Aardvark wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:41:35 -0600, David G. Nagel wrote:

Aardvark wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:53:46 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:

Finally, when it comes to small arms owned and kept by private
individuals, the UK is
'grown up' and civilised

enough to realise that this is a bad
idea.
Fixed that for ya.
Didn't need fixing thanks. Repaired it. I also added a little extra.

Especially since you have no way of justifying
that
you have a peaceful society.
Why would I try to justify an assertion I never made in the first
place?

You have a society in which the thugs run free and the law abiding
citizens are afraid to defend themselves.
Where do you get THAT preposterous idea?

Facts & figures

* The number of overall offences involving firearms fell by 13% in
2006/07 compared to the previous year.
* Firearms were involved in 566 serious or fatal injuries in
2006/07,
compared to 645 the previous year - a drop of 12%.
* The number of armed robberies involving guns dropped by 3% *
There were 13% fewer serious and fatal injuries related to gun
crimes in 2006/07.
* The number of reported crimes involving imitation guns dropped by
15% in 2006/07.
* The number of reported crimes involving air guns dropped by 15%
in
2006/07 over 2005/06.

(taken from http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-v...educing-crime/
gun-crime/)

I suggest you compare that with US government figures:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

I'm sorta glad that every Tom, Dick and Harry yahoo in this country
doesn't have easy access to firearms as they do in the US.

No
thanks.
What did I offer you?



None of these statistics should be possible in a society that prohibits
the private citizen owning firearms.

Of course not, but there will always be a (hopefully decreasing according
to Home Office figures) number of illegally held firearms. And there will
always be the occasional crime committed using a legally held one.

The owning of firearms is certainly NOT prohibited in the UK, it's just
difficult to do, I'm glad to say.

If no one has buns then no one can
kill someone with one....

I'll assume you don't mean confectionery :-)

Therefore the number of incidents with
firearms can't be reduced one year to the next.


The figures from the Home office show an annual reduction in firearm
crime over the last few years.

A number of years ago Florida had a problem with gang bangers robbing
and killing residents. They passed a concealed carry law. The number of
incidents with residents went down drastically. The number of incidents
with visitors went up because they couldn't defend themselves. You draw
the conclusions.


Conclusion: the availability of firearms in the US should be drastically
curtailed. The sooner the better.

Dave





I once read an article in the Readers Digest about a gentleman in
England who, one day, was visiting a gun show. Low and behold he
recognized his old Lee-Enfield MK4. This was the weapon he defended
England and fought NAZI Germany with. He immediately purchased the
weapon and properly registered it with the local officials. Some years
later, as the gentleman grew older, the local police chief decided that
this gallant former soldier was no longer capable of owning the weapon
he used during WWII. The point here is that the local copper had
absolutely no evidence to backup his decision but the old soldier had to
either turn in his weapon or have the local smitty weld the barrel
closed so that it could no longer be used. This is what we in the States
refused to permit. If the old gentleman could be trusted with the safety
of your country why should he no longer be trusted with the weapon he
used in it's defence.

Dave

I was having a discussion with my son-in-law about the things every
competent
adult should be able to do. The list includes such things as:

Safely shoot and handle firearms.
Change a tire.
Change a diaper.
Change the oil in a car.
Cook a meal.
Feed a baby.
Do laundry
Sew on a button.
A wide variety of simple home repairs.

Others?

-- Doug

Sexually please their partner?

cm

I picked up the CZ yesterday and there is no way that I am competent
to replicate the grip checkering. I thought that it would have been
much simpler but it is not.

It is a beautiful and delicately proprtioned piece and I'm confident
that the boy will be able to handle it well.

Had I owned a similar rifle at his age I would have never let it leave
my sight.

To Aardvark: I am sorry to disagree with you and I believe this to be
a cultural divide. Where and when I grew up it was a rite of passage
for a twelve year old boy to get a .22 rifle for his twelfth birthday,
or the Christmas preceding. My son will be twelve in February.

We here in the United States of America consider the entire populace
to be the "...well regulated militia..." that is described in our
Constitution. As such, it is not merely our right but our duty to
transmit the knowledge and wisdom that goes along with gun ownership
to our progeny.

You folks had a similar right secured as far back as 1689 but you seem
to have lost your way.

We have a wonderful organization called the National Rifle Association
that helps us to train our young people in the safe and effective use
of firearms. They also lobby, very effectively, to keep our right to
bear arms as it was intended by the Founders of our country.

I am happy to be a member and I am happy to say that my son is now
also a member.



On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:51:12 -0500, Tom Watson
wrote:

I've ordered a CZ Lux bolt action .22
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=3 for my eleven year old
for Christmas.

The specs and the reportage on this piece are excellent but it has one
funny elision. It is checkered on the grip but not on the forearm.

Well, you know, that just won't do.

I think that I have a decent read on how to go about this with the
carving tools that I have in hand but - I'm not a gunsmith. Does this
way madness lie?

I figured to lay it out and cut to the bevel on the layout lines - but
what do I know?

Do you guys have a clue as to how this is usually done?


tom


Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Aardvark wrote in
:

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:51:12 -0500, Tom Watson wrote:

I've ordered a CZ Lux bolt action .22
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=3 for my
eleven year old for Christmas.

Very clever. Buying a child a lethal weapon. Why not give
him the keys to your car and tell him to go for a drive
through town while you're at it.


No room for you to talk. What do your children eat with?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1149005...76591/sizes/l/
That's about as sad a state of affairs as it gets...

Regards,
Larry

Tom Watson wrote:

I picked up the CZ yesterday and there is no way that I am competent
to replicate the grip checkering. I thought that it would have been
much simpler but it is not.

It is a beautiful and delicately proprtioned piece and I'm confident
that the boy will be able to handle it well.


Took a look at their website after seeing this thread. Looks like they
make some very nice pieces.


Had I owned a similar rifle at his age I would have never let it leave
my sight.


Check (so to speak) your area for a good gunsmith; they may be able to
point you to someone who can do what you want with the results that such a
firearm deserves.


To Aardvark: I am sorry to disagree with you and I believe this to be
a cultural divide. Where and when I grew up it was a rite of passage
for a twelve year old boy to get a .22 rifle for his twelfth birthday,
or the Christmas preceding. My son will be twelve in February.


Well, times have changed some, just heard that my 12 year old niece asked
for, and got, a 22 for her birthday several weeks ago. Probably driven
somewhat by being with our son while shooting 22's this summer at the
annual family get-together on Grand-dad's farm.


We here in the United States of America consider the entire populace
to be the "...well regulated militia..." that is described in our
Constitution. As such, it is not merely our right but our duty to
transmit the knowledge and wisdom that goes along with gun ownership
to our progeny.


OK, where is the real Tom Watson and what have you done with him? I
actually agree with what you have written.


You folks had a similar right secured as far back as 1689 but you seem
to have lost your way.


Darned shame really.

We have a wonderful organization called the National Rifle Association
that helps us to train our young people in the safe and effective use
of firearms. They also lobby, very effectively, to keep our right to
bear arms as it was intended by the Founders of our country.

I am happy to be a member and I am happy to say that my son is now
also a member.


A surprise -- quite a happy surprise, but one none the less.



On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:51:12 -0500, Tom Watson
wrote:

I've ordered a CZ Lux bolt action .22
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=3 for my eleven year old
for Christmas.

The specs and the reportage on this piece are excellent but it has one
funny elision. It is checkered on the grip but not on the forearm.

Well, you know, that just won't do.

I think that I have a decent read on how to go about this with the
carving tools that I have in hand but - I'm not a gunsmith. Does this
way madness lie?

I figured to lay it out and cut to the bevel on the layout lines - but
what do I know?

Do you guys have a clue as to how this is usually done?


tom


Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:38:44 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote:

Tom Watson wrote:

snip


We here in the United States of America consider the entire populace
to be the "...well regulated militia..." that is described in our
Constitution. As such, it is not merely our right but our duty to
transmit the knowledge and wisdom that goes along with gun ownership
to our progeny.


OK, where is the real Tom Watson and what have you done with him? I
actually agree with what you have written.

And so, Grasshopper, you begin to see that there is more complexity to
our engagement than the mere hurling of insults such as, "Liberal",
or, "Democrat"?

snip


We have a wonderful organization called the National Rifle Association
that helps us to train our young people in the safe and effective use
of firearms. They also lobby, very effectively, to keep our right to
bear arms as it was intended by the Founders of our country.

I am happy to be a member and I am happy to say that my son is now
also a member.


A surprise -- quite a happy surprise, but one none the less.


I joined the NRA in 1960. I have occasionaly sent them checks in
excess of my membership dues.

Yes - I voted for Obama. I also voted for Nixon and Regan.

Go figure.




tom







On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 19:51:12 -0500, Tom Watson
wrote:

I've ordered a CZ Lux bolt action .22
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=3 for my eleven year old
for Christmas.

The specs and the reportage on this piece are excellent but it has one
funny elision. It is checkered on the grip but not on the forearm.

Well, you know, that just won't do.

I think that I have a decent read on how to go about this with the
carving tools that I have in hand but - I'm not a gunsmith. Does this
way madness lie?

I figured to lay it out and cut to the bevel on the layout lines - but
what do I know?

Do you guys have a clue as to how this is usually done?


tom


Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Tom Watson wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:38:44 -0700, Mark & Juanita



OK, where is the real Tom Watson and what have you done with him? I
actually agree with what you have written.



Yes - I voted for Obama. I also voted for Nixon and Regan.

Go figure.




tom


Whew! What a relief. For a day or two I thought you had got religion
or something.

--
Gerald Ross
Cochran, GA

A man with one watch knows what time
it is--with two watches he is never sure.

"Larry" wrote

No room for you to talk. What do your children eat with?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/1149005...76591/sizes/l/

That's about as sad a state of affairs as it gets...

From 40 year of observation, whatever you see in Britain now, you will see
here in five to ten years ... get ready for it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:29:11 -0500, Tom Watson wrote:

I picked up the CZ yesterday and there is no way that I am competent to
replicate the grip checkering. I thought that it would have been much
simpler but it is not.

It is a beautiful and delicately proportioned piece and I'm confident
that the boy will be able to handle it well.

Had I owned a similar rifle at his age I would have never let it leave
my sight.

To Aardvark: I am sorry to disagree with you and I believe this to be a
cultural divide. Where and when I grew up it was a rite of passage for
a twelve year old boy to get a .22 rifle for his twelfth birthday, or
the Christmas preceding. My son will be twelve in February.


I have taught my two lads (10 and 14) marksmanship and weapon safety with
a .22 air rifle which is always kept under lock and key. If I'm not
there, the rifle stays locked away and I'll only let them use it under my
supervision. I certainly wouldn't dream of allowing either of them to
have a REAL firearm even if it were less difficult to acquire one easily.

As a lad I was fortunate enough to have always had firearms around and
learned to respect them and fear their potential. I'm from Northern
Ireland originally and my father was in a profession which gave him
access to a variety of smallarms, including fully automatic weapons. The
first handguns I ever fired on the local police range at the age of 13
were a Colt .45 Peacemaker and a WWII Luger 9mm Parabellum. I was pretty
pleased that I was able to hit a 'Figure 11' target at 25 metres with
every shot I fired from both weapons- one of the other lads who was on
the range only managed to hit the target once LOL.

We here in the United States of America consider the entire populace to
be the "...well regulated militia..." that is described in our
Constitution. As such, it is not merely our right but our duty to
transmit the knowledge and wisdom that goes along with gun ownership to
our progeny.


I think that many Americans misinterpret your Second Amendment to mean
something it wasn't intended to mean. Perhaps members of official
'militias' are allowed to keep and bear arms, but it's a bit of a stretch
to insist that this right should extend to every member of the
population.

You folks had a similar right secured as far back as 1689 but you seem
to have lost your way.


We're a bit more civilised now than we were in the days of King James.

We have a wonderful

Hmmmm.

organization called the National Rifle Association
that helps us to train our young people in the safe and effective use of
firearms.

Who took over when Chuck 'From my cold dead hand' Heston died?

They also lobby, very effectively, to keep our right to bear
arms as it was intended by the Founders of our country.


I would say 'vociferously misinterpret the Second Amendment', but who
says my opinion should amount to more than a pile of sheep ****?

It's difficult to think of any legitimate reason for anyone to keep a
firearm in their home. You may say that it's to protect your home against
intruders. I would say that if you were to shoot an intruder the fact
that you had a firearm in your home at all implies premeditation on your
part and therefore you should be prosecuted by the law in much the same
way as if you had walked into the street with a firearm and shot the
first person you came across.

I am happy to be a member and I am happy to say that my son is now also
a member.


NASCAR fans too?


Much as I've enjoyed this little debate, I know that this is the wrong
place for this kind of discussion and so I'll leave it here. Thanks to
all who openly disagreed with me and those who said nothing but tacitly
agreed with me.

To Tom Watson- I do hope that you come to a satisfactory solution to your
checkering conundrum. I have a set of good carving chisels but I
certainly wouldn't take lightly the proposition of using them for the
task you describe. Hope it works out for you.


--
Liverpool. European City Of Culture 2008
http://www.liverpool08.com

Aardvark wrote:

I think that many Americans misinterpret your Second Amendment to mean
something it wasn't intended to mean. Perhaps members of official
'militias' are allowed to keep and bear arms, but it's a bit of a stretch
to insist that this right should extend to every member of the
population.

I think it is you doing the "misinterpreting". George Mason was one of
our founding fathers and played a large part in writing our "Bill of
Rights", our first ten amendments to our Constitution. In fact, he is
known as the "Father of the Bill of Rights".

George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few
public officials."

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
...
Aardvark wrote:

I think that many Americans misinterpret your Second Amendment to mean
something it wasn't intended to mean. Perhaps members of official
'militias' are allowed to keep and bear arms, but it's a bit of a stretch
to insist that this right should extend to every member of the
population.

I think it is you doing the "misinterpreting". George Mason was one of
our founding fathers and played a large part in writing our "Bill of
Rights", our first ten amendments to our Constitution. In fact, he is
known as the "Father of the Bill of Rights".

George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few
public officials."

Least we forget the US Supreme Court's ruling in Heller v District of
Columbia, decided June 26, 2008, which upheld the "standard interpretation"
of the Second Amendment as held by myriad Constitutional Scholars for many
years. In part:

Held:
1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm
unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally
lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
(a) The Amendments prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit
or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative
clauses text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right
to keep and bear arms.

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Seems there is a difference between the Citizens and Subjects involved in
this discussion. ;~)

John
....whom in a former life worked as an 18th century gunsmith, and in another
was involved in the gun regulation academic debate circles. ;~)

Aardvark wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:29:11 -0500, Tom Watson wrote:

I picked up the CZ yesterday and there is no way that I am competent to
replicate the grip checkering. I thought that it would have been much
simpler but it is not.

It is a beautiful and delicately proportioned piece and I'm confident
that the boy will be able to handle it well.

Had I owned a similar rifle at his age I would have never let it leave
my sight.

To Aardvark: I am sorry to disagree with you and I believe this to be a
cultural divide. Where and when I grew up it was a rite of passage for
a twelve year old boy to get a .22 rifle for his twelfth birthday, or
the Christmas preceding. My son will be twelve in February.


I have taught my two lads (10 and 14) marksmanship and weapon safety with
a .22 air rifle which is always kept under lock and key. If I'm not
there, the rifle stays locked away and I'll only let them use it under my
supervision. I certainly wouldn't dream of allowing either of them to
have a REAL firearm even if it were less difficult to acquire one easily.

As a lad I was fortunate enough to have always had firearms around and
learned to respect them and fear their potential. I'm from Northern
Ireland originally and my father was in a profession which gave him
access to a variety of smallarms, including fully automatic weapons. The
first handguns I ever fired on the local police range at the age of 13
were a Colt .45 Peacemaker and a WWII Luger 9mm Parabellum. I was pretty
pleased that I was able to hit a 'Figure 11' target at 25 metres with
every shot I fired from both weapons- one of the other lads who was on
the range only managed to hit the target once LOL.

We here in the United States of America consider the entire populace to
be the "...well regulated militia..." that is described in our
Constitution. As such, it is not merely our right but our duty to
transmit the knowledge and wisdom that goes along with gun ownership to
our progeny.


I think that many Americans misinterpret your Second Amendment to mean
something it wasn't intended to mean. Perhaps members of official
'militias' are allowed to keep and bear arms, but it's a bit of a stretch
to insist that this right should extend to every member of the
population.


That is no misinterpretation of the Constitution as Amended. If you read
the body of the Constitution you will find the OFFICIAL Militias
defined, their duties defined and the capability of the Federal
Government to nationalize them. There is also a prohibition of lodging
Federal troops in private housing.
The Second Amendment to the US Constitution means that the ordinary
citizens of the United States are ABSOLUTELY permitted possession of
fire arms. No government entity may prohibit that right.

You folks had a similar right secured as far back as 1689 but you seem
to have lost your way.


We're a bit more civilised now than we were in the days of King James.

We have a wonderful

Hmmmm.

organization called the National Rifle Association
that helps us to train our young people in the safe and effective use of
firearms.

Who took over when Chuck 'From my cold dead hand' Heston died?

They also lobby, very effectively, to keep our right to bear
arms as it was intended by the Founders of our country.


I would say 'vociferously misinterpret the Second Amendment', but who
says my opinion should amount to more than a pile of sheep ****?

It's difficult to think of any legitimate reason for anyone to keep a
firearm in their home. You may say that it's to protect your home against
intruders. I would say that if you were to shoot an intruder the fact
that you had a firearm in your home at all implies premeditation on your
part and therefore you should be prosecuted by the law in much the same
way as if you had walked into the street with a firearm and shot the
first person you came across.

I am happy to be a member and I am happy to say that my son is now also
a member.


NASCAR fans too?


Much as I've enjoyed this little debate, I know that this is the wrong
place for this kind of discussion and so I'll leave it here. Thanks to
all who openly disagreed with me and those who said nothing but tacitly
agreed with me.

To Tom Watson- I do hope that you come to a satisfactory solution to your
checkering conundrum. I have a set of good carving chisels but I
certainly wouldn't take lightly the proposition of using them for the
task you describe. Hope it works out for you.

Aardvark wrote:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:29:11 -0500, Tom Watson wrote:

I picked up the CZ yesterday and there is no way that I am competent to
replicate the grip checkering. I thought that it would have been much
simpler but it is not.

It is a beautiful and delicately proportioned piece and I'm confident
that the boy will be able to handle it well.

Had I owned a similar rifle at his age I would have never let it leave
my sight.

To Aardvark: I am sorry to disagree with you and I believe this to be a
cultural divide. Where and when I grew up it was a rite of passage for
a twelve year old boy to get a .22 rifle for his twelfth birthday, or
the Christmas preceding. My son will be twelve in February.


I have taught my two lads (10 and 14) marksmanship and weapon safety with
a .22 air rifle which is always kept under lock and key. If I'm not
there, the rifle stays locked away and I'll only let them use it under my
supervision. I certainly wouldn't dream of allowing either of them to
have a REAL firearm even if it were less difficult to acquire one easily.


Wow. Locked up air rifles; nanny state indeed


As a lad I was fortunate enough to have always had firearms around and
learned to respect them and fear their potential. I'm from Northern
Ireland originally and my father was in a profession which gave him
access to a variety of smallarms, including fully automatic weapons. The
first handguns I ever fired on the local police range at the age of 13
were a Colt .45 Peacemaker and a WWII Luger 9mm Parabellum. I was pretty
pleased that I was able to hit a 'Figure 11' target at 25 metres with
every shot I fired from both weapons- one of the other lads who was on
the range only managed to hit the target once LOL.


Yet you want to deny that enjoyment to others

We here in the United States of America consider the entire populace to
be the "...well regulated militia..." that is described in our
Constitution. As such, it is not merely our right but our duty to
transmit the knowledge and wisdom that goes along with gun ownership to
our progeny.


I think that many Americans misinterpret your Second Amendment to mean
something it wasn't intended to mean. Perhaps members of official
'militias' are allowed to keep and bear arms, but it's a bit of a stretch
to insist that this right should extend to every member of the
population.


Umm, nope. The founders were pretty clear. They wrote WE THE PEOPLE into
the preamble, and the second amendment very clearly states "the right of
the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms", not the "right of official militias" to
keep and bear arms. 'twould be a bit ridiculous to enshrine the right of
militias to be armed, wouldn't you think? Do you really think the
government would need to guarantee the right of the government to keep and
bear arms? No matter what permutations you place on that, it just doesn't
pass the reasonableness test that the ability of militias to be armed would
have to be specifically enumerated and not when the rest of the bill of
rights are affirmation of individual rights.


You folks had a similar right secured as far back as 1689 but you seem
to have lost your way.


We're a bit more civilised now than we were in the days of King James.


You stated in a previous post that you view GB as being more mature.

There's a big difference between maturity and senility.



We have a wonderful

Hmmmm.

organization called the National Rifle Association
that helps us to train our young people in the safe and effective use of
firearms.

Who took over when Chuck 'From my cold dead hand' Heston died?

They also lobby, very effectively, to keep our right to bear
arms as it was intended by the Founders of our country.


I would say 'vociferously misinterpret the Second Amendment', but who
says my opinion should amount to more than a pile of sheep ****?


Indeed. The misinterpretation is on the part of those who believe that
the government somehow had to guarantee the right of government entities to
be armed. The prolific writings of the founders leave no doubt as to the
intent of the second amendment. Even the intellectually honest anti-gun
people will say that and recognize that an amendment to repeal the right
would be the only correct means of changing that element of our bill of
rights.


It's difficult to think of any legitimate reason for anyone to keep a
firearm in their home. You may say that it's to protect your home against
intruders. I would say that if you were to shoot an intruder the fact
that you had a firearm in your home at all implies premeditation on your
part and therefore you should be prosecuted by the law in much the same
way as if you had walked into the street with a firearm and shot the
first person you came across.

Well, you certainly fit the model that your overlords want you to fit.
So, let's make this personal, if some thug breaks into *your* house, what
are you going to do? If, fearing for your life, you hit him with a
baseball bat, golf club, or lamp, would that fall under your idea of
pre-meditating harm to your assailant? I'm sure your argument will be that
those items are not weapons. So, let's say you use something more
effective like a knife, then does pre-meditation on your part then fall
into the equation? Especially since your reading this comment will make
you think about the possibility of such and event, you will thus have
thought through possible articles in your home with which you could defend
yourself.

Your previous paragraph has this whole aura of unbelievability about it.
Surely nobody can value the lives of themselves or their family so little
that they would rather be the victim of an intruder rather than defend
themselves. If they would defend themselves, then why not be able to do so
with the most effective tool available to them.





I am happy to be a member and I am happy to say that my son is now also
a member.


NASCAR fans too?


Much as I've enjoyed this little debate, I know that this is the wrong
place for this kind of discussion and so I'll leave it here. Thanks to
all who openly disagreed with me and those who said nothing but tacitly
agreed with me.

To Tom Watson- I do hope that you come to a satisfactory solution to your
checkering conundrum. I have a set of good carving chisels but I
certainly wouldn't take lightly the proposition of using them for the
task you describe. Hope it works out for you.



--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough

Tom,

Have you shot it yet????

cm
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
...
I've ordered a CZ Lux bolt action .22
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=3 for my eleven year old
for Christmas.

The specs and the reportage on this piece are excellent but it has one
funny elision. It is checkered on the grip but not on the forearm.

Well, you know, that just won't do.

I think that I have a decent read on how to go about this with the
carving tools that I have in hand but - I'm not a gunsmith. Does this
way madness lie?

I figured to lay it out and cut to the bevel on the layout lines - but
what do I know?

Do you guys have a clue as to how this is usually done?


tom


Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:58:58 GMT, Aardvark cast forth these pearls of
wisdom...:



I have taught my two lads (10 and 14) marksmanship and weapon safety with
a .22 air rifle which is always kept under lock and key. If I'm not
there, the rifle stays locked away and I'll only let them use it under my
supervision. I certainly wouldn't dream of allowing either of them to
have a REAL firearm even if it were less difficult to acquire one easily.



I think that many Americans misinterpret your Second Amendment to mean
something it wasn't intended to mean. Perhaps members of official
'militias' are allowed to keep and bear arms, but it's a bit of a stretch
to insist that this right should extend to every member of the
population.


I would say 'vociferously misinterpret the Second Amendment', but who
says my opinion should amount to more than a pile of sheep ****?

It's difficult to think of any legitimate reason for anyone to keep a
firearm in their home. You may say that it's to protect your home against
intruders. I would say that if you were to shoot an intruder the fact
that you had a firearm in your home at all implies premeditation on your
part and therefore you should be prosecuted by the law in much the same
way as if you had walked into the street with a firearm and shot the
first person you came across.


Well, everyone is has an opinion, and you are certainly entitled to yours.
Beyond that, you've contributed in this group in other threads that I
believe have established in a certain way. That said - with respect to
your opinions on guns, your opinions on the interpretation of the 2nd
ammendment, and your views in this thread in general, let me only say that
you succeeded in arousing more than one moment for me, where I felt like
responding in a less civil manner. Probably all the better you decided to
bail out of this thread at this point. At least it saves me giving way to
those expressions, and then saying "damn - I sure wish I hadn't said that,
that way...".



--

-Mike-

Tom Watson wrotesnip) We have a wonderful organization called the
National Rifle Association that helps us to train our young people in
the safe and effective use of firearms.#They also lobby, very
effectively, to keep our right to
bear arms as it was intended by the Founders of our country.
I am happy to be a member and I am happy to say that my son is now
also a member.

~~~~~
Amen brother, and please up-date us on how it shoots but also the look
on his face when he first lays eyes on it. Now that's priceless...

Ray,

On 9 Dec, 00:51, Tom Watson wrote:

I think that I have a decent read on how to go about this with the
carving tools that I have in hand but - I'm not a gunsmith. *Does this
way madness lie?

Obviously yes, for two reasons:

* You shouldn't go near a gunstock until you've run out of every
chairleg in the house. It's not rocket surgery, but nor is it tubafour
work. You need practice before even touching the real piece.

* It's not done with carving chisels, unless you're the secret heir of
Grinling Gibbons. Go to Brownells (et al) and buy a set of checkering
tools instead - they're more like tiny files than tiny chisels. Even
if you are an expert carver and will finish with chisels, you start
out with these to get your spacings right.


Other minor points:

Checkering needs good timber. You can make gunsticks in a factory out
of jummywood that just won't checker by hand. So make sure it's up to
the job first.

Practice checkering needs good timber. Only really nice carving timber
will cooperate to help you learn this: walnut, lime (linden), some
maples, European beech. Don't expect to learn anything by poking a
good tool at a bit of firewood, or even a furniture-grade piece of oak
or ash.

You're getting through a bunch of timber in practice. So start with
something big, thick and flat, and put it through the jointer after
each few attempts.

After you can do flat, try curves - but not before. Use paper patterns
and a pencil to practice your layout too. If you fancy a fun exercise,
turn a hyperbolic surface (like a power station cooling tower - make a
vase) and checker that. Then see how straight you kept those lines!
(kudos to those who know why this is relevant).

The cheap checkering tools are fine, but they're multi-cutter on an
exchangeable handle. You can forget that! Handles are cheap, get
enough to go round.


Otherwise go to it and enjoy yourself. But not on the first cut.

Yes, we shot it on Sunday.

Reds shot inch and a half groups with it at fifty feet, with a few
fliers.

I shot five rounds on the center bull and a dime would easily cover
it, so it shoots sweet.

We are shooting at a pistol range, rather than from a bench, so I have
to kneel to shoot and Reds has to spread is legs way too wide to have
a comfortable position.

That being said, the shooting is fun.

I want to get this little thing into a vise and see what MOA is about.




tom





On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 01:56:03 -0700, "cm" wrote:

Tom,

Have you shot it yet????

cm
"Tom Watson" wrote in message
.. .
I've ordered a CZ Lux bolt action .22
http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=3 for my eleven year old
for Christmas.

The specs and the reportage on this piece are excellent but it has one
funny elision. It is checkered on the grip but not on the forearm.

Well, you know, that just won't do.

I think that I have a decent read on how to go about this with the
carving tools that I have in hand but - I'm not a gunsmith. Does this
way madness lie?

I figured to lay it out and cut to the bevel on the layout lines - but
what do I know?

Do you guys have a clue as to how this is usually done?


tom


Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/

Regards,

Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/