I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?

On Mar 2, 2:35*pm, coloradotrout wrote:

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings?

Some, depending on design, may be either more suited to the climate or
purpose.

Why aren't PBs more common?

They are far more common than you realize. They just don't even
resemble what you think is a pole building any more. Offices, garages,
workshops, ministorage, the list goes on. Have a look at a majo
manufacturer's web site, like Morton Buildings in the midwest. HTH

Joe

coloradotrout wrote:
I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?


They are common.
Just about every commercial structure you see, every strip mall and
office building is a pole barn. Except the poles are steel.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

coloradotrout wrote:
What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?


BTW, I'd prefer a pole (post and beam) building over load bearing walls,
anytime, for a utility building.

You can more easily modify the structure. Once the poles and roof
trusses are up, that's it. There nothing else needed for structural
support. You can do anything inside without worrying about what's
bearing the load. You can also trenches for cables without worrying
about crossing footings.

You can build and remove interior or exterior walls anytime you like,
for whatever purpose. Want another garage door, fine, tear the wall out
and put one in. As long as you don't cut that green post, you're good.
:-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"coloradotrout" wrote in message
...
I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?
You may be able to get free utility poles from the power company. I got some
free ones here.
I built a 24' X 48' pole barn using free treated railroad ties which were
new. I used trusses and put on a metal roof.
I strung a 5/8 steel cable and pulley between 2 trees and used a tractor to
pull up the trusses.
When you get old you have to work smarter not harder.
Virgle

On Mar 2, 4:04*pm, "Virgle" wrote:
"coloradotrout" wrote in message

...I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? * A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? *Why aren't PBs more common?

You may be able to get free utility poles from the power company. I got some
free ones here.
I built a 24' X 48' pole barn using free treated railroad ties which were
new. I used trusses and put on a metal roof.
I strung a 5/8 steel cable and pulley between 2 trees and used a tractor to
pull up the trusses.
When you get old you have to work smarter not harder.
Virgle


So could I build a 8' x 16' x 8' sloping to 7' pole barn using 4x4
posts (6 of them - a pair on the ends, a pair in the middle) and then
wrap it with 2x4s space 2' apart for the walls and then three 2x4s to
hold up 16' 2x4s for the roof?

Where do I get some guidance on pole spacing, wall support, roof
support, etc?

My 1st PB will be a simple animal shelter. I live in NE KS, so not
sure about snow load, and not worried about code.

On Mar 2, 4:04*pm, "Virgle" wrote:
"coloradotrout" wrote in message

...I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? * A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? *Why aren't PBs more common?

You may be able to get free utility poles from the power company. I got some
free ones here.
I built a 24' X 48' pole barn using free treated railroad ties which were
new. I used trusses and put on a metal roof.
I strung a 5/8 steel cable and pulley between 2 trees and used a tractor to
pull up the trusses.
When you get old you have to work smarter not harder.
Virgle

So how many woodworkers built their shop from a pole barn?

On Mar 2, 4:04*pm, "Virgle" wrote:
"coloradotrout" wrote in message

...I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? * A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? *Why aren't PBs more common?

You may be able to get free utility poles from the power company. I got some
free ones here.
I built a 24' X 48' pole barn using free treated railroad ties which were
new. I used trusses and put on a metal roof.
I strung a 5/8 steel cable and pulley between 2 trees and used a tractor to
pull up the trusses.
When you get old you have to work smarter not harder.
Virgle

I assume PT for all the wood that touches the soil, but can standard
2x's be used everwhere else?

coloradotrout wrote:
I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?

You might want to browse he

http://bioengr.ag.utk.edu/extension/...planlist97.htm

Pole buildings are common in my part of the country. I provided the
heating panels for this one:

http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

and if you click on the photo you can see some construction photos.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/

"coloradotrout" wrote in message
...
On Mar 2, 4:04 pm, "Virgle" wrote:
"coloradotrout" wrote in message

...I
think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).
Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? A $20
book is fine.
What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?

