I am wanting to build a small pole barn garage myself. The area is near
my blacktop turn around. I want to extend this turnaround with gravel.
My idea is to "box in" a 24 x 24 area with stakes and 2x6's. To put the
gravel in this for the pole barn floor. Then start building as I have
time and money. (I will not have a 2x6 in the front so I can put gravel
from my turnaround to the pole barn and use it for parking.

I worked the ground with a tiller last year and scraped with a tractor
bucket. It is more level than it was but not perfect.

Any idea on how I can get this good and level before I start without
buying expensive tools or spending a lot of money? (We just had a baby
born two months ago).

Is this a doable project by myself?

wrote in message
oups.com...
I am wanting to build a small pole barn garage myself. The area is near
my blacktop turn around. I want to extend this turnaround with gravel.
My idea is to "box in" a 24 x 24 area with stakes and 2x6's. To put the
gravel in this for the pole barn floor. Then start building as I have
time and money. (I will not have a 2x6 in the front so I can put gravel
from my turnaround to the pole barn and use it for parking.

I worked the ground with a tiller last year and scraped with a tractor
bucket. It is more level than it was but not perfect.

Any idea on how I can get this good and level before I start without
buying expensive tools or spending a lot of money? (We just had a baby

Build the pole barn first. Get it square and plumb, and make the collar
beams level. True the collar with a water level (below).

Then box in the bottom of the barn with pressure treated (ground contact)
batter boards -- say, 2x8's, if they're wide enough to make up any uneveness
on the ground. Just adjust the box to level all-round, ditching where
necessary to keep the top at or below your desired finished level.

Back-fill around the outsides of the batter boards, then fill the box with
gravel (or pre-fill with some compacted earth to a slightly higher "level"
mark than the original grade, then finish up with 4" to 6" of gravel) and
plate compact the whole mass.

Leveling can be done with a simple water level. In its basic incarnation,
it's just a transparent plastic hose with a large bottle of water at one
end, and you at the other. The volume of water in the bottle should be
twenty or more times the total volume of the hose, if you want the level to
be both accurate and easy to use. Make sure there are NO bubbles in the
line; they'll disrupt the accuracy.

Don't worry about heaving the affair up a ladder to use it. Just set the
bottle on the ground at a convenient "home" location right up against your
"first" pole, and use the bottle's water level as the basis mark for
everything else. Mark that water level on the "first" pole. Run the hose
around to all the poles, and mark a reference line on each pole at the water
level in the hose. (let it stablilize a few moments at each point -- the
water forms a slow pendulum in the hose)

Then you're done with the level. Just drive a nail at each reference mark,
and measure up or down from those marks with a tape to establish other
higher or lower level points.

Yeah... you can do it.

LLoyd

Ignoramus21682 wrote:

The most precise tool in the world, for leveling, is a transparent
vinyl hose villed with water.

And when you need a long one, a regular hose with transparent tubing spliced
onto the ends! - GWE

You can do a nice job with one of the el-cheapo laser levels. This one
is $10 at Harbor Freight.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=90725
Just set it up somewhere convienient (inside or outside the building
footprint) and start in. Best way to do things is to use a "story stick"
(any old stick with a big black mark on the side that matches the laser
level line) Dig a series of hole about 4' on center that are the exact
depth of your finished excavation. Use some stakes to mark the top of
the excavation on the areas you want to fill.

One note: As much as possible, try not to do any building on "disturbed
earth" that has not been compacted with a tamper. Your building will
tend to tilt after a while if you don't tamp it. Just dig down to the
grade you want and leave it alone.

It's good practice to add at least 6" (12" is better) of good gravel
between your excavated area and the bottom of the concrete.

wrote:
I am wanting to build a small pole barn garage myself. The area is near
my blacktop turn around. I want to extend this turnaround with gravel.
My idea is to "box in" a 24 x 24 area with stakes and 2x6's. To put the
gravel in this for the pole barn floor. Then start building as I have
time and money. (I will not have a 2x6 in the front so I can put gravel
from my turnaround to the pole barn and use it for parking.

I worked the ground with a tiller last year and scraped with a tractor
bucket. It is more level than it was but not perfect.

Any idea on how I can get this good and level before I start without
buying expensive tools or spending a lot of money? (We just had a baby
born two months ago).

Is this a doable project by myself?

In article .com,
wrote:

Is this a doable project by myself?

Other suggestions have been pretty reasonable. However, if you'd like to
get it level before the building goes up, here's the low tech, hard
work, no particularly expensive tools to buy method. With slight
modification this method can also be used to make precise slopes (around
the building, usually, sloping away to carry water away).

Get a bunch of stakes. Pound them into the ground on a grid. Use some
form of level to mark them all at a convenient height (perhaps 2-3 feet
above your desired grade). A water level is cheap, a laser level is
probably sitting aound some friend or relation's house not doing
anything, though some of those are not that good, so the water level
(dscussed in greater detail in other replies) may be the method of
choice.

Now, run strings on the mark from post to post. Mark the handle of a
steel landscape rake at the distance your string is above your desired
grade. Set the rake on the ground, bend down, and look from the rake
across the strings. With multiple strings, they form a plane, which you
can reference your eye to and figure out if a particular spot (which
need not be right next to a string) is low, high, or correct. Rake until
all are correct.

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 14:28:08 GMT, RoyJ wrote:
You can do a nice job with one of the el-cheapo laser levels. This one
is $10 at Harbor Freight.

Problem with a laser level, is you get a nice straight line, but your
level is only as good as that bubble on that tiny level. For a few
feet, you're probably right on. But, how much error in that bubble would
it take to be off by an inch, at 50 feet? Not a hell of a lot. Water is
much more dependable, can't be mis-calibrated, and has been in use as a
level for laying out buildings, since the pyramids were built.

On 10 Mar 2005 05:44:06 -0800, wrote:

I am wanting to build a small pole barn garage myself. The area is near
my blacktop turn around. I want to extend this turnaround with gravel.
My idea is to "box in" a 24 x 24 area with stakes and 2x6's. To put the
gravel in this for the pole barn floor. Then start building as I have
time and money. (I will not have a 2x6 in the front so I can put gravel
from my turnaround to the pole barn and use it for parking.

I worked the ground with a tiller last year and scraped with a tractor
bucket. It is more level than it was but not perfect.

Any idea on how I can get this good and level before I start without
buying expensive tools or spending a lot of money? (We just had a baby
born two months ago).

Is this a doable project by myself?
============================

If it is even remotely close to level your done...

NO REASON to play with Gravel before the poles are installed and plumb
and after the Bottom Batten boards are installed to box in the bottom

Normally I would finish the entire building...shingled roof and all
before I would bring in the gravel or the concrete...

As other have said a 50 foot lenght of 1/4 inch plastic tubing and a
quart of water will give you an accurate water level to work from...

Yes... My wife could build a pole barn IF she had the desire to get
dirty lol... not hard at all...

Congradulations on the Baby.... My 3 children are all approching
the ripe old age of 40 ...and they are still costing me money...LOL

Bob Griffiths.

whatever you do, don't depend on a box made of 2 X 6's to hold in your
fill material. It won't. You don't say how much of a slope you are
dealing with. If it's a foot or less, I'd agree with the post that says
"build the building first". If it's 3 feet or more, you are probably
going to have to fill and compact first. In my non-expert but somewhat
experienced opinion (having done it both ways) I'd fill to level (after
compacting) at least 26 X 26 for a 24 X 24 building (more if possible)
with the ground sloping away at a 45 degree angle or less.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------------------

wrote:

I am wanting to build a small pole barn garage myself. The area is near
my blacktop turn around. I want to extend this turnaround with gravel.
My idea is to "box in" a 24 x 24 area with stakes and 2x6's. To put the
gravel in this for the pole barn floor. Then start building as I have
time and money. (I will not have a 2x6 in the front so I can put gravel
from my turnaround to the pole barn and use it for parking.

I worked the ground with a tiller last year and scraped with a tractor
bucket. It is more level than it was but not perfect.

Any idea on how I can get this good and level before I start without
buying expensive tools or spending a lot of money? (We just had a baby
born two months ago).

Is this a doable project by myself?

"Pete & sheri" wrote in message
...
whatever you do, don't depend on a box made of 2 X 6's to hold in your
fill material. It won't.

Please read the suggestion again. I never said to count on lumber to hold
the fill. I suggested using lumber as a form, and using compacted back-fill
for support.
That works well, except on extreme slopes. In such a case, only a
revettement or bulkhead anchored into the higher earth will serve.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote in message
.net...

"Pete & sheri" wrote in message
...
whatever you do, don't depend on a box made of 2 X 6's to hold in your
fill material. It won't.


I really hate to rain on the water hose level peoples parade, but there are
some factors that need to be addressed. I once took a 30' piece of plastic
hose to use as a level. I filled it full with no air whatsoever in it. I
held both ends next to each other
and was amazed to see the level was over an inch different. The problem was
the temperature of the water was changing as I was filling the clear hose. I
used a garden hose that was in the sun so the first water was warm followed
by cooler water. It is very important the water is the same temp throughout
the hose. This would even be something to be aware of if part of the hose
level was in the sun and part in the shade.
Dixon

wrote:
I am wanting to build a small pole barn garage myself. The area is near
my blacktop turn around. I want to extend this turnaround with gravel.
My idea is to "box in" a 24 x 24 area with stakes and 2x6's. To put the
gravel in this for the pole barn floor. Then start building as I have
time and money. (I will not have a 2x6 in the front so I can put gravel
from my turnaround to the pole barn and use it for parking.

I worked the ground with a tiller last year and scraped with a tractor
bucket. It is more level than it was but not perfect.

Any idea on how I can get this good and level before I start without
buying expensive tools or spending a lot of money? (We just had a baby
born two months ago).

Is this a doable project by myself?

I'd suggest using landscaping timbers and rebar to contain the gravel.
The timbers are relatively attactive and rebar stakes through drilled
holes in the timbers are all but invisible. As for spreading dirt or
gravel, tractor with box blade or a Bobcat is probably the best way.
You can move a lot of dirt with a Bobcat (but it will beat you to
death). I'd recommend putting the poles for your barn in first and then
build up the timbers and fill with dirt or gravel. Make sure the
poles are rot-resistant.

--
Gary Brady
Austin, TX
www.powdercoatoven.4t.com

I am wanting to build a small pole barn garage myself. The area is near
my blacktop turn around. I want to extend this turnaround with gravel.
My idea is to "box in" a 24 x 24 area with stakes and 2x6's. To put the
gravel in this for the pole barn floor. Then start building as I have
time and money. (I will not have a 2x6 in the front so I can put gravel
from my turnaround to the pole barn and use it for parking.

I worked the ground with a tiller last year and scraped with a tractor
bucket. It is more level than it was but not perfect.

Any idea on how I can get this good and level before I start without
buying expensive tools or spending a lot of money? (We just had a baby
born two months ago).

Is this a doable project by myself?

Do a search on google groups (rec.crafts.metalworking) on
"How to make a lot level" and you'll get 52 hits.
Ken.

"Dixon" wrote in message
...

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote in message
.net...

"Pete & sheri" wrote in message
...
whatever you do, don't depend on a box made of 2 X 6's to hold in your
fill material. It won't.


I really hate to rain on the water hose level peoples parade, but there
are
some factors that need to be addressed. I once took a 30' piece of plastic
hose to use as a level. I filled it full with no air whatsoever in it. I
held both ends next to each other
and was amazed to see the level was over an inch different. The problem
was
the temperature of the water was changing as I was filling the clear hose.
I
used a garden hose that was in the sun so the first water was warm
followed
by cooler water. It is very important the water is the same temp
throughout
the hose. This would even be something to be aware of if part of the hose
level was in the sun and part in the shade.
Dixon

I kinda wondered about this. So I did some googling...

The total expansion from freezing to boiling is about 4.3%.

So you'd get about 15 inches difference with such a difference of
temperature.

But you didn't have such a range.

If one half of a 30 foot tube was at 20 centigrade and the other at 40
centigrade you'd get about 1 inch difference.

If one half was (just above) freezing and the other was 20 degrees you'd get
about 1/3rd of an inch.

The above is only approximate back-of-envelope-type maths...

Why do you want it level? Where will the water go when it rains? Most
designs of this type call for an elevated floor with clear drainage all
around; otherwise you just built a big mudhole.
Bugs

What should I use to hold in the fill material then?

Bugs wrote:
Why do you want it level? Where will the water go when it rains? Most
designs of this type call for an elevated floor with clear drainage
all
around; otherwise you just built a big mudhole.
Bugs

What do you mean? I want the floor level so I can make sure the gravel
is level, then build my pole bar around it.

What do you mean? I want the floor level so I can make sure the gravel
is level, then build my pole bar around it.

I would have figured that my now... you should have read all the posts
that told you that you do not Build a Pole barn around a level
finished floor.....

build the barn... then use gravel to fill the floor area so that it is
level... may require

Bob Griffiths

On 10 Mar 2005 05:44:06 -0800, vaguely proposed a
theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I am wanting to build a small pole barn garage myself. The area is near
my blacktop turn around. I want to extend this turnaround with gravel.
My idea is to "box in" a 24 x 24 area with stakes and 2x6's. To put the
gravel in this for the pole barn floor. Then start building as I have
time and money. (I will not have a 2x6 in the front so I can put gravel
from my turnaround to the pole barn and use it for parking.

I worked the ground with a tiller last year and scraped with a tractor
bucket. It is more level than it was but not perfect.

Be careful here. It is easy to try to level with existing ground and
end up below level. Your shed then becomes a shallow swimming pool at
the wrong times. Your gravel being brought in is the better idea. Work
from just (150mm) above natural ground and go out flat from there.
That way you have a consistent floor material, and your inlet comes up
to it. You _will_ be amazed at how much gravel you need though! :-

10 m * 10 m , starting at one corner at 150mm and having a max fall of
0.5 metres is mmmmm.... 20 m^3 with 45 degree fall on the batters? You
may get away with "local dirt" for a bottom layer or two, but be
careful, and check first if you are every going to concrete the floor,
or the authorities are ever going to delve around.

Compact your worked "natural" ground very thoroughly before you start
adding.

What do you call "gravel"? I am concerned that it will _look_
compacted, if it's true gravel, but have no binding agent. This will
not compact well. There is usually a requirements for "fines" to bind
the the material. Here we use "yellow sand" a coarse sand with some
clay content for 99% of floors.

My FIL was a granno worker (cement floors) now retired, and a bloody
good one. His way (and mine when I had to do floors for him when he
did stuff for me G) to final level a floor was to create levels all
through it with rebar hammered in, then get in there with a shovel and
shuffle the gravel around to the levels. Work in maybe 1.5 - 2 metres
squares. Compact, then level again. Compact. It's up to you and the
local authorities as to how much of that you do! It's hard work, but
that final level with a machine is a real art that not many have
mastered. You can also work at your own pace.

Someone suggested using 2x around the edges and fill on the batter
sides. Sounds good to me. 2x6 with hammered in rebar every few feet
will hold. If you kept adding levels, and also supporting the down
side, you could go quite a height like that. But basically, build the
pad a lot larger than the shed (a metre all round is good, with 45
degrees max on the batter sides). Then level the bit you want.

He used a dumpy level. You could probably hire one with a staff. You
have read all the stuff about water levels and laser levels. They all
have their ups and downs. Laser leverl are useless outside unless you
have a sensor. But tye would be OK in a pre-built shed.


Any idea on how I can get this good and level before I start without
buying expensive tools or spending a lot of money? (We just had a baby
born two months ago).

Is this a doable project by myself?

Yes.

I agree with those comments. If you ever plan to install concrete, then
the subgrade needs to be compacted to 95% of Standard Proctor, the fill
material should be Base Course, as we call the graded material on this
side of the pond, also at 95% Proctor. If you don't know what I'm
talking about, you should hire an engineering firm to set the grades
and inspect the work.
Expensive, yes, but cheaper than doing it all over when everything
fails in a few years.
Bugs

On 12 Mar 2005 04:03:57 -0800, "Bugs" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I think that for most backyard sheds, you are being a bit harsh. I
have never had a compaction test done for shed soil, although I did
for a house.

Maybe we are lucky. This particular sand we use sets almost like
sandstone even without compaction if you wet it well and let it dry.
Compacting it while damp really settles it down, and unless you have a
critical application hardness testing is not done.

I agree with those comments. If you ever plan to install concrete, then
the subgrade needs to be compacted to 95% of Standard Proctor, the fill
material should be Base Course, as we call the graded material on this
side of the pond, also at 95% Proctor. If you don't know what I'm
talking about, you should hire an engineering firm to set the grades
and inspect the work.
Expensive, yes, but cheaper than doing it all over when everything
fails in a few years.
Bugs

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 10:04:11 +0800, OldNick
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Bum! More like 35m3. sorry.

10 m * 10 m , starting at one corner at 150mm and having a max fall of
0.5 metres is mmmmm.... 20 m^3 with 45 degree fall on the batters? You
may get away with "local dirt" for a bottom layer or two, but be
careful, and check first if you are every going to concrete the floor,
or the authorities are ever going to delve around.