Last evening one of the news stations was doing street interviews. I
saw a relatively intelligent and affluent young man compare the death
of Michael Jackson with the death of a president.

This morning all of the news stations are running seemingly full time
coverage on this national tragedy. One broadcasts appeared to be from
the senate floor.

All of the internet news and hub pages are plastered with his picture
and stories of the untimely death.

They are waiting on toxicology reports to see what he had in his body
when he died.

Granted, as a young man, Michael Jackson was a stand-out performer
from a very talented family. Then we watched him slowly go nuts. He
changed his color. He destroyed his looks with countless body
modifications. At one time he appeared to be changing his sexual
appearance. He hung his infant son over a balcony rail by one leg.
He became a nearly recluse nut that built a fairly-land to attract
children.

What in the hell is wrong with a society that regards such a creature
as a fallen hero?

Good Grief!

RonB

On Jun 26, 12:22*pm, RonB wrote:
Last evening one of the news stations was doing street interviews. *I
saw a relatively intelligent and affluent young man compare the death
of Michael Jackson with the death of a president.

This morning all of the news stations are running seemingly full time
coverage on this national tragedy. *One broadcasts appeared to be from
the senate floor.

All of the internet news and hub pages are plastered with his picture
and stories of the untimely death.

They are waiting on toxicology reports to see what he had in his body
when he died.

Granted, as a young man, Michael Jackson was a stand-out performer
from a very talented family. *Then we watched him slowly go nuts. *He
changed his color. *He destroyed his looks with countless body
modifications. *At one time he appeared to be changing his sexual
appearance. *He hung his infant son over a balcony rail by one leg.
He became a nearly recluse nut that built a fairly-land to attract
children.

What in the hell is wrong with a society that regards such a creature
as a fallen hero?

Good Grief!

RonB

We slow down and gawk at the scene of an accident. Human nature to be
spellbound by the bizarre.
Hence the joke:
Q: How many Torontonians does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: 400,000. One the change the bulb, 399,999 to slow down and take a
look at the old bulb.

Robatoy wrote:
On Jun 26, 12:22 pm, RonB wrote:
Last evening one of the news stations was doing street interviews. I
saw a relatively intelligent and affluent young man compare the death
of Michael Jackson with the death of a president.

This morning all of the news stations are running seemingly full time
coverage on this national tragedy. One broadcasts appeared to be from
the senate floor.

All of the internet news and hub pages are plastered with his picture
and stories of the untimely death.

They are waiting on toxicology reports to see what he had in his body
when he died.

Granted, as a young man, Michael Jackson was a stand-out performer
from a very talented family. Then we watched him slowly go nuts. He
changed his color. He destroyed his looks with countless body
modifications. At one time he appeared to be changing his sexual
appearance. He hung his infant son over a balcony rail by one leg.
He became a nearly recluse nut that built a fairly-land to attract
children.

What in the hell is wrong with a society that regards such a creature
as a fallen hero?

Good Grief!

RonB

We slow down and gawk at the scene of an accident. Human nature to be
spellbound by the bizarre.
Hence the joke:
Q: How many Torontonians does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: 400,000. One the change the bulb, 399,999 to slow down and take a
look at the old bulb.

There weren't nearly that many people there.
;-)

--
Froz...

RonB wrote:

Granted, as a young man, Michael Jackson was a stand-out performer
from a very talented family. Then we watched him slowly go nuts. He
changed his color. He destroyed his looks with countless body
modifications. At one time he appeared to be changing his sexual
appearance. He hung his infant son over a balcony rail by one leg.

Ummm, no, actually he didn't. That clip has been on TV about a thousand
times since yesterday. While Jackson's act was incredibly reckless and
revealed more about what a messed-up freak he was than we already knew, he
had both hands on the kid's body, he wasn't dangling him by a leg.

He became a nearly recluse nut that built a fairly-land to attract
children.

What in the hell is wrong with a society that regards such a creature
as a fallen hero?

Good Grief!

RonB

Hopefully most of the people mourning Jackson are thinking of when he was
undeniably a brilliant entertainer. Not my cup of tea, but it would be
silly to pretend he wasn't extremely good as a performer. Too bad he lost
his mind along the way of course.

In article , "DGDevin" wrote:

Hopefully most of the people mourning Jackson are thinking of when he was
undeniably a brilliant entertainer. Not my cup of tea, but it would be
silly to pretend he wasn't extremely good as a performer.

Right, but so what? Why should an entertainer be regarded as a hero? To me,
a hero is the cop who puts his life on the line every day to guard the safety
of people he will never meet. The firefighter who runs into a burning building
when you or I would run out. The nurse who works herself ragged every day
caring for strangers. The EMT working frantically to stabilize an accident
victim in the desperate hope of keeping him alive long enough to reach the ER.
The retired businessman volunteering at the local library, teaching children
to read. The soldier. The blood donor. The teacher. The hospice volunteer.

Those are the *real* heros. Not Michael Jackson.

Too bad he lost
his mind along the way of course.

Indeed, but again -- so what? There are some 15 to 20 million other people in
this country with some form of serious mental illness, whose stories are just
as tragic. They will never be celebrated by the news media, nor mourned by
strangers, but their lives are no less important. I watched, over two years,
as an accelerating descent into paranoia turned a once pleasant and outgoing
colleague into a surly and suspicious brute. She is equally a child of God
with Michael Jackson, and therefore of no less value, yet her story will never
be told by CNN, nor, when she passes, will the local newspaper proclaim above
the fold (as it did today) "We Have Lost an Icon".

Since his death, a credit, I've heard several times, incorrectly
attributed to him, is the creation of the music video, now a standard
in the music industry. It was the Beatles that created the first
music video and it was Paul McCartney that recommended, to Michael
Jackson, to start making them for his own music.

Sonny

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:01:48 -0700, "DGDevin"
wrote:


Hopefully most of the people mourning Jackson are thinking of when he was
undeniably a brilliant entertainer. Not my cup of tea, but it would be
silly to pretend he wasn't extremely good as a performer. Too bad he lost
his mind along the way of course.


In my opinion I say good riddance to the child-molesting pervert!

G.S.

Sonny wrote:
Since his death, a credit, I've heard several times, incorrectly
attributed to him, is the creation of the music video, now a standard
in the music industry. It was the Beatles that created the first
music video and it was Paul McCartney that recommended, to Michael
Jackson, to start making them for his own music.

Sonny
Interesting history of music videos at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_v....E2.80.931950s.
I remember seeing a Cab Calloway video in a theater in the 1940s sometime.
mahalo,
jo4hn

Doug Miller wrote:

Hopefully most of the people mourning Jackson are thinking of when
he was undeniably a brilliant entertainer. Not my cup of tea, but
it would be silly to pretend he wasn't extremely good as a performer.

Right, but so what? Why should an entertainer be regarded as a hero?

No offense, but I don't see anyone but you using the word hero in reference
to Michael Jackson.

People get silly over famous actors, singers and so on, especially if they
were of a certain age when that artist's work was popular. Look at how
millions of people reacted when John Lennon died, or Elvis, or Jerry Garcia,
or Pavarotti (whose funeral was a national event in Italy). If you grew up
listening to a performer's music you're going to have an emotional
attachment to some degree, it's human nature. As to the deaths of famous
people getting more press coverage than regular folks, well duh. Surely
this isn't the first time you've noted this phenomenon?

Of course part of this is the former profession of journalism (now a branch
of the entertainment industry) going into a feeding frenzy just as they do
when a celebrity is involved in almost anything, must less dying
unexpectedly. Is it a bit nauseating? Sure, but it's been that way for
awhile now, it isn't a situation unique to Michael Jackson.

jo4hn wrote:
Sonny wrote:
Since his death, a credit, I've heard several times, incorrectly
attributed to him, is the creation of the music video, now a standard
in the music industry. It was the Beatles that created the first
music video and it was Paul McCartney that recommended, to Michael
Jackson, to start making them for his own music.

Sonny
Interesting history of music videos at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_v....E2.80.931950s.
I remember seeing a Cab Calloway video in a theater in the 1940s sometime.
mahalo,
jo4hn

Here is a 1932 "music video" of sorts ... three middle class white girls
from NOLA singing with "soul", before it was invented:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Afn3Z-BWI

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Gordon Shumway" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:01:48 -0700, "DGDevin"

In my opinion I say good riddance to the child-molesting pervert!