You may be able to get free utility poles from the power company. I got
some free ones here. I built a 24' X 48' pole barn using free treated
railroad ties which were
new. I used trusses and put on a metal roof.
I strung a 5/8 steel cable and pulley between 2 trees and used a tractor
to pull up the trusses.
When you get old you have to work smarter not harder.
Virgle

I assume PT for all the wood that touches the soil, but can standard
2x's be used everwhere else?

Man, you need a book or, at the very least, a manual from one of the steel
building companies to get some advice. Piece-mealing it with bits of info
garnered here may leave you open to the one little bit that never got
mentioned. Sometime the manuals and sales materials give you enough to go
on to at least know what questions to ask. Oh yea, check a libray for
"Steel Building Construction" and "Post and Beam Construcion" (if anybody
else knows another title please chip in).

Also, I know that you want to keep it simple with a dirt floor but you are
looking at a future building that you can scarcely stand to go into. Animal
urine and fecal deposits eventually contaminate the soil and it becomes
permanently fouled. I worked in a railroad car repair shop and the standard
urinal was under an open canopy back in a corner. It was so foul that it
was barely a useable structure even with the air freely moving through.

I hope that it all works out for you. Best of luck.
Chuck

Check with the county farm agent. They likely have a small
pamphlet or manual. A&M type universities across the states generate
documents and run tests for improved farm stuff from trees to ice-cream.


Martin

C & E wrote:
"coloradotrout" wrote in message
...
On Mar 2, 4:04 pm, "Virgle" wrote:
"coloradotrout" wrote in message

...I
think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).
Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? A
$20 book is fine.
What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?

You may be able to get free utility poles from the power company. I
got some free ones here. I built a 24' X 48' pole barn using free
treated railroad ties which were
new. I used trusses and put on a metal roof.
I strung a 5/8 steel cable and pulley between 2 trees and used a
tractor to pull up the trusses.
When you get old you have to work smarter not harder.
Virgle

I assume PT for all the wood that touches the soil, but can standard
2x's be used everwhere else?

Man, you need a book or, at the very least, a manual from one of the
steel building companies to get some advice. Piece-mealing it with bits
of info garnered here may leave you open to the one little bit that
never got mentioned. Sometime the manuals and sales materials give you
enough to go on to at least know what questions to ask. Oh yea, check a
libray for "Steel Building Construction" and "Post and Beam Construcion"
(if anybody else knows another title please chip in).

Also, I know that you want to keep it simple with a dirt floor but you
are looking at a future building that you can scarcely stand to go
into. Animal urine and fecal deposits eventually contaminate the soil
and it becomes permanently fouled. I worked in a railroad car repair
shop and the standard urinal was under an open canopy back in a corner.
It was so foul that it was barely a useable structure even with the air
freely moving through.

I hope that it all works out for you. Best of luck.
Chuck

So could I build a 8' x 16' x 8' sloping to 7' pole barn using 4x4
posts (6 of them - a pair on the ends, a pair in the middle) and then
wrap it with 2x4s space 2' apart for the walls and then three 2x4s to
hold up 16' 2x4s for the roof?

Where do I get some guidance on pole spacing, wall support, roof
support, etc?

My 1st PB will be a simple animal shelter. I live in NE KS, so not
sure about snow load, and not worried about code.

Just off hand, it might be cheaper and easier to buy one of those
pre-fab sheds.
They are basically trusses the shape oh a shed. You stand them up on
concrete blocks, run stringers along to hold the up and attach them to
each other. Side it, shingle it, doors, done.

A couple guys can do it in a day. No waiting for concrete to cure.
You might get some "crawling" in the freeze and thaw, but it's just a shed.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

coloradotrout wrote:
On Mar 2, 4:04 pm, "Virgle" wrote:
"coloradotrout" wrote in message

...I
think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole
barn buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?

You may be able to get free utility poles from the power company. I
got some
free ones here.
I built a 24' X 48' pole barn using free treated railroad ties
which were
new. I used trusses and put on a metal roof.
I strung a 5/8 steel cable and pulley between 2 trees and used a
tractor to
pull up the trusses.
When you get old you have to work smarter not harder.
Virgle


So could I build a 8' x 16' x 8' sloping to 7' pole barn using 4x4
posts (6 of them - a pair on the ends, a pair in the middle) and then
wrap it with 2x4s space 2' apart for the walls and then three 2x4s to
hold up 16' 2x4s for the roof?

16 foot 2x4s for the roof! Even from their own weight these will start to
sag quickly, not counting wind load, any possible snow load and rain. Don't
use 2x4s for any horizontal loading, even if you are crossing the 8'
dimension, go larger or create a peaked roof with a homebuilt truss using
the 2x4s.

On Mar 2, 3:35*pm, coloradotrout wrote:
I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials?

Do a web search for:
shed plans extension
and look at any address that contains "ag" and/or "edu". Tennessee
and North Dakota show up early, but there are others too. Many of
these are the same ones, but there are some that are unique on each
site. Most of the free plans out there, and even some of the "for
pay" ones are just these same ones anyway.
http://bioengr.ag.utk.edu/extension/...Sh ed%20Plans
http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/abeng/plans/index.htm

Study a bunch of the different sheds, barns, stalls, and miscellaneous
outbuildings and you will either see something you can use directly or
get enough of a feel for the style and details to make what you want.

Also if you look at the tractorbynet.com forums under "projects" and
search for "pole barn" there is quite a bit there.

You say this is for animals, if this is going to hold horses or cows,
make it sturdier than you think it needs to be--a ton of animal using
it like a scratching post can be pretty hard on it.

--Glenn Lyford

On Mar 3, 9:13*am, Glenn wrote:
On Mar 2, 3:35*pm, coloradotrout wrote:

I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials?

GOOGLE "Free Pole Barn Plans," "Pole Barn Construction," "Building a
Pole Barn" or even "Building an 8x16 animal shelter."

Having said that, consider the advice relative to pouring a slab.
Consider that your intended use, today, may not suit you down the road
and the effort of building a 128sf structure with limited uses might
be better applied to building something that can serve the immediate
need and be pressed into other service(s) subsequently as
circumstances change (as I've heard they do).

In our case, I took a ten by twenty shed roof pole barn to 18.5 x 32
feet by adding a slab and stud walls and a sloping roof addition into
a barn that serves as a workshop and equipment (tractor, etc) storage
and would up removing a pole (may remove a couple others that are,
now, in the way - middle). When I get done, I'll have a fully
insulated structure with 220 AC that can keep goats, tractors and
table saws high, dry and out of the weather.

We saved all the old barn siding, sheathed the thing in OSB covered
with roofing felt and TYVEK and put the old bar siding back over that
so it still looks like the fifty-year old structure the Tax Man saw
last year. (which reminds me - portable shelters are not added to
your tax base so one of those Tractor Supply shelters might do you as
well (save the Snow Load issues, of course).

Whatever floats your boat - do they have boats in Kansas?

(;

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message
...
Check with the county farm agent. They likely have a small pamphlet or
manual. A&M type universities across the states generate documents and
run tests for improved farm stuff from trees to ice-cream.


Martin

Good one, Martin. Here in PA it would be the COunty Extension Office of
Penn State. Great source of a wide variety of info. It was originally
designed for the farmers but they also help homeowners with pruning, soil
testing a lots more.

C & E wrote:
"coloradotrout" wrote in message
...
On Mar 2, 4:04 pm, "Virgle" wrote:
"coloradotrout" wrote in message

...I
think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).
Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? A
$20 book is fine.
What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?

You may be able to get free utility poles from the power company. I got
some free ones here. I built a 24' X 48' pole barn using free treated
railroad ties which were
new. I used trusses and put on a metal roof.
I strung a 5/8 steel cable and pulley between 2 trees and used a tractor
to pull up the trusses.
When you get old you have to work smarter not harder.
Virgle

I assume PT for all the wood that touches the soil, but can standard
2x's be used everwhere else?

Man, you need a book or, at the very least, a manual from one of the
steel building companies to get some advice. Piece-mealing it with bits
of info garnered here may leave you open to the one little bit that never
got mentioned. Sometime the manuals and sales materials give you enough
to go on to at least know what questions to ask. Oh yea, check a libray
for "Steel Building Construction" and "Post and Beam Construcion" (if
anybody else knows another title please chip in).

Also, I know that you want to keep it simple with a dirt floor but you
are looking at a future building that you can scarcely stand to go into.
Animal urine and fecal deposits eventually contaminate the soil and it
becomes permanently fouled. I worked in a railroad car repair shop and
the standard urinal was under an open canopy back in a corner. It was so
foul that it was barely a useable structure even with the air freely
moving through.

I hope that it all works out for you. Best of luck.
Chuck

We have a small barn on this site - maybe 600' under it...

Front half is a room - windows... - back is covered equipment
or storage area. Roof is metal 'tin' - second or n hand.

Underneath this metal is 2x4. Rafter breakage is common.
Knots fall out and board breaks. They have to be replaced
and new metal one of these days. It won't be easy since the
building has been there for years and not built well - pier and
beam of questionable design. Should replace it with a new metal building.

So 2x4 rafter - won't last. Use 2x8 minimum or 2x10.
Or more poles.

Martin

EXT wrote:
coloradotrout wrote:
On Mar 2, 4:04 pm, "Virgle" wrote:
"coloradotrout" wrote in message


...I

think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole
barn buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?

You may be able to get free utility poles from the power company. I
got some
free ones here.
I built a 24' X 48' pole barn using free treated railroad ties
which were
new. I used trusses and put on a metal roof.
I strung a 5/8 steel cable and pulley between 2 trees and used a
tractor to
pull up the trusses.
When you get old you have to work smarter not harder.
Virgle


So could I build a 8' x 16' x 8' sloping to 7' pole barn using 4x4
posts (6 of them - a pair on the ends, a pair in the middle) and then
wrap it with 2x4s space 2' apart for the walls and then three 2x4s to
hold up 16' 2x4s for the roof?

16 foot 2x4s for the roof! Even from their own weight these will start
to sag quickly, not counting wind load, any possible snow load and rain.
Don't use 2x4s for any horizontal loading, even if you are crossing the
8' dimension, go larger or create a peaked roof with a homebuilt truss
using the 2x4s.

I looked at Building Small Barnes, Sheds& Shelters by Monte Burch. We
used 6x6 pressure treated to hold non-kicking horses. We used 2x6 for
girts. 2x8 for rafters. What size you need to use depends on what
livestock you are keeping. Rats and mice will do ok with 4x4 and 2x4.
Horses and cows can trash 6x6 and 2x6. The 3/4 plywood we used to line
the stall walss could be dicey for kicking horses. Your local AG
office may have ideas.

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:35:56 -0800 (PST), coloradotrout
wrote:

I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?

On Tue, 3 Mar 2009 07:42:15 -0800 (PST), Hoosierpopi
wrote:

..

Whatever floats your boat - do they have boats in Kansas?

(;
Stone boats

On Mar 3, 7:47*pm, Jim Behning
wrote:
I looked at Building Small Barnes, Sheds& Shelters by Monte Burch. We
used 6x6 pressure treated to hold non-kicking horses. We used 2x6 for
girts. 2x8 for rafters. What size you need to use depends on what
livestock you are keeping. Rats and mice will do ok with 4x4 and 2x4.
Horses and cows can trash 6x6 and 2x6. The 3/4 plywood we used to line
the stall walss could be dicey for kicking horses. Your local AG
office may have ideas.

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:35:56 -0800 (PST), coloradotrout



wrote:
I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? * A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? *Why aren't PBs more common?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Llamas and goats. Primary purpose is basic Llama shelter for 2-4
critters.

It has to be low cost. If it lasts for 10 years, that's fine.

Would 6-4x4 posts, 2x4 girts, and 2x6 rafters be sufficien?

The roof will probably be metal, and the walls OSB.

What's a good source of metal roofing/siding?

Llamas and goats. Primary purpose is basic Llama shelter for 2-4
critters.

It has to be low cost. If it lasts for 10 years, that's fine.

Would 6-4x4 posts, 2x4 girts, and 2x6 rafters be sufficien?

The roof will probably be metal, and the walls OSB.

What's a good source of metal roofing/siding?


That would work, minimum. The roof will hold, but may sag a little.
Look into Fiber-Cement Siding for the wall sheathing.
It comes in 4x8 sheets like osb, but is impervious to everything.
Maybe the first 4ft. of wall could have OSB on the inside as a kick
shield.

I don't know if there's an aspca in your area or some equivalent
association, but you may want to check and see how much room is needed
for llamas. They're pretty big, no?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

My favorite is "Pole Building construction". ABEbooks.com has one for
$5 right now. There were 77 hits for other books with that phrase in
their name. This book is exactly what you ar looking for.

Pete Stanaitis

coloradotrout wrote:
I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? Why aren't PBs more common?

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:19:55 -0800 (PST), coloradotrout
wrote:

On Mar 2, 4:04*pm, "Virgle" wrote:
"coloradotrout" wrote in message

...I think I'm going to make a pole barn of 8' x 12' or maybe 16' for an
animal shelter (dirt floor is good).

Can you point me to some online or hardcopy reference materials? * A
$20 book is fine.

What are the main advantages of foundation buildings over pole barn
buildings? *Why aren't PBs more common?

You may be able to get free utility poles from the power company. I got some
free ones here.
I built a 24' X 48' pole barn using free treated railroad ties which were
new. I used trusses and put on a metal roof.
I strung a 5/8 steel cable and pulley between 2 trees and used a tractor to
pull up the trusses.
When you get old you have to work smarter not harder.
Virgle

So how many woodworkers built their shop from a pole barn?

I replaced my old garage with a new pole building, 30x30', which is
now my shop.

On Mar 3, 11:44*pm, -MIKE- wrote:
Llamas and goats. *Primary purpose is basic Llama shelter for 2-4
critters.

It has to be low cost. * If it lasts for 10 years, that's fine.

Would 6-4x4 posts, 2x4 girts, and 2x6 rafters be sufficien?

The roof will probably be metal, and the walls OSB.

What's a good source of metal roofing/siding?

That would work, minimum. *The roof will hold, but may sag a little.
Look into Fiber-Cement Siding for the wall sheathing.
It comes in 4x8 sheets like osb, but is impervious to everything.
Maybe the first 4ft. of wall could have OSB on the inside as a kick
shield.

I don't know if there's an aspca in your area or some equivalent
association, but you may want to check and see how much room is needed
for llamas. They're pretty big, no?

--

* -MIKE-

* "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
* * *--Elvin Jones *(1927-2004)
* --
*http://mikedrums.com
*
* ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

What's the best way to construct the roof?

I have seen 2x6s (rafters) or such strung from front to back across
the tops of the poles (poles space 8' or more), and then 2x material
(purlins) laid down across those. When I said laid down, I mean the
wide part of the board (4", 6", 8") is nailed down to the front to
back rafters, and then the roofing is nailed to these.

Would it be better to attach a 2x6 across the front and back of the
building, and then hang rafters between those? I guess the problem is
there is nothing to attach the roofing material to, so one would first
have to nail some sheathing to the rafters and then the roofiing
material (metal).

What's the best way to construct the roof?

I have seen 2x6s (rafters) or such strung from front to back across
the tops of the poles (poles space 8' or more), and then 2x material
(purlins) laid down across those. When I said laid down, I mean the
wide part of the board (4", 6", 8") is nailed down to the front to
back rafters, and then the roofing is nailed to these.

Would it be better to attach a 2x6 across the front and back of the
building, and then hang rafters between those? I guess the problem is
there is nothing to attach the roofing material to, so one would first
have to nail some sheathing to the rafters and then the roofiing
material (metal).


This is a pretty good picture of what you need to do.
http://www.ecobuilders.ca/images/storage%20shed.gif




--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply