I have in my possession 3 old swivel desk chairs. one dates to the
1940s, I think, another to the late '20s and the third is documented
to 1898. They are all in mostly good condition with a few notable
issues. The biggest issues is with casters, since every type of caster
I have tried that looks even remotely appropriate falls apart after
only a few months in use. Normally what happens is that the cheap
metal socket that goes into the leg deforms and the casters start
leaning, from there the ball bearings for the swivel quickly
deteriorate and the caster is worthless. This is even with casters
supposedly rated at 200 lbs. I have tried every source I could find
for something reasonable, but the only ones I can find that look solid
are rather modernistic in design - chrome and clear plastic. Does
anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this short of just
buying the casters by the gross and replacing them every couple of
months?

Second question is on the 1898 chair. It is white oak and has a crack
(along a glue line) down the length of the seat. I have just had the
metal tilt/swivel mechanism on this chair repaired and want to fix the
crack before reassembling it all. Am I correct in assuming that hot
hide glue would be the preferred glue for this repair? This is the
only wood repair this chair needs and I want to match with what it was
originally built with.

Question 3 has to do with the 1920s chair. It has a cane seat (broken
and must be replaced) and a leather padded back. The leather is in
reasonably good shape, with no tears or holes, but is very dried out
and I want to condition it before this chair goes back into service.
Anyone have any recommendations on what to use on the leather?

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Tim Douglass wrote:
I have in my possession 3 old swivel desk chairs. one dates to the
1940s, I think, another to the late '20s and the third is documented
to 1898. They are all in mostly good condition with a few notable
issues. The biggest issues is with casters, since every type of caster
I have tried that looks even remotely appropriate falls apart after
only a few months in use. Normally what happens is that the cheap
metal socket that goes into the leg deforms and the casters start
leaning, from there the ball bearings for the swivel quickly
deteriorate and the caster is worthless. This is even with casters
supposedly rated at 200 lbs. I have tried every source I could find
for something reasonable, but the only ones I can find that look solid
are rather modernistic in design - chrome and clear plastic. Does
anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this short of just
buying the casters by the gross and replacing them every couple of
months?


These look like they're high quality without looking modern:

http://www.vandykes.com/product/2045...casters-1-1-4-

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

Nova wrote:

Tim Douglass wrote:

I have in my possession 3 old swivel desk chairs. one dates to the
1940s, I think, another to the late '20s and the third is documented
to 1898. They are all in mostly good condition with a few notable
issues. The biggest issues is with casters, since every type of caster
I have tried that looks even remotely appropriate falls apart after
only a few months in use. Normally what happens is that the cheap
metal socket that goes into the leg deforms and the casters start
leaning, from there the ball bearings for the swivel quickly
deteriorate and the caster is worthless. This is even with casters
supposedly rated at 200 lbs. I have tried every source I could find
for something reasonable, but the only ones I can find that look solid
are rather modernistic in design - chrome and clear plastic. Does
anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this short of just
buying the casters by the gross and replacing them every couple of
months?


These look like they're high quality without looking modern:

http://www.vandykes.com/product/2045...casters-1-1-4-



Never mind, I just noticed the part about, "Recommended for decorative
or stationary purposes only."

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA

In ,
Tim Douglass spewed forth:
I have in my possession 3 old swivel desk chairs. one dates to the
1940s, I think, another to the late '20s and the third is documented
to 1898. They are all in mostly good condition with a few notable
issues. The biggest issues is with casters, since every type of caster
I have tried that looks even remotely appropriate falls apart after
only a few months in use. Normally what happens is that the cheap
metal socket that goes into the leg deforms and the casters start
leaning, from there the ball bearings for the swivel quickly
deteriorate and the caster is worthless. This is even with casters
supposedly rated at 200 lbs. I have tried every source I could find
for something reasonable, but the only ones I can find that look solid
are rather modernistic in design - chrome and clear plastic. Does
anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this short of just
buying the casters by the gross and replacing them every couple of
months?

Second question is on the 1898 chair. It is white oak and has a crack
(along a glue line) down the length of the seat. I have just had the
metal tilt/swivel mechanism on this chair repaired and want to fix the
crack before reassembling it all. Am I correct in assuming that hot
hide glue would be the preferred glue for this repair? This is the
only wood repair this chair needs and I want to match with what it was
originally built with.

Question 3 has to do with the 1920s chair. It has a cane seat (broken
and must be replaced) and a leather padded back. The leather is in
reasonably good shape, with no tears or holes, but is very dried out
and I want to condition it before this chair goes back into service.
Anyone have any recommendations on what to use on the leather?

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.

it sounds like to me the hole in which the sleeve/collar go into is
wallered out.
The collar should fit snugly with no slop. You may need to drill the hole
out, fill with a dowel and redrill the hole, which commonly are 3/8.
If you can post a pic in abpw, I could possibly help some more

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:58:52 -0700, Tim Douglass
wrote:

I have in my possession 3 old swivel desk chairs. one dates to the
1940s, I think, another to the late '20s and the third is documented
to 1898. They are all in mostly good condition with a few notable
issues. The biggest issues is with casters, since every type of caster
I have tried that looks even remotely appropriate falls apart after
only a few months in use. Normally what happens is that the cheap
metal socket that goes into the leg deforms and the casters start
leaning, from there the ball bearings for the swivel quickly
deteriorate and the caster is worthless. This is even with casters
supposedly rated at 200 lbs. I have tried every source I could find
for something reasonable, but the only ones I can find that look solid
are rather modernistic in design - chrome and clear plastic. Does
anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this short of just
buying the casters by the gross and replacing them every couple of
months?

Second question is on the 1898 chair. It is white oak and has a crack
(along a glue line) down the length of the seat. I have just had the
metal tilt/swivel mechanism on this chair repaired and want to fix the
crack before reassembling it all. Am I correct in assuming that hot
hide glue would be the preferred glue for this repair? This is the
only wood repair this chair needs and I want to match with what it was
originally built with.

Question 3 has to do with the 1920s chair. It has a cane seat (broken
and must be replaced) and a leather padded back. The leather is in
reasonably good shape, with no tears or holes, but is very dried out
and I want to condition it before this chair goes back into service.
Anyone have any recommendations on what to use on the leather?

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.









http://www.kennedyhardware.com/casters/


the glue is fine but i would buy the cold version


try lexol on the leather







Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

"ChairMan" wrote in message
...

it sounds like to me the hole in which the sleeve/collar go into is
wallered out.
The collar should fit snugly with no slop. You may need to drill the hole
out, fill with a dowel and redrill the hole, which commonly are 3/8.
If you can post a pic in abpw, I could possibly help some more


I had the same problem on some "not so old chairs" and solved the problem
exactly with that method. Still working 10 years later. My problem was
that the factory drilled the holes too big.

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:58:52 -0700, Tim Douglass
wrote:

I have in my possession 3 old swivel desk chairs. one dates to the
1940s, I think, another to the late '20s and the third is documented
to 1898. They are all in mostly good condition with a few notable
issues. The biggest issues is with casters, since every type of caster
I have tried that looks even remotely appropriate falls apart after
only a few months in use. Normally what happens is that the cheap
metal socket that goes into the leg deforms and the casters start
leaning, from there the ball bearings for the swivel quickly
deteriorate and the caster is worthless. This is even with casters
supposedly rated at 200 lbs. I have tried every source I could find
for something reasonable, but the only ones I can find that look solid
are rather modernistic in design - chrome and clear plastic. Does
anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this short of just
buying the casters by the gross and replacing them every couple of
months?

If it is the metal inserts that are causing the problem, get a
machinist friend to rurn out a set of good thick ones that won't
deform and install the best caster you can find that looks good.

Second question is on the 1898 chair. It is white oak and has a crack
(along a glue line) down the length of the seat. I have just had the
metal tilt/swivel mechanism on this chair repaired and want to fix the
crack before reassembling it all. Am I correct in assuming that hot
hide glue would be the preferred glue for this repair? This is the
only wood repair this chair needs and I want to match with what it was
originally built with.
Hide gue would likely be the "best (as far as restoration) method, but
nothing wrong with a good epoxy or poly-urethane glue either.

Question 3 has to do with the 1920s chair. It has a cane seat (broken
and must be replaced) and a leather padded back. The leather is in
reasonably good shape, with no tears or holes, but is very dried out
and I want to condition it before this chair goes back into service.
Anyone have any recommendations on what to use on the leather?

Neetsfoot oil or connolly hide food Clean well with Lexol leather
cleaner first. The connolly hide food is likely the best solution.

Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions.

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:46:55 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:58:52 -0700, Tim Douglass
wrote:

I have in my possession 3 old swivel desk chairs. one dates to the
1940s, I think, another to the late '20s and the third is documented
to 1898. They are all in mostly good condition with a few notable
issues. The biggest issues is with casters, since every type of caster
I have tried that looks even remotely appropriate falls apart after
only a few months in use. Normally what happens is that the cheap
metal socket that goes into the leg deforms and the casters start
leaning, from there the ball bearings for the swivel quickly
deteriorate and the caster is worthless. This is even with casters
supposedly rated at 200 lbs. I have tried every source I could find
for something reasonable, but the only ones I can find that look solid
are rather modernistic in design - chrome and clear plastic. Does
anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this short of just
buying the casters by the gross and replacing them every couple of
months?

If it is the metal inserts that are causing the problem, get a
machinist friend to rurn out a set of good thick ones that won't
deform and install the best caster you can find that looks good.

Yeah, I think the inserts are the real culprit, but I'm not sure what
to do about it. They are tapered (which is why they waller out the
hole) so you can't make them fit snugly and they have to have some
spring to them so that they grab the stem of the caster. At the
moment I live about 400 miles away from any of my machinist friends,
so that is likely to be a solution of last resort.

Question 3 has to do with the 1920s chair. It has a cane seat (broken
and must be replaced) and a leather padded back. The leather is in
reasonably good shape, with no tears or holes, but is very dried out
and I want to condition it before this chair goes back into service.
Anyone have any recommendations on what to use on the leather?

Neetsfoot oil or connolly hide food Clean well with Lexol leather
cleaner first. The connolly hide food is likely the best solution.

So far I have suggestions for neetsfoot oil, mink oil and the connolly
hide food (never heard of that one, so don't know where to get it
around here so I'll have to look around. Horse place maybe?). For
pre-cleaning I have suggestions for Lexol and Murphy oil soap.

I am hoping to get started on the 20's chair soon - it just looks too
neat to leave as is. The 1898 one is just a glue-up, so should have it
back in service in a few days. The caster problems are going to be
problems. I'd hate to have to pay machine shop rates for something
like that - probably run $20+ each easily - but the cheap ones that
come with the casters are definitely too weak for the job.

I was looking at some plate mounted casters today and they seem much
stronger - but they are also not sized to fit the chair feet.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:12:41 -0400, Nova wrote:

Nova wrote:

Tim Douglass wrote:

I have in my possession 3 old swivel desk chairs. one dates to the
1940s, I think, another to the late '20s and the third is documented
to 1898. They are all in mostly good condition with a few notable
issues. The biggest issues is with casters, since every type of caster
I have tried that looks even remotely appropriate falls apart after
only a few months in use. Normally what happens is that the cheap
metal socket that goes into the leg deforms and the casters start
leaning, from there the ball bearings for the swivel quickly
deteriorate and the caster is worthless. This is even with casters
supposedly rated at 200 lbs. I have tried every source I could find
for something reasonable, but the only ones I can find that look solid
are rather modernistic in design - chrome and clear plastic. Does
anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this short of just
buying the casters by the gross and replacing them every couple of
months?


These look like they're high quality without looking modern:

http://www.vandykes.com/product/2045...casters-1-1-4-



Never mind, I just noticed the part about, "Recommended for decorative
or stationary purposes only."

That's the problem with most of the decorative casters that look
right, they just aren't built for a 250lb guy to roll around on all
day. Virtually none of the casters that look like chair casters have a
weight rating over 75lbs ea. and that is, if you read the fine print,
"when used in stationary applications".

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:29:53 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:


http://www.kennedyhardware.com/casters/

That's one I haven't seen before. The casters there may work better
because they seem to be more directly under the stem than most. When
the caster is offset like most of them are they tend to put too much
torque on the sockets. I'll see what these do.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Oct 15, 7:54*pm, Tim Douglass wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:29:53 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:

http://www.kennedyhardware.com/casters/

That's one I haven't seen before. The casters there may work better
because they seem to be more directly under the stem than most. When
the caster is offset like most of them are they tend to put too much
torque on the sockets. I'll see what these do.

Right with your analysis. That offset would be called rake in a
bicycle fork, and it aids in turning/steering. If the wheel is
directly under the stem the caster is just as likely to drag as to
pivot and roll - bad thing on a wood floor, and not good for the chair
either. Try to find a caster with just a bit of offset.

As far as the glue for the seat, why not use standard carpenter's
glue? It's the easiest to work with, plenty strong and has been
around for probably fifty or sixty years, and let's face it, you're
not doing a museum restoration.

Lexol is pretty much the standard, but you probably don't have to go
out and buy anything. Roll your own.
http://www.bhg.com/decorating/lesson...urniture-care/

R

In ,
Tim Douglass spewed forth:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 22:46:55 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:58:52 -0700, Tim Douglass
wrote:

I have in my possession 3 old swivel desk chairs. one dates to the
1940s, I think, another to the late '20s and the third is documented
to 1898. They are all in mostly good condition with a few notable
issues. The biggest issues is with casters, since every type of
caster I have tried that looks even remotely appropriate falls
apart after only a few months in use. Normally what happens is that
the cheap metal socket that goes into the leg deforms and the
casters start leaning, from there the ball bearings for the swivel
quickly deteriorate and the caster is worthless. This is even with
casters supposedly rated at 200 lbs. I have tried every source I
could find for something reasonable, but the only ones I can find
that look solid are rather modernistic in design - chrome and clear
plastic. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to deal with this
short of just buying the casters by the gross and replacing them
every couple of months?

If it is the metal inserts that are causing the problem, get a
machinist friend to rurn out a set of good thick ones that won't
deform and install the best caster you can find that looks good.

Yeah, I think the inserts are the real culprit, but I'm not sure what
to do about it. They are tapered (which is why they waller out the
hole) so you can't make them fit snugly and they have to have some
spring to them so that they grab the stem of the caster. At the
moment I live about 400 miles away from any of my machinist friends,
so that is likely to be a solution of last resort.

yes you can make them fit snugly and they have to, to work properly.
the taper has nothing to do with it
The holes have obviuosly wallered out to much and need to be filled and
redrilled.
You will not find a antique type caster that will hold up, most are for
decoration only.
For daily use, try these, The Regency
http://www.ou****ercatalogs.com/lg_d...aster/page/164
I've installed hundreds of these and have never experienced the problems
your describing

wrote:

Could use a forstner bit to enlarge the hole, glue in a good
hardwood
dowel, and start over, or just fill it with a "filled epoxy". For a
"filled epoxy" I'd use hardwood sawdust (or better yet, "wood flour"
made from hardwood and a #40 belt sander) and slow epoxy resin.

Right idea, BUT wrong filler.

Saw dust or wood flour simply soak up resin, but add no strength.

Use micro-balloons for filler.

They are low cost and the epoxy likes them.

An alternate is to buy fairing putty such as:

http://www.systemthree.com/p_st_quikfair.asp

I'd probably drill a hole with a 1" forstner bit the length of the
metal insert + 1/4".

Fill hole in two (2) passes.

Anything more than about 3/4" thick pour has a chance of "kicking"
since curing is an exothermic process.

NBD other than you lose some material and re-drilling hole to clean
out is a PITA.

DAMHIKT.

Correctly done, resulting repair will be "strong like bull".

Have fun.

Lew

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:35:29 -0500, "ChairMan" wrote:


yes you can make them fit snugly and they have to, to work properly.
the taper has nothing to do with it
The holes have obviuosly wallered out to much and need to be filled and
redrilled.
You will not find a antique type caster that will hold up, most are for
decoration only.
For daily use, try these, The Regency
http://www.ou****ercatalogs.com/lg_d...aster/page/164
I've installed hundreds of these and have never experienced the problems
your describing

Aha! If you look at those pictures the "friction ring stem" is what I
want. All I have been able to get in the past is the "gripneck stem",
which has a tapered socket, so your hole with parallel sides has this
tapered socket in it where all the torque of the load is on the part
where the socket nips in to grab the top of the stem. There is no way
to support to top of that socket, so it deforms. The friction ring
stem has parallel sides and the socket is supported by the wood at the
top of the stem where the side load is greatest. I'm going to order
some of those and see how they work.

And yes, the holes have been re-drilled and filled every time I've
replaced the casters - usually with cross-grain hard maple dowels that
I've turned myself. The holes right now are a rather tight fit for the
3/8" cheap sockets, but I know they won't last. Those from Ou****er
look like they will.

Thanks for the tip!

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Tim Douglass wrote:
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:35:29 -0500, "ChairMan" wrote:


yes you can make them fit snugly and they have to, to work properly.
the taper has nothing to do with it
The holes have obviuosly wallered out to much and need to be filled
and redrilled.
You will not find a antique type caster that will hold up, most are
for decoration only.
For daily use, try these, The Regency
http://www.ou****ercatalogs.com/lg_d...aster/page/164
I've installed hundreds of these and have never experienced the
problems your describing

Aha! If you look at those pictures the "friction ring stem" is what I
want. All I have been able to get in the past is the "gripneck stem",
which has a tapered socket, so your hole with parallel sides has this
tapered socket in it where all the torque of the load is on the part
where the socket nips in to grab the top of the stem. There is no way
to support to top of that socket, so it deforms. The friction ring
stem has parallel sides and the socket is supported by the wood at the
top of the stem where the side load is greatest. I'm going to order
some of those and see how they work.

One "gotcha" (maybe)...

I've used a number of casters of that type (not from posted URL). I like
the (relatively) soft ball because our soil is sand and the soft ball is
kinder to our floors. The problem I have had is that the stem was punch
fastened to the caster plate and ultimately it and the plate loosen
sufficiently to spew ball bearings all over the place. I hope these are
better secured because I need a bunch too.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:43:57 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

One "gotcha" (maybe)...

I've used a number of casters of that type (not from posted URL). I like
the (relatively) soft ball because our soil is sand and the soft ball is
kinder to our floors. The problem I have had is that the stem was punch
fastened to the caster plate and ultimately it and the plate loosen
sufficiently to spew ball bearings all over the place. I hope these are
better secured because I need a bunch too.

Yeah, that's another problem with the cheap casters. What really
torques me is that I have a 1950's metal (think military style) desk
chair that still has the original casters. It has been used so much
that the aluminum base is wearing out, but the casters are still good!
Why can't I buy something that good off the shelf? (besides the
obvious conspiracy thing)

I have always considered the caster plate deformation to be something
of a side effect of the whole wobbly stem thing - in that if the stem
is actually held solidly there doesn't seem to be the same deformation
problems with the caster plate. When the stem is at an angle because
the socket has failed it puts much more side loading on that punch
fastened connection.

My wife suggested that the casters would last better if I lost about
50 lbs, but that is clearly un unworkable solution! ;-)

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Definition of a teenager: God's punishment for enjoying sex.

On Oct 16, 11:30*am, Tim Douglass wrote:

My wife suggested that the casters would last better if I lost about
50 lbs, but that is clearly an unworkable solution! ;-)

It's not unworkable, just unrealistic.

R