
Is it an old school kinda thing? I use a dovetail jig and a router.

From what I read of James Krenov, one "won't get in touch with the wood"
that way... :-)

Maybe it's required to deal with the question of whether one is creating art
or something affordable, and maybe not.
I'm just offering a respected woodworker's opinion (not necessarily mine).
I guess you'd have to consider Mr. Krenov's viewpoints to be "old school".
Time and place for everything I suppose.

Bill