I agree. there is a lot wrong with a country where you can commit crimes and
pay your way out of it and a lot wrong with a society which says it doesn't
matter if you have a thing for sharing your bed with children as long as you
are a good entertainer. A lot wrong also with a people who can see how fame,
celebrity and the entertainment business wrecks lives but hey, it's
entertaining to watch. The whole media spectacle of looking back at the
great MJ makes me sick.

Tim w

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "DGDevin"
wrote:

Hopefully most of the people mourning Jackson are thinking of when he was
undeniably a brilliant entertainer. Not my cup of tea, but it would be
silly to pretend he wasn't extremely good as a performer.

Right, but so what?

So, tell the truth if you are going to bad mouth some one.

"RonB" wrote in message
...
Last evening one of the news stations was doing street interviews. I
saw a relatively intelligent and affluent young man compare the death
of Michael Jackson with the death of a president.

This morning all of the news stations are running seemingly full time
coverage on this national tragedy. One broadcasts appeared to be from
the senate floor.

All of the internet news and hub pages are plastered with his picture
and stories of the untimely death.

They are waiting on toxicology reports to see what he had in his body
when he died.

Granted, as a young man, Michael Jackson was a stand-out performer
from a very talented family. Then we watched him slowly go nuts. He
changed his color. He destroyed his looks with countless body
modifications. At one time he appeared to be changing his sexual
appearance. He hung his infant son over a balcony rail by one leg.
He became a nearly recluse nut that built a fairly-land to attract
children.

What in the hell is wrong with a society that regards such a creature
as a fallen hero?


I suspect that like the details you mentioned above about him danglening his
son by one leg, society does not really care about the truth any more and
will spew any thing to get one's attention. If you report the truth he
probably does not look quite so bad.


I did not care for his antics but he was a pretty good entertainer.

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:22:28 -0700 (PDT), RonB
wrote:

Last evening one of the news stations was doing street interviews. I
saw a relatively intelligent and affluent young man compare the death
of Michael Jackson with the death of a president.

This morning all of the news stations are running seemingly full time
coverage on this national tragedy. One broadcasts appeared to be from
the senate floor.

All of the internet news and hub pages are plastered with his picture
and stories of the untimely death.

They are waiting on toxicology reports to see what he had in his body
when he died.

Granted, as a young man, Michael Jackson was a stand-out performer
from a very talented family. Then we watched him slowly go nuts. He
changed his color. He destroyed his looks with countless body
modifications. At one time he appeared to be changing his sexual
appearance. He hung his infant son over a balcony rail by one leg.
He became a nearly recluse nut that built a fairly-land to attract
children.

What in the hell is wrong with a society that regards such a creature
as a fallen hero?

Good Grief!

RonB


I don't care what Michael did to his body, nor do I care about all the
personal problems he had. But I do like his music, he was
exceptionally talented at that. If you have nothing good to say about
the dead, say nothing at all.

I don't care what Michael did to his body, nor do I care about all the
personal problems he had. *But I do like his music, he was
exceptionally talented at that. *If you have nothing good to say about
the dead, say nothing at all.

I think we have drifted from my original post. I don't dispute he was
an exceptional talent. In fact I have been listening to his earlier
stuff on the shop radio today and he was amazing, when younger.

But he became weird and had a problem with young children. A pervert
who bought his way out of jail.

The biggest shocker was the gentleman who compared his death with the
death of a president. Clearly he was not old enough to realize the
effect of a president's death on a nation.
I am old enough and Mr. Jackson's death will be forgotten in a few
weeks. Those who lived through the Kennedy assassination will not
forget.

I was sitting in Senior History when our teacher told us the news. At
6'-4" he was crying.

RonB

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "DGDevin"
wrote:

Hopefully most of the people mourning Jackson are thinking of when he was
undeniably a brilliant entertainer. Not my cup of tea, but it would be
silly to pretend he wasn't extremely good as a performer.

Right, but so what? Why should an entertainer be regarded as a hero? To
me,
a hero is the cop who puts his life on the line every day to guard the
safety
of people he will never meet. The firefighter who runs into a burning
building
when you or I would run out. The nurse who works herself ragged every day
caring for strangers. The EMT working frantically to stabilize an accident
victim in the desperate hope of keeping him alive long enough to reach the
ER.
The retired businessman volunteering at the local library, teaching
children
to read. The soldier. The blood donor. The teacher. The hospice volunteer.

Those are the *real* heros. Not Michael Jackson.

Too bad he lost
his mind along the way of course.

Indeed, but again -- so what? There are some 15 to 20 million other people
in
this country with some form of serious mental illness, whose stories are
just
as tragic. They will never be celebrated by the news media, nor mourned by
strangers, but their lives are no less important. I watched, over two
years,
as an accelerating descent into paranoia turned a once pleasant and
outgoing
colleague into a surly and suspicious brute. She is equally a child of God
with Michael Jackson, and therefore of no less value, yet her story will
never
be told by CNN, nor, when she passes, will the local newspaper proclaim
above
the fold (as it did today) "We Have Lost an Icon".

Doug, that was brilliantly stated, I hope you don't mind, I will use your
words for rebuttal purposes when confronting those who worship him as a God.
Of course, credit will go to the guy on the newsgroup.

Thanks

Swingman wrote:
jo4hn wrote:
Sonny wrote:
Since his death, a credit, I've heard several times, incorrectly
attributed to him, is the creation of the music video, now a standard
in the music industry. It was the Beatles that created the first
music video and it was Paul McCartney that recommended, to Michael
Jackson, to start making them for his own music.

Sonny
Interesting history of music videos at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_v....E2.80.931950s.
I remember seeing a Cab Calloway video in a theater in the 1940s
sometime.
mahalo,
jo4hn

Here is a 1932 "music video" of sorts ... three middle class white girls
from NOLA singing with "soul", before it was invented:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Afn3Z-BWI

Good choice. The Boswells were quite popular before the Andrews'.
Check out the videos and look here for a quick bio:
http://www.singers.com/jazz/vintage/boswell.html

On Jun 26, 5:33*pm, Swingman wrote:
jo4hn wrote:
Sonny wrote:
Since his death, a credit, I've heard several times, incorrectly
attributed to him, is the creation of the music video, now a standard
in the music industry. *It was the Beatles that created the first
music video and it was Paul McCartney that recommended, to Michael
Jackson, to start making them for his own music.

Sonny
Interesting history of music videos at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_v...910s.E2.80.931.....
*I remember seeing a Cab Calloway video in a theater in the 1940s sometime.
* * mahalo,
* * jo4hn

Here is a 1932 "music video" of sorts ... three middle class white girls
from NOLA singing with "soul", before it was invented:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Afn3Z-BWI


That was AWESOME! Thanks for that.
I'm a huge fan of the Roches, Dan Hicks' Hot Licks and stuff like
that. Nothing quite like three or more women finding 'Harvey' in the
harmony.
Vocal harmonies, done right, can make the hair on my arms stand up
straight. Mostly when done with all natural women, but the guys can do
it too. Sometimes a combo, like Mammas and The Papas. (They coined
'Harvey' as that sweet thing in the attic when harmonizing voices
become one voice.)
Hollies, Peter & Gordon, Everly Brothers, CSN&Y on a good day, ....
the list is long, but it has a common thread.
What do we have now? Auto-Tune?

"Robatoy" wrote:

Hollies, Peter & Gordon, Everly Brothers, CSN&Y on a good day, ....
the list is long, but it has a common thread.
What do we have now? Auto-Tune?

Near as I can tell, the Everly Brothers had one hit in 1958 and
nothing since.

Are they still performing?

Are they still alive?

Lew

In article , "Leon" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.. .
In article , "DGDevin"
wrote:

Hopefully most of the people mourning Jackson are thinking of when he was
undeniably a brilliant entertainer. Not my cup of tea, but it would be
silly to pretend he wasn't extremely good as a performer.

Right, but so what?

So, tell the truth if you are going to bad mouth some one.


???

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote:

Hollies, Peter & Gordon, Everly Brothers, CSN&Y on a good day, ....
the list is long, but it has a common thread.
What do we have now? Auto-Tune?

Near as I can tell, the Everly Brothers had one hit in 1958 and
nothing since.


Everly Brothers --- Wake Up Little Susie
Everly Brothers --- All I Have To Do Is Dream
Everly Brothers --- Bye Bye Love
Everly Brothers --- Devoted to you
Everly Brothers --- Kathy's Clown
Everly Brothers --- Let It Be Me
Everly Brothers --- Lucille
Everly Brothers --- Til I kissed Ya
Everly Brothers --- Bird Dog

Just I few I have.

Are they still performing?

Are they still alive?

Haven't a clue...

--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://www.eternal-september.org/
http://jbstein.com

Robatoy wrote:
On Jun 26, 5:33 pm, Swingman wrote:
jo4hn wrote:
Sonny wrote:
Since his death, a credit, I've heard several times, incorrectly
attributed to him, is the creation of the music video, now a standard
in the music industry. It was the Beatles that created the first
music video and it was Paul McCartney that recommended, to Michael
Jackson, to start making them for his own music.
Sonny
Interesting history of music videos at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_v...910s.E2.80.931....
I remember seeing a Cab Calloway video in a theater in the 1940s sometime.
mahalo,
jo4hn
Here is a 1932 "music video" of sorts ... three middle class white girls
from NOLA singing with "soul", before it was invented:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Afn3Z-BWI


That was AWESOME! Thanks for that.
I'm a huge fan of the Roches, Dan Hicks' Hot Licks and stuff like
that. Nothing quite like three or more women finding 'Harvey' in the
harmony.
Vocal harmonies, done right, can make the hair on my arms stand up
straight. Mostly when done with all natural women, but the guys can do
it too. Sometimes a combo, like Mammas and The Papas. (They coined
'Harvey' as that sweet thing in the attic when harmonizing voices
become one voice.)
Hollies, Peter & Gordon, Everly Brothers, CSN&Y on a good day, ....
the list is long, but it has a common thread.
What do we have now? Auto-Tune?

If you like vocal harmonies in a men's choral setting try
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WSbq3TCcd0. Sit back, relax, and listen...
j4

jo4hn wrote:
Swingman wrote:
jo4hn wrote:
Sonny wrote:
Since his death, a credit, I've heard several times, incorrectly
attributed to him, is the creation of the music video, now a standard
in the music industry. It was the Beatles that created the first
music video and it was Paul McCartney that recommended, to Michael
Jackson, to start making them for his own music.

Sonny
Interesting history of music videos at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_v....E2.80.931950s.
I remember seeing a Cab Calloway video in a theater in the 1940s
sometime.
mahalo,
jo4hn

Here is a 1932 "music video" of sorts ... three middle class white
girls from NOLA singing with "soul", before it was invented:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Afn3Z-BWI

Good choice. The Boswells were quite popular before the Andrews'. Check
out the videos and look here for a quick bio:
http://www.singers.com/jazz/vintage/boswell.html

A friend and fellow musician was writing a book about Connie Boswell
sometime in the mid 70's. She was fortunate to have spent some time with
and interviewed Connie shortly before she died. I have been fortunate
enough to have the writer as a house guest many times since, and we
still listen to the interview/talk about little else when together.

Last I heard the book is still being worked on ... just like a musikian
to procrastinate for 30 years

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Robatoy wrote:


What do we have now? Auto-Tune?

Hey, don't knock Auto-Tune ... saved many a take in the studio, and the
only reason I was able to pinch hit on a background vocal as a LAST
resort!


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:59:33 -0700, DGDevin wrote:

People get silly over famous actors, singers and so on, especially if
they were of a certain age when that artist's work was popular. Look at
how millions of people reacted when John Lennon died, or Elvis, or Jerry
Garcia, or Pavarotti (whose funeral was a national event in Italy). If
you grew up listening to a performer's music you're going to have an
emotional attachment to some degree, it's human nature.

Guess that makes me inhuman. I can think of several singers that I
enjoyed listening to at different times in my life, but I never gave more
than shrug and a "too bad, I'll miss the music" when they died. I've
never understood the fascination with celebrities.



--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Larry Blanchard wrote:

Guess that makes me inhuman. I can think of several singers that I
enjoyed listening to at different times in my life, but I never gave
more than shrug and a "too bad, I'll miss the music" when they died.
I've never understood the fascination with celebrities.

But it can go beyond "enjoyed listening to" for many people, and celebrity
need not have anything to do with it. If the formative years of your life
were filled with the music of a particular musician or group of musicians
then it wouldn't be unusual to have a strong emotional attachment to that
music and the people who made it. At times some people take amazing comfort
or inspiration from particular music. Eddie Vedder of the band Pearl Jam
said that at a very rough time in his life the album Quadrophenia by The Who
affected him so strongly that he feels like it saved his life. It stands to
reason than an alienated youth would respond to music about a confused,
angry teenager, and that such music could have some therapeutic value.

Sure, some people take it too far and act like a famous musician is a member
of their family. And when whole industries exist to feed the celebrity
frenzy some people are subject too, well it's no wonder any idiot who can
get his/her face on TV can become rich and famous (Paris Hilton, I'm talking
to you). But on the saner side of the phenomenon are millions of people who
have so many memories of growing up listening to The Beatles or whoever that
they are genuinely saddened by the death of someone like John Lennon, or in
this case Michael Jackson. That doesn't strike me as weird or unhealthy
unless they phone in sick at work for a week because they're too upset that
their favorite musician died.

Tim W wrote:

In my opinion I say good riddance to the child-molesting pervert!

I agree. there is a lot wrong with a country where you can commit
crimes and pay your way out of it and a lot wrong with a society
which says it doesn't matter if you have a thing for sharing your bed
with children as long as you are a good entertainer.

Can you quote anyone saying that?

Although I had no use for MJ's music and considered him to be a highly
twisted individual I can still recognize that he was indeed a very good
entertainer. However I don't recall seeing anyone here or elsewhere suggest
that his musical abilities made his revolting behavior acceptable. Those
people who defend Jackson across the board seem to believe he wasn't guilty
of molesting children, but if you can cite anyone saying that they think he
did molest kids but that doesn't matter because of what a good entertainer
he was, okay, got a link?

On Jun 27, 5:48*pm, "DGDevin" wrote:

*But on the saner side of the phenomenon are millions of people who
have so many memories of growing up listening to The Beatles or whoever that
they are genuinely saddened by the death of someone like John Lennon, or in
this case Michael Jackson. *

Thin ice there, Mr Devin. Lennon and Michael Jackson in the same
sentence?

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
In article , "DGDevin"
wrote:

Hopefully most of the people mourning Jackson are thinking of when he was
undeniably a brilliant entertainer. Not my cup of tea, but it would be
silly to pretend he wasn't extremely good as a performer.

Right, but so what? Why should an entertainer be regarded as a hero? To
me,
a hero is the cop who puts his life on the line every day to guard the
safety
of people he will never meet. The firefighter who runs into a burning
building
when you or I would run out. The nurse who works herself ragged every day
caring for strangers. The EMT working frantically to stabilize an accident
victim in the desperate hope of keeping him alive long enough to reach the
ER.
The retired businessman volunteering at the local library, teaching
children
to read. The soldier. The blood donor. The teacher. The hospice volunteer.

Those are the *real* heros. Not Michael Jackson.
snipped

I believe you have hit the nail squarely on the head!
There was a letter in today's local newspaper from a woman who is undergoing
chemotherapy thanking the people that have donated blood so she might have a
better chance of surviving. Ordinary people, Real heroes.

Jack Cassidy

"Jack Cassidy" wrote:

There was a letter in today's local newspaper from a woman who is undergoing
chemotherapy thanking the people that have donated blood so she might have a
better chance of surviving. Ordinary people, Real heroes.

Yeah, but every one of those people would say, "Hero? You've got the wrong guy.
Talk to those firefighters over there."

Talk to the firefighters, they'd say "Hero? Talk to those guys in Iraq."

Talk to the guys and gals in Iraq, they'd say, "Hero? You must mean my buddy
who didn't make it."

You can't talk to him.

-- Doug

"Douglas Johnson" wrote in message
You can't talk to him.

It all comes down to perception doesn't it? And considering all the
idolizing when it comes to Michael Jackson, there's sure a whole lot of
people with really screwed up perception.

Robatoy wrote:
On Jun 27, 5:48 pm, "DGDevin" wrote:

But on the saner side of the phenomenon are millions of people who
have so many memories of growing up listening to The Beatles or
whoever that they are genuinely saddened by the death of someone
like John Lennon, or in this case Michael Jackson.

Thin ice there, Mr Devin. Lennon and Michael Jackson in the same
sentence?

Pretty easy. I, for example, have never listened to a complete song by
either Jackson or Lennon (that I know of).

I HAVE listened to all 42 of Mozart's symphonies - some more than once.

But, unlike I'll wager, the Jackson devotees, I cannot tell you Mozart's
favorite color, whether his socks match, or the brand of toothpaste he used.
My appreciation of the product does not translate to idolization of the
creator.

HeyBub wrote:
Robatoy wrote:
On Jun 27, 5:48 pm, "DGDevin" wrote:

But on the saner side of the phenomenon are millions of people who
have so many memories of growing up listening to The Beatles or
whoever that they are genuinely saddened by the death of someone
like John Lennon, or in this case Michael Jackson.

Thin ice there, Mr Devin. Lennon and Michael Jackson in the same
sentence?

Pretty easy. I, for example, have never listened to a complete song by
either Jackson or Lennon (that I know of).

I HAVE listened to all 42 of Mozart's symphonies - some more than
once.

But, unlike I'll wager, the Jackson devotees, I cannot tell you
Mozart's favorite color, whether his socks match, or the brand of
toothpaste he used. My appreciation of the product does not translate
to idolization of the creator.

Mozart used toothpaste and wore socks? I thought that stockings were the
style of the day and commercial toothpaste that had a brand didn't come
along until he had been dead for more than 100 years.

Apparently it doesn't extend to having an idea what century he lived in.

HeyBub wrote:

: But, unlike I'll wager, the Jackson devotees, I cannot tell you Mozart's
: favorite color, whether his socks match, or the brand of toothpaste he used.
: My appreciation of the product does not translate to idolization of the
: creator.

At the time Mozart was alive, he had much the same type of notoriety nd
idolization as a modern pop or rock star.

So, to complete your analogy, in a hundred years or two, people may be
listening to Jackson's work without caring all
that much about the details of his life. Sounds about right.


-- Andy Barss

HeyBub wrote:

Pretty easy. I, for example, have never listened to a complete song by
either Jackson or Lennon (that I know of).

I HAVE listened to all 42 of Mozart's symphonies - some more than
once.

I find is easy to enjoy music from Bach to Iggy & the Stooges. I believe it
was Duke Ellington who said there are only two kinds of music--good music
and bad music. IMO music is a big house, it has a lot of rooms (even if the
contents of some rooms amount to guilty pleasures). I have to feel a bit
sorry for those who can appreciate the genius of Mozart but for some reason
can't or won't do the same with John Coltrane or Pete Townshend or Johnny
Cash. Frankly there are few things more absurd than the music snob, for
some reason classical and jazz seem to produce them in large quantities.

But, unlike I'll wager, the Jackson devotees, I cannot tell you
Mozart's favorite color, whether his socks match, or the brand of
toothpaste he used. My appreciation of the product does not translate
to idolization of the creator.

That degree of worship by rabid fans is bizarre, but then depicting all fans
of a particular performer as being that intense is also a bit weird. I
wouldn't have walked across the street to hear Mr. Jackson perform, but that
doesn't mean I can't acknowledge how good he was at what he did for a
living.

Andrew Barss wrote:

HeyBub wrote:

But, unlike I'll wager, the Jackson devotees, I cannot tell you
Mozart's favorite color, whether his socks match, or the brand of
toothpaste he used. My appreciation of the product does not
translate to idolization of the creator.

At the time Mozart was alive, he had much the same type of notoriety
nd idolization as a modern pop or rock star.

So, to complete your analogy, in a hundred years or two, people may be
listening to Jackson's work without caring all
that much about the details of his life. Sounds about right.


-- Andy Barss

Heh, good one. Papa Bach had what amounted to head-cutting contests in the
manner of blues and jazz musicians in which he would humble keyboard
challengers, in at least one case scaring one out of town. Paganini,
Beethoven, Mozart--they were the rock stars of their day, they composed and
performed for money and status, and generated intense adoration and behavior
from many of their fans. Yet today some folks prefer to look back on their
music as purely cerebral, as if passion (and commerce) didn't exist in
previous centuries. Talk about unintentional comedy.

On Jun 28, 8:56*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

My appreciation of the product does not translate to idolization of the
creator.

That's good, 'cuz Wofie was a baaaad boy.

DGDevin wrote:
: contents of some rooms amount to guilty pleasures). I have to feel a bit
: sorry for those who can appreciate the genius of Mozart but for some reason
: can't or won't do the same with John Coltrane or Pete Townshend or Johnny
: Cash.

Exactly!

Frankly there are few things more absurd than the music snob, for
: some reason classical and jazz seem to produce them in large quantities.


Classical I can sot of understand. It was originally court music, so the
paying audience was rich, at least in the beginning. And today as in the past
a full orchestra is just lain expensive, so ticket prices have to be high, and
so it goes.

But jazz? Who decided that jazz was more prestigious
(i.e. better, more high-falooting) than folk, rock, blues,
or electronica? I really don't get this.

-- Andy Barss

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "DGDevin" wrote:




Right, but so what? Why should an entertainer be regarded as a hero? To me,
a hero is the cop who puts his life on the line every day to guard the safety
of people he will never meet. The firefighter who runs into a burning building
when you or I would run out. The nurse who works herself ragged every day
caring for strangers. The EMT working frantically to stabilize an accident
victim in the desperate hope of keeping him alive long enough to reach the ER.
The retired businessman volunteering at the local library, teaching children
to read. The soldier. The blood donor. The teacher. The hospice volunteer.

A friend sent me this e-mail, and although I do not know the original
source, I thought it worth sharing:

While the focus today, tomorrow and for the next God-knows-how-many-days
will be the death of a pop culture icon; while many will mourn, wail and
quite literally make fools of themselves over it and while as many will
speak endlessly about it, allow me, if only for a moment, to remind us
all that others have died this month; others whose lives were cut short;
others who leave behind loved ones and whose families will dearly miss
them; families who'll suffer with much more dignity and honor than we'll
be exposed to on the tube in the coming days.
Yes... it's true... we've suffered a great loss... but forgive me while
I tell you that I'm not talking about the king of pop music.
These American military members died in Iraq this month:
Sergeant Justin J. Duffy
Specialist Christopher M. Kurth
Specialist Charles D. Parrish
Lance Corporal Robert D. Ulmer
Staff Sergeant Edmond L. Lo
Sergeant Joshua W. Soto
Captain Kafele H. Sims
Specialist Chancellor A. Keesling
And these members of our U.S. Armed Forces died in Afghanistan this month:
Sergeant Jones, Ricky D.
Specialist Munguia Rivas, Rodrigo A.
Command Master Chief Petty Officer Garber, Jeffrey J.
1st Sergeant Blair, John D.
Sergeant Smith, Paul G.
Staff Sergeant Melton, Joshua
Sergeant 1st Class Dupont, Kevin A.
Specialist O'Neill, Jonathan C.
Chief Warrant Officer Richardson Jr., Ricky L.
Specialist Silva, Eduardo S.
Lance Corporal Whittle, Joshua R.
Major Barnes, Rocco M.
Major Jenrette, Kevin M.
Staff Sergeant Beale, John C.
Specialist Jordan, Jeffrey W.
Specialist Griemel, Jarrett P.
Specialist Hernandez I, Roberto A.
Sergeant Obakrairur, Jasper K.
Staff Sergeant Hall, Jeffrey A.
Private 1st Class Ogden, Matthew D.
Private 1st Class Wilson, Matthew W.
Let's remember and honor this day those whose deaths are truly impacting.

"Robatoy" wrote in message
Thin ice there, Mr Devin. Lennon and Michael Jackson in the same
sentence?

No argument, Michael Jackson was a freak. Just because we believe that isn't
going to change the opinion of those who feel that Jackson was some kind of
deity. Those people simply haven't had enough experience in life to know any
better. It's one of the few things I know of that makes being older an
advantage.