As I mentioned in earlier post about moistening wood before gluing. All of
you were correct in replies. I took the items to a friend to thickness sand.
He dropped one and it fell apart at the glue joints. So much for my bright
idea. I learn a lot from this group, thanks. Warren

WW wrote:
As I mentioned in earlier post about moistening wood before gluing. All of
you were correct in replies. I took the items to a friend to thickness sand.
He dropped one and it fell apart at the glue joints. So much for my bright
idea. I learn a lot from this group, thanks. Warren



I'm the same way, Warren. I've learned more little snippets from reading
this group than I care to count. I suck up to the gods of the wreck from
time to time, and this seems as good a time as any to thank everyone
here for steering me, either consciously or buried in a post about
something else, in a better direction than I might have gone on my own.

I'm not going to get into names, but there are a few here who
consistently and patiently explain things on a text-only medium that has
made my forays into the shop either more efficient, more fun or more safe.

For the most part, it's the pros or semi-pros who have the wealth of
experience to put things in a more realistic perspective. But there are
times when there's someone with as little experience as me who just
seems to have the right answer.

And for all of that, I'm grateful that I found this group.

And BTW Warren. It's sure nice to see someone say that they made a
mistake and own up to it.

Tanus

WW wrote:
As I mentioned in earlier post about moistening wood before gluing.
All of you were correct in replies. I took the items to a friend to
thickness sand. He dropped one and it fell apart at the glue joints.
So much for my bright idea. I learn a lot from this group, thanks. Warren



I'm not sure where you came up with the idea in the first place. Maybe
it was planted in your head by hearing a correct idea and it got garbled
up in the memory banks, as often happens to me.

In any case, I could see someone offering the advise to wet the gluing
surfaces of the wood, then "let dry" before applying glue. This would
act to open up the pores a bit and possibly help the wood soak up the glue.

I'm not saying it's a correct theory or practice... just saying I could
believe someone might offer that advice.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
WW wrote:
As I mentioned in earlier post about moistening wood before gluing. All
of you were correct in replies. I took the items to a friend to
thickness sand. He dropped one and it fell apart at the glue joints. So
much for my bright idea. I learn a lot from this group, thanks. Warren



I'm not sure where you came up with the idea in the first place. Maybe
it was planted in your head by hearing a correct idea and it got garbled
up in the memory banks, as often happens to me.

In any case, I could see someone offering the advise to wet the gluing
surfaces of the wood, then "let dry" before applying glue. This would
act to open up the pores a bit and possibly help the wood soak up the
glue.

I'm not saying it's a correct theory or practice... just saying I could
believe someone might offer that advice.

Joint and surface prep are much more important to strength than the minimal
diluting that surface moisture might have. Proper clamping and sufficient
cure time also makes a difference. (But, to forestall further angst and
squawking, it's certainly possible that the surface moisture interfered with
the glue where it counts most, at the wood surface and just slightly below.
I would still suspect inadequate surface prep and clamping first before
buying in so easily on not tampering with the magic voodoo that comes in the
glue bottle.)

"-MIKE-" wrote in message
...
WW wrote:
As I mentioned in earlier post about moistening wood before gluing. All
of you were correct in replies. I took the items to a friend to
thickness sand. He dropped one and it fell apart at the glue joints. So
much for my bright idea. I learn a lot from this group, thanks. Warren



I'm not sure where you came up with the idea in the first place. Maybe
it was planted in your head by hearing a correct idea and it got garbled
up in the memory banks, as often happens to me.

In any case, I could see someone offering the advise to wet the gluing
surfaces of the wood, then "let dry" before applying glue. This would
act to open up the pores a bit and possibly help the wood soak up the
glue.

I'm not saying it's a correct theory or practice... just saying I could
believe someone might offer that advice.


Yeah the opening the pores up thing IMHO does not hold water either. You
get a better bond on wood that is shiney smooth and no open grain. Take
maple for example. I don't believe that the typical wood glue needs a
"tooth" to bond well. Typically the more glue there is in a joint, in
excess, the more likely it is to fail. There is really no such thing as
glue starvation in a joint unless there is not enough glue to cover the
surfaves in the first place. Squeezing the heck out of a joint with clamps
is not a problem providing there is glue on all surfaces of the joint, and
those surfaces touch each outher, regardless of how thin the lglue line is.

On Jul 21, 6:53*pm, "Leon" wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message

...





WW wrote:
As I mentioned in earlier post about moistening wood before gluing. All
of you were correct in replies. I took the items to a friend to
thickness sand. He dropped one and it fell apart at the glue joints. So
much for my bright idea. I learn a lot from this group, thanks. Warren

I'm not sure where you came up with the idea in the first place. Maybe
it was planted in your head by hearing a correct idea and it got garbled
up in the memory banks, as often happens to me.

In any case, I could see someone offering the advise to wet the gluing
surfaces of the wood, then "let dry" before applying glue. This would
act to open up the pores a bit and possibly help the wood soak up the
glue.

I'm not saying it's a correct theory or practice... just saying I could
believe someone might offer that advice.

Yeah the opening the pores up thing IMHO does not hold water either. *You
get a better bond on wood that is shiney smooth and no open grain. *Take
maple for example. *I don't believe that the typical wood glue needs a
"tooth" to bond well. *Typically the more glue there is in a joint, in
excess, the more likely it is to fail. *There is really no such thing as
glue starvation in a joint unless there is not enough glue to cover the
surfaves in the first place. *Squeezing the heck out of a joint with clamps
is not a problem providing there is glue on all surfaces of the joint, and
those surfaces touch each outher, regardless of how thin the lglue line is.

Would that include case-hardened maple direct from a jointer? Because
at a door manufacturing company that I frequent, they scuff and
moisten the edges before making the panels for the raised panels. They
do let them dry throughly before gluing. They want tooth.

On Jul 21, 4:34*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Jul 21, 6:53*pm, "Leon" wrote:



"-MIKE-" wrote in message

...

WW wrote:
As I mentioned in earlier post about moistening wood before gluing. All
of you were correct in replies. I took the items to a friend to
thickness sand. He dropped one and it fell apart at the glue joints.. So
much for my bright idea. I learn a lot from this group, thanks. Warren

I'm not sure where you came up with the idea in the first place. Maybe
it was planted in your head by hearing a correct idea and it got garbled
up in the memory banks, as often happens to me.

In any case, I could see someone offering the advise to wet the gluing
surfaces of the wood, then "let dry" before applying glue. This would
act to open up the pores a bit and possibly help the wood soak up the
glue.

I'm not saying it's a correct theory or practice... just saying I could
believe someone might offer that advice.

Yeah the opening the pores up thing IMHO does not hold water either. *You
get a better bond on wood that is shiney smooth and no open grain. *Take
maple for example. *I don't believe that the typical wood glue needs a
"tooth" to bond well. *Typically the more glue there is in a joint, in
excess, the more likely it is to fail. *There is really no such thing as
glue starvation in a joint unless there is not enough glue to cover the
surfaves in the first place. *Squeezing the heck out of a joint with clamps
is not a problem providing there is glue on all surfaces of the joint, and
those surfaces touch each outher, regardless of how thin the lglue line is.

Would that include case-hardened maple direct from a jointer? Because
at a door manufacturing company that I frequent, they scuff and
moisten the edges before making the panels for the raised panels. They
do let them dry throughly before gluing. They want tooth.

But do they use PVA or some other kind of glue that benefits from
tooth?

Luigi

"Robatoy" wrote in message
...
On Jul 21, 6:53 pm, "Leon" wrote:
"-MIKE-" wrote in message

...




Would that include case-hardened maple direct from a jointer? Because
at a door manufacturing company that I frequent, they scuff and
moisten the edges before making the panels for the raised panels. They
do let them dry throughly before gluing. They want tooth.


Lets just say that I have never had a failure and my maple surfaces are
often burnished.

On Jul 21, 8:24*pm, Luigi Zanasi wrote:
On Jul 21, 4:34*pm, Robatoy wrote:





On Jul 21, 6:53*pm, "Leon" wrote:

"-MIKE-" wrote in message

...

WW wrote:
As I mentioned in earlier post about moistening wood before gluing. All
of you were correct in replies. I took the items to a friend to
thickness sand. He dropped one and it fell apart at the glue joints. So
much for my bright idea. I learn a lot from this group, thanks. Warren

I'm not sure where you came up with the idea in the first place. Maybe
it was planted in your head by hearing a correct idea and it got garbled
up in the memory banks, as often happens to me.

In any case, I could see someone offering the advise to wet the gluing
surfaces of the wood, then "let dry" before applying glue. This would
act to open up the pores a bit and possibly help the wood soak up the
glue.

I'm not saying it's a correct theory or practice... just saying I could
believe someone might offer that advice.

Yeah the opening the pores up thing IMHO does not hold water either. *You
get a better bond on wood that is shiney smooth and no open grain. *Take
maple for example. *I don't believe that the typical wood glue needs a
"tooth" to bond well. *Typically the more glue there is in a joint, in
excess, the more likely it is to fail. *There is really no such thing as
glue starvation in a joint unless there is not enough glue to cover the
surfaves in the first place. *Squeezing the heck out of a joint with clamps
is not a problem providing there is glue on all surfaces of the joint, and
those surfaces touch each outher, regardless of how thin the lglue line is.

Would that include case-hardened maple direct from a jointer? Because
at a door manufacturing company that I frequent, they scuff and
moisten the edges before making the panels for the raised panels. They
do let them dry throughly before gluing. They want tooth.

But do they use PVA or some other kind of glue that benefits from
tooth?

Luigi

Resorcinol of course. *S*

"Robatoy" wrote:

Resorcinol of course. *S*

And don't forget epoxy.

Lew

On Jul 21, 11:01*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote:
Resorcinol of course. *S*

And don't forget epoxy.

Lew

You won't LET me forget epoxy. G

On Jul 21, 8:17*pm, Robatoy wrote:
On Jul 21, 11:01*pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"Robatoy" wrote:
Resorcinol of course. *S*

And don't forget epoxy.

Lew

You won't LET me forget epoxy. G

Lew won't let ANYONE forget epoxy, ever! :-)

Luigi

"Leon" wrote in message
...

There is really no such thing as glue starvation in a joint unless there
is not enough glue to cover the surfaves in the first place. Squeezing
the heck out of a joint with clamps is not a problem providing there is
glue on all surfaces of the joint, and those surfaces touch each outher,
regardless of how thin the lglue line is.


According to Franklin, clamping pressure should be 175-250 psi for
hardwoods. No worry of over clamping.

Robatoy wrote:
On Jul 21, 11:01 pm, "Lew Hodgett" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote:
Resorcinol of course. *S*
And don't forget epoxy.

Lew

You won't LET me forget epoxy. G

Or let anyone else, for that matter. And that's a good thing.

Tanus

CW wrote:
"Leon" wrote in message
...
There is really no such thing as glue starvation in a joint unless there
is not enough glue to cover the surfaves in the first place. Squeezing
the heck out of a joint with clamps is not a problem providing there is
glue on all surfaces of the joint, and those surfaces touch each outher,
regardless of how thin the lglue line is.


According to Franklin, clamping pressure should be 175-250 psi for
hardwoods. No worry of over clamping.


Fine Woodworking did a glue comparison test a little while back, and
found that for most glues the tighter the better. They also found that
for most glues, especially the most commonly-used PVA's, that there was
also no glue starvation problem, as noted above.

After reading the article, I changed my clamping technique to clamping
very, very tight on most joints, and have achieved greater success as a
result. The only glue that I use that I don't worry about clamping too
tight is epoxy, because epoxy has superior gap-filling properties.

scritch wrote:

Fine Woodworking did a glue comparison test a little while back, and
found that for most glues the tighter the better. They also found that
for most glues, especially the most commonly-used PVA's, that there was
also no glue starvation problem, as noted above.

After reading the article, I changed my clamping technique to clamping
very, very tight on most joints, and have achieved greater success as a
result. The only glue that I use that I don't worry about clamping too
tight is epoxy, because epoxy has superior gap-filling properties.

When I first started WWing, I clamped things as tight as I could. No
failures. Later, I read that was wrong, and you shouldn't over clamp.
I tried less clamping pressure and you guessed it, no failures. Now,
they seem to want more pressure... Personally, I quit worrying about it
(never really worried much anyway) and clamp until no gaps, and maybe a
tad more... somewhere between 10 psi and 1,0000 psi. Not sure, I don't
measure it:-)

For me, the most important issue for ME to worry about is squeeze out.
I don't want much (any), and I don't want a dry joint. If you know
what you are doing, you get little squeeze out (unlike Norm and Scott)
and no dry joints. It just ain't that hard. Well, it might be hard if
you are on TV, not sure about that...

--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com

"Jack Stein" wrote in message
...
scritch wrote:



When I first started WWing, I clamped things as tight as I could. No
failures. Later, I read that was wrong, and you shouldn't over clamp. I
tried less clamping pressure and you guessed it, no failures. Now, they
seem to want more pressure... Personally, I quit worrying about it (never
really worried much anyway) and clamp until no gaps, and maybe a tad
more... somewhere between 10 psi and 1,0000 psi. Not sure, I don't
measure it:-)

For me, the most important issue for ME to worry about is squeeze out. I
don't want much (any), and I don't want a dry joint. If you know what
you are doing, you get little squeeze out (unlike Norm and Scott) and no
dry joints. It just ain't that hard. Well, it might be hard if you are
on TV, not sure about that...


Clamping tighter helps on marginally prepaired joints, those that may not
close when simply slid up next to each other and helps to prevent the joint
from slipping if you move the assembly around shortly after clamping.
Masking makes a great clamp if the surfaces are properly prepaired.
Ths only problem I have witnessed from clamping too tightly is indentations
where the clamping surfaces come in contact with the wood